London Thinks Big

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by kernals12, Oct 24, 2019.

  1. kernals12 Proudly on the Autism Spectrum Kicked

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2017
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    London already has the tube. And no public transportation system can come close to the ability of the automobile to take you anywhere you want at anytime without having to wait for other people to get on and off.

    And Britain shut off its last coal plants a few years ago.
     
    DoubleOphicleide32 likes this.
  2. phx1138 Bocagiste troll

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Location:
    Charlie Townsend's guest house
    I don't recall suggesting cars should be banned entire. I just think about NYC's subway system, & the remark, "Who learns to drive in Manhattan?" Most people coming into London don't need to drive, they need to get to/from work, at fixed times & places. You don't, in any fashion, need a car for that--but fast, cheap public transit works very nicely.
     
    Indiana Beach Crow likes this.
  3. Catsmate Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2008
    Have you an actual point to make? Or just puerile starawmanning?
     
  4. kernals12 Proudly on the Autism Spectrum Kicked

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2017
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    London has the Tube.
     
    DoubleOphicleide32 likes this.
  5. Masked Grizzly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2011
    Have to wonder how it could integrate an expanded ATL Central London Monorail network, even if it probably only compliments rather than replaces buses.


    This thread despite having an initial pre-1900 POD would give a rough idea as to how the Underground and railway network in London could have evolved (since it incorporates a number of post-1900 OTL proposals).


    As for the subject of road traffic in London, given the loosely "Tokyo-esque" evolution of this ATL London one possible solution would be a post-war UK equivalent of Japan's Kei Car segment that receive tax breaks and other benefits in terms of parking.

    All the more reason ATL UK needs a French-like Messmer Plan.
     
  6. kernals12 Proudly on the Autism Spectrum Kicked

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2017
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    You said the 273% increase in road capacity would be swallowed up by increases in travel.
     
  7. Peg Leg Pom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    History does tend to support that.
     
  8. kernals12 Proudly on the Autism Spectrum Kicked

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2017
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Would you drive 3 times as much as you do now if the roads had no traffic?
     
  9. Peg Leg Pom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    In situations where it currently takes longer to drive somewhere than walk due to congestion? Yes. In bad weather? Yes. If I'm in more pain than usual? Yes. If I'm just feeling lazy? Maybe.
     
  10. kernals12 Proudly on the Autism Spectrum Kicked

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2017
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Really? You can see yourself tripling your annual mileage?
     
  11. Peg Leg Pom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Maybe not tripling, but it's not that simple. If the roads have increased capacity then people who have either given up driving, rarely bother or just decided not to learn due to congestion will be tempted to start.
     
    phx1138 and WaterproofPotatoes like this.
  12. kernals12 Proudly on the Autism Spectrum Kicked

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2017
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I do not see any plausible way that per person VMT would triple. And even if it did, that's a good thing. It means people can visit their relatives more often or access jobs that are further away. It seems like highways are the only service where the fact that people use it is a vice instead of a virtue. Nobody ever says "If we build more power plants, people will just use more power"
     
  13. WaterproofPotatoes #TeamMahan

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    VMT wouldn't have to triple, it would just have to increase enough to fill enough arterial roads that the additional capacity is absorbed. When commuters are all incentivized to live in low-density housing far from the CBD and the personal automobile is the only practical method of commuting, that won't take long at all.
     
  14. Along the bay Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2019
    Most of the croydon tramlink was originally a British rail line which was unprofitable due to how expensive it was to run. Trams allowed costs to be reduced and made extensions to croydon town centre easier.
     
    Indiana Beach Crow and Devvy like this.
  15. kernals12 Proudly on the Autism Spectrum Kicked

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2017
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    It would increase the capacity of every single road, not just arterials. In fact, by moving pedestrians off the streets and allowing autonomous cars to flow through intersections continuously, city streets will probably see their traffic capacity increased by a lot more than 273%.
     
  16. kernals12 Proudly on the Autism Spectrum Kicked

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2017
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I prefer to cover them with asphalt and make them into BRT.
     
  17. kernals12 Proudly on the Autism Spectrum Kicked

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2017
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    London's population density is only 14,000 per square mile. That's half of what it is for New York.
     
  18. kernals12 Proudly on the Autism Spectrum Kicked

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2017
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Why not? It put Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook on the map.

    Sorry, it's the law, any mention of monorails requires a reference to the Simpsons episode.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
    Mike D, phx1138 and Broader Liberty like this.
  19. WaterproofPotatoes #TeamMahan

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Where are you getting your figures from? That sounds really specific and really optimistic. I'm all for increasing efficiency, but that reads like sales talk.
     
    Indiana Beach Crow likes this.
  20. kernals12 Proudly on the Autism Spectrum Kicked

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2017
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I provided a link to the study a few pages back.