Long live the Poglovnik!

Hellooooooooooo :)

What would be the effects of a long term, surviving Ustasha Hrvatska (Croatia)? Hitler liked Ustasha as much as he liked the Iron Guard in Romania (which was a lot). The rest of the German Wehrmacht...not so much, but Hitler personally intervened to keep the Army on side in Croatia. Anton Pavelic was pretty extreme, but perhaps another figure could be found to steer Ustasha to a somewhat less fanatical standpoint.
 
You know, i think Croatia actually has a better chance of surviving if Hitler doesnt like them. So instead of being homicidal fascist collaborators they are suddenly turned into heroic homicidal freedom fighters, giving them international credibility. Except for the problem of even more partisans running around everywhere.
 
Perhaps in the interwar period, Croatia's displeasure at being Serbia's bitch takes a nasty turn and there are Hrvatski guerillas fighting the Serb army. Things proceed pretty much OTL, and Croatia ends up being established as an integral German ally. *Pavelic and Ustasha reach back to the greatness of the Hasburg days, which was still in living memory for most Croats. There is still nastiness to Serbs, but on a more muted scale.

*The Wehrmacht officer in charge of the military mission to Zagreb essentially told Pavelic this much. Since the Croats made up about 1/3 of the population, they would have to be more inclusive.
 
Perhaps in the interwar period, Croatia's displeasure at being Serbia's bitch takes a nasty turn and there are Hrvatski guerillas fighting the Serb army. Things proceed pretty much OTL, and Croatia ends up being established as an integral German ally. *Pavelic and Ustasha reach back to the greatness of the Hasburg days, which was still in living memory for most Croats. There is still nastiness to Serbs, but on a more muted scale.

*The Wehrmacht officer in charge of the military mission to Zagreb essentially told Pavelic this much. Since the Croats made up about 1/3 of the population, they would have to be more inclusive.
Great except that it leads to problem two. Namely the very angry Yugoslavs, Serbs and their Russian allies. So if your going to have an even more anti-Yugoslav Croatia (at least thats what im reading it as, correct me if im wrong) your going to have a lot more dead Croats post war. Maybe if the allies do a lot better and the Sovs a bit worse then they can reach Croatia and install their own western puppet government.

Which leads to a bit more interesting cold war. If Croatia is west, Serbia will be defenatly pro Soviet after the war, maybe even a Bosnian Wall.
 
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Cook

Banned
Are you asking how you could have an independent Croatia survive WW2 and what the effects of that would be or specifically an Ustasha controlled Croatia?

The former seems unlikely and the latter totally impossible. The Ustasha were tarred with the collaborationist brush, no nation was going to tolerate them surviving.
 

Cook

Banned
Ok, I see now.
The changes you are proposing are so large an Independent Fascist Croatia is only a small part of it.
Is that correct?
 
My interest lies more in Fascist Croatia post German victory or at least stalemate, w/Russia staying out of Eastern Europe.
Thats sounds like something that would be a bit handy to know in the OP wouldent it? ;)

Anyways short answer, Serbs are fucked. On the bright side those Slovenians might get their own state (or you know just annexed into Germany using the Austrian Empire as its reason). But still... poor Serbs, if Germany reestablishes Serbia as an actual nation instead of keeping it under direct rule i can see Croatia invading soon after Germany pulls out. I doubt there will be any Serbs left in Croatia in this tl. Muslims might try to get their own nation considering the opposition Croats had to the Scimitar Division (sorry i forgot the real name of it!), but they will end up like how Serbs will end up.

In the three way cold war it could provide an interesting sticking point between Germany and supposed ally Italy. Italy most likely sees the Balkans as its sphere and the King of Croats is an Italian. On the other hand Croats really want that coast that Italy is keeping and Germany may or may not want to keep the Croats as their puppets instead of Italy's.
 
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As opposed to the rest of Europe if Nazi Germany won or survived?
Hey i said short didnt i! I would have ran out of space if i had to mention every nationality/ethnicity. Anyways its not like a person would chose to be a Serb in Ustasha Croatia rather than say Denmark or Netherlands (just two random examples, feel free to correct me).
 
@Komeyta:

Germany had plans for Serbia during and after the war, so I don't see Croatia being given permission to meddle, nor would they really want to, I think. They would have their hands full w/Bosnia, etc.

Handschar was the name of the Bosniak SS Division raised during WWII; if I remember correctly, the Croats didn't have an issue w/the Muslims or the volksdeutsche, it was the Serbs they hated. The real issue was Ustashe took offence to the SS raising troops from within their borders (same thing happened in Hungary - Horthy was pissed when SS raised Florian Geyer).
 
@Komeyta:

Germany had plans for Serbia during and after the war, so I don't see Croatia being given permission to meddle, nor would they really want to, I think. They would have their hands full w/Bosnia, etc.

Handschar was the name of the Bosniak SS Division raised during WWII; if I remember correctly, the Croats didn't have an issue w/the Muslims or the volksdeutsche, it was the Serbs they hated. The real issue was Ustashe took offence to the SS raising troops from within their borders (same thing happened in Hungary - Horthy was pissed when SS raised Florian Geyer).

Right i knew it started with an 'H'! Funny how im terrible with SS units, i tend to call Florian Geyer, the Maria Theresa division or the horsies divisions for example.

Anyways back on topic, im pretty sure i read that the Ustashe had some problem with Scimitar. A pure Bosniak/Muslim military unit was not in their plan, or maybe its for the reason you stated. I dont have time to vist wiki or anyother site right now so ill take your word on it.

I wasn’t disagreeing mate, I just missed putting in the ;) at the end of my sentence.
Damn smilie didn't pop up.
:)
Sorry my bad. Haha.
 
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