London Thinks Big

[Masked Grizzly]

Are you seriously unironically suggesting the Soho scheme be built?

Not as such though it is intriguing nonetheless, if needing some tasteful touches here and there.

Still, at least the above scheme does not make revamps Soho unlike what was envisioned for Convent Garden in 1968 below as part of a number of proposals (under Covent Garden's moving) for the regeneration of the soon-to-be vacated Covent Garden after the fruit and veg market moved out to Nine Elms (variously dubbed by those against the proposals as Concrete Garden, Concrete Hell, etc). Among them were plans from 1968-1974 for Covent Garden to have been a major underground railway hub.

links
- http://www.coventgardenmemories.org.uk/page_id__121.aspx
- http://www.nickelinthemachine.com/2012/05/the-glc-and-how-they-nearly-destroyed-covent-garden/

 

[Masked Grizzly]

Crystal Tower Bridge by W.F.C. Holden (1943) - An architect called W.F.C. Holden feared for the bridge during the second world war, as bombs fell across the city. Regardless of whether Tower Bridge survived the war unscathed, he proposed remodeling the bridge by encasing it in steel and glass. Giving it an art deco streamline modern makeover as well as incorporating hundreds of thousands of square feet of airy office space.

Crystal 61 near Kings Cross / St Pancras by the Glass Age Development Committee (1960s) - Proposed by a group of architects known as the Glass Age Development Committee, and funded by Pillington Glass, the Crystal 61 would have stood as high as The Shard is today, at around 1,000 feet.

The £10 million tower would have also included lecture theatres and restaurants, being close to railway transport and hotels for visitors yet offering more floor space than Olympia was able to offer on land less than a 3rd occupied by the Oympia halls. In a move that wasn’t to be fully realised until The Gherkin, they also designed the building to bulge outwards so that the middle was wider than the ground floor – releasing more space for landscaping.

Entry for most visitors was however expected to be via the London Underground with subterranean entrances. However it would have also included in retrospect a totally unsustainable underground car park for 4500 visitors.

The structure was to be made from a central hollow concrete column, 130 feet in diameter at the ground, shrinking to 30 feet wide at the top. The foundations, based on an inverted cone (as also used at the Post Office Tower) would have gone 160 feet down, to the chalk beds.-https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2017/07/22/unbuilt-london-the-1000-tall-glass-conference-centre/

Imperial Monumental Halls and Tower (1904) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Monumental_Halls_and_Tower

 

[Masked Grizzly]

London Temple of Atheism (2012) by Alain de Botton - In 2012, Alain de Botton suggested building a lofty monument to atheism at some undisclosed point within the Square Mile. The 46 metre black monolith would have been hollow and open to the elements, a place for people to stand, ponder and gain perspective.

Looks aside, am assuming the following below would speedily undergo a more aesthetically pleasing renovation later on.

Mansion House Square project by Mies van der Rohe (1962-1985) - To be located at the site where No 1 Poultry currently stands, it is a 19-storey amber-glass and steel tower featuring a public square and an underground shopping centre. - https://www.dezeen.com/2017/02/01/m...e-square-london-tower-design-riba-exhibition/ and https://www.theguardian.com/cities/...n-house-square-best-building-london-never-had

It is interesting to note that in different circumstances the nearby Bank of England could have potentially moved to a new site at New Change in St Paul's facing the Cathedral as they did temporarily in OTL when the Department’s entire staff moved into a £6 million development at New Change in 1958.

Had such a thing happened, it would be fascinating seeing the Bank of England and One New Change Shopping Centre basically swap places. Which would have also meant there would have been no Bank of England vault to get in the way of historical rail schemes linking the Waterloo & City Line with the Northern City Line or another line / etc, along with the ATL Bank Shopping Centre potentially being linked with the underground shopping centre at Mansion House Square with both themselves connected to a network of OTL and ATL stations (e.g. Bank, Monument, Lothbury, Queen Victoria Street* and possibly Mansion House).

*- Queen Victoria Street (located at junction of Queen Street and Watling Street - itself not far from Mansion House)

 

[Catsmate]

Right now, automobiles are politically incorrect. That'll change with automation and electrification.

No it won't. Personal vehicles are ludicrously inefficient and wasteful.

 

[Catsmate]

Driverless cars can make much more efficient use of road space, doubling or even tripling capacity.

Citation required. And a proper study.

 

[kernals12]

No it won't. Personal vehicles are ludicrously inefficient and wasteful.

They're insanely convenient. And electric cars can do the equivalent of over 100 mpg

 

[Catsmate]

When a traffic light turns green, driverless cars will be able to simultaneously accelerate away from it. And if it weren't for pedestrians, there wouldn't need to be traffic lights at all, with driverless cars entering the intersection simultaneously from all directions.
This study says 273% increase

That study doesn't take into account a slew of factors.
No account for additional vehicle journeys as previously avoided trips are be taken.

 

[Catsmate]

AI will improve.

Now provide some timescales and costs, rather than blind faith.

 

[kernals12]

That study doesn't take into account a slew of factors.
No account for additional vehicle journeys as previously avoided trips are be taken.

How many people do you know would drive their cars 3 times as much if traffic were eliminated?

 

[phx1138]

However, in this thread her old man would have been taken away by a black cab

I was going to say something about the cab rank, but then he went & blew the gaff.

 

[Masked Grizzly]

Crystal Span Bridge at Vauxhall by the Glass Age Development Committee (1963) - A design commissioned in 1963 for a replacement bridge at Vauxhall, inspired by the design of the Crystal Palace, to be called the Crystal Span.

The Crystal Span was to have been a seven-story building supported by two piers in the river, overhanging the river banks at either end. The structure itself would have been enclosed in an air conditioned glass shell.

The lowest floor would have contained two three-lane carriageways for vehicles, with a layer of shops and a skating rink in the centre of the upper floors. The southern end of the upper floors was to house a luxury hotel, whilst the northern end was to house the modern art collection of the nearby Tate Gallery, which at this time was suffering from a severe shortage of display space. The roof was to have housed a series of roof gardens, observation platforms and courtyards, surrounding a large open-air theater. The entire structure would have been 970 feet (300 m) long and 127 feet (39 m) wide.

1) https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2017/05/06/unbuilt-london-the-crystal-span-bridge/
2) http://blog.jeroenapers.nl/post/137804228691/de-crystal-span-een-voorstel-van-geoffrey

Oxford Street Flyover (1983) by Bryan Avery - The plan was for a three lane elevated road to run the length of Oxford Street, about 2 stories above the street level. Underneath would have been paved over and given to pedestrians along with small shops and bars, with escalators up to to the elevated street for bus stops and the like. In addition, one of the architect’s trademarks, would have been a glass canopy between the road and the shops, effectively turning the entire of Oxford Street into an indoor shopping mall. The elevated road would have dipped down to street level at Oxford Circus for the interchange, with pedestrians themselves being elevated over the road within a glass dome. - https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2016/01/16/unbuilt-london-the-oxford-street-flyover/

Bryan Avery later proposed a revamped version of the original 1983 proposal in 2016.

 

[kernals12]

Crystal Span Bridge at Vauxhall by the Glass Age Development Committee (1963) - A design commissioned in 1963 for a replacement bridge at Vauxhall, inspired by the design of the Crystal Palace, to be called the Crystal Span.

The Crystal Span was to have been a seven-story building supported by two piers in the river, overhanging the river banks at either end. The structure itself would have been enclosed in an air conditioned glass shell.

The lowest floor would have contained two three-lane carriageways for vehicles, with a layer of shops and a skating rink in the centre of the upper floors. The southern end of the upper floors was to house a luxury hotel, whilst the northern end was to house the modern art collection of the nearby Tate Gallery, which at this time was suffering from a severe shortage of display space. The roof was to have housed a series of roof gardens, observation platforms and courtyards, surrounding a large open-air theater. The entire structure would have been 970 feet (300 m) long and 127 feet (39 m) wide.

1) https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2017/05/06/unbuilt-london-the-crystal-span-bridge/
2) http://blog.jeroenapers.nl/post/137804228691/de-crystal-span-een-voorstel-van-geoffrey

View attachment 500318

Oxford Street Flyover (1983) by Bryan Avery - The plan was for a three lane elevated road to run the length of Oxford Street, about 2 stories above the street level. Underneath would have been paved over and given to pedestrians along with small shops and bars, with escalators up to to the elevated street for bus stops and the like. In addition, one of the architect’s trademarks, would have been a glass canopy between the road and the shops, effectively turning the entire of Oxford Street into an indoor shopping mall. The elevated road would have dipped down to street level at Oxford Circus for the interchange, with pedestrians themselves being elevated over the road within a glass dome. - https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2016/01/16/unbuilt-london-the-oxford-street-flyover/

Bryan Avery later proposed a revamped version of the original 1983 proposal in 2016.

View attachment 500319

I frankly prefer this scheme for Oxford street, drawn up in the 1963 report "Traffic in Towns". It puts the pedestrians above and it allows much more traffic to go through.

 

[Masked Grizzly]

I frankly prefer this scheme for Oxford street, drawn up in the 1963 report "Traffic in Towns". It puts the pedestrians above and it allows much more traffic to go through.

Would have to agree, some would mourn the perceived loss of heritage yet fascinated by the total sum of the various schemes on this thread radically changing the face of London.

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

Given how many of these schemes date from the 1960's and the "quality" of most buildings from that era I wonder what we'd be in the process of replacing them with right now.

 

[kernals12]

I think you're coming at this from an American perspective of 'abolish pavements and to hell with pedestrians'. The problem in the density of UK cities isn't so much pollution, though that's part of it, as congestion.

What's wrong with having pedestrians put on different levels from traffic? The people of Minneapolis will tell you it's pretty awesome.

 

[kernals12]

Not as such though it is intriguing nonetheless, if needing some tasteful touches here and there.

Still, at least the above scheme does not make revamps Soho unlike what was envisioned for Convent Garden in 1968 below as part of a number of proposals (under Covent Garden's moving) for the regeneration of the soon-to-be vacated Covent Garden after the fruit and veg market moved out to Nine Elms (variously dubbed by those against the proposals as Concrete Garden, Concrete Hell, etc). Among them were plans from 1968-1974 for Covent Garden to have been a major underground railway hub.



links
- http://www.coventgardenmemories.org.uk/page_id__121.aspx
- http://www.nickelinthemachine.com/2012/05/the-glc-and-how-they-nearly-destroyed-covent-garden/

I like the Covent Gardens scheme. Let's build it

1970

London continued to redesign many of its major thoroughfares with Pedestrian Grade Separation in mind

One was Covent Gardens, where pedestrians were put on a higher level free to walk into the shops, restaurants, hotels, and conference center while all traffic was banished to a road and parking lot below.

Furthermore, Oxford Street was developed this way, essentially creating an expressway right through Downtown London that was needed with the cancellation of Ringway 1.

 

[Lucas]

I would like to see what the Underground would became in ITTL London.

 

[kernals12]

I would like to see what the Underground would became in ITTL London.

If you read it, I expanded it so it reaches Bushey Heath and provides service through Hackney.

 

[kernals12]

Before I forget

2000

A proposal to restore tram service to Croydon after 48 years was laughed off by the London City Council. As one councilman said "Replace buses with trams? What are they going to do next? Replace their computers with typewriters? I've never heard such a thick idea ever".

 

[phx1138]

Southbank Centre proposal (1946) by Misha Black - Also known as "Crystal Curve", this alternate design was to be located at Waterloo.

I kinda like this one. Not sure if it fits the neighborhood, tho.

And the monorail proposal sounds like a really good one, if getting cars of the street is a goal. Any train will carry many, many times the passengers cars will, & a monorail could run on electricity produced without London smog. (Unfortunately, it'd probably be by burning coal... Which is what's ultimately wrong with the electric car, but you'd never get the green zealots to admit it. )

And how did this monstrosity ever get approved?


I agree with Prince Charles. Van Der Rohe's tower was inappropriate for the neighboring architecture--but it beats hell out of that.