Littorio-Class BBs, how would they have fared at Sicily?

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If they are detected, they will get just about every carrier plane after them.

Even so, I think the support ships for the invasion could take on the Littorios. Between destroyer torpedo runs to the big boys, the Italians would be sunk. They may take some ships them though in the mean time.
 
The best thing to do is to make a night run out of Taranto and hit the invasion area right at dawn, otherwise way out classed by Allied radar gunnery. Really is any sea battle with the Allies possible after late 42.

Perhaps a more interesting scenario is an April 43 Tunisian evacuation with the Italian navy having more fuel to cover it. I can see the Italians being motivated at this and fighting to protect soldiers in boats would bring out its better qualities.
 
http://www.naval-history.net/WW2CampaignsRNMed3.htm has the Allied Order of Battle, and it isn't terribly encouraging for the Italians. 4 or 6 Battleships (Nelson, Rodney, Warspite and Valiant are named, and the map only shows 4 but the OrBat lists "6"), 2 Fleet (Formidable and Indomitable) plus one Light and four Escort Carriers, 15 Cruisers, 128 Destroyers and 26 Submarines - not to mention the obvious land-based air from Malta and North Africa.

On the Italian side Vittoria Veneto was badly damaged on the 5th of June 1943 when she was hit by an American air raid on La Spezia which caused "serious structural damage" forcing her to be shifted to Genoa for repairs. Roma was hit in the same series of raids but her damage was less severe - however she was under repair from the 1st of July to the 13th of August. Getting her out of dockyard hands after they've already been working on her for a week isn't realistically going to be much quicker than finishing the repair - but by that time the battle for Sicily is pretty much over.

Which means the correlation is Littorio .vs. Nelson, Rodney, Valiant and Warspite. And that means you don't have a battle - Littorio can steam at 30 kts, while the Queen Elizabeths could once have done 24 kts and the NelRods 23 kts. Not being a moron, as soon as the captain of of Littorio realises that he's pitching his 9 x 15" guns against 16 x 15" and 18 x 16" he'll be running like hell for home and screaming for air cover.
 
The best thing to do is to make a night run out of Taranto ...

What Italian ships were docked at Taranto at this time & how did they fare? I had been under the impression the repeated Allied bombing of the Italian ports had caused the Italian fleet to be withdrawn north where they were less vulnerable. Am I wrong?
 
What Italian ships were docked at Taranto at this time & how did they fare? I had been under the impression the repeated Allied bombing of the Italian ports had caused the Italian fleet to be withdrawn north where they were less vulnerable. Am I wrong?

According to the Genocide, after Operation Judgement, the Regina Marina moved the remaining ships to Naples.
 

TFSmith121

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Poorly...

Assuming the Italians put together enough fuel for a raid on the Sicily invasion forces, how would the Littorio-Class BBs have fared against Allied warships?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Littorio-class_battleship


Poorly...

All three were battered by USAAF and RAF air raids while in port in June, and if they were ordered to sea, it would be a one way trip due to Allied supremacy at sea and in the air.

Cripes, the US cruisers and destroyers in the 8th Fleet alone are enough to ward them off, as per Guadalcanal and Samar; add in the RN, and both land-based and carrier air, and it's no contest.

Best,
 
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As far as I can tell they were ordered north to la Spezia due to the Allied air attacks on Naples harbor. While it is true the B17 & other heavy bombers had a poor hit rate vs moving ships, the hit rate vs stationary ships in harbors was a more useful.
 

CalBear

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http://www.naval-history.net/WW2CampaignsRNMed3.htm has the Allied Order of Battle, and it isn't terribly encouraging for the Italians. 4 or 6 Battleships (Nelson, Rodney, Warspite and Valiant are named, and the map only shows 4 but the OrBat lists "6"), 2 Fleet (Formidable and Indomitable) plus one Light and four Escort Carriers, 15 Cruisers, 128 Destroyers and 26 Submarines - not to mention the obvious land-based air from Malta and North Africa.

On the Italian side Vittoria Veneto was badly damaged on the 5th of June 1943 when she was hit by an American air raid on La Spezia which caused "serious structural damage" forcing her to be shifted to Genoa for repairs. Roma was hit in the same series of raids but her damage was less severe - however she was under repair from the 1st of July to the 13th of August. Getting her out of dockyard hands after they've already been working on her for a week isn't realistically going to be much quicker than finishing the repair - but by that time the battle for Sicily is pretty much over.

Which means the correlation is Littorio .vs. Nelson, Rodney, Valiant and Warspite. And that means you don't have a battle - Littorio can steam at 30 kts, while the Queen Elizabeths could once have done 24 kts and the NelRods 23 kts. Not being a moron, as soon as the captain of of Littorio realises that he's pitching his 9 x 15" guns against 16 x 15" and 18 x 16" he'll be running like hell for home and screaming for air cover.

There were two covering forces. The one mentioned had 4 BB. The other, the Western Covering force was centered on Howe and the KGV (interestingly enough the U.S. replaced them on the Home Fleet's Tirpitz watch with the South Dakota and Alabama during the landings before returning the two U.S. fast BB to the Pacific.
 

TFSmith121

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The RN covering forces were even stronger than that;

There were two covering forces. The one mentioned had 4 BB. The other, the Western Covering force was centered on Howe and the KGV (interestingly enough the U.S. replaced them on the Home Fleet's Tirpitz watch with the South Dakota and Alabama during the landings before returning the two U.S. fast BB to the Pacific.

The RN covering forces were even stronger than that; along with Nelson, Rodney, Warspite, Valiant, Howe, and King George V, the covering forces included Indomitable, Formidable, six light cruisers, and 24 destroyers.

Escort and gunfire support forces assigned to defend the assault convoys included seven large cruisers (7 RN, 5 USN), 3 AA cruisers (RN), 105 destroyers and destroyer escorts (51 RN, 47 USN, 5 Greek, 2 Polish), and 70 other escorts and minesweepers, as well as three monitors.

Along with the land-based air, both RAF and USAAF, the Italians would face close to certain destruction if they, in fact, went into action with the RN and USN forces off the south coast; as it was, when the Italians actually did sortie against the 7th Army's operations on the north coast of Sicily on 5-6 and 7-8 August (2 of 4 cruisers - Montecuccoli, di Savoia, Garibaldi, d' Aosta - each night), they actually broke off rather than face TF 88, the cruisers USS Philadelphia and Savannah and the destroyers USS Gherardi, Nelson, Jeffers, Murphy, Trippe, and Knight, under RAdm. Lyal Davidson.

Best,
 
There were two covering forces. The one mentioned had 4 BB. The other, the Western Covering force was centered on Howe and the KGV (interestingly enough the U.S. replaced them on the Home Fleet's Tirpitz watch with the South Dakota and Alabama during the landings before returning the two U.S. fast BB to the Pacific.
Thanks - I figured that there had to be another force out there, but I couldn't find the reference to show it. Getting away from a KGV would be a lot tougher than from a NelRod!
 
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