Logical Middle East Borders

[Grimm Reaper]

Thank you, Keenir, for your compassion and mercy! I grovel and abase myself before your kindness!

...grovelling continues far beyond the point of good taste for quite some time...​

 

[Wendell]

who put the Basques to rest?

Franco

Seriously, most Basques are not terrorizing the Spanish state. The ETA is far weaker today than it has been in many years.

 

[Empror Mike]

Palestine isn't really all that desolate - and Argentina certainly is not.

From what I understand, there was no plan to give the Jews a state in Argentina. The two ideas most near to what we may call "a state" were Uganda and that island in Canada.

How do you define "success"? Israel wouldn't exist if not for massive military and economic aid from the US. That sounds more like an "undead" state to me.

The wars of 48' and 67' were won with no American aid whatsoever. These are considered Israel's finest victories.
At the time, most Israeli weapons were purchased from Romania and France. Purchased at full prices and all.

 

[Calgacus]

From what I understand, there was no plan to give the Jews a state in Argentina. The two ideas most near to what we may call "a state" were Uganda and that island in Canada.




The wars of 48' and 67' were won with no American aid whatsoever. These are considered Israel's finest victories.
At the time, most Israeli weapons were purchased from Romania and France. Purchased at full prices and all.

There was quite a lot of money in private donations from the US though, mostly from the Jewish community, also from European Jews. The material resources available to Israel in both wars were not insubstantial.

What Abdul was saying is that Israel has been propped up by US aid.

Were it not for that aid, they would have been forced to seek an accommodation with the surrounding states, probably giving up territory in return for recognition.

 

[Leo Caesius]

Indeed, there's a synagogue in Teaneck, NJ that is auctioning real estate in the West Bank settlements right now, even as we speak. Non-Jews such as yours truly need not apply to take part in this auction, not that I'm enthused by the idea of funding the West Bank settlers.

 

[Grimm Reaper]

Calgacus, prior to 1967 it would probably have meant that Israel did not survive. Prior to US aid post-1967 Israel's economy could not begin to provide for anything like the military that they needed. There was a reason that tanks thrown away by West Germany formed the core of Israel's armored units in 1967.

Better yet, study the 1956 campaign and the weaponry France was finally prevailed on to send to Israel. The quantity and quality were both so low, yet so desperately needed by Israel that Tel Aviv may have been taking a risk by revealing how weak they really were.

If anyone wants I'll give a list of what was requested and what was actually received.

 

[Calgacus]

While you're doing that, why don't you compare their equipment training and organisation with the Arab countries surrouding them. Also, if you have figures for GDP or whatever at the time, that would be useful.

Calgacus, prior to 1967 it would probably have meant that Israel did not survive. Prior to US aid post-1967 Israel's economy could not begin to provide for anything like the military that they needed. There was a reason that tanks thrown away by West Germany formed the core of Israel's armored units in 1967.

Better yet, study the 1956 campaign and the weaponry France was finally prevailed on to send to Israel. The quantity and quality were both so low, yet so desperately needed by Israel that Tel Aviv may have been taking a risk by revealing how weak they really were.

If anyone wants I'll give a list of what was requested and what was actually received.

 

[Empror Mike]

You guys are missing it!


Everyone had food to eat down here.
And we had weapons to fight with.
We won our wars. Through motivation and courage only, but we won.

We won 67' (Israel's greatest victory) WITHOUT ANY AMERICAN HELP. And if you say that private American Jewish doners is considered help from the USA, then ur a fool.

 

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

You guys are missing it!


Everyone had food to eat down here.
And we had weapons to fight with.
We won our wars. Through motivation and courage only, but we won.

We won 67' (Israel's greatest victory) WITHOUT ANY AMERICAN HELP. And if you say that private American Jewish doners is considered help from the USA, then ur a fool.

Did you know that your name is missing a letter?

 

[EvolvedSaurian]

Did you know that your name is missing a letter?

I wasn't gonna say anything...

 

[Empror Mike]

Did you know that your name is missing a letter?

Yes. I started joining online forums when I was 9 and then i thought "emperor" is spelled that way. So I stuck with the nickname.

But what does that have to do with my over-emotionism?

 

[Keenir]

You guys are missing it!

could you wear a bigger target? we'll try not to miss that.

We won our wars. Through motivation and courage only, but we won.

what's the old saying? "that and 67 cents will get you a ticket on the subway".

 

[htgriffin]

I don't think anyone on this board would really deny that. Sadly Hamas don't seem to be of that opinion.

There are those who equate the Arabs of the Cis-Jordan gaining the right to live as full citizens in the land of thier fathers as the 'End' of Israel (regarding Zionism as inherently and unchangibly hostile to such).

I disagree, to put it mildly.

More to the point I consider such rhetoric to be severly counterproductive as it convinces all too many allies within Israel that they must side with the most bigoted loons or face a new Shoah.

HTG

 

[htgriffin]

Where would you have placed it in Germany? And, before or after the population transfers instigated in Central Europe by the USSR?

One guy I know suggested Mecklenburg.

I for one think that Stalin's biggest realpoltik (as opposed to moral/ethical) error was the failure to turn East Prussia into a YSSR or Yidisher Folks-Republik.

HTG

 

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

There are those who equate the Arabs of the Cis-Jordan gaining the right to live as full citizens in the land of thier fathers as the 'End' of Israel (regarding Zionism as inherently and unchangibly hostile to such).

I disagree, to put it mildly.

More to the point I consider such rhetoric to be severly counterproductive as it convinces all too many allies within Israel that they must side with the most bigoted loons or face a new Shoah.

HTG

And unless you can find any instance in this thread of anyone making that claim I'm pushing the button on the straw man alert.

Did you know that your name is missing a letter?

In other news, there are those who say that we should make black people slaves again, an idea which the random quote above clearly does not present. I disagree, to put it mildly. Wonder at my moral splendor, you peasants!

 

[htgriffin]

What are you talking about? What expulsion of the Sephardic Jews? Do you even know what Sephardic Jews are? They were kicked out of Spain by Ferdinand and Isabella and sought refuge is Islamic lands.

And in the 1940s-50s, kicked out of same for being of a suspect faith.

The Palestinians have not been able to "move on" because their LAND WAS TAKEN FROM THEM and they live in ABJECT POVERTY, after having done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to deserve it. It's easy for you to say "move on". Have you ever had your people homelands snatched from you?

Abdul, take a deep breath.

Now believe it or not, I agree wholeheartedly with you on this. IMO the most honorable solution would be full Israeli Citizenship with freedom of movement and the whole nine yards for all Arabs in the new provences of Gaza, Judea*, and Samaria*; along with moving the residents of the refugee camps further afield to the head of the queue for Immigration. Proof of lands/property expropriated by private individuals will be met by cash payment and resettlement assistance.

(*: before anyone starts, I figure these names to be a reasonable concession to toss the Settler Loons while undercutting them across the board elsewhere)

Those who cannot tolerate a CisJordan that is not Judenfrei are free to leave, the rest?

HTG

 

[htgriffin]

And unless you can find any instance in this thread of anyone making that claim I'm pushing the button on the straw man alert.

Feel free then, I was reporting the belief of someone on an unrelated ML I am on.

HTG (Pro-Arab Zionist)

 

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

Feel free then, I was reporting the belief of someone on an unrelated ML I am on.

HTG (Pro-Arab Zionist)

Well at least have the common courtesy not to quote an unrelated post while you're doing it. Look at my quoting of Abdul and ask yourself what he'd think of me if it wasn't an obvious joke.

 

[Wendell]

One guy I know suggested Mecklenburg.

I for one think that Stalin's biggest realpoltik (as opposed to moral/ethical) error was the failure to turn East Prussia into a YSSR or Yidisher Folks-Republik.

HTG

I posted a map in the "Map Thread II" thread that has Mecklenburg within a Europe-based Jewish state.

 

[gianluca790]

excuse me but you are wrong

3) Join all the Kurdish areas in one state. Given the lack of clear ethnic borders you'll end up with significant Kurdish minorities outside of it and/or non-Kurdish minorities in it.

The ethnic minority Kurds would not want to be outside of their country. Let them all be united and boot all no-Kurds out, back to where they belong.

4) Create a something-Kurdish federation, as I proposed, so that you can ignore the lack of at least one clear ethnic border. In this case it was the Arab-Kurdish one. If you're willing to detach part of Anatolia to create a Turco-Kurdish federation, I'm not opposed.[/quote]

Ethnically homogenoeus states are the type of entities that provoke the least headaches, regardless of how this is achieved. The relief after it is all going to be over ending in a peaceful solution will be worth all the headaches that you will have been put through in the process of their creation.