List of Popes and Kings

The little spanish state near france is actually the Kingdom of Navarre - no one said it was conquered or annexed, and I thought it would be a nice... butterfly to our world.

Actually, it was mentioned that Navarre was annexed to Aragon.

[58] After the death of Antonio, Juan V of Aragon proved to be the next of kin. Already King of Navarre and Sicily, Juan proved to be an important figure in Iberian politics.

There we go.

Also, the Polish Emperors are the Kings of Bohemia.
 
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Nice maps and flags! :cool:
Yay, thanks!
Actually, it was mentioned that Navarre was annexed to Aragon.



There we go.

Also, the Polish Emperors are the Kings of Bohemia.

Ha, you're right - I missed the Navarre part... I'll update the map soon.

And a preview of the flags I've done so far:

kings_1775_flags.png
 
The flags are looking good.

Just wondering... Why the yellow cross in the French flag?

This one is rather a filling flag for now, actually.
One of the french flags pre-revolution was a white cross over a blue field; as the last three french dinasties had Blue and Gold as their main colours, I thought it would be a valid compromise to have a yellow cross over a blue field, with a fleur-de-lis in the canton... the main problem, though, it that it will be far, far too similar with the flag of Albion, which is a union between St. Andrew's cross (white saltire on blue) and St. Edward the Confessor's cross (golden cross on blue).

Explaining the other flags:
-Russia: coat-of-arms of Suzdal, which is quite imperial already, with their colours;
-Italy: St. George's/ St. Ambrose's cross, with two green quadrants (the colour of the italian Iron Crown) and the Medici coat of arms in the middle - not very creative, I know...
-Scandinavia: scandinavian cross with the Romanov colours, in analogy to Russia OTL.
-Poland: Poland-Bohemia coat-of-arms over the flag.
-Hungary: coat-of-arms of the Mojmir-Arpad dinasty (Arpad stripes/Wallachian coat of arms)

I think I'm using too many crosses, but it's hard to find non-religious national symbols with a POD that old... suggestions are very welcome!
 
[doubleposting again...]
I've tried to create a new french flag, but more similar to the Polish and Hispanian ones, rather than the English one.

First, the flag I used in the map: a golden cross on blue, with a fleur-de-lis in the canton:
francekings.png


Then, a bicolour flag with the House of Champagne's coat-of-arms (with Burgundy and Capet quadrants):
francekings2.png


And finally, the same kind of flag, but with the French coat-of-arms, in a similar shape to the Hispanian: the arms of France proper, Flanders, Burgundy and Brittanny:
francekings3.png


Another proposal could be (yet) another cross, in this case Saint Louis' or Saint Antoine's one, that obviously did not exist IOTL... but, again, a blue flag with a golden cross will not have enough contrast with St Edward's banner of England.

What do you think?
 
Trovador said:
suggestions are very welcome!

The three proposal for the french flag you did are not bad... But here are some proposals I would like to make. Sadly, I can't show them all as I'm not so good as a flag maker.

1°) A Blue cross on a white font, with the coat of arms of the French king upon the cross. White was often used among the monarchists in France.

2°) A simple blue flag with the coat of arms of the French king in the center. Around the coat of arms, three fleur-de-lys forming a triangle (one under the coat of arms, one on the left and the last one on the right).

3°) A white flag with a Blue cross and a fleur-de-lys in each one of the four quadrants.

4°) Last proposal, a variation on the first flag you made with a fleur de lys in each one of the quadrants.
proposalfrance01.png
 
I've actually done some slight tweaking of the map to make it fit a little better. Especially in the German States area. If I may?

Also, I've got a some changes to the Italian Wars, and rough outlines of the Colonial Wars/Wars of Betrayal and Bainbridge Wars. So that things can all make sense. Or as much sense as possible.
 
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Space Oddity said:
I've actually done some slight tweaking of the map to make it fit a little better. Especially in the German States area. If I may?

I'm not the one who did the maps, but I'm not opposed to see what you've done. On the contrary, I'd like to see what you did.

Space Oddity said:
Also, I've got a some changes to the Italian Wars, and rough outlines of the Colonial Wars/Wars of Betrayal and Bainbridge Wars. So that things can all make sense. Or as much sense as possible.

Well, if that can help us resolve our continuity problems, then I have no objection on you making them.
 
Here's the map with a key, and notes on the changes...

1 Albion
2 France--France gains a bit of Switzerland, and loses a bit of Languedoc to Hispania.
3 Hispania--gains the aforementioned bit of Languedoc.
4 Papal States--expanded to somewhat older borders. It's less likely to be reduced to the smallish rump state in our world simply because Hispania/Sicily and Italy are both going to want a buffer state.
5 Italy: Loses some territory to the Papal States.
6 Baden: Lost territory loses some area to France and Swabia, but also takes some from Swabia
7 Swabia: Expanded slightly southwards and northwards, but loses a little territory to Baden.
8 Bavaria: Lost some land to Swabia. Also, leaned Austria towards Hungary.
9 Luxembourg: Lost land to Saxony, which didn't seem to be around. Also leaned Frisia towards Scandinavia.
10 Saxony: Created it out of Luxembourg. (More Lower Saxony and Saxony-Anhalt than modern Saxony.)
11 Thuringia: About the same, though gave it a bit of Brandenburg.
12 Brandendburg: Lost area to Poland--it's tough to be sure the Teutonic Knights will even exist in this universe, and if they do, with a more powerful Poland, Grunberg's going to come earlier, and go worse for them. Which means Prussia is going to have a very different history.
13 Scandinavia: The same, though leaned Frisia towards it.
14 Poland: Gained land from Brandenburg.
15 Hungary: Removed what I took to be Albania, which will not exist in this universe. Combined Moldavia and Rumania--the entire 'divide and conquer' Ottoman strategy that lead to the two nations isn't going to happen here. Leaned Austria towards it.
16 Russia: the same.
17 Seljuk Rum Sultanate: the same.

I'll give the ideas for the various wars in the next post.

kings_1775.png
 
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Okay, here are my rough ideas on the ITALIAN WARS, the war that first demonstrated to Europe that things were getting a bit more complicated then the old days.

1721--FRANCE lauches an attack on the new nation of ITALY, citing old treaties with Genoa. It is joined by SWABIA, and BADEN, with BAVARIA and HISPANIA both rejecting FRANCE'S offer of alliance. (Bavaria really isn't too hot on the whole war thing, Hispania doesn't like Italy, but doesn't like France either.)
1722--The defense of Italy is quickly taken up by HUNGARY, ALBION, LUXEMBOURG and BAVARIA. BADEN pulls out. SCANDINAVIA, chomping at the bit to show that it's a major power, joins on the side of FRANCE, and brings in its allies SAXONY, THURINGIA, and BRANDENBURG, most of whom are either hoping to establish territorial ambitions, or keep the present balance of power.
1723--BADEN, now that some of its worst enemies are now fighting for FRANCE, reenters the war on the side of ITALY.
1724--POLAND and RUSSIA enter the war, largely because they don't like SCANDINAVIA.
1727--The whole bloody affair ends with minor territorial gains for a handful of powers. SWABIA loses much of its southernly territory to BADEN and BAVARIA, and a few nothern provinces to LUXEMBOURG. SCANDINAVIA loses FINLAND to RUSSIA. FRANCE pays reparations to ITALY.
 
Again, these are just ideas and a rough outline, with changes to be made as needed.

The Great Realignment

France reestablishes its old alliances with Baden and Bavaria, as well as forging new ones with Saxony and Thuringia.

Luxembourg strengthens its ties to Brandenburg and Albion and forges new ones with Swabia.

Scandinavia is increasingly isolated.

Italy grows closer to the Eastern Empires, especially Hungary, becoming the first western nation to "Easternize" its government.


Colonial Wars/Wars of Betrayal


1775: William V of Albion (House Monmouth-von Luxembourg), claiming that Albion's interests in Terrarica are threatened, launches attacks on Hispania's and France's colonies in North Terrarica. William has the assurance of his uncle, Otto XIII of Luxembourg, that Luxembourg will declare war on France, distracting them. This will leave Hispania as the only opponent able to fully commit to the war in the colonies--and as Hispania would be fighting for its significantly less valuable northern colonies, it will be far more likely to give in shortly. (None of this is half as clever as William thinks it is, but he's a thwarted, bitter man with mother issues, eager to leave his mark on history.) Luxembourg does declare war on France--but concentrates its efforts on Saxony and Thuringia, leaving France quite free to concentrate on Albion indeed.

1776: Baden and Bavaria declare war on Luxembourg and its allies. This turns out to mean they invade Swabia while engaing in token efforts to assist Saxony and Thuringia. This brings in Brandenburg, which joins in the attack on Saxony and Thuringia. In the colonies, Albion does rather well for a while, as France and Hispania are not coordinating their efforts, nor are they committing too many resources.

1777: Poland declares war on Brandenburg. This forces the German state to put forth more effort in its defense, leaving Luxembourg to the lion's share of Saxony and Thuringia. The colonial situation begins to reverse, as numbers start to tell, and Hispania and (especially) France begin to throw more into the fight.

1778: Scandinavia moves to "protect" its "allies in Frisia", which, amazingly means placing more troops there, some of which find themselves in the north of Saxony, somehow. By this point, the "war" in the three middle provinces is almost entirely between their would-be conquerers, each of whom has found a collection of minor nobles and cities that they claim to be championing. In the colonies, things take a turn for the worse for Albion, as France and Hispania finally swallow their differences, and agree to work together.

1779: Brandenburg surrenders to Poland, agreeing to cede some land in the east to the Empire, then enlists Poland's support in the middle provinces, hoping to contain former ally Luxembourg's growing power. The colonial situation is dragging on--Albion is losing but its managing to make losing a long slow haul for all involved.

1780: By this time, the Wars of Betrayal and the Colonial Wars are barely connected, one a far-ranging battle for overseas empire, the other a squalid little struggle to grab as much of the weaker German states as they can. The two Houses of Wettin formally surrender to Luxembourg, becoming vassals, while in Swabia, Frederick V of Hohenstaufen simplifies everything by dying without a clear heir. Meanwhile, the Colonial Wars drag on. The Albion situation degrades further when several colonies rebel and side with the French.

1781: The wars in the German States have largely settled down to the occasional minor skirmish. The major action there is now diplomatic, with Luxembourg granting minor provinces of Saxony and Thuringia to Brandenburg, Poland, and Scandinavia--or more exactly to Scandinavia's puppet Frisia--so it can keep the majority of both, while Swabia has been divided between Baden and Bavaria, with Luxembourg getting a few northern provinces.

1782: The war in the colonies is all but finished, with Albion hanging on to a handful of colonies. William is finally forced to admit defeat and go to the bargaining tabel.

1783: The colonial Wars formally end, and Hispania, France and Albion acknowledge the "new German situation". Many whisper of secret agreements between some of the participants in the Wars of Betrayal--especially Baden, Bavaria and Luxembourg.

END RESULTS

ALBION: Loses its colonies in North Terrarica, keeping a few of the Azúcar Isles (IOTL Carribean). Albion now faces massive debt, a heavily damaged navy, and an utter sense of international isolation that comes to dominate its politics in the future--"Albion against the world". King William drinks himself to death, and is succeeded by his less than able son Harold.

FRANCE: Gains much of North Terrarica, but the price tag has been heavy. Demands for reform will dominate France in the future.

HISPANIA: Masters of the Atlantic, but like France, facing massive debts, and demands for reform. On the reform issue, unlike France, Hispania refuses to budge an inch. This begins an almost century and a half long struggle to maintain Hispanic autocracy that will ultimately end in tragedy.

LUXEMBOURG: Wins a great deal of territory, but becomes viewed as the great traitor of Europe. Plants the seeds of Luxembourg's inevitable decline.

BADEN/BAVARIA: Divide Swabia between themselves. Considered less odious than Luxembourg, but this has tainted them.

BRANDENBURG: Has lost territory in the east, but gained it in the west. It has also done a complete volte face on centuries' of foreign policy. Now instead of looking to either Luxembourg or Scandinavia to protect it from Poland, it looks to Poland to protect it from Luxembourg and Scandinavia. This leads to a growing Easternization in Brandenburg politics, as it becomes the first German State to elect a Senate--or Reichstag, as it calls it.

SCANDINAVIA: Gains a little territory. Sadly, this is not enough to assuage the Kingdom's rather prickly sense of its own importance. In the immediate future, the nation's politics will continue to be dominated by their need to show themselves a great power.

POLAND: The Empire gains some territory and a great deal of influence over Brandenburg, as well as a growing interest in the German states.

SAXONY/THURINGIA: Conquered, though the Wettins remain in power as servants of Luxembourg.

SWABIA: Conquered, and very much divided. If any state has lost the most, it's Swabia.
 
Awesome,

Lets start a new list

Monarchs of France

987-996:Hugh Capet (Capetian Dynasty)


Monarchs of Castille

1037-1065: Ferdinand I "The Great" (Jimenez Dynasty)


Holy Roman Emperors

912-973:Otto I (Ottonian Dynasty)


Monarchs of England:

1066-1085:King William "The Conquerer" (Norman Dynasty)



Popes

1061-1073:Alexander II, Holy Roman Empire
 
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