Little Boy failed to detonate
- Thread starter Eleven11
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Hendryk
Banned
I'd rather they weren't. This thread should be kept around as a textbook example of extremist bias, and I for one intend to use several of the statements made by Eleven11 to illustrate various points in debates to come. An obvious one has already found its way into my signature: if a nutcase like him is allowed to homeschool his children, then something's wrong.
Eleven11
Banned
You are forgetting that an airborne radial explosion creates radial patterns of weather disturbances below and above and around so the mushroom cloud has nothing to anchor down to so-to-speak. Let me guess thermobaric studies were not you strong point in the gulag?
I'm sure they already regret screwing up there. Even Tibbetts described the cloud as Christmas tree shape at one occasion, said it was not a mushroom at all. Why would the guy be so contradictory if his claim is true?Also: if this weapon would produce no mushroom cloud why do the hoaxers claim it does?The classic problem with any conspiracy theory: the cover-up was so poor it's laughable.
If you had been paying attention you would know that the steets were clear, the charred trees with their delicate extremities intact, underground sewage barely damaged from falling structures whose wood beams had burned through, missing historical seismograms etc. No shockwave no single blast no atom bomb.
Do you know the role played by a DUMP LOAD in electricity production? Do you understand what that is? If you don't then you have not checked everything. Are you one of these people that believe 30 years of heavy duty energy conservation efforts translate into BIGGER demand?4)
Is this a rebuttal or have you gone to shilling for me now?
You don't drop a so-called billion dollar superweapon that was described as so simple they were sure it would work the first time on the heads of your military adversary without a backup plan. I mean, just taking out the garbage requires a backup plan if the truck passed too early.
So called nuclear reactors are no just big and made of concrete they play the important role of dump load for conventional sources of electrical generation.
7) That's right, Stalin let the US tell the world they were clever enough to build a perfect non-existent weapon.
The Soviets milked that hoax for every red cent in their own country. Hardly an incentive to come forward and spoil the fun for all the other hoax aspirants.Yes it is because the historical record says they were. The historical record is what s under review here.That s because you were unable to visualize the example I gave.Nobody said the bomber sustained damage, just that it was violently rocked twice at 28,000 feet from the so-called blast.The crew of the Enola Gay were said to be seasoned combat pilots. Those types of people don't describe a gentle breeze as ressembling flak.Instead of generating a link storm why not just take a deep breath and tell us what it is about those photos that we are to find compelling? What do they show, for the benefot of those that will not see them. I have not got picture posting priviledges here so don't ask me any pictures yet. I have mountains of pictures.I think I missed your point.The media were censored severely. The US had a close eye on everything written in the press, tv, etc. Very draconian censorship. As if they were covering up/creating an atom bomb hoax.Officially 7 planes left Tinian for the Hiroshima sortie. 3 in front and 3 behind so where do people come off saying there was only one plane in the official story is beyond me. Seems they got their lies mixed up again. Don't forget also, most of those that saw the swarms of B-29 would never survive to tell the tale.Do what?11) Well, you know, most of them were still recovering from a starvation diet, so you can see why they would have means motive and opportunity...It shows.I crown you the king of wishful thinkers in this thread.Don't let me keep you from your rag and snake-oil sales.
Edwin Corley, The Jesus Factor (1984).
This is either the most outrageous troll or the dimmest I've ever seen.
Thank you! It's been bugging me all morning that I've seen that idea before!
Eleven11
Banned
My youngest has more brains in his big toenail than you have had in all this discussion. Do you have posters of Stalin in your bedroom?
Eleven11
Banned
Nobody is forcing you to read this thread. Don't you have some global warming coffee clutching to do elsewhere?
We homeschoolers have to stick together, Eleven. Just ignore the others on this thread. They are very easily indoctrinated.
I have never heard about this theory that atomic bombs and nuclear reactors were all fake, though. Could you please show me why this is so? I would very much like to know the truth.
I have never heard about this theory that atomic bombs and nuclear reactors were all fake, though. Could you please show me why this is so? I would very much like to know the truth.
i feel a little sad that while he can Jew-bash in general he doesn't want to try and talk to a real Jew (me) oh well, any way guys, who's up for more Tea?
Hendryk
Banned
I go straight to the source with twin portraits of Darwin and Marx. Two guys with big beards next to each other.
Abdul Hadi Pasha
Banned
I agree with all this. Still, there's a lot less moral ambiguity about bombing a purely military target.
Conventional bombing produces some degree of warning and the ability to seek shelter. A nuclear bombing, at least in this timeframe, will kill everyone with radiation. The difference is certain material damage and possible loss of life as opposed to certain loss of life.
Conventional bombing produces some degree of warning and the ability to seek shelter. A nuclear bombing, at least in this timeframe, will kill everyone with radiation. The difference is certain material damage and possible loss of life as opposed to certain loss of life.
Well it must have done something even if it was just divert troops to AA defences, although I agree it was not effective in breaking morale, which was the hope.
I don't know, but I've often wondered if the "a lathe in every home" story was actually true or it was just a rationalisation for indiscriminate attacks.
In theory they were used on military targets (the aiming points were factories) obviously collateral damage was huge.
There doesn't seem much question that there were those who wanted to see the effect on buildings IIRC. The moral question is somewhat unresolvable IMO, it did stop the war and probably overall casualties were lower because of that (I know it might have come to an end anyway, but that isn't definite).
I read somewhere that the US avoided bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki conventionally and specifically chose those targets for nuclear bombing to see the full effects of nuclear bombing vs. conventional bombing. It could be a huge crock of bullshit, though.
Eleven11
Banned
In Tokyo the air raid sirens wailed on and off without consequence for a few days then when the 300 B-29 arrived the population, made more complacent by repeated false alarms, were caught offguard and most never made it to the shelters. Also, the shelters are not the best place to be either because the firestorm sucks all the air out of them and suffocates the people seeking refuge there. So, not all conventional bombings give forewarning.
Nobody ever said that the majority of those exposed to so-called atomic explosions had died from radiation. Most died from suffocation and exposure to the carcinogens in the black rain that poured down torrentially post bombing.
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Look at the aerial pictures of Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki side by side and see for yourself that they all bear the same ordinance signature. Vannevar Bush, one of the designers of the fuse mechanism for the M-69 firebomb should have easily recognized his handywork in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The conspiracy was/is vast, the fortunes stolen, gigantic.
Eleven11
Banned
That is what I am saying.
If they attested anything else it would have been suppressed. Big big money at work in this story. Big big bucks to be made by installing the prepared scripts into the Jap psyche. Millions of pamphlets dropped and all form of psy ops were controlling that place.
Would they have published the truth and ruin the fun and profit?
Were you AT any of them? Do you know the difference between 20 tons of TNT and a so-called nuclear explosion?
Established means prepared for public consumption and the nuclear plants are dump loads bleeding off surplus energy not creating it. The big utils know the public would freak paying the prices they are paying while massive surpluses of energy must be bled out of the system.
They had seismologists when the Us said they exploded an atom bomb on Hiroshima. They had the means to OUT them but they are all connected at the hip, get it. They were all going to profit from that hoax and the upcoming moonlanding hoaxes. Big partners in crime those two.
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People started asking questions and we somehow drifed into this area. I have not changed the hypothetical scenario that got this thread rolling. Some posters dismissed the legitimacy of the scenario by saying it was not probable when all I needed was for my hypothesis to be possible.
It seems strange to me that while we mere un-trained gullible fools can't use any document or photo that supports our case, that equally untrained (but they know teh trugth!) "hoax-busters" can use photos taken from the same cameras on the same rolls of film and make supposedly iron-proof arguments. Apparently while anything source by the anything with any connection to the government is automatically rejected as biased and tainted, any picture from the government (however erroneously analyzed by an untrained civilian) that remotely supports the hoax-buster is somehow stronger than God's word. It's not just a double standard, it's an explicitly self-contradicting double standard. The roll of photos in the camera that takes a picture of the nuclear mushroom cloud is obviously tampered evidence, and yet the same film that took a picture of the ground is the truth.
Similarly, I like how we can't use our own knowledge because we aren't trained, and yet he is qualified to judge the forensics of weapons that both produce firestorms via completely different methods.
Still, there are a fewthings missing from this conspiracy: the iron-proof continuance of the suppression of this truth decades after the censorship ended (and just last year a veteran I knew before he passed away who served occupation duty in Japan showed me some photos that he had illegally taken of refugees), the unanimous consent of every power on the planet to hush it up, and an actual motive for the entire thing.
Secrets leak far too easily, especially in America. The resources needed to create, maintain, and cover up such a conspiracy don't appear and disappear into thin air. For a hundred secrete bombers to pound Hiroshima that day, would need to silence the shipyard workers who loaded the bombers into transports, the entire airbases from which they launched (and all the supply personel who bring supplies for 100 bombers where none should be), the entire Allied naval forces with Radar who would see such a fleet of bombers flying, the entire Japanese military and civilian fishermen who could spot and detect such a fleet, the entire Soviet intelligence and military apparatus, doubtless the few Chinese who would know about it, every person on the mainland but not in the cities who saw the fleet of bombers, every survivor (known or not), and you need to do all this for 60 years. Considering how many people that is that would never come to the attention of the American censor police, it would be the largest, most advanced, and most successful public conspiracy in history... which somehow can be disproven by their own photos in the hands of a most distinctively not-expert. Any of those hundreds of thousands of people could have brought that conspiracy down after the imperfect censorship was lifted...
But no one has, decades later.
Second, every nation in the world has to be in on this conspiracy after a point. Every nation that has nuclear power, that has acquired nuclear weapons, that has had a nuclear weapon on its soil, that has a halfway competant intelligence service, all need to be in on it. And most of these countries hate various nuclear powers, and would love nothing else other than to knock the props out from under them on the world stage. And yet the Soviets agree to this conspiracy that only helps the Americans for the next five to six years? The Chinese agree to this conspiracy that only helps the Americans and the Russians? India agrees to this conspiracy when they have other areas that they could spend their money on? Pakistan is in on it? Iran is in on it, and is risking a ruinous conventional war over what should be, if our friend here is to be believed, physcially impossible? It would take one physicist from any of these powers to realize physical impossibilities of something, and suddenly the greatest strength of their rivals would be gone.
But no physicist has stepped forward, to challenge the mathmatically provable or disprovable.
And finally, we miss a reason. There has to be a motive for the conspiracy.
Money is not enough: the Manhattan Project, as resource intensive as it was, was never more than a fraction of the US's war effort. It was started on the possibility it might work, but on the understanding that it might not be militarily feasible (as the Germans assumed). If it doesn't work, it proves that the fears that the Germans getting it are unfounded and future congressmen ask some nasty questions of some mid-level buerecrats. The costs to setup and maintain the cover up would rival and eventually dwarf the costs of the project itself, with huge diplomatic consequences (domestic and foreign) should it be leaked by one insignificant peon with a grudge.
It certainly wasn't out of shame. The US had been firebombing for awhile now, and took certain towns off the target lists for the express purpose of showing the power of a nuke. The US leadership didn't feel any need to try and sell killing thousands with a single bomb, when they had been doing it with thousands of bombs already.
It couldn't have been as a political bluff, because any rival power could have pushed on their spies to uncover it, their physicists to disprove it, and simply laughed at the nuclear threat. You can argue that allies might go along, but they wouldn't then spend millions on their own copies. You can suggest that some powers might be bribed, but that not only increases the list of people included in the coverup manyfold but also gives the bribed person massive power over you by threatening to reveal the truth.
Oh, and Hendryk, I wouldn't be so quick to try and use our dear friend here as the proof of why homeschooling is wrong. He's admitted to personally having been public-schooled and that he came up with his beliefs after his education, not that they were instilled into him from the start.
Similarly, I like how we can't use our own knowledge because we aren't trained, and yet he is qualified to judge the forensics of weapons that both produce firestorms via completely different methods.
Still, there are a fewthings missing from this conspiracy: the iron-proof continuance of the suppression of this truth decades after the censorship ended (and just last year a veteran I knew before he passed away who served occupation duty in Japan showed me some photos that he had illegally taken of refugees), the unanimous consent of every power on the planet to hush it up, and an actual motive for the entire thing.
Secrets leak far too easily, especially in America. The resources needed to create, maintain, and cover up such a conspiracy don't appear and disappear into thin air. For a hundred secrete bombers to pound Hiroshima that day, would need to silence the shipyard workers who loaded the bombers into transports, the entire airbases from which they launched (and all the supply personel who bring supplies for 100 bombers where none should be), the entire Allied naval forces with Radar who would see such a fleet of bombers flying, the entire Japanese military and civilian fishermen who could spot and detect such a fleet, the entire Soviet intelligence and military apparatus, doubtless the few Chinese who would know about it, every person on the mainland but not in the cities who saw the fleet of bombers, every survivor (known or not), and you need to do all this for 60 years. Considering how many people that is that would never come to the attention of the American censor police, it would be the largest, most advanced, and most successful public conspiracy in history... which somehow can be disproven by their own photos in the hands of a most distinctively not-expert. Any of those hundreds of thousands of people could have brought that conspiracy down after the imperfect censorship was lifted...
But no one has, decades later.
Second, every nation in the world has to be in on this conspiracy after a point. Every nation that has nuclear power, that has acquired nuclear weapons, that has had a nuclear weapon on its soil, that has a halfway competant intelligence service, all need to be in on it. And most of these countries hate various nuclear powers, and would love nothing else other than to knock the props out from under them on the world stage. And yet the Soviets agree to this conspiracy that only helps the Americans for the next five to six years? The Chinese agree to this conspiracy that only helps the Americans and the Russians? India agrees to this conspiracy when they have other areas that they could spend their money on? Pakistan is in on it? Iran is in on it, and is risking a ruinous conventional war over what should be, if our friend here is to be believed, physcially impossible? It would take one physicist from any of these powers to realize physical impossibilities of something, and suddenly the greatest strength of their rivals would be gone.
But no physicist has stepped forward, to challenge the mathmatically provable or disprovable.
And finally, we miss a reason. There has to be a motive for the conspiracy.
Money is not enough: the Manhattan Project, as resource intensive as it was, was never more than a fraction of the US's war effort. It was started on the possibility it might work, but on the understanding that it might not be militarily feasible (as the Germans assumed). If it doesn't work, it proves that the fears that the Germans getting it are unfounded and future congressmen ask some nasty questions of some mid-level buerecrats. The costs to setup and maintain the cover up would rival and eventually dwarf the costs of the project itself, with huge diplomatic consequences (domestic and foreign) should it be leaked by one insignificant peon with a grudge.
It certainly wasn't out of shame. The US had been firebombing for awhile now, and took certain towns off the target lists for the express purpose of showing the power of a nuke. The US leadership didn't feel any need to try and sell killing thousands with a single bomb, when they had been doing it with thousands of bombs already.
It couldn't have been as a political bluff, because any rival power could have pushed on their spies to uncover it, their physicists to disprove it, and simply laughed at the nuclear threat. You can argue that allies might go along, but they wouldn't then spend millions on their own copies. You can suggest that some powers might be bribed, but that not only increases the list of people included in the coverup manyfold but also gives the bribed person massive power over you by threatening to reveal the truth.
Oh, and Hendryk, I wouldn't be so quick to try and use our dear friend here as the proof of why homeschooling is wrong. He's admitted to personally having been public-schooled and that he came up with his beliefs after his education, not that they were instilled into him from the start.
There's far more money in conventional weapons than in nuclear weapons. There's more of them, they need to be replaced quicker, and it's actually done by private corporations (who pocket the money). The Manhattan Project was a government, not a private, R+D project. The people who got money were salaried scientists and the construction companies who build the buildings with few questions asked, not various military corporations like Northrup Gruman. Though masses of money went into the Project, it wasn't in the way that filters to the military-industrial complex.
Furthermore, the money needed to maintain the hoax doesn't go to the MIC at all. It's dedicated to government workers and censorers. Propping up and maintaining a nuclear hoax is against the MIC's profits, not for.
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