List of monarchs III

Darn. Too slow.

No, I was too tired anyway, but I was just about to ask if I could stake a claim just seconds before you posted.
Oh, do you have a precise idea? I was looking up the Japanese imperial family tree

My proposal would be to have Princess Yoshiko inherit the Japanese throne in 1779 instead of the man who became her husband, but if you have another idea feel free to suggest it :)
 
Last edited:
Oh, do you have a precise idea? I was looking up the Japanese imperial family tree

My proposal would be to have Princess Yoshiko inherit the Japanese throne in 1779 instead of the man who became her husband, but if you have another idea feel free to suggest it :)
Just a POD: Charles Orlando, son of King Charles VIII and Anne of Brittany surviving.
 
What if ... Charles VIII and Anne of Britanny's first son lived?

King of France
1507-1534 Charles IX "Orlando" of France [1]

[1]
Charles Orland was the first and only son of Charles VIII of France and Anne of Britanny, and one of their two children to live to adulthood with his sister Anne. He was born in 1492 and became the Dauphin to the French throne. Because of his father's absence and his mother's waning health after the late birth of Anne, he was mostly raised between Amboise with his godmother Jeanne de Laval and Moulins with his aunt Anne de Beaujeu and her husband. His father was often at war, mostly in Italy, where his three expeditions earned the French control over Milan through the Louis D'Orléans and some influence over Savoy, but at the cost of many lives. Charles Orland was really marked by the death of one of his older friends at court, Charles de Bourbon, who died in the Battle of Florence in 1506, imprinting on him a very negative idea of war. His godmother taught him all about French and Italian literature, influencing him in his future patronage.

He rose to the throne in June 1507, after his father died from horrible convulsions. His mother died in the same year, and his sister inherited the throne of Britanny, conforming to the clauses of the marriage between their parents. She got engaged to Ferdinand II of Naples, in order to appease the situation in Italy, and ensuring a match that benefited her brother without creating a potential dangerous alliance like the Austrian match that had thrown the diplomacy of her mother into disarray: Anne II was firmly on her brother's side, and did everything in her power to tie every loose Briton end with a French string.

The young King's ordre du jour in 1507 was simple: clean up his father's mess. His father had a political vision: he wanted to shoot an arrow through the Mediterranean that did have to transperce Naples in order to lodge itself deeply in the Ottomans' heart, before landing in Jerusalem. This vision, however, was essentially built on a muddy foundation of wishful thinking, and his son, already digusted from war by the death of his confident Charles de Bourbon only one year prior. He got engaged to Yolande, sister of the heirless Duke of Savoie, five years older than he was. The King's vision was not directed towards the East like his father's, but towards a consolidation of the French territory: he wanted to ensure peace and exchanges between France and the rest of Europe, and especially with Italy. To this end, he wanted to create a solid, cohesive estate in Italy (for which he married the unofficial heir apparent to the throne of Savoy and waited for his heirless and married to an unfertile wife uncle to die, ensuring a rich, cohesive and connected estate from Lyon to Milan and Arles to Crémone. With this powerful and legitimate collection of territories, the quarel with Naples squashed and burried through his sister's alliance (especially as the King of Aragon was starting to show displeasure at the idea of Naples belonging to this bastard line instead of them), he hoped to make France too big of a piece to chew, while being resolute to keep polite relations with everyone.

Being quite a seductive diplomat, he managed to sweet talk the Queen of Castille into an arbitration with her husband and her sisters: there, he let the conflicting interests of Juana, Philipp von Hapsburg, the Queen of Portugal and the still unmarried Princess of Aragon collide, while attempting to reconcile them to France if not to each others. It was thought for a very long time that he had masterfully played his hand to lead to an uneasy Regency by the for now unmarried Catherine of Aragon, designated to last until a potential marriage, making her, for now, a mostly neutral actor, effectively depriving the Hapsburgs of a major asset while making himself look like the neutral, benevolent, smiling arbiter of peace for his time. In fact, from a diary of his favourite, Lucien d'Albignac, retrieved in archives in Amboise in 1967, show that even to his most intimate partners, he declared to be very disappointed for the poor Queen who did seem quite lucid to him, especially taking into account her difficult situation, and that he wished he could have done more to satisfy everyone with a fair distribution.

It was also this sort of earnest enthusiasm and benevolence that led him to be the patron of many prominent thinkers, poets and writers at first, and then inventors, sculptors, painters, ... among them Leonardo da Vinci, the painter Raphaelle, botanist Giovanni Manardo, ... he saw the early beginning of his reign as an invitation to a long-term and ambitious vision for his Kingdom. He wanted to create a strong base, and has the charisma to invite to reflexion, but sadly little of the actual administrative competence to make it happen.

When Louis d'Orléans, Duke of Orléans and Milan, died in 1527, he inherited the possessions of his uncle, and toured his newly acquired estates in Italy to meet his new subjects, promising to protect their way of life, and even inhabited Milan for a few months. He integrated much of his uncle's administration and personel to his own Court, hoping to acquire new talents, and recruited a bilingual secretary from Milan, André d'Alciat, for his correspondance with Italy. When in 1537 Charles II of Savoy died without issue from his legitimate wife Jeanne of Naples, Yolande, a very ambitious woman, claimed the Duchy for herself, against her brothers who were all excommunicated, ordinated to some ecclesiastical positions, or born illegitimate, and gained approval from the Pope and her illegitimate-born brother René. Happy to have time away from his wife, and her to finally own this Duchy she had seen falling from hands to hands for years without ever arriving in hers until now, the King and Queen were both very personally satisfied of this development.

The royal couple, despite the both's much more pronounced interest in older men than each other, was quite a harmonious household, and they managed to sire four children: _______________________________. The King died at the age of 42, being remembered in his Court for his charming personnality and Italian mannerisms, and was even more fondly remembered by his subjects who were glad to finally be awarded a generation without wars, without conscription and with lower taxes. After his death, he throne of France went to ________________.
 
What if ... Charles VIII and Anne of Britanny's first son lived?

King of France
1507-1534: Charles IX "Orlando" of France (House of Valois) [1]
1534-1550: Louis XII of France (House of Valois)


[1] Charles Orland was the first and only son of Charles VIII of France and Anne of Britanny, and one of their two children to live to adulthood with his sister Anne. He was born in 1492 and became the Dauphin to the French throne. Because of his father's absence and his mother's waning health after the late birth of Anne, he was mostly raised between Amboise with his godmother Jeanne de Laval and Moulins with his aunt Anne de Beaujeu and her husband. His father was often at war, mostly in Italy, where his three expeditions earned the French control over Milan through the Louis D'Orléans and some influence over Savoy, but at the cost of many lives. Charles Orland was really marked by the death of one of his older friends at court, Charles de Bourbon, who died in the Battle of Florence in 1506, imprinting on him a very negative idea of war. His godmother taught him all about French and Italian literature, influencing him in his future patronage.

He rose to the throne in June 1507, after his father died from horrible convulsions. His mother died in the same year, and his sister inherited the throne of Britanny, conforming to the clauses of the marriage between their parents. She got engaged to Ferdinand II of Naples, in order to appease the situation in Italy, and ensuring a match that benefited her brother without creating a potential dangerous alliance like the Austrian match that had thrown the diplomacy of her mother into disarray: Anne II was firmly on her brother's side, and did everything in her power to tie every loose Briton end with a French string.

The young King's ordre du jour in 1507 was simple: clean up his father's mess. His father had a political vision: he wanted to shoot an arrow through the Mediterranean that did have to transperce Naples in order to lodge itself deeply in the Ottomans' heart, before landing in Jerusalem. This vision, however, was essentially built on a muddy foundation of wishful thinking, and his son, already digusted from war by the death of his confident Charles de Bourbon only one year prior. He got engaged to Yolande, sister of the heirless Duke of Savoie, five years older than he was. The King's vision was not directed towards the East like his father's, but towards a consolidation of the French territory: he wanted to ensure peace and exchanges between France and the rest of Europe, and especially with Italy. To this end, he wanted to create a solid, cohesive estate in Italy (for which he married the unofficial heir apparent to the throne of Savoy and waited for his heirless and married to an unfertile wife uncle to die, ensuring a rich, cohesive and connected estate from Lyon to Milan and Arles to Crémone. With this powerful and legitimate collection of territories, the quarel with Naples squashed and burried through his sister's alliance (especially as the King of Aragon was starting to show displeasure at the idea of Naples belonging to this bastard line instead of them), he hoped to make France too big of a piece to chew, while being resolute to keep polite relations with everyone.

Being quite a seductive diplomat, he managed to sweet talk the Queen of Castille into an arbitration with her husband and her sisters: there, he let the conflicting interests of Juana, Philipp von Hapsburg, the Queen of Portugal and the still unmarried Princess of Aragon collide, while attempting to reconcile them to France if not to each others. It was thought for a very long time that he had masterfully played his hand to lead to an uneasy Regency by the for now unmarried Catherine of Aragon, designated to last until a potential marriage, making her, for now, a mostly neutral actor, effectively depriving the Hapsburgs of a major asset while making himself look like the neutral, benevolent, smiling arbiter of peace for his time. In fact, from a diary of his favourite, Lucien d'Albignac, retrieved in archives in Amboise in 1967, show that even to his most intimate partners, he declared to be very disappointed for the poor Queen who did seem quite lucid to him, especially taking into account her difficult situation, and that he wished he could have done more to satisfy everyone with a fair distribution.

It was also this sort of earnest enthusiasm and benevolence that led him to be the patron of many prominent thinkers, poets and writers at first, and then inventors, sculptors, painters, ... among them Leonardo da Vinci, the painter Raphaelle, botanist Giovanni Manardo, ... he saw the early beginning of his reign as an invitation to a long-term and ambitious vision for his Kingdom. He wanted to create a strong base, and has the charisma to invite to reflexion, but sadly little of the actual administrative competence to make it happen.

When Louis d'Orléans, Duke of Orléans and Milan, died in 1527, he inherited the possessions of his uncle, and toured his newly acquired estates in Italy to meet his new subjects, promising to protect their way of life, and even inhabited Milan for a few months. He integrated much of his uncle's administration and personel to his own Court, hoping to acquire new talents, and recruited a bilingual secretary from Milan, André d'Alciat, for his correspondance with Italy. When in 1537 Charles II of Savoy died without issue from his legitimate wife Jeanne of Naples, Yolande, a very ambitious woman, claimed the Duchy for herself, against her brothers who were all excommunicated, ordinated to some ecclesiastical positions, or born illegitimate, and gained approval from the Pope and her illegitimate-born brother René. Happy to have time away from his wife, and her to finally own this Duchy she had seen falling from hands to hands for years without ever arriving in hers until now, the King and Queen were both very personally satisfied of this development.

The royal couple, despite the both's much more pronounced interest in older men than each other, was quite a harmonious household, and they managed to sire four children: Louis (B. 1510), Anne (B. 1512), Charles, Duke of Orleans (B. 1514), and Henri, Duke of Berry (B. 1517). The King died at the age of 42, being remembered in his Court for his charming personnality and Italian mannerisms, and was even more fondly remembered by his subjects who were glad to finally be awarded a generation without wars, without conscription and with lower taxes. After his death, he throne of France went to Louis XII.

[2]

Louis XII ascended the throne in 1534 at the age of 24. At the time of his ascension Louis was a widower, with his wife, Princess Margaret (B. 1508), having died the previous year while giving birth to their third child, who died not long after their Mother. With no sons, Louis was eager to remarry, and would do so the next year when he married the Neapolitian Princess (and his cousin) Giovanna (B. 1517), which renewed the French alliance with Naples. The two would get along well throughout the ups and downs of Louis's reign and would share 5 children.

Louis continued his Father's cultural policies, hiring and sponsoring many artists, poets, playwrights, and writers. This would inevitably lead to him coming into contact with renowned reformer, John Calvin. John like Martin Luther and Philip Melanchthon believed that the time of the Catholic Church had come to an end, and began preaching a new Christian sect known as Calvinism. Louis took an interest in this new sect, and would meet with John in 1538, to discuss theology with him. After several debates between the two, Louis, and his family converted to Calvinism, and were baptised in the Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris, by John Calvin himself.

Some French Nobles, such as the Duke of Bourbon, Alencon, and Berry and the Count of Auveregne, Boulogne, Angouleme and St Pol, agreed with Calvin and the King and converted as well. Others such as the Count of Foix, Montpensier, and Duke of Nemours and Orleans, opposed the King and would raise against him in 1540, in what would become known as the First War of French Religion. The rebellious nobles wanted the King to revert to Catholicism and were supported by England and Spain, who sought to antagonise the French.

Louis would prove himself quite the general however, and would lead an army against the nobles, defeating them battle after battle. Many took this as a sign of Divine Backing and abandoned the Catholic Cause, while others fought on. Their efforts would prove futile however and in 1542, the Duke of Orleans would be killed in the Battle of Albi. With that the first War of French Religion came to an end.

Louis would soon begin instigating Calvin's reforms, weakening the power of the Church, reforming their practices, and introducing new ones, most notably the concepts of Predestination, a Vernacular Bible, and allowing the Clergy to marry. John Calvin was also appointed to the role of Archbishop of Reims, and would later crown Louis's successor _______.

In 1545, France would be invaded by England and Spain, who claimed they were invading in the name of the Pope. Louis would raise his armies to fight the invaders, and would personally lead a force to attack Calais, the last English possession on the continent. After a brutal and gruelling 500 day siege, which saw no more than 4 relief attempts by the English, Calais fell to Louis, who entered it in triumph. It was soon followed up by the French victory at the Naval Battle of Wight, which saw 34 English ships destroyed.

Meanwhile, thing were going less well on the Spanish front. The Duke of Berry was killed in battle by the Spanish, with his Dukedom being inherited by his son. The city of Toulouse and Bordeaux were also being besieged, with English forces assisting the Spanish. Louis would march down south with his army to stop them, and would request Neapolitan assistance. Naples would accept and would donate 20 ships and 10,000 Gold coins to the French cause. From 1547 to 1550, Louis fought the English and French in several battles, winning some and losing others. By the time of his death he managed to relieve Bordeaux and kick the English and Spanish out of Gascony, but failed to relieve Toulouse, which fell to the Spanish in 1549.

In early 1550, Louis would contract smallpox and would die on March 29th. He would be succeeded by ______.
 
Episodes:​

11. The Peacemaker- The first episode of the second set picks up with the surprising death of King Percy and Edward IV's reversal of all his policies, making peace with France and Wales, by extending them the full rights of the English and creating a Duchy for Powys for the former rebel Owain Glyndŵr.
kenneth-branagh-signed-photo-henry_360_8c8712185b30b7b3942e3d228c48cf1a.jpg

Kenneth Branagh as Edward IV Plantagenet
Congrats @Asharella for this beautiful list. I can't see this particular pic but I suppose it's from Henry V, isn't it?
 
What if ... Charles VIII and Anne of Britanny's first son lived?

King of France
1507-1534: Charles IX "Orlando" of France (House of Valois) [1]
1534-1550: Louis XII of France (House of Valois)


[1] Charles Orland was the first and only son of Charles VIII of France and Anne of Britanny, and one of their two children to live to adulthood with his sister Anne. He was born in 1492 and became the Dauphin to the French throne. Because of his father's absence and his mother's waning health after the late birth of Anne, he was mostly raised between Amboise with his godmother Jeanne de Laval and Moulins with his aunt Anne de Beaujeu and her husband. His father was often at war, mostly in Italy, where his three expeditions earned the French control over Milan through the Louis D'Orléans and some influence over Savoy, but at the cost of many lives. Charles Orland was really marked by the death of one of his older friends at court, Charles de Bourbon, who died in the Battle of Florence in 1506, imprinting on him a very negative idea of war. His godmother taught him all about French and Italian literature, influencing him in his future patronage.

He rose to the throne in June 1507, after his father died from horrible convulsions. His mother died in the same year, and his sister inherited the throne of Britanny, conforming to the clauses of the marriage between their parents. She got engaged to Ferdinand II of Naples, in order to appease the situation in Italy, and ensuring a match that benefited her brother without creating a potential dangerous alliance like the Austrian match that had thrown the diplomacy of her mother into disarray: Anne II was firmly on her brother's side, and did everything in her power to tie every loose Briton end with a French string.

The young King's ordre du jour in 1507 was simple: clean up his father's mess. His father had a political vision: he wanted to shoot an arrow through the Mediterranean that did have to transperce Naples in order to lodge itself deeply in the Ottomans' heart, before landing in Jerusalem. This vision, however, was essentially built on a muddy foundation of wishful thinking, and his son, already digusted from war by the death of his confident Charles de Bourbon only one year prior. He got engaged to Yolande, sister of the heirless Duke of Savoie, five years older than he was. The King's vision was not directed towards the East like his father's, but towards a consolidation of the French territory: he wanted to ensure peace and exchanges between France and the rest of Europe, and especially with Italy. To this end, he wanted to create a solid, cohesive estate in Italy (for which he married the unofficial heir apparent to the throne of Savoy and waited for his heirless and married to an unfertile wife uncle to die, ensuring a rich, cohesive and connected estate from Lyon to Milan and Arles to Crémone. With this powerful and legitimate collection of territories, the quarel with Naples squashed and burried through his sister's alliance (especially as the King of Aragon was starting to show displeasure at the idea of Naples belonging to this bastard line instead of them), he hoped to make France too big of a piece to chew, while being resolute to keep polite relations with everyone.

Being quite a seductive diplomat, he managed to sweet talk the Queen of Castille into an arbitration with her husband and her sisters: there, he let the conflicting interests of Juana, Philipp von Hapsburg, the Queen of Portugal and the still unmarried Princess of Aragon collide, while attempting to reconcile them to France if not to each others. It was thought for a very long time that he had masterfully played his hand to lead to an uneasy Regency by the for now unmarried Catherine of Aragon, designated to last until a potential marriage, making her, for now, a mostly neutral actor, effectively depriving the Hapsburgs of a major asset while making himself look like the neutral, benevolent, smiling arbiter of peace for his time. In fact, from a diary of his favourite, Lucien d'Albignac, retrieved in archives in Amboise in 1967, show that even to his most intimate partners, he declared to be very disappointed for the poor Queen who did seem quite lucid to him, especially taking into account her difficult situation, and that he wished he could have done more to satisfy everyone with a fair distribution.

It was also this sort of earnest enthusiasm and benevolence that led him to be the patron of many prominent thinkers, poets and writers at first, and then inventors, sculptors, painters, ... among them Leonardo da Vinci, the painter Raphaelle, botanist Giovanni Manardo, ... he saw the early beginning of his reign as an invitation to a long-term and ambitious vision for his Kingdom. He wanted to create a strong base, and has the charisma to invite to reflexion, but sadly little of the actual administrative competence to make it happen.

When Louis d'Orléans, Duke of Orléans and Milan, died in 1527, he inherited the possessions of his uncle, and toured his newly acquired estates in Italy to meet his new subjects, promising to protect their way of life, and even inhabited Milan for a few months. He integrated much of his uncle's administration and personel to his own Court, hoping to acquire new talents, and recruited a bilingual secretary from Milan, André d'Alciat, for his correspondance with Italy. When in 1537 Charles II of Savoy died without issue from his legitimate wife Jeanne of Naples, Yolande, a very ambitious woman, claimed the Duchy for herself, against her brothers who were all excommunicated, ordinated to some ecclesiastical positions, or born illegitimate, and gained approval from the Pope and her illegitimate-born brother René. Happy to have time away from his wife, and her to finally own this Duchy she had seen falling from hands to hands for years without ever arriving in hers until now, the King and Queen were both very personally satisfied of this development.

The royal couple, despite the both's much more pronounced interest in older men than each other, was quite a harmonious household, and they managed to sire four children: Louis (B. 1510), Anne (B. 1512), Charles, Duke of Orleans (B. 1514), and Henri, Duke of Berry (B. 1517). The King died at the age of 42, being remembered in his Court for his charming personnality and Italian mannerisms, and was even more fondly remembered by his subjects who were glad to finally be awarded a generation without wars, without conscription and with lower taxes. After his death, he throne of France went to Louis XII.

[2]

Louis XII ascended the throne in 1534 at the age of 24. At the time of his ascension Louis was a widower, with his wife, Princess Margaret (B. 1508), having died the previous year while giving birth to their third child, who died not long after their Mother. With no sons, Louis was eager to remarry, and would do so the next year when he married the Neapolitian Princess (and his cousin) Giovanna (B. 1517), which renewed the French alliance with Naples. The two would get along well throughout the ups and downs of Louis's reign and would share 5 children.

Louis continued his Father's cultural policies, hiring and sponsoring many artists, poets, playwrights, and writers. This would inevitably lead to him coming into contact with renowned reformer, John Calvin. John like Martin Luther and Philip Melanchthon believed that the time of the Catholic Church had come to an end, and began preaching a new Christian sect known as Calvinism. Louis took an interest in this new sect, and would meet with John in 1538, to discuss theology with him. After several debates between the two, Louis, and his family converted to Calvinism, and were baptised in the Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris, by John Calvin himself.

Some French Nobles, such as the Duke of Bourbon, Alencon, and Berry and the Count of Auveregne, Boulogne, Angouleme and St Pol, agreed with Calvin and the King and converted as well. Others such as the Count of Foix, Montpensier, and Duke of Nemours and Orleans, opposed the King and would raise against him in 1540, in what would become known as the First War of French Religion. The rebellious nobles wanted the King to revert to Catholicism and were supported by England and Spain, who sought to antagonise the French.

Louis would prove himself quite the general however, and would lead an army against the nobles, defeating them battle after battle. Many took this as a sign of Divine Backing and abandoned the Catholic Cause, while others fought on. Their efforts would prove futile however and in 1542, the Duke of Orleans would be killed in the Battle of Albi. With that the first War of French Religion came to an end.

Louis would soon begin instigating Calvin's reforms, weakening the power of the Church, reforming their practices, and introducing new ones, most notably the concepts of Predestination, a Vernacular Bible, and allowing the Clergy to marry. John Calvin was also appointed to the role of Archbishop of Reims, and would later crown Louis's successor _______.

In 1545, France would be invaded by England and Spain, who claimed they were invading in the name of the Pope. Louis would raise his armies to fight the invaders, and would personally lead a force to attack Calais, the last English possession on the continent. After a brutal and gruelling 500 day siege, which saw no more than 4 relief attempts by the English, Calais fell to Louis, who entered it in triumph. It was soon followed up by the French victory at the Naval Battle of Wight, which saw 34 English ships destroyed.

Meanwhile, thing were going less well on the Spanish front. The Duke of Berry was killed in battle by the Spanish, with his Dukedom being inherited by his son. The city of Toulouse and Bordeaux were also being besieged, with English forces assisting the Spanish. Louis would march down south with his army to stop them, and would request Neapolitan assistance. Naples would accept and would donate 20 ships and 10,000 Gold coins to the French cause. From 1547 to 1550, Louis fought the English and French in several battles, winning some and losing others. By the time of his death he managed to relieve Bordeaux and kick the English and Spanish out of Gascony, but failed to relieve Toulouse, which fell to the Spanish in 1549.

In early 1550, Louis would contract smallpox and would die on March 29th. He would be succeeded by ______.
Love it, just a small question: what happened to the Catherine of Aragon subplot? Did she just marry Henry VIII like OTL, willingly dumping her power? Or did she attack the son of the person who put her on the throne?
 
Love it, just a small question: what happened to the Catherine of Aragon subplot? Did she just marry Henry VIII like OTL, willingly dumping her power? Or did she attack the son of the person who put her on the throne?
Oops I forgot about that! She probably attacked since given how ultra-Catholic she was in OTL, she'd have lost any respect for Louis after he converted to heresy Calvinism.
 
Top