Long Live Sacred Germany: The Oster Conspiracy | Alternate Timeline

Should I continue and develop this into a full timeline?


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I do wonder how the Soviet Union exists tho. Must have gone through a China-like process, cause traditional communist economy is simply doomed to fail.
 
I do wonder how the Soviet Union exists tho. Must have gone through a China-like process, cause traditional communist economy is simply doomed to fail.
Not exactly, but I can't unfortunately reveal much more since it will spoil some twists.

Also the Soviet Union's continued existence isn't the only bit of info/foreshadowing in that screenshot...
 
Thanks!
I hope the monarchy is restored after the Coup

I understand it is a long shot though
Unfortunately the monarchy will not be restored.
I have much anticipation of this story. There are numerous possibilities, all probable the same, but with wastly different outcome.
I hope I can deliver. The path I've decided on is going to be quite unexpected I believe but I'm not sure if the twist will be welcome or not...
Here we go!
Indeed!
An alternate WW2 happens, along with a Pacific War that has no relation with the WW2 of this timeline...
Interesting.
I wonder about what changes can occur regarding Turkey.
And who fights against who in this timeline's WW2?
To be honest I have not 100% worked out what WWII will look like. I am focussed on the German Civil War that's about to erupt and the next few chapters will all probably be on that. The post-Civil War situation I am less certain about especially events in 1940 before the WWII that I am planning will start in 1941. (Subject to change)
How and why world war II still happens is the question
Well WWII was always going to happen Nazi Germany or no Nazi Germany, just different reasons and situations. For centuries every few decades there has been a major Europe-wide war, the Nazis were evil yes but the British and French are also expansionist genocidal empires, the USSR is a destabilising force, etc.
Churchill gets listening ears when he starts raving about how Unthinkable Operation should be Imperative Operation.
It truly will be a Great Patriotic War.
 
Well WWII was always going to happen Nazi Germany or no Nazi Germany, just different reasons and situations. For centuries every few decades there has been a major Europe-wide war, the Nazis were evil yes but the British and French are also expansionist genocidal empires, the USSR is a destabilising force, etc.
Strongly disagree. The British and the French were certainly empires, but they were not expansionist any more by the 30s, and they had no desire for a war in Europe whatsoever. The appeasement policy reflected that. Stalin was way too cautious to start a war on his own, especially if it could end up with Europe arrayed against him.

Unlike WW1 where war was seen as acceptable or even desirable by all the Great Powers, Nazi Germany was the main cause of WW2 and without them and a Germany that already had their fill of war killing each other, there's little reason to be certain another big war is coming.
 
Strongly disagree. The British and the French were certainly empires, but they were not expansionist any more by the 30s, and they had no desire for a war in Europe whatsoever. The appeasement policy reflected that. Stalin was way too cautious to start a war on his own, especially if it could end up with Europe arrayed against him.

Unlike WW1 where war was seen as acceptable or even desirable by all the Great Powers, Nazi Germany was the main cause of WW2 and without them and a Germany that already had their fill of war killing each other, there's little reason to be certain another big war is coming.
This. In fact, opinions before WWI were divided among leadership, and the general populations of the great powers understood that a modern war would be a calamity.

Unfortunately the monarchy will not be restored.
Agreed with this. The monarchy was a defunct institution in the eyes of the German people. They were fine with one, but once it was gone they were also fine with that.
 
Strongly disagree. The British and the French were certainly empires, but they were not expansionist any more by the 30s, and they had no desire for a war in Europe whatsoever. The appeasement policy reflected that. Stalin was way too cautious to start a war on his own, especially if it could end up with Europe arrayed against him.

Unlike WW1 where war was seen as acceptable or even desirable by all the Great Powers, Nazi Germany was the main cause of WW2 and without them and a Germany that already had their fill of war killing each other, there's little reason to be certain another big war is coming.
I did not mean to insinuate that responsibility would necessarily be on the mentioned nations. However, I struggle to see a world without a second Great War, obviously not in similar circumstances to OTL without Nazi Germany. There would be more world wars after that also were it not for nukes and MAD.

The immediate post-WWI period only had the aura of 'never again' due to war fatigue. Every great European War had the 'never again' immediately after before the powers went in for another round.

I also really don't understand the idea of 'people experienced war so won't do it again' when in the last eight decades since WWII we've had tens of millions perish to conflict and war has been consistent and destructive for all of human history.
 
I did not mean to insinuate that responsibility would necessarily be on the mentioned nations. However, I struggle to see a world without a second Great War, obviously not in similar circumstances to OTL without Nazi Germany. There would be more world wars after that also were it not for nukes and MAD.

The immediate post-WWI period only had the aura of 'never again' due to war fatigue. Every great European War had the 'never again' immediately after before the powers went in for another round.

I also really don't understand the idea of 'people experienced war so won't do it again' when in the last eight decades since WWII we've had tens of millions perish to conflict and war has been consistent and destructive for all of human history.
Firstly, I don't think that the generalization that there was always a war right after a major one, at least not in the timeframes we're talking about here. The Congress of Europe lasted several generations, for example, so there's no reason to think the post-WW1 order couldn't last more than 20 years.

Secondly, I disagree on using such generalizations to get to the conclusion of another war, when we have a more reliable way of getting conclusions in the attitude of the nations during that period OTL. France and Britain didn't want another war, Germany will probably be in no state to fight one, and Stalin would not dare do anything that could land him with France, Britain and Germany united against him. And while I could definitely see a couple minor wars being fought, it's really hard to get to something that could rightfully be called a "World War".
 
Firstly, I don't think that the generalization that there was always a war right after a major one, at least not in the timeframes we're talking about here. The Congress of Europe lasted several generations, for example, so there's no reason to think the post-WW1 order couldn't last more than 20 years.

Secondly, I disagree on using such generalizations to get to the conclusion of another war, when we have a more reliable way of getting conclusions in the attitude of the nations during that period OTL. France and Britain didn't want another war, Germany will probably be in no state to fight one, and Stalin would not dare do anything that could land him with France, Britain and Germany united against him. And while I could definitely see a couple minor wars being fought, it's really hard to get to something that could rightfully be called a "World War".
You do make good points, I can't really argue with them. I will absolutely accept feedback and will revise the TL as necessary when we get to the post-Hitler order ITTL. If WWII ends up being scrapped, I'll just retroactively edit the ITTL AH.com discussion to match.

As to something that could be called a world war, is a little more debatable. For us WWII was so massive we can't imagine smaller conflicts being called a world war but from ITTL perspective this is not true, for example consider that OTL WWII was called WWII even when only the UK, France, Poland and Germany were involved, and there was little fighting outside of Poland. OTOH that classification was probably more due to the combatants being the same major ones of WWI.
 
Churchill gets listening ears when he starts raving about how Unthinkable Operation should be Imperative Operation.
Churchill wanted to make the Operation Unthinkable only after Germany got taken down. Prior to that, he had been whitewashing the soviet crimes and praising the Soviets as useful allies against Germany. He actually despised in 1938 that the independent polish state makes it unable for the Soviets to charge at Germany, and once the Soviets invaded Poland in 1939, he claimed that it was justified, still hoping that the Soviets are about to fight Germany very soon. Huh, turned out that not so soon, because the USSR spent the next two years on supplying the III Reich with the natural resources from numerous trade agreements between Germany and USSR.

Long story short, prior to ww2 the western allies were staunchly against Germany, but at the same time they were too lazy to make some move on their own and preferred the other ones to do the actual job. Meanwhile all they had to do, was to actually make some move on their own. Plus, on 26 May 1938 the polish ambassador in France, Julian Łukasiewicz, passed to the french government the message from Józef Beck that in case of the franco-german war Poland will honour the franco-polish alliance.

If Germany overthrows Hitler but simultaneously keeps being a great power, then Britain will most likely decide to keep the good relations with the Soviet Union "just in case".
 
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Part One | Chapter II


September 30th, 1938
...
He spat as he walked out, sparing one last angry glance at Luther’s frame before the door was shut in his face.
...
There was a discussion on some question of 'style'.

Regardless how 'easy-going' the trope of the brutalized, uncivilized, unruly and generally misbehavioring, dumb crétin of every german in whatever way related to some Nazi organisation might be and 'pleasure' many with their prejudice' served ...
NOWHERE would a family member of educated bourgeoisie offspring - as we have to assume with one being even head of a police department - EVER spit on the floor or carpet within a flat.​
Sry to say: this 'tastes like rather cheap sensationalism you - IMHO - don't need and should avoid.
 
There was a discussion on some question of 'style'.

Regardless how 'easy-going' the trope of the brutalized, uncivilized, unruly and generally misbehavioring, dumb crétin of every german in whatever way related to some Nazi organisation might be and 'pleasure' many with their prejudice' served ...
NOWHERE would a family member of educated bourgeoisie offspring - as we have to assume with one being even head of a police department - EVER spit on the floor or carpet within a flat.​
Sry to say: this 'tastes like rather cheap sensationalism you - IMHO - don't need and should avoid.
He spat outside.
 
There was a discussion on some question of 'style'.

Regardless how 'easy-going' the trope of the brutalized, uncivilized, unruly and generally misbehavioring, dumb crétin of every german in whatever way related to some Nazi organisation might be and 'pleasure' many with their prejudice' served ...
NOWHERE would a family member of educated bourgeoisie offspring - as we have to assume with one being even head of a police department - EVER spit on the floor or carpet within a flat.​
Sry to say: this 'tastes like rather cheap sensationalism you - IMHO - don't need and should avoid.
He spat outside and his cousin is just a police officer not the head of anything. They're middle class at most.

Edit: Also dude isn't meant to stand in for the Nazis he's a young man caught in hype. Tragic story if anything.
 
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TOC: Part One | Chapter Four
Part One | Chapter IV



The German Civil War: The Rise of Rudolf Hess

"The German Civil War began on October 1st/2nd at the stroke of midnight, when the main conspirators of the Oster Conspiracy stormed the Reich Chancellery with loyal Abwehr and Police forces and arrested Adolf Hitler, Heinrich Himmler and Hermann Goring among other senior officials. Subsequently the Berlin Police, under direction of their pro-Oster president, were ordered to clear the city of Nazi sympathisers and secure it and surrounding areas. Despite some resistance from pro-Nazi police forces and the SS, as well as one particularly tragic episode involving several overzealous Hitler Youth members who had fortified themselves in a civilian house, the city was secured quite quickly and almost bloodlessly.

However, despite the success of the lightning coup in the capital, the Osterists had failed on several fronts. First and foremost, despite their best hopes, the Nazi leadership was not decapitated. Propaganda Minister Goebbels, senior SS officials like Heydrich, and of course the Deputy Fuhrer Rudolf Hess were not in Berlin at the time and remained at large. Attempts to march on several regional capitals had failed, and popular support for the movement did not spontaneously materialize as expected. Even more importantly, however, was the severe situation that quickly developed on the Czechoslovak border and within the Sudetenland itself.

The defiant declaration that “Prussian officers do not mutiny” as uttered by Erich von Manstein when approached to declare loyalty to the newly-declared German Republic immediately became a rallying cry for the anti-Osterist sections of the German Army. The same army which had not yet been ordered into conflict with Czechoslovakia; and thus, the spirit of rebellion had not penetrated it despite Oster’s expectations..."

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Figure 4.2: The territorial situation of the German Civil War a few days following the Oster Coup


- Excerpt from "The German Civil War: The Rise of Rudolf Hess" (2013) by Falco Clutterbuck


Berlin, October 2nd, 1938


Luther had awoken to the sound of gunfire, disoriented at first with sweat soaking through his nightshirt as he attempted to determine whether he was experiencing a dream or a nightmarish reality. The understanding came rapidly when Elise jolted awake next to him in distress.

“What’s going on?”

“I don’t know.”

His curt reply seemed to make things even more serious. Now alert, they both dressed quickly, Luther reaching for his handgun and Elise for the radio.

To all Police officers of Berlin, if you are on duty or off, heed this call...”

A silent exchange of glances.

The dictatorial and disastrous Nazi leadership which had planned to plunge Germany into another world war is now under arrest. Remnants of the tyrannical apparatus of the now-dead Third Reich plague Berlin still. These are nothing but minor hooligans,” here there was considerable static before a clear voice returned, “but once again, the Berlin Police are all instructed to immediately come to the aid of the Law and to enforce peace and security on the city of Berlin to prevent unnecessary violence.”

At that, Elise fumbled a little with the black device, changing the frequency in an attempt to find a different channel, and then...

To all the people of Germany! The illegal government of Adolf Hitler is hereby dissolved. The German Republic shall restore democracy to the nation whatever it takes...”

Some more turning of the knob...

Ein Reich, ein Volk, ein Führer! Germans! Do not believe in the lies of the traitors and scum who occupy the Reich Chancellery! Treasonous factions have taken parts of Berlin, and the Westwall forces are in mutiny, but the German Army, the army of the people, remain loyal to true Germany! Rally to your fatherland! Save your fatherland! Your government is not yet gone! To arms, for Germany. To arms, for Hitler!

Static.

Glances evolved into looks, but the uneasy silence remained, even as more gunshots, louder too, were heard in the background.

Eventually, Elise spoke.

“You have to answer the call.”

Luther felt the sweat on his forehead more acutely as heat travelled through his body. That had been exactly what he had been most afraid of hearing. Sure, he did not like the Nazis, but he would much rather remain neutral in what looked like a civil war about him. He would rather remain safe, with his family. But Elise... her hatred for Hitler might have been greater than even her love for him.

And how could he blame her? Friends, family members... too many had been taken to prison, some killed, others simply gone missing... his own family had been largely spared, but Elise’s had not had the same luck. After all, she was a Jew in Hitler’s Germany.


Warsaw, October 2nd, 1938


Pilsudski’s colonels of Sanation, and the Castle, all at the same table at once.

That alone highlighted the gravity of the situation.

The emergency meeting of what was essentially Poland’s most powerful had been called before midnight, meant to determine the response to the expected German invasion of Czechoslovakia. But following the launch of the Oster conspiracy; not necessarily a surprise, though Poland had been kept somewhat in the dark about Chamberlain’s government’s dealings with the Oster group, the meeting had morphed into a comprehensive decision-making conference regarding what looked like an unsuccessful coup and a coming civil war in Germany.

“We have to intervene. This is our one, golden opportunity to destroy the threat to the West...”

“And what of the threat to the East? The British and French must move first, and we are to follow, otherwise we will be sitting ducks without Great Power backing.”

“Don’t expect the British and French to do anything. Chamberlain may have practically engineered this coup, but he’ll be first to deny knowledge and first to back out now that it’s clearly failed. We can’t rely on others.”

The deliberations and arguments would continue for a long time, and those crucial hours following the launch of the Oster Conspiracy, a historic decision would be reached in Warsaw...


London, October 2nd, 1938

He was awake and very alert when the news reached him, sipping coffee in his office as aides constantly walked in and out with briefings. In fact, he had even been forewarned by Abwehr contacts who had passed along the plan to march on the Reich Chancellery when the order to enter Czechoslovakia had been given to British Intelligence. But Neville Chamberlain felt a dread nonetheless, perhaps stemming from his utter lack of control of the situation.

The order had evidently never been given, yet the Conspiracy had gone ahead. He was not sure what had happened. Obviously, considerable confusion had seized control in every European capital. He couldn’t expect to know events in clarity.

Still, the negatives were quite clear. Nazism had not been decapitated in one clean stroke, and the fractures between the conspirators was on full display now that Germany seemed to be settling for an internal conflict. General Wilhelm Adam, the commander of the Westwall, had successfully manoeuvred most of Germany’s Western frontier forces into mutiny, but now looked like he was refusing to march eastward. Some military officials who subscribed to the conspiracy had refused to come out in mutiny openly altogether, citing the lack of anti-Nazi fury in the army without conflict with the Czechs. Still others had failed to mobilise actual forces.

Despite all that, Chamberlain had eyes for the reports from shocking events in the Sudetenland more than anything else. Evidently, the Sudeten German Party had launched what must have been pre-planned mass uprisings across the Czech regions. The penetration of the pro-Oster Abwehr into Sudeten-based German operations had been sufficient to foresee such an event; but insufficient to predict the widespread popular support that erupted among the Sudeten Germans, likely in response to the Oster coup itself, who had launched their own spontaneous riots and uprisings, with entire sections of the Sudetenland becoming undeclared war zones with active support from the German side.

It seemed through their action, they had inspired a reaction far greater than the force that had existed before.

As he stood up to attend the emergency meeting of the British government, the thoughts of doubt circulated more powerfully than ever before in his mind.

For the umpteenth time Chamberlain mentally sighed and asked himself that damned question.

Had he done the right thing?
 
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Dang, looks a lot smaller when posted...

Anyway, this chapter is still really just extrapolating the opening volleys of the German Civil War. The Civil War itself will start proper next chapter, and on that, I had a question to ask:

a) Would you prefer purely third-person view, Wiki-style coverage of the Civil War?
b) Or, maybe, first-person view exploration of events on the ground?
c) Finally, you could go for a mix of both?
 
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