Longstreet goes west in mid 1862

i am thinking of doing an atl where longstreet goes west around july or august 1862. my theory is that so unforseen element puts bragg out of comission in late july 1862. i'm not really sure about how to put bragg out of the picture, although im thinking something along the lines of an accident like his horse throwing him, a disgruntled solider shooting him, or perhaps a train wreck, but i was wondering how different the war in the west would be if longstreet had went west a year earlier than he did.

To me. longstreet would be the only option, since as johnston was dead, je johntson had been wounded in may, and i really don't think that jackson would have gone. Also, i dont see davis giving command to beaurguard (sorry, i have trouble spelling) since that would make davis admit that firing PTGB was a mistake in the first place, which i sure davis would not do. so i can use some help here detmining how longstreet would have come west and who would take his place in virginia?
 

TFSmith121

Banned
1 for 1 swap?

i am thinking of doing an atl where longstreet goes west around july or august 1862. my theory is that so unforseen element puts bragg out of comission in late july 1862. i'm not really sure about how to put bragg out of the picture, although im thinking something along the lines of an accident like his horse throwing him, a disgruntled solider shooting him, or perhaps a train wreck, but i was wondering how different the war in the west would be if longstreet had went west a year earlier than he did.

To me. longstreet would be the only option, since as johnston was dead, je johntson had been wounded in may, and i really don't think that jackson would have gone. Also, i dont see davis giving command to beaurguard (sorry, i have trouble spelling) since that would make davis admit that firing PTGB was a mistake in the first place, which i sure davis would not do. so i can use some help here detmining how longstreet would have come west and who would take his place in virginia?

Longstreet goes west after AS Johnston is killed and Beauregard is relieved; Bragg comes east to serve as a corps commander in the ANV under Lee, who replaces GW Smith after JE Johnston is wounded.

Hilarity ensues with Bragg and Jackson as peers...

Best,
 

Redhand

Banned
Longstreet may have had an astute knowledge of defensive warfare but the issues he had with his peers was just as bad as Bragg in some cases.

Also, in terms of independent command, he was decidedly unexceptional. He was essentially wasting time around Suffolk in early 1863, accomplishing almost nothing, and he was somehow outfought by BURNSIDE around Knoxville later on. My guess is that he performs essentially like Johnston and doesn't take things up into Kentucky, which probably has Rosecrans near Chattanooga a lot earlier, but not able to make much progress. Eventually he would be relieved by someone more aggressive.
 
Longstreet may have had an astute knowledge of defensive warfare but the issues he had with his peers was just as bad as Bragg in some cases.

Also, in terms of independent command, he was decidedly unexceptional. He was essentially wasting time around Suffolk in early 1863, accomplishing almost nothing, and he was somehow outfought by BURNSIDE around Knoxville later on. My guess is that he performs essentially like Johnston and doesn't take things up into Kentucky, which probably has Rosecrans near Chattanooga a lot earlier, but not able to make much progress. Eventually he would be relieved by someone more aggressive.

Suffolk[edit]

In the early spring of 1863, Longstreet suggested to Lee that his corps be detached from the Army of Northern Virginia and sent to reinforce the Army of Tennessee, where Gen. Braxton Bragg was being challenged in Middle Tennessee by Union Maj. Gen. William S. Rosecrans, Longstreet's roommate at West Point. It is possible that Longstreet believed that an independent command in the West offered better opportunities for advancement than a corps under Lee's shadow.[28] Lee did detach two divisions from the First Corps, but ordered them to Richmond, not Tennessee. Seaborne movements of the Union IX Corps potentially threatened vital ports on the mid-Atlantic coast. The division of George Pickett started for the capital in mid-February, was followed by John Hood's, and then Longstreet himself was told to take command of the detached divisions and the Departments of North Carolina and Southern Virginia.[29]
In April, Longstreet besieged Union forces in the city of Suffolk, Virginia, a minor operation, but one that was very important to Lee's army, still stationed in war-devastated central Virginia. It enabled Confederate authorities to collect huge amounts of provisions that had been under Union control. However, this operation caused Longstreet and 15,000 men of the First Corps to be absent from the Battle of Chancellorsville in May. Despite Lee's brilliant victory at Chancellorsville, Longstreet once again came under criticism, claiming that he could have marched his men back from Suffolk in time to join Lee.[30] However, from the Chancellorsville and Suffolk scenario, Longstreet brought forward the beginnings of a new Confederate strategy. These events proved that the Army of Northern Virginia could manage with fewer troops for periods of time, and units could be shifted to create windows of opportunity in other theaters. Longstreet advocated the first strategic movements to utilize rail, interior lines, and create temporary numerical advantages in Mississippi or Tennessee prior to Gettysburg.[31


Longstreet in my veiw was a very good general that like all other generals, had his flaws. i understand that he messed up in tennesse in late 1863, but i'm not worry about that. i want to put longstreet in the west in 1862, not 1863. i figure that by having him in the west in 62 instead of 63, he would be able to come into his own away from having to live under lee's shadow. besides, this is an atl i thinking on doing, so, i can play around with this any way i choose, providing of course, that i try to keep it historically possible.

I am thinking that perhaps i might start with a bloodier battle of shiloh in which part of van dorn's army does so up, but only gets chewed up by a federal counterattack led by buell and grant. With a bigger loss of life than in otl, lets say that davis has no choice but to pull troops from virginia to reinforce the rebel army that licks its wounds in cornith.

So lets say that longstreet and his division gets shipped to cornith to beef up troop numbers and lets have halleck decide to launch an all out attack on cornith's fortifications (thinking that the rebels do not have the strength that they actually have) failing badly, and let longstreet be the one that repels the assualt and recieve the glory of giving the rebels a hard earned victory in the west and latter have ptgb replaced and longstreet put in charge. Also, in order to remove bragg, lets have him get wounded at shiloh, thus pavng the way for longstreet to assume command. what do you think? plausable? please comment. also, the suffolk info came from wikipedia, here is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Longstreet#Suffolk


 
Well, the thing is, Polk, Hardee and Kirby Smith would be in line for the army command before Longstreet.

Kirby Smith had exactly the same level of seniority that Longstreet did but had been in independent command throughout 1862 whereas Longstreet had been Johnston and Lee's subordinate. Hardee and Polk were less senior by one day but had the advantage of being with the army when the command position became available.
 
Hard to bring about but possible, the main problem which is a titanic problem of epic proportions is that the Confederate Western Command is a gross mismatched and horrible cobble of Politics trying to interfere and intermingle with Military Affairs to the point of Obsession.

The Entire Command from the commanding General to many officers where all political officers who were put their to assure and passive State Offices, and thus to get Longstreet out West in Mid 1862 in the Scenario of Bragg out of commission our dead would require a lot of Political maneuvering at the local, state and government level.

Since many officers in the Army Of Tennessee who have deep political connections would make placing Longstreet in command of said army be problematic to say the least, not to mention the situation on the ground in the East.

Which in your time frame would put the AONV right before or on the eve of the second battle of bull run i believe.

So to pull, of the command structure in the West would have to be decimated to a heavy point which would warrant Lee's War Horse to be transferred to the West in such a time either to take command of the Army Of Tennessee or form a separate command.
 
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