Llama Survives in Mexico Post-Pleistocene

Further question, since I can't find an answer via the almighty Google - why do modern llamas fare so poorly in tropical/humid environments?
 
Further question, since I can't find an answer via the almighty Google - why do modern llamas fare so poorly in tropical/humid environments?

They're just not built for it. Neither are polar bears.

Humid itself is not the issue cause llamas and guanacos Di live by the coasts in Chile and Argentina. But hot and humid tropical does seem to be a barrier. Maybe the Mesoamerican domesticators manage to breed a type that does.
 
Considering that North American llamas were bigger then their South American cousins, I'd say that they could be used as pack animals and possibly pull travois. Also if domesticated, then there's a source of fertilizer for their fields. Don't know how useful they'd be for Mesoamericans, but for Mound Builders, Cliff Dwellers and other Pre-Columbian people, it might make a difference.
 
Do you guys suppose it's possible for an endemic disease to cross from llamas to humans? I know no such diseases arose in the Andes IOTL (I think), but maybe if llamas are bred in more density in Mexico? Or maybe the somewhat different lifestyle/genetics of Hemiauchenia (the North American llama) would allow for such a thing?

Basically, in order to get diseases jumping from llamas to humans you need the llamas to be in close proximity to humans, maybe even sleeping next to them. Humans drinking llama milk (which does not happen with OTL's domestic llamas) could also facilitate disease exchange. Ultimately, though, I think you need a lot more llamas-not just more densely packed, but just a higher overall global llama population so that there's more opportunity for infectious diseases to jump the barrier. Having llamas crossing the desert to North America and becoming widespread there would help with that, though I don't know if it's beyond the scope you want.
 
Basically, in order to get diseases jumping from llamas to humans you need the llamas to be in close proximity to humans, maybe even sleeping next to them. Humans drinking llama milk (which does not happen with OTL's domestic llamas) could also facilitate disease exchange. Ultimately, though, I think you need a lot more llamas-not just more densely packed, but just a higher overall global llama population so that there's more opportunity for infectious diseases to jump the barrier. Having llamas crossing the desert to North America and becoming widespread there would help with that, though I don't know if it's beyond the scope you want.

Yeah, essentially it is achievable. But it didn't happen with Andean cultures. Maybe one of the Mesoamerican or Arido/Oasisamerican cultures that domesticate TTL's Northern Llama also develop a breed for drinking its milk or a small pet breed for keeping in the house.
 
Basically, in order to get diseases jumping from llamas to humans you need the llamas to be in close proximity to humans, maybe even sleeping next to them. Humans drinking llama milk (which does not happen with OTL's domestic llamas) could also facilitate disease exchange. Ultimately, though, I think you need a lot more llamas-not just more densely packed, but just a higher overall global llama population so that there's more opportunity for infectious diseases to jump the barrier. Having llamas crossing the desert to North America and becoming widespread there would help with that, though I don't know if it's beyond the scope you want.

I could see drinking llama milk arising in more arid regions. And I definitely plan to have the changes expand as far as is reasonable, so the entire North American continent will be affected. :)

I guess via intermittent trade with the Andes, we may see some changes in South America, too.

Yeah, essentially it is achievable. But it didn't happen with Andean cultures. Maybe one of the Mesoamerican or Arido/Oasisamerican cultures that domesticate TTL's Northern Llama also develop a breed for drinking its milk or a small pet breed for keeping in the house.

A few breeds will develop, probably a big one for draft and pack animal work, a fluffier one for textiles, likely one for meat, too.

EDIT: Another species of Hemiauchenia might also survive, so I guess that could be a basis for some of the different breeds.

The llama genus concerned was somewhat bigger than OTL's domestic llama. I wonder if they'd make possible mounts.
 
I could see drinking llama milk arising in more arid regions.
A little googling shows a potential problem.

It can be done, but it's a lot more difficult than milking a goat or a cow. The teats are far smaller and it's very difficult to get a good enough grip to be able to strip any milk out.

llama milk that is lower in fat and salt and higher in phosphorus and calcium than cow or goat milk. A female llama will only produce about 60 ml (2.1 imp fl oz) of milk at a time when she gives milk. For this reason, the cria must suckle frequently to receive the nutrients it requires
 
A little googling shows a potential problem.

It can be done, but it's a lot more difficult than milking a goat or a cow. The teats are far smaller and it's very difficult to get a good enough grip to be able to strip any milk out.

llama milk that is lower in fat and salt and higher in phosphorus and calcium than cow or goat milk. A female llama will only produce about 60 ml (2.1 imp fl oz) of milk at a time when she gives milk. For this reason, the cria must suckle frequently to receive the nutrients it requires

That's pretty interesting, but unfortunate. What about camels? Much the same?
 
Pakistani and Afghani camels are supposed to produce the highest yields of milk, up to 30 litres per day. The Bactrian camel, produces 5 litres per day and the dromedary produces an average of 20 litres per day. Intensive breeding of cows has created animals that can produce 40 litres per day in ideal conditions.
 
I guess Hemiauchenia lactation could go either way. It's hard to speculate on the biology of an animal that's been extinct for so long, but I'll place the lactation of wild big-headed llamas somewhere in between the extremes; just enough to be made useful with breeding.
 

katchen

Banned
Altitude mimics latitude. There are camelids (guanuco, to be exact) living at low altitudes in Patagonia and Tierra del Fuego. Magellan, when he visited the area (see Lawrence Bergreen "Over the Edge of the World" Magellan's Terrifying Circumnavigation of the Globe) and wintered at Golfo de San Julian , saw Indians corralling otherwise wild guanuco once a year an dshearing them, Probably by plucking away their fur, then weaving their wool into clothing. Which did not translate into any other agriculture. Th eInca could have prbably readily conquered all the way to Ttttierra del Fuego, but didn't get past the Mapuche.
What this means is that the llama (if not hunted to wextinction) could well have survived in Western North America as a domesticated animal a lot further North than we realize. Llamas could have turned the Navajo, Anasaxi , Paiute, Ute, Shoshoni and even tgribes further North such as tghe Kalispell, Salish, WenatcheeTsimshan --maybe even the Gwiichiin and Init peoples of Alaska . And if llamas got that far, there is no reason that they could not have persisted or spead to Northeast Siberia as well. Or that the skillset involved in herding llama could not be applied to domesticating caribou into domesticated reindeer--which reamin the most domesticable large animal native to North America. Reindeer can even be ridden, as well as milked.--and are by the Evenki and Yakut people of Siberia as well as the Sami of Northern Europe.
 
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