Longest Possible WWII

B-29_Bomber

Banned
How long can you make WWII last without a Anglo-American/Nazi War style truce?

Both fronts, European/North African and Pacific/Asian, must end within months of each other like OTL and the Allies must still win.
 
You could delay the war in Europe I suppose with a weaker D-Day, better Ardennes offensive, or the soviets bungling somehow in Poland.

Combine that with downfall-an invasion of the Japanese home island with the highest casualty estimates and heavy partisan warfare.

The Nazis fortify the major cities, rivers, and dig in like mad men.

Maybe even that alpine redoubt gets put into place.

Perhaps the conquest of Italy takes longer-maybe the Allies have to deal with communist partisans in the social republics

Nazis fight for every inch of Paris

Just about every idea I have thrown around will probably prolong the war another six months to a year.

What about werewolf activity? Is that allowed as a continuation?
 
You need to have the storm that hit the Normandy beach hit 2 weeks early during the invasion or even more severe and destroy both Mulberries. Hitler doesn't try to fortify in Russia and saves Army Group Center. Trinity doesn't work.
 

Deleted member 1487

Barbarossa is more successful than IOTL, but the Soviets don't collapse, instead lingering on into 1942; the US demands and early invasion of France by late 1942 to save Stalin and keep him in the war, only for that to go badly. The Soviets implode slowly, but keep enough Germany strength off the Wallies as to keep them in the war, hopeful they could still win if they fight on. As the war goes on they did eventually successfully invade Europe, but later than IOTL and at much greater cost, having to push the Nazis back into Eastern Europe where they evacuate population and industry to keep the war going before eventually collapsing. That could go on a while.
 
- Better planned Barbarossa. Germans are more succesful in USSR but Soviets still can push Germans back altough much slower.
- Japan delays Pearl Harbor and USA enters to WW2 later.
- Rommel is more succesful in North Africa but Allies still expel Afrikorps.
- Failed Normandy.
- Landing to Italy is more difficult as in OTL.

So in Europe war might last to January '46.

And Japan not surrend to nuclear bombs on September '45 and USA launch Operation Downfall. It cause much damage for Japan and it surrends on Spring '46.
 
having to push the Nazis back into Eastern Europe where they evacuate population and industry to keep the war going before eventually collapsing.
Could the Reich actually pull this off and how difficult would defeating the Heer/Waffen SS in Eastern Europe be?
 
You could have FDR lose the election in 1940 to a strict isolationist. That would probably do the trick.

Wouldn't isolationist USA ratherly help Axis than allow total victory for Allies? Just let FDR win election but not let Japaneses attack to PH or at least hit happens later.
 

Wallet

Banned
The Nazis take Dunkirk and all the thousands of British troops. They also bomb only the British airfields basically forcing an unofficial ceasefire. This after taking Gibraltar, Malta, and the Middle East. The Nazis invade the Soviet Union, take Moscow, and reach the A-A line. Stalin survives and with heavy US lend lease hold the front. The British also receive massive amounts of lend lease from the US, allowing them to stay in the war. This greatly annoys Hitler that he can't end the war.

The Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor and invade the European colonies. Hitler declares war on the US, hoping the Japanese will invade Siberia. They don't but it's now a truly global war. The US takes the pacific islands to end any danger to Hawaii and Australia, but switches focus towards Europe. The WAllies invade Africa starting in Morrocco while also invading German allied Iraq from Iran.

The Nazis bust out the chemical weapons to end the stakement on the eastern front, which kills Stalin. The Soviets surrender and Hitker moves the entire German army to France. The US drops 8 atomic bomb on Europe. 3 on Normandy to clear the beaches, and one on Berlin, Rome, Nuremberg, and two other German cities.

Regardless, D-Day still occurs. The fighting is brutal. In OTL, 90% of the German army was fighting in Russia. The US continues to produce and drop atomic bombs on German troops. Eventually Europe is a wasteland and the allies march into the ruins of Berlin. Germany allies surrender. The Soviets, with massive lend lease, rejoin the war and rage across Poland killing every single German.

After that, the WAllies go back towards Japan. Having an extra few years while the allies ignored them, they prepared. A coup removed the emperor. The US drops several bonbs on the Japanese and uses chemical weapons. This with the firebombing and blockade depopulats Japan. The US invades and fights waves and waves of suicide bombers.

The war finally ends in 1951. Afterwards, thousands of US soldiers get cancer in the decades to come from the radiation exposure
 
You could have Germans win in the East, go as far as Ural, and do so with sane policies that would result in conquered USSR being net gain rather than net drain in resources and manpower - quick trials of Communist party members, puppet states that mostly occupying themselves. Murdering entire nations is expensive. Nazis can still kill Jews, Gypsies and Gays relatively easily (if you're worried my scenario would make them uncharacteristically nice), since those were minorities that could be herded off with silent approval of local populations.

Consider delayed German-American war, so it's FDR who has to declare on Germans who hadn't done anything to US yet.
It'll be harder for FDR to justify war against Germany, after American journalists return from occupied USSR with tales of Germans uncovering mass graves everywhere.
"Why do we have to avenge godless mass-murdering Bolsheviks?"
FDR will find a reason to declare war anyway, but USA would be divided, there would be strong lobby to defeat Japan first, and once Japan is defeated, another lobby to make peace with Germans in exchange for ending occupation of western Europe.

IF Yankees go for it, there is gonna long, sluggish advance to Berlin, and stalemates would have to broken with nukes.
 
Some ideas - well idea dumps

Have a situation where Britain is isolationist and slower to react to the threat of Nazism / or indifferent to it for a number of reasons

Or France goes far right at some point in the 30s and is not seen as an enemy to Hitlers Germany? Unlikely for Britain to be able to intervene on the continent without France

Hitler dies through natural causes or foul play mid war and 'eventually' a more competent leadership emerges

Stalin is deposed after the initial failures of the Red Army in 1941 and following better leadership of the Red army and heavier losses for the Germans ie they are defeated at Sevastopol ??? - a truce is made on the eastern front - the truce is frequently broken and eventually leads to continued conflict.

Japan attacks Russia in the East in 1941 instead of attacking the USA - removing the Cassus Belli of Pearl Harbour - this delays the US Entry into WW2
 
In the Pacific War: Kyujo incident succeeds, leading to Downfall occuring and Japan being turned into an anarchic mess.
 
Hmmm.
1. Have the UK/France not guarantee Polish independence.
2. Have war against France start in 1940 and go pretty much as historically.
3. Attempt to evacuate from French coast goes horribly; 35,000 evacuated, scores of RAF fighters lost and a dozen destroyers. 200,000 UK and 100,000 French troops captured.
3. Britain agrees to armistice to deal with other matters; rumblings in India, Italian aggression in East Africa, Turks [Mosul and Cyprus], Spain [Gibraltar], Japan et cetera.
4. Turks join Axis. French fleet surrenders to Germany.
5. Stalin dies under mysterious circumstances. USSR experiences "interesting times".
6. Germans invade USSR in 1941. No Lend-Lease, no Western front or bomber war. The Japanese and (to a far lesser degree) the Turks join in. Things go badly for Soviets but it's a big country.
7. Britain steps up rearmament ready for WW2.5, quiet discussions with USA.
8. Eastern Front becomes bloody quagmire (no change there) but Germans advance far further, capturing Moscow et cetera.
9. Desperate Soviets deploy biological weapons, Tularemia, Q-Fever, Typhus, Plague. Hitler authorises retaliation with chemical agents. Many observers surprised by the effectiveness of Tabun (other nerve agents aren't available in quantity). Soviet transport hubs are drenched in mustards.
10. Widespread condemnation of CBW, "they did it first". Frantic UK and US research into organophosphates.
11. Joint US/UK nuclear weapons project starts but delayed compared to OTL and less resourced (US not at war). Much interest in anthrax and other CBW agents diverts resources. US begins military expansion but on a smaller scale than OTL.
12. It's now mid-1943 and chunks of Eastern Europe are decidedly nasty places to visit. Japan demands that the UK and US stop supplying arms to Nationalist China. When the UK doesn't comply they launch small-scale raids into Burma to destroy supplies and demand the right to inspect cargoes in Hong Kong. UK deployed reinforcements to the Pacific.
13. US issues warning to Japan, implements trade embargo. While Japan has access to oil from the DEI (a German "protectorate") the fighting in the USSR and China is a drain.
14. Anglo-Japanese naval battle in Pacific. British, American, Japanese declarations of war (well the US doesn't declare war on the UK). Germany joins in. WW2.5 is on.
15. US massively expands it's armed forces, but this will take time. More funds to Manhattan Project. Germany establishes bases in Canary Islands, in Iceland and Greenland. US begins Lend-Lease supply on a large scale.
16. German expansion into USSR slows as RAF raids begin. Luftwaffe responds. There is an unofficial agreement not to use CBW agents.
17. Fighting in Pacific and in peripheral theatres. Allied landings in North Africa. Naval battles in Atlantic as the Suez Canal route is effectively closed and UK food imports switch. US forces land in Greenland, with heavy casualties amongst the green troops. Iceland next. Carrier raids on Canaries.
18. It's now early 1945. The atomic bomb is three years away at best, mass produced anthrax is closer. The Japanese are being slowly pushed back (Midway analogue was a disaster for the US). Germans realise their codes are being broken, encryption greatly improved. Ultra negated. The Germans are almost at the Urals but their loses are not sustainable and their minor allies are balking at the cost.
19. The US want a cross-channel invasion in 1946 but they are persuaded by the disastrous invasion of Iceland that this isn't possible. Germans reinforce Atlantic wall defenses. Rocket bombs begin falling on UK, without chemical warheads. Yet. Much fighting in North Africa, naval clashes in Med.
20. Large US build up in the UK for the invasion of Europe. Also large losses from submarines in North Atlantic. USAAF begins mass bombing of German cities, taking huge casualties. Germans respond with submarine launched rocket bombs against US East coast. FDR dies (heart attack), Truman succeeds to presidency.
21. Allies advance, slowly, in the Pacific. Japan uses biological weapons against Hawaii. US forces employ chemical agents to soften island defenses.
22. 1947 dawns. The invasion of Europe is planned for June (weather) but the Allies don't have air supremacy (better German production, less need for aircraft in East et cetera). Fears of chemical agents being employed against invasion beaches. Manhattan project experiences new problem; Xenon poisoning of pile.
23. By April the Allies realise that the invasion will have to be postponed or face disaster. Given the success in North Africa there are suggestions of a landing in Southern France. The Germans don't know this and maintain heavy forces in the west, reducing their capability in the east. Hitler assassinated (look it had to happen sometime).
24. Allies refuse German peace feelers, slowly grind down Luftwaffe. Overlord in 1948, with both sides using poison gas. Slow advance across Europe.
25. 1949 dawns. Atomic bomb tested (it works) in June. Series production ordered to build up a stockpile. By November sixteen weapons are ready along with the aircraft to deliver them. Blitz against the nearer German cites and operational centres with a dozen bombs. Surrender demand. German retaliation with rockets carrying two-tonne Soman warheads (including against US coast). Further nuclear bombs used. Regime change and the formal German surrender in early 1940. More than a hundred million are dead (and that doesn't include the camps). Japan next.
 
*Muller stays at Junkers and HeS 30 is built in quantity
*He177 produced in quantity as Germany goes to 24 hour production in 1939
*He280 lined up for production as France falls, Germany takes French navy and long-range bomber designs. Pe133 design merged with He177 and French designs to make He177B four engine bomber
*UK mission to US with Tizzard sunk by submarines
*US more isolationist
*Final Soviet Russian purge includes Chuikov and Zhukov
*Germany targets Home Chain while Italy targets Suez, takes Malta, and shells/bombs Gibraltar
*Germany unifies and streamlines it's R&D efforts in mid-1940
*Germany and Japan exchange significant technology (long lance torpedoes and faster submarines for high-end engines and improved production techniques, etc)
*G.55 Centauro mated to BMW engine in late 1940 instead of later - Italy has excellent fighter early in the war
*Combined Franco-Italian fleet takes Gibraltar, Suez, and opens naval access to Atlantic in late 1940
 

Greenville

Banned
The United States remains completely out of the war. The Soviets roll into Berlin during 1946 and defeat Germany. They also defeat Italty and remove the regime in Spain during 1947. Or no atomic bomb causes a bloody invasion of mainland Japan which doesn't end the war until 1947.
 
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FBKampfer

Banned
Easiest and most plausible is probably to have the Germans stall our before they reach Stalingrad. Ironically better Soviet performance in one offensive could have prolonged the entire war.

Say the Germans stall out on the Don River. It's unlikely the front would have turned into a meat grinder like Stalingrad. Herresgruppe A doesn't get mauled, Herresgruppe B doesn't overextend and deplete itself trying to reach the Caucuses. Everywhere else isn't stripped of their Panzers to put together a relief force for 6. Armee, the Luftwaffe isn't ground down quite so bad, and there isn't a giant exposed flank to tear into.

This butterflys away Kharkov and Kursk in all probability, perhaps any major offensive in 1943. Improved situation on the Ostfront, reduced losses, and lack of need for troop concentration allows more troops to be transferred to Italy, slowing Allied progress.

Slower progress in Italy likely causes the Allies to be more cautious in DDay, if it's not postponed entirely.

Perhaps AGS and AGC don't collapse.

Overall, I'd say this pushes the war out to spring of 46 if not later.
 
- Failed Normandy.
Failed Normandy so the reconquest of Western Europe either has to start from the South of France or use Italy as the starting point. With a failed D Day the landings in the South of France are canceled and Italy remains the Anglo Americans only front. The Germans are able to shift resources back to the Eastern Front slowing the Soviet offensive. The western allies are able to push the Germans back to the alps in Italy by winter but can only push out into Austria in the Spring of 45 at the same time as a renewed attempt to cross the channel is made the war in Europe drags on until Jan 46.

The Manhattan Project suffers a number of technical setbacks and makes some theoretical mistakes that delays the construction of the Bomb enough that the planned invasion of Japan takes place with the final surrender of the remaining Japanese forces taking place in June 1946 when the Emperor is captured trying to flee to Formosa.
 

Zachariah

Banned
Does this include the Second Sino-Japanese War as a theater of WW2? Because if it did, you could extend the war's duration by a lot. That way, you'd have a WW2 which officially kicked off in July 1937, and which lasted that much longer. Indeed, one could even turn the Chinese Civil War into an extension or continuation of WW2- especially if Sun Yat-sen and Chiang Kai-Shek were deemed to be puppets of the Japanese, and/or perceived to be aligned with the Japanese and the Axis (say, if Zhang Xueliang had failed to take Chiang hostage on behalf of the CPC during the Xi'an Incident in 1937, and Chiang hadn't been forced to agree to an alliance with them in the total war against the Japanese). Say, in a Communist-centric analysis of WW2, written in an ATL in which the Soviets and the Communists emerged as the triumphant victors, WW2 ITTL could well be classified as having begun 1933 with Chiang Kai-Shek's Nazi German-aided Encirclement Campaigns, and continuing all the way into the early '50s, when TTL's Chinese Civil War finally comes to an end.
 
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