I noticed a couple of different monarch lists: The Kings of Hispania (@Asharella) and Kings of Portugal (@wwbgdiaslt).
Well, I thought that the future posts should both lists.
Well, I thought that the future posts should both lists.
I noticed a couple of different monarch lists: The Kings of Hispania (@Asharella) and Kings of Portugal (@wwbgdiaslt).
Well, I thought that the future posts should both lists.
because he was a bastard. Ergo no legitimacyWhy would Duarte need to specifically make Manuel II leigitimate so he could succeed him? Portuguese succession was cognatic
My question is why legitimate him when the daughter could have inherited the throne (although by now that can't be changed)because he was a bastard. Ergo no legitimacy
What if Prince Rupert had a legitimate son to be the heir of the Stuart line?
Kings of the United Kingdom of England and Scotland
1714-1718: Frederick I (House of Cumberland) [1]
1718-1764: William IV (House of Cumberland) [2]
1764-1780: William V (House of Wittelsbach-Palatine) [3]
[1] Frederick was the son of Prince Rupert of the Rhine, Duke of Cumberland, and Luise von Degenfeld of Strasbourg. The couple married in 1656 when Luise was the lady in waiting to the wife of Rupert's brother, Charles I Louis, Elector of Palantine. Charles was not happy in his marriage and was pressuring Luise to be his mistress, which she refused. Rupert was visiting his brother, even though he'd thought of England as his home where he'd served his uncle, Charles I, in the Civil War. Rupert and Luise fell in love and against his brother's wishes, the couple married and moved to England to make their home after the Restoration of his cousin, Charles II.
Frederick was born in 1662 after two failed pregnancies and the birth of his older sister, Elizabeth, in 1659. He was named after his paternal grandfather, Frederick of the Palatine, and his sister was named after their paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Stuart the Winter Queen, daugher of James I Stuart. His father died in 1682 when Frederick was 20 and he went from being the Earl of Cumberland to being the Duke of Cumberland.
He was raised a devout Anglican and was a soldier and statesman, serving diplomatically for his second cousins, William and Mary, and then later Anne. When Anne's son died, Parliament passed a law that only Protestants could be heirs to the throne and that meant only the issue of Prince Rupert or of his sister, Sophia of Hanover. By the time he inherited the throne at the age of 52, the Act of Union had united the Kingdoms of England and Scotland into one United Kingdom.
Frederick had married Landgravine Elisabeth Henriëtte of Hesse-Kassel (1661-1730), his second cousin. They had numerous children, many surviving to adulthood, before he became King.
Frederick's reign was short lived as he died in 1718 from what we now believe was lung cancer.
[2] Born 11th May 1689, the eldest son of Frederick, Duke of Cumberland, was named after his third cousin and godfather, William III of England, baptised three days later as William Rupert Frederick by Henry Compton, Bishop of London.
The accession of William and Mary, were enshrined in the Bill of Rights 1689, with their heir presumptive as Anne, Duchess of York and Albany {a}. William, Earl of Cumberland was fourth in line, with Anne still childbearing age and her own son William, Duke of Gloucester, doing well.
His father arranger for Thomas Smith (1615–1702) Bishop of Carlisle, since 1684, graduate of The Queen's College, Oxford and chaplain to King Charles II, to be William’s tutor until Thomas death, when 13 year old William received the final years of tutoring under Nathaniel Crew, 3rd Baron Crew (1633-1721) Bishop of Durham from 1674, graduate of Lincoln College, Oxford and former Clerk of the Closet to Charles II.
In 1693, five year old William joined the "Horse Guards", a miniature army, under the command of his five year old distant cousin, Duke of Gloucester, which started off with 22 boys and ended with 90.
This gave his nickname “Cumberland Will” as well as his love for military, like his father and grandfather.
On the 30 July 1700, 6 days after his cousins birthday party in Windsor Earl William awoke to the news of the Duke of Cumberland’s death and met the coming months in mourning and self reflecting on his own mortality, now he was third in line to the throne with only, aging childless Anne and his father ahead of him.
Two months after the duke of Gloucester’s death, September 1700, Sophia of Hanover, sister of Rupert; met her cousin King William III of England at Het Loo Palace in Apeldoorn, the Netherlands. Sophia had heard that Parliament had passed a law that only Protestants could be heirs to the throne and that meant only the issue of Prince Rupert or herself. Knowing that England would prefer Frederick over her, Sophia persuaded that to stop her son, Georg Ludwig of Hanover contesting the throne, a compromise could be arranged where Frederick’s heir marries her granddaughter, Sophia Dorothea of Hanover.
The proposal was supported by William III and Parliament, as well as his father.
The wedding took place on William, Earl of Cumberland’s 16th birthday in 1705, with 18 year old, Sophia said to be the happiest woman in all of Europe.
Their marriage was an extremely happy one and produced sixteen children.
On 1 August 1714, William was awoken to the news of Queen Anne’s death and the accession of his father to the throne. His wife Sophia and he, were investitured as the new Prince and Princess of Wales.
Although they didn’t hold this title for long, as two years later, his father died and 25 year old, William, became the fourth king of his name.
His reign was only just in its first year when he would see the Jacobite rising in 1715, commanded by the Catholic claimants, James Francis Edward Stuart.
The rising was quickly squashed, with minor English casualties, however it wasn’t the last. Three more attempts would be made during William’s nearly 44 year reign, all failing with the final one seeing the last descendant of James II killed in battle. These were the only military skirmishes that the United Kingdom would see under William’s reign.
In British domestic politics, William was heavily involved, holding regular meetings with parliament, discussing taxes, bills, foreign policy and military appointments openly with members on both side of the country’s two main parties, Torys and Whigs.
Personally William kept no mistresses, preferring the love and company of his wife. Having exercised regularly, ate healthily and drunk little alcohol, William was a figure of good living.
Losing his wife in 1757, came as a hard blow to the king, who slowly began showing his age, physically, while mentally being fine.
His death in February 1764, at the age of 74, came after a short illness during the cold winter storm. Mourned by all he was succeeded by his eldest son; William, Prince of Wales.
[3] William was the third born child of William IV and his wife, but the first to survive infancy. His elder brothers; Robert of Wales (b.&d. 1710) and George William of Wales (b. & d. 1712) both lasted little over a month, and so when William made his first year, it was believed great things were to come.
A different man to his two predecessors, while they embraced English traditions and form, William Louis would embrace his ancestral Palatinate, travelling frequently to the Electorate during his years as Prince of Wales, becoming close to his cousin; Charles III who had ruled the Electorate since the death of his father; Charles II in 1699. it was in 1741 where the sixty year old Charles III named William as his heir, and five years later when William would inherit the Electoral Palatine as Wilhelm I. Following this inheritance, William would argue that the true name of their royal house was Wittelsbach-Palatine, stating that Cumberland was a mere titular duchy as opposed to a family name, and when his grandfather took the throne, the title was absorbed back into the monarchy, bringing an end to it, and so he used the Dynastic name of Wittelsbach-Palatine for the remainder of his life.
With his fathers permission, William IV would marry Maria Ana Francisca of Portugal in 1751, and they would produce four sons and two daughters. Maria Ana would convert.to Anglicanism in 1752, after the birth of their first child. William would rule for sixteen years, and at the age of 65 would pass in his sleep, and the Throne would pass to_________
Cool monarch, but "Wittelsbach-Palatine" isn't a bit redundant (and even somewhat anachronistic)?What if Prince Rupert had a legitimate son to be the heir of the Stuart line?
Kings of the United Kingdom of England and Scotland
1714-1718: Frederick I (House of Cumberland) [1]
1718-1764: William IV (House of Cumberland) [2]
1764-1780: William V (House of Wittelsbach-Palatine) [3]
[1] Frederick was the son of Prince Rupert of the Rhine, Duke of Cumberland, and Luise von Degenfeld of Strasbourg. The couple married in 1656 when Luise was the lady in waiting to the wife of Rupert's brother, Charles I Louis, Elector of Palantine. Charles was not happy in his marriage and was pressuring Luise to be his mistress, which she refused. Rupert was visiting his brother, even though he'd thought of England as his home where he'd served his uncle, Charles I, in the Civil War. Rupert and Luise fell in love and against his brother's wishes, the couple married and moved to England to make their home after the Restoration of his cousin, Charles II.
Frederick was born in 1662 after two failed pregnancies and the birth of his older sister, Elizabeth, in 1659. He was named after his paternal grandfather, Frederick of the Palatine, and his sister was named after their paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Stuart the Winter Queen, daugher of James I Stuart. His father died in 1682 when Frederick was 20 and he went from being the Earl of Cumberland to being the Duke of Cumberland.
He was raised a devout Anglican and was a soldier and statesman, serving diplomatically for his second cousins, William and Mary, and then later Anne. When Anne's son died, Parliament passed a law that only Protestants could be heirs to the throne and that meant only the issue of Prince Rupert or of his sister, Sophia of Hanover. By the time he inherited the throne at the age of 52, the Act of Union had united the Kingdoms of England and Scotland into one United Kingdom.
Frederick had married Landgravine Elisabeth Henriëtte of Hesse-Kassel (1661-1730), his second cousin. They had numerous children, many surviving to adulthood, before he became King.
Frederick's reign was short lived as he died in 1718 from what we now believe was lung cancer.
[2] Born 11th May 1689, the eldest son of Frederick, Duke of Cumberland, was named after his third cousin and godfather, William III of England, baptised three days later as William Rupert Frederick by Henry Compton, Bishop of London.
The accession of William and Mary, were enshrined in the Bill of Rights 1689, with their heir presumptive as Anne, Duchess of York and Albany {a}. William, Earl of Cumberland was fourth in line, with Anne still childbearing age and her own son William, Duke of Gloucester, doing well.
His father arranger for Thomas Smith (1615–1702) Bishop of Carlisle, since 1684, graduate of The Queen's College, Oxford and chaplain to King Charles II, to be William’s tutor until Thomas death, when 13 year old William received the final years of tutoring under Nathaniel Crew, 3rd Baron Crew (1633-1721) Bishop of Durham from 1674, graduate of Lincoln College, Oxford and former Clerk of the Closet to Charles II.
In 1693, five year old William joined the "Horse Guards", a miniature army, under the command of his five year old distant cousin, Duke of Gloucester, which started off with 22 boys and ended with 90.
This gave his nickname “Cumberland Will” as well as his love for military, like his father and grandfather.
On the 30 July 1700, 6 days after his cousins birthday party in Windsor Earl William awoke to the news of the Duke of Cumberland’s death and met the coming months in mourning and self reflecting on his own mortality, now he was third in line to the throne with only, aging childless Anne and his father ahead of him.
Two months after the duke of Gloucester’s death, September 1700, Sophia of Hanover, sister of Rupert; met her cousin King William III of England at Het Loo Palace in Apeldoorn, the Netherlands. Sophia had heard that Parliament had passed a law that only Protestants could be heirs to the throne and that meant only the issue of Prince Rupert or herself. Knowing that England would prefer Frederick over her, Sophia persuaded that to stop her son, Georg Ludwig of Hanover contesting the throne, a compromise could be arranged where Frederick’s heir marries her granddaughter, Sophia Dorothea of Hanover.
The proposal was supported by William III and Parliament, as well as his father.
The wedding took place on William, Earl of Cumberland’s 16th birthday in 1705, with 18 year old, Sophia said to be the happiest woman in all of Europe.
Their marriage was an extremely happy one and produced sixteen children.
On 1 August 1714, William was awoken to the news of Queen Anne’s death and the accession of his father to the throne. His wife Sophia and he, were investitured as the new Prince and Princess of Wales.
Although they didn’t hold this title for long, as two years later, his father died and 25 year old, William, became the fourth king of his name.
His reign was only just in its first year when he would see the Jacobite rising in 1715, commanded by the Catholic claimants, James Francis Edward Stuart.
The rising was quickly squashed, with minor English casualties, however it wasn’t the last. Three more attempts would be made during William’s nearly 44 year reign, all failing with the final one seeing the last descendant of James II killed in battle. These were the only military skirmishes that the United Kingdom would see under William’s reign.
In British domestic politics, William was heavily involved, holding regular meetings with parliament, discussing taxes, bills, foreign policy and military appointments openly with members on both side of the country’s two main parties, Torys and Whigs.
Personally William kept no mistresses, preferring the love and company of his wife. Having exercised regularly, ate healthily and drunk little alcohol, William was a figure of good living.
Losing his wife in 1757, came as a hard blow to the king, who slowly began showing his age, physically, while mentally being fine.
His death in February 1764, at the age of 74, came after a short illness during the cold winter storm. Mourned by all he was succeeded by his eldest son; William, Prince of Wales.
[3] William was the third born child of William IV and his wife, but the first to survive infancy. His elder brothers; Robert of Wales (b.&d. 1710) and George William of Wales (b. & d. 1712) both lasted little over a month, and so when William made his first year, it was believed great things were to come.
A different man to his two predecessors, while they embraced English traditions and form, William Louis would embrace his ancestral Palatinate, travelling frequently to the Electorate during his years as Prince of Wales, becoming close to his cousin; Charles III who had ruled the Electorate since the death of his father; Charles II in 1699. it was in 1741 where the sixty year old Charles III named William as his heir, and five years later when William would inherit the Electoral Palatine as Wilhelm I. Following this inheritance, William would argue that the true name of their royal house was Wittelsbach-Palatine, stating that Cumberland was a mere titular duchy as opposed to a family name, and when his grandfather took the throne, the title was absorbed back into the monarchy, bringing an end to it, and so he used the Dynastic name of Wittelsbach-Palatine for the remainder of his life.
With his fathers permission, William IV would marry Maria Ana Francisca of Portugal in 1751, and they would produce four sons and two daughters. Maria Ana would convert.to Anglicanism in 1752, after the birth of their first child. William would rule for sixteen years, and at the age of 65 would pass in his sleep, and the Throne would pass to_________
The Palatines still considered themselves the seniority branch of the Wittelsbach so it's not hard to imagine a scion of that house using it. And Palatine isn't a place. It's a titular connection, being attached to the region through the prevalence for the title of Count-Palatine being granted. Using Palatine as the sole name for your house would be the same as someone making their royal house "Duke".Cool monarch, but "Wittelsbach-Palatine" isn't a bit redundant (and even somewhat anachronistic)?
As far as I understand (and most royal families in general didn't care for the specific surname they had), the Palatine branches of the House of Wittelsbach had long since not used the original family surname (which is more connected to the Bavarian/Main Catholic branch), with the Rhinnish branches normally using the "Palatinate-original duchy" system (Prince Rupert of the Rhine, for example, was considered of the house of "Palatinate-Simmern", which was the branch holding the electoral title). While the change is understandable, wouldn't it be better to just use "Palatinate"?
While it started from the title of "Count palatine", by the late 17th century the "Palatinate" was considered a region of the Rhineland, and most people (as far as I understand) indentified that branch of the Wittelsbach as "of the Palatinate". For example, the wife of Philip, the Duke of Orléans, Liselotte, was called in the french court "The Madame Palatine"The Palatines still considered themselves the seniority branch of the Wittelsbach so it's not hard to imagine a scion of that house using it. And Palatine isn't a place. It's a titular connection, being attached to the region through the prevalence for the title of Count-Palatine being granted. Using Palatine as the sole name for your house would be the same as someone making their royal house "Duke".
In TTL the Kingdom of England includes Ireland and the formal name is UKofE&SEDIT: Also, @Asharella (now this is just a nitpick so you don't need to care too much), why is the title of the line "Kings of the United Kingdom of England and Scotland?", since (A) the name of the kingdom was "Britain" following the union of crowns (not even an "united kingdom", just "kingdom") and (B) they also held the title of "Kings of Ireland". Although the one can simply be explained by the butterfly effect causing the name of the kingdom to be different (possibly the union
But if the next poster wants to change it that is fine with me.In TTL the Kingdom of England includes Ireland and the formal name is UKofE&S
How? Ireland became an nominally independent state over a century before the PODIn TTL the Kingdom of England includes Ireland and the formal name is UKofE&S