List of Alternate Presidents and PMs II
- Thread starter Asami
- Start date
- Status
From the same (sort of) timeline as my previous post in this thread.
Presidents of the United Socialist States of America (East America):
0. Earl Browder, CPUSA, 1945, Acting President [1]
1. Norman Thomas, Socialist Party of America (SPA), 1946-1954; def. William Z. Foster, CPUSSA [2]
2. William Z. Foster, CPUSSA, 1954-1958; def. Darlington Hoopes, SPA [3]
3. Benjamin J. Davis Jr., CPUSSA, 1958-1962; def. Gus Tyler, SPA [4]
4. Gus Hall, CPUSSA, 1962-1970 (unopposed) [5]
5. Jarvis Tyner, CPUSSA, 1970-1978; def. Louis Fisher, Socialist Labor Party [6]
6. Angela Davis, CPUSSA, 1978-1986; def. Jules Levin, SLP [7]
7. John Batchell, CPUSSA, 1986-1990; def. James Harris, Socialist Workers Party [8]
8. Eugene Debs Smith, CPUSSA, 1990-1995 (unopposed) (first fictional person in this list) [9]
Presidents of the American Socialist Federation (East America):
9. Eugene Debs Smith, 1995-2005, Communist Party of America (unopposed) [9]
10. Jack Reed Smith, 2005-2016, CPA (unopposed) [10]
11. Albert Inkpin Smith, 2016-Present, CPA (unopposed) [11]
[1] OTL leader of CPUSA. Made acting president of USSA after Britannic Union signs the Mississippi-Ohio Agreement with USA. Largely making those rivers into the borders between USA and USSA (other than State of Ohio being in USSA). Acts as caretaker government until new laws are established and elections can be organized.
[2] OTL presidential candidate from SPA. Won the first and the second elections however the SPA's relative moderateness and Americans wish to be more integrated with the rest of the Socialist World (also Minority votes.) led to Communist victory.
[3] OTL leader of CPUSA. Turned USSA towards a more syndicalist economic model. Darlington Hoopes was an OTL presidential candidate from SPA.
[4] Was an African-American lawyer and CPUSA politician and was in city council of NYC. Becomes the first Black President of any "American" Nation (PSA, USA, USSA). Gus Tyler was a labor unionist and author. SPA mostly dies out as their moderateness is unpopular at the time as tensions grow with USA.
[5] OTL longtime leader of CPUSA. Was president during high tensions with USA. In 1967 USA fought a war against PSA and USSA. US Old Northwest was annexed by USSA. War was ended and USSA was a recognized by the International Concord (UN equivalent) as a Great Power. He would also be the "Man Behind the Man" until Batchell got elected.
[6] Hall's running mate in OTL for 72-76. Administration mostly uneventful. Fisher was OTL presidential candidate for SLP in 72. Socialist Labor Party emerges as a more syndicalist (specifically Marxist-De Leonist) alternative for the more orthodox CPUSA.
[7] Hall's running mate in OTL for 80-84. Administration mostly uneventful other than the detonation of the first East American (USSA) Nuclear Bomb in 1984. First female American president. Levin was OTL presidential candidate for SLP in 76. As UBSC loses influence and power SLP became a less popular alternative to CPUSSA.
[8] More recent OTL leader of CPUSA (2014-2019). One of the few presidents that had only a single term. Administration mostly uneventful but unpopular. Control tightened over the government as socialism grows more unpopular. As SLP lost popularity *Trotskyist SWP rose to replace it.
[9] Named after influential American Socialist Eugene V. Debs (Washington DC was also renamed into Debs, District of De Leon after the foundation of the USSA). As control was tightened by his predecessor he was allowed to run unopposed. Bahamas (and Turks and Caicos) changed from a Britannic Syndicalist Commonwealth into a Socialist State. Reformed the USSA with its 20 States into the American Socialist Federation with its 11 Regions. East America is turned into a full dictatorship.
[10] Named after Journalist and Communist Activist (and also a volunteer in the British March Revolution) Jack Reed. After the death of his father Regions of Michigan and Superior rebel under pro-US leadership. Other rebellions follow soon after. The rebellions were eventually crushed in 8 to 9 years. He dies in 2016 with some suspicions.
[11] Jack R. Smith's son Albert I. Smith becomes the president. He is named after the first leader of the Revolutionary Union of Britain. In order to get some good will with rest of the world after the long civil war and brutal crushing of the rebels the mostly quiet Bahamas would be given to the United Kingdom. The ASF would remain an oppressive dictatorship and Albert I. Smith would become known as a flamboyant and eccentric dictator. There has been small improvements in the lives of regular citizens and extremely limited entering of the pop-culture of the capitalist world into the ASF. (He is basically American Kim Jong Un but named after ITTL Lenin.)
Presidents of the United Socialist States of America (East America):
0. Earl Browder, CPUSA, 1945, Acting President [1]
1. Norman Thomas, Socialist Party of America (SPA), 1946-1954; def. William Z. Foster, CPUSSA [2]
2. William Z. Foster, CPUSSA, 1954-1958; def. Darlington Hoopes, SPA [3]
3. Benjamin J. Davis Jr., CPUSSA, 1958-1962; def. Gus Tyler, SPA [4]
4. Gus Hall, CPUSSA, 1962-1970 (unopposed) [5]
5. Jarvis Tyner, CPUSSA, 1970-1978; def. Louis Fisher, Socialist Labor Party [6]
6. Angela Davis, CPUSSA, 1978-1986; def. Jules Levin, SLP [7]
7. John Batchell, CPUSSA, 1986-1990; def. James Harris, Socialist Workers Party [8]
8. Eugene Debs Smith, CPUSSA, 1990-1995 (unopposed) (first fictional person in this list) [9]
Presidents of the American Socialist Federation (East America):
9. Eugene Debs Smith, 1995-2005, Communist Party of America (unopposed) [9]
10. Jack Reed Smith, 2005-2016, CPA (unopposed) [10]
11. Albert Inkpin Smith, 2016-Present, CPA (unopposed) [11]
[1] OTL leader of CPUSA. Made acting president of USSA after Britannic Union signs the Mississippi-Ohio Agreement with USA. Largely making those rivers into the borders between USA and USSA (other than State of Ohio being in USSA). Acts as caretaker government until new laws are established and elections can be organized.
[2] OTL presidential candidate from SPA. Won the first and the second elections however the SPA's relative moderateness and Americans wish to be more integrated with the rest of the Socialist World (also Minority votes.) led to Communist victory.
[3] OTL leader of CPUSA. Turned USSA towards a more syndicalist economic model. Darlington Hoopes was an OTL presidential candidate from SPA.
[4] Was an African-American lawyer and CPUSA politician and was in city council of NYC. Becomes the first Black President of any "American" Nation (PSA, USA, USSA). Gus Tyler was a labor unionist and author. SPA mostly dies out as their moderateness is unpopular at the time as tensions grow with USA.
[5] OTL longtime leader of CPUSA. Was president during high tensions with USA. In 1967 USA fought a war against PSA and USSA. US Old Northwest was annexed by USSA. War was ended and USSA was a recognized by the International Concord (UN equivalent) as a Great Power. He would also be the "Man Behind the Man" until Batchell got elected.
[6] Hall's running mate in OTL for 72-76. Administration mostly uneventful. Fisher was OTL presidential candidate for SLP in 72. Socialist Labor Party emerges as a more syndicalist (specifically Marxist-De Leonist) alternative for the more orthodox CPUSA.
[7] Hall's running mate in OTL for 80-84. Administration mostly uneventful other than the detonation of the first East American (USSA) Nuclear Bomb in 1984. First female American president. Levin was OTL presidential candidate for SLP in 76. As UBSC loses influence and power SLP became a less popular alternative to CPUSSA.
[8] More recent OTL leader of CPUSA (2014-2019). One of the few presidents that had only a single term. Administration mostly uneventful but unpopular. Control tightened over the government as socialism grows more unpopular. As SLP lost popularity *Trotskyist SWP rose to replace it.
[9] Named after influential American Socialist Eugene V. Debs (Washington DC was also renamed into Debs, District of De Leon after the foundation of the USSA). As control was tightened by his predecessor he was allowed to run unopposed. Bahamas (and Turks and Caicos) changed from a Britannic Syndicalist Commonwealth into a Socialist State. Reformed the USSA with its 20 States into the American Socialist Federation with its 11 Regions. East America is turned into a full dictatorship.
[10] Named after Journalist and Communist Activist (and also a volunteer in the British March Revolution) Jack Reed. After the death of his father Regions of Michigan and Superior rebel under pro-US leadership. Other rebellions follow soon after. The rebellions were eventually crushed in 8 to 9 years. He dies in 2016 with some suspicions.
[11] Jack R. Smith's son Albert I. Smith becomes the president. He is named after the first leader of the Revolutionary Union of Britain. In order to get some good will with rest of the world after the long civil war and brutal crushing of the rebels the mostly quiet Bahamas would be given to the United Kingdom. The ASF would remain an oppressive dictatorship and Albert I. Smith would become known as a flamboyant and eccentric dictator. There has been small improvements in the lives of regular citizens and extremely limited entering of the pop-culture of the capitalist world into the ASF. (He is basically American Kim Jong Un but named after ITTL Lenin.)
Last edited:
Did not know this thread existed before attempting to start up another thread.
Below is a rough draft List of UK PMs up to present (circa 2020 from time of this post).
1900: Arthur Balfour (Conservative)
1904: Joseph Chamberlain (Liberal) [1]
1908: Herbert Henry Asquith (Liberal)
1910: Herbert Henry Asquith (Liberal)
1916: David Lloyd George (Liberal)
1918: David Lloyd George (Liberal) [2]
1922: Bonar Law (Conservative)
1923: Ramsey MacDonald (Labour)
1924: Stanley Baldwin (Conservative)
1929: Austen Chamberlain (Liberal) [3]
1934: Austen Chamberlain (Liberal)
1937: Neville Chamberlain (Conservative)
1940: Winston Churchill (Conservative)
1945: Clement Attlee (Labour) [4]
1946: Winston Churchill (Conservative)
1951: Winston Churchill (Conservative)
1955: Rab Butler (Conservative) [5]
1959: Rab Butler (Conservative)
1964: Hugh Gaitskell (Labour) [6]
1967: Harold Wilson (Labour) [7] [8]
1970: Enoch Powell (National Liberal) [9]
1974: James Callaghan (Labour)
1979: Margaret Thatcher (Conservative)
1983: Margaret Thatcher (Conservative)
1987: Margaret Thatcher (Conservative)
1992: Margaret Thatcher (Conservative) [10]
1993: Michael Portillo (Conservative)
1996: Margaret Beckett (Labour) [11]
2000: John Redwood or Michael Howard (Conservative) [12]
2005: David Miliband (Labour)
2010: Liam Fox (Conservative)
2015: Liam Fox (Conservative)
2020: Boris Johnson (Conservative)
[1] - Joseph Chamberlain wins his 3rd and final term as Prime Minister, which amongst other things was notable for Charles Mertz successfully persuading Parliament to unify electrical standards. His pre-1900s Premierships (1892-1900) were a result of never defecting thanks to another version of Irish Home Rule and No Crawford Scandal involving Charles Dilke, leading to his son Austen remain a part of the Liberals while his other son Neville would eventually join the Conservative party.
[2] - The Liberals reunited in 1918 and managed to finish second in the 1922/1923 with David Lloyd George, preventing a return to the pre-war Gold Standard.
[3] - Austen Chamberlain's 1929 UK Election win enables him to implement much of the ATL 1928 Liberal Manifesto / Yellow Book (aka OTL 1928 Liberal Manifesto / Yellow Book under David Lloyd George) which helped strengthen the British economy (allowing it to recover from the Depression much quickly) and significantly improve infrastructures (contributing to British’s rearmament process being much faster and helping the UK perform much better in WW2). Austen's Pro–Rearmament stance would stand in stark contrast to his half-brother Neville's Pro-Appeasement stance, leading to a bitter interwar Chamberlain (Liberal) vs Chamberlain (Conservative) rivalry that is only settled with the premature passing of Austen and subsequent ascension of Neville as Prime Minister from 1937. Despite Neville's Pro-Appeasement policy being implemented as in OTL, Austen's crucial pre-war Pro-Rearmenmant Policy together with his role in the UK's quick recovery from the Great Depression would leave the country in much better position upon the outbreak of WW2.
[4] – ATL 1945 UK Election was similar to OTL 1950 UK Election with Attlee winning by a narrow majority in 1945, the instability of the Attlee Premiership and knowledge it was unlikely to last more than a year before being replaced by Winston Churchill prompted the US to provide post-war UK with significantly more Marshal Plan aid compared to real-life under the OTL Attlee government with a landslide majority (that in tandem with other pre-war and interwar PODs allowed the UK to quickly recover from WW2).
[5] – Rab Butler succeeds Winston Churchill in place of both Anthony Eden and Harold Macmillan, his premiership also being notable for successfully implementing Operation ROBOT economic policy (as well as like OTL Harold Macmillan encouraging Fedden Motors - composite of VW, Renault and BL named after Sir Roy Fedden resulting in a role during UK equivalent of Years of Lead, most Light-Automobile Class carmakers - think UK sub-Mini analogue of Japan's Kei Cars and others to build new factories in depressed enterprise areas while unlike OTL Harold Macmillan allowing established carmakers to continue expanding existing factories).
[6] – A surviving Hugh Gaitskell wins 1964 UK Election on a Pro-Nuclear Anti-Nationalisation Anti-EEC platform after the UK’s entry to the EEC was approved in 1963 (partly a result of Charles de Gaulle being assassinated in 1961 when his car was hit by a bomb near the village of Crancey in the Pont-sur-Seine district). The UK under Gaitskell would also end up getting involved in the Vietnam War in a limited form by sending a token force to Vietnam as a result of President Johnson offering to pay Billions (more than the cost of any British military force) in the form additional assistance for the £ Pound Sterling, with large sums being transferred to the UK allowing it to pay off the Anglo-American loan to the US much earlier, reduce the UK national debt to being almost debt-free as well as initiate various infrastructure projects and cultivate various industries.
[6] – Hugh Gaitskell manages to revoke Clause IV of the Labour Constitution on the grounds of it being a political liability in the face of public opposition responsible for Labour's 1959 Election loss, which led to the revived British Socialist Party (later renamed Socialist Labour) being formerly led by the likes of Tony Benn, Michael Foot, Neil Kinnock and others who were previously part of the Left wing of Labour known as the Bevanites that left the party after the 1959 UK general election. Socialist Labour was once the 4th largest party in the UK partly due to militant union backing before declining into total irrelevance as a major political force. It would be followed by another exodus a decade later (with an additional breakaway party from the basis of the alternate Liberal Democrats) when Barbara Castle’s 1968-1969 “In place of Strife” White Paper was passed into law causing the Right wing of the Labour party known as the Gaitskellites / Blue Labour / Co-operative party to dominate (despite persistent entryism and attempts by returning ex-Labour members of the British Socialist Party later renamed Socialist Labour to make the Gaitskellite dominated Labour party unelectable especially after the arrest of former temporary Prime Minister Harold Wilson in 1974).
[7] – Harold Wilson became temporary Prime Minister upon Hugh Gaiskell’s sudden death in 1967 ahead of a then cancelled crucial vote on whether or not to leave the EEC. He would continue to be the centre of allegations of being a Soviet agent as well as claims Hugh Gaitskell was assassinated by the KGB to Wilson’s benefit, leading to him later being arrested during the 1974 UK Election by MI5.
[8] Years (or Decade) of Strife – Best described as a UK version of Italy’s Years of Lead, it was a period of social and political turmoil in the UK that lasted from the late 1960s until the late 1970s, marked by a wave of both left-wing and right-wing incidents of political terrorism both domestically as well as outside of the UK (targeting UK interests). The Years (or Decade) of Strife are often considered to have begun with the strikes at the Government and Co-Op owned Fedden Motors starting in 1969 as a result of Barbara Castle’s “In Place of Strife” white paper being approved, which unleashed a violent reaction by militant trade unions / workforce and other communist subversives with incidents including the assassinations of Fedden’s CEO as well as of former foreign secretary Anthony Eden and an Aldo Moro-like kidnapping/assassination attempt of former Prime Minister Harold Wilson (ostensibly for passing Barbara Castle’s 1968-1969 “In place of Strife” White Paper along with continued British involvement in Vietnam with terrorists intending to demand the release of imprisoned Left-wing terrorists in exchange for Wilson’s freedom), prior to a crackdown by Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and culminating in the raid / arrest / imprisonment of prominent communist trade union officials and others (including Derek Robinson aka Red Robbo, Alan Thornett, Bobby Fryer, etc) being caught in a drug sting operation with others fleeing to France during the 1980s under the Mitterrand doctrine (that soured relations between the UK and France and played a role later on in the dissolution of the EEC).
[9] – Outsider Enoch Powell defeated both the Conservatives under Edward Heath and Labour under Harold Wilson in the 1970 UK Election as leader of the National Liberal Party, the latter was revived by the left wing of the Conservatives / Red Tories who broke away from the original mainstream Conservative Party sometime after the UK joined the EEC / European Economic Community in 1963 and successfully managed to tap into public sentiment during the early years of what became known as the “Years (or Decade) of Strife”. However the party would decline after Enoch Powell was unexpectedly defeated in 1974 by Labour under James Callaghan, with a number of MPs switching to other parties. Otherwise unsure what a Premiership under Enoch Powell was resemble in such a scenario.
[10] Margaret Thatcher manages to survive the 1990 leadership challenge as well as win the 1992 UK elections (thanks to her skilled handling of the 1990s recession and defying the European Community to keep interest rates low enough by drastically cutting it by 5% to keep the economy more or less stable as well as the old “Falklands Factor”, where she threw the Patriotic bone at the public at the right time), prior to later leaving the European Exchange Rate Mechanism (ERM) and rejecting the Maastricht Treaty followed by Denmark and France (leading to the dissolution of the EEC and the European Free Trade Association / EFTA effectively becoming the single largest trade bloc in Europe by default) with Michael Portillo shortly succeeding her as Prime Minister from early 1993 onwards.
Inspired by SadSprinter's Thatcher Survives thread
[11] – Possibly with Tony Blair and John Prescott being First Ministers of Scotland and Wales respectively as a result of the West Lothian question being resolved (either recently or decades earlier unsure who could be Labour First Minister of England though or whether Conservatives manage to retain England during Election)
[12] - The alternate Fuel Protests in 2000 (along with proposed Ultra Low Emissions Zone laws that would have effectively banned diesel and petrol-powered private cars from the city centre as well as in outer London beyond the North and South circular roads on the same boundary as the current truck/bus Low Emission Zone, raising the cost of motoring while driving millions of working and middle class people off of the roads) served as one of number of catalyses that brought down the premiership of Margaret Beckett and Labour, after Labour attempted to increase the Fuel Duty from 62.5% to 90%. With Beckett being replaced by a minority Conservative government under either John Redwood or Michael Howard.
-Additional Notes-
- Trying to figure how to account for post-war splits from both Conservative (e.g. National Liberal aka Left Conservatives / Red Tories) and Labour (e.g. Socialist / Socialist Labour, ATL Liberal Democrats distant from ATL Liberals) Parties.
- Another would be an ATL Liberal Party that despite the premature passing of ATL PM Austen Chamberlain somehow manages to remain a competitive force in UK politics from the 1945 UK elections up to the present day with at least over 100 seats or at other times more than 26% of the vote, partly supplemented by right-leaning ex-Labour members or former left-leaning Conservatives / National Liberal members yet so far not quite gaining power (except possibly via collation in ATL 1996 Election) though not sure which ATL Liberal candidates would be capable of becoming the first post-war Liberal PM (aside from possibly Harold Macmillan, Michael Heseltine, etc).
- Envision the West Lothian Question being resolved either pre-war or post-war with the UK getting a devolved English Parliament either based in Leeds, Manchester, York or Winchester as well as an English First minister, which could serve to partly explain both post-war Conservative dominance in ATL post-war UK Elections where they still potentially dominate England even despite losing UK Elections outside of party splits / breakaways. etc.
- And lastly wondering which other Party candidates could potentially succeed Margaret Beckett at Labour and John Redwood or Michael Howard under the Tories as leaders / potential PM candidates from 2000 onwards up to the present in place of David Miliband, Liam Fox and Boris Johnson. Particularly after a candidate or few to capable of leading the UK towards adopting proportional representation voting system for elections by way of Single Transferable Vote aka STV via Condorcet Method (as well as proportional representation divided by sex) in place of the then existing first-past-the-post voting system and Voter ID Law (plus raising voting age to 25 and the abolition of Postal Voting except for severely disabled residents, the sick and armed forces only) as well as implementing the 6 demands of the Harrogate Agenda, a movement aimed at making the citizens of the UK legally sovereign over both Parliament and the Crown as well as embracing a federal system for all home nations with each having its own devolved parliament / assembly as well as a written constitution along with Swiss-style Semi-Direct/Direct Democracy.
Below is a rough draft List of UK PMs up to present (circa 2020 from time of this post).
1900: Arthur Balfour (Conservative)
1904: Joseph Chamberlain (Liberal) [1]
1908: Herbert Henry Asquith (Liberal)
1910: Herbert Henry Asquith (Liberal)
1916: David Lloyd George (Liberal)
1918: David Lloyd George (Liberal) [2]
1922: Bonar Law (Conservative)
1923: Ramsey MacDonald (Labour)
1924: Stanley Baldwin (Conservative)
1929: Austen Chamberlain (Liberal) [3]
1934: Austen Chamberlain (Liberal)
1937: Neville Chamberlain (Conservative)
1940: Winston Churchill (Conservative)
1945: Clement Attlee (Labour) [4]
1946: Winston Churchill (Conservative)
1951: Winston Churchill (Conservative)
1955: Rab Butler (Conservative) [5]
1959: Rab Butler (Conservative)
1964: Hugh Gaitskell (Labour) [6]
1967: Harold Wilson (Labour) [7] [8]
1970: Enoch Powell (National Liberal) [9]
1974: James Callaghan (Labour)
1979: Margaret Thatcher (Conservative)
1983: Margaret Thatcher (Conservative)
1987: Margaret Thatcher (Conservative)
1992: Margaret Thatcher (Conservative) [10]
1993: Michael Portillo (Conservative)
1996: Margaret Beckett (Labour) [11]
2000: John Redwood or Michael Howard (Conservative) [12]
2005: David Miliband (Labour)
2010: Liam Fox (Conservative)
2015: Liam Fox (Conservative)
2020: Boris Johnson (Conservative)
[1] - Joseph Chamberlain wins his 3rd and final term as Prime Minister, which amongst other things was notable for Charles Mertz successfully persuading Parliament to unify electrical standards. His pre-1900s Premierships (1892-1900) were a result of never defecting thanks to another version of Irish Home Rule and No Crawford Scandal involving Charles Dilke, leading to his son Austen remain a part of the Liberals while his other son Neville would eventually join the Conservative party.
[2] - The Liberals reunited in 1918 and managed to finish second in the 1922/1923 with David Lloyd George, preventing a return to the pre-war Gold Standard.
[3] - Austen Chamberlain's 1929 UK Election win enables him to implement much of the ATL 1928 Liberal Manifesto / Yellow Book (aka OTL 1928 Liberal Manifesto / Yellow Book under David Lloyd George) which helped strengthen the British economy (allowing it to recover from the Depression much quickly) and significantly improve infrastructures (contributing to British’s rearmament process being much faster and helping the UK perform much better in WW2). Austen's Pro–Rearmament stance would stand in stark contrast to his half-brother Neville's Pro-Appeasement stance, leading to a bitter interwar Chamberlain (Liberal) vs Chamberlain (Conservative) rivalry that is only settled with the premature passing of Austen and subsequent ascension of Neville as Prime Minister from 1937. Despite Neville's Pro-Appeasement policy being implemented as in OTL, Austen's crucial pre-war Pro-Rearmenmant Policy together with his role in the UK's quick recovery from the Great Depression would leave the country in much better position upon the outbreak of WW2.
[4] – ATL 1945 UK Election was similar to OTL 1950 UK Election with Attlee winning by a narrow majority in 1945, the instability of the Attlee Premiership and knowledge it was unlikely to last more than a year before being replaced by Winston Churchill prompted the US to provide post-war UK with significantly more Marshal Plan aid compared to real-life under the OTL Attlee government with a landslide majority (that in tandem with other pre-war and interwar PODs allowed the UK to quickly recover from WW2).
[5] – Rab Butler succeeds Winston Churchill in place of both Anthony Eden and Harold Macmillan, his premiership also being notable for successfully implementing Operation ROBOT economic policy (as well as like OTL Harold Macmillan encouraging Fedden Motors - composite of VW, Renault and BL named after Sir Roy Fedden resulting in a role during UK equivalent of Years of Lead, most Light-Automobile Class carmakers - think UK sub-Mini analogue of Japan's Kei Cars and others to build new factories in depressed enterprise areas while unlike OTL Harold Macmillan allowing established carmakers to continue expanding existing factories).
[6] – A surviving Hugh Gaitskell wins 1964 UK Election on a Pro-Nuclear Anti-Nationalisation Anti-EEC platform after the UK’s entry to the EEC was approved in 1963 (partly a result of Charles de Gaulle being assassinated in 1961 when his car was hit by a bomb near the village of Crancey in the Pont-sur-Seine district). The UK under Gaitskell would also end up getting involved in the Vietnam War in a limited form by sending a token force to Vietnam as a result of President Johnson offering to pay Billions (more than the cost of any British military force) in the form additional assistance for the £ Pound Sterling, with large sums being transferred to the UK allowing it to pay off the Anglo-American loan to the US much earlier, reduce the UK national debt to being almost debt-free as well as initiate various infrastructure projects and cultivate various industries.
[6] – Hugh Gaitskell manages to revoke Clause IV of the Labour Constitution on the grounds of it being a political liability in the face of public opposition responsible for Labour's 1959 Election loss, which led to the revived British Socialist Party (later renamed Socialist Labour) being formerly led by the likes of Tony Benn, Michael Foot, Neil Kinnock and others who were previously part of the Left wing of Labour known as the Bevanites that left the party after the 1959 UK general election. Socialist Labour was once the 4th largest party in the UK partly due to militant union backing before declining into total irrelevance as a major political force. It would be followed by another exodus a decade later (with an additional breakaway party from the basis of the alternate Liberal Democrats) when Barbara Castle’s 1968-1969 “In place of Strife” White Paper was passed into law causing the Right wing of the Labour party known as the Gaitskellites / Blue Labour / Co-operative party to dominate (despite persistent entryism and attempts by returning ex-Labour members of the British Socialist Party later renamed Socialist Labour to make the Gaitskellite dominated Labour party unelectable especially after the arrest of former temporary Prime Minister Harold Wilson in 1974).
[7] – Harold Wilson became temporary Prime Minister upon Hugh Gaiskell’s sudden death in 1967 ahead of a then cancelled crucial vote on whether or not to leave the EEC. He would continue to be the centre of allegations of being a Soviet agent as well as claims Hugh Gaitskell was assassinated by the KGB to Wilson’s benefit, leading to him later being arrested during the 1974 UK Election by MI5.
[8] Years (or Decade) of Strife – Best described as a UK version of Italy’s Years of Lead, it was a period of social and political turmoil in the UK that lasted from the late 1960s until the late 1970s, marked by a wave of both left-wing and right-wing incidents of political terrorism both domestically as well as outside of the UK (targeting UK interests). The Years (or Decade) of Strife are often considered to have begun with the strikes at the Government and Co-Op owned Fedden Motors starting in 1969 as a result of Barbara Castle’s “In Place of Strife” white paper being approved, which unleashed a violent reaction by militant trade unions / workforce and other communist subversives with incidents including the assassinations of Fedden’s CEO as well as of former foreign secretary Anthony Eden and an Aldo Moro-like kidnapping/assassination attempt of former Prime Minister Harold Wilson (ostensibly for passing Barbara Castle’s 1968-1969 “In place of Strife” White Paper along with continued British involvement in Vietnam with terrorists intending to demand the release of imprisoned Left-wing terrorists in exchange for Wilson’s freedom), prior to a crackdown by Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and culminating in the raid / arrest / imprisonment of prominent communist trade union officials and others (including Derek Robinson aka Red Robbo, Alan Thornett, Bobby Fryer, etc) being caught in a drug sting operation with others fleeing to France during the 1980s under the Mitterrand doctrine (that soured relations between the UK and France and played a role later on in the dissolution of the EEC).
[9] – Outsider Enoch Powell defeated both the Conservatives under Edward Heath and Labour under Harold Wilson in the 1970 UK Election as leader of the National Liberal Party, the latter was revived by the left wing of the Conservatives / Red Tories who broke away from the original mainstream Conservative Party sometime after the UK joined the EEC / European Economic Community in 1963 and successfully managed to tap into public sentiment during the early years of what became known as the “Years (or Decade) of Strife”. However the party would decline after Enoch Powell was unexpectedly defeated in 1974 by Labour under James Callaghan, with a number of MPs switching to other parties. Otherwise unsure what a Premiership under Enoch Powell was resemble in such a scenario.
[10] Margaret Thatcher manages to survive the 1990 leadership challenge as well as win the 1992 UK elections (thanks to her skilled handling of the 1990s recession and defying the European Community to keep interest rates low enough by drastically cutting it by 5% to keep the economy more or less stable as well as the old “Falklands Factor”, where she threw the Patriotic bone at the public at the right time), prior to later leaving the European Exchange Rate Mechanism (ERM) and rejecting the Maastricht Treaty followed by Denmark and France (leading to the dissolution of the EEC and the European Free Trade Association / EFTA effectively becoming the single largest trade bloc in Europe by default) with Michael Portillo shortly succeeding her as Prime Minister from early 1993 onwards.
Inspired by SadSprinter's Thatcher Survives thread
[11] – Possibly with Tony Blair and John Prescott being First Ministers of Scotland and Wales respectively as a result of the West Lothian question being resolved (either recently or decades earlier unsure who could be Labour First Minister of England though or whether Conservatives manage to retain England during Election)
[12] - The alternate Fuel Protests in 2000 (along with proposed Ultra Low Emissions Zone laws that would have effectively banned diesel and petrol-powered private cars from the city centre as well as in outer London beyond the North and South circular roads on the same boundary as the current truck/bus Low Emission Zone, raising the cost of motoring while driving millions of working and middle class people off of the roads) served as one of number of catalyses that brought down the premiership of Margaret Beckett and Labour, after Labour attempted to increase the Fuel Duty from 62.5% to 90%. With Beckett being replaced by a minority Conservative government under either John Redwood or Michael Howard.
-Additional Notes-
- Trying to figure how to account for post-war splits from both Conservative (e.g. National Liberal aka Left Conservatives / Red Tories) and Labour (e.g. Socialist / Socialist Labour, ATL Liberal Democrats distant from ATL Liberals) Parties.
- Another would be an ATL Liberal Party that despite the premature passing of ATL PM Austen Chamberlain somehow manages to remain a competitive force in UK politics from the 1945 UK elections up to the present day with at least over 100 seats or at other times more than 26% of the vote, partly supplemented by right-leaning ex-Labour members or former left-leaning Conservatives / National Liberal members yet so far not quite gaining power (except possibly via collation in ATL 1996 Election) though not sure which ATL Liberal candidates would be capable of becoming the first post-war Liberal PM (aside from possibly Harold Macmillan, Michael Heseltine, etc).
- Envision the West Lothian Question being resolved either pre-war or post-war with the UK getting a devolved English Parliament either based in Leeds, Manchester, York or Winchester as well as an English First minister, which could serve to partly explain both post-war Conservative dominance in ATL post-war UK Elections where they still potentially dominate England even despite losing UK Elections outside of party splits / breakaways. etc.
- And lastly wondering which other Party candidates could potentially succeed Margaret Beckett at Labour and John Redwood or Michael Howard under the Tories as leaders / potential PM candidates from 2000 onwards up to the present in place of David Miliband, Liam Fox and Boris Johnson. Particularly after a candidate or few to capable of leading the UK towards adopting proportional representation voting system for elections by way of Single Transferable Vote aka STV via Condorcet Method (as well as proportional representation divided by sex) in place of the then existing first-past-the-post voting system and Voter ID Law (plus raising voting age to 25 and the abolition of Postal Voting except for severely disabled residents, the sick and armed forces only) as well as implementing the 6 demands of the Harrogate Agenda, a movement aimed at making the citizens of the UK legally sovereign over both Parliament and the Crown as well as embracing a federal system for all home nations with each having its own devolved parliament / assembly as well as a written constitution along with Swiss-style Semi-Direct/Direct Democracy.
Last edited:
Another Boring List of Presidents of the United States
27. John Sharp Williams/John W. Kern (Democratic)
(March 4th,1905-March 4th,1913)
1904 Def: Theodore Roosevelt/Mark Hanna (Republican)
1908 Def: Joseph G. Cannon/Joseph B. Foraker (Republican)
28. William Howard Taft/Charles W. Fairbanks (Republican)
(March 4th,1913-March 4th,1921)
1912 Def: William Jennings Bryan/John Temple Graves (Democratic)
1916 Def: Algie M. Simons/Eugene V. Debs (Socialist with endorsement from Democratic)
29.Aaron S. Watkins† /Herman P. Faris (Prohibition)
(March 4th,1921-August 3rd, 1922)
1920 Def: Calvin Coolidge/Franklin Delano Roosevelt (Republican) Theodore Roosevelt/Clement C. Dickinson (Democratic)
30. Herman P. Faris/Vacant (Prohibition)
(August 3rd,1922-March 4th,1925)
31. Albert B. Fall/Herbert Hoover (Republican) I
(March 4th,1925-June 22nd,1927)
1924 Def: Herman P. Faris/Al Smith (Prohibition)
32. Herbert Hoover/Vacant (Republican)
(June 22nd,1927-March 4th,1929)
33.George Remus/Al Capone (Prohibition) I
(March 4th,1929-February 17th,1931)
1928 Def: Herbert Hoover/Charles Coughlin (Republican)
34. Al Capone†/Vacant (Prohibition)
(February 17th,1931-March 1st,1932)
35. William Hale Thompson/Vacant (Prohibition)
(March 1st,1932-March 4th,1933)
36. Al Smith/Walter F. George (Prohibition) R
(March 4th,1933-January 1st,1942)
1932 Def: Calvin Coolidge/Jacob Coxey (Republican)
1936 Def: Huey Long/Frank Knox (Independent)
1940 Def: Franklin Delano Roosevelt/Nellie Tayloe Ross (Republican)
37. Walter F. George/Robert L. Doughton (Prohibition)
(January 1st,1942-January 10th,1949)
1944 Def: John G. Cooper/Patrick H. Drewey (Republican)
38. Franklin Delano Roosevelt/Barry Goldwater (Republican)
(January 10th,1949-January 1st, 1961)
1948 Def:Robert A. Taft/Edward Martin (Prohibition)
1952 Def: B. Caroll Reece/Joe Guffey (Prohibition)
1956 Def: John F. Kennedy/Adalai Stevenson (Democratic Alliance)
39. Barry Goldwater/Ronald Reagan (Republican)
(January 1st,1961-January 1st,1969)
1960 Def: Richard Nixon/Hubert Humphrey (Prohibition)
1964 Def: Stuart Symington/Frederick G. Payne (Prohibition)
40. Charles O. Andrews/Russel B. Long (Prohibition)
(January 1st,1969-January 1st,1973)
1968 Def: Bob Dole/Richard Nixon (Republican)
41. Gerald Ford/Howard H. Baker (Republican)
(January 1st,1973-January 1st,1981)
1972 Def: Martin Luther King Jr/Malcom X (National Allies for the Good of Man)
1976 Def: Jimmy Carter/Frank Sinatra (Prohibition)
42. Alexander Haig/George H.W Bush (Republican)
(January 1st,1981-January 1st,1989)
1980 Def: John B. Anderson/Carl Weisenberg (Prohibition)
1984 Def: Dean Rusk/Fritz Hollings (Prohibition)
43.Niel Armstrong/Buzz Aldrin (Prohibition)
(January 1st,1989-January 1st,1997)
1988 Def: Bob Dole/George H.W Bush (Republican)
1992 Def: Patrick Buchanan/James E. Hill (Republican)
44. David Koresh/Ronald Reagan (Independent)
(January 1st,1997-January 1st,2001)
1996 Def: Rudy Guliani/Robert Byrd (Prohibition)
27. John Sharp Williams/John W. Kern (Democratic)
(March 4th,1905-March 4th,1913)
1904 Def: Theodore Roosevelt/Mark Hanna (Republican)
1908 Def: Joseph G. Cannon/Joseph B. Foraker (Republican)
28. William Howard Taft/Charles W. Fairbanks (Republican)
(March 4th,1913-March 4th,1921)
1912 Def: William Jennings Bryan/John Temple Graves (Democratic)
1916 Def: Algie M. Simons/Eugene V. Debs (Socialist with endorsement from Democratic)
29.Aaron S. Watkins† /Herman P. Faris (Prohibition)
(March 4th,1921-August 3rd, 1922)
1920 Def: Calvin Coolidge/Franklin Delano Roosevelt (Republican) Theodore Roosevelt/Clement C. Dickinson (Democratic)
30. Herman P. Faris/Vacant (Prohibition)
(August 3rd,1922-March 4th,1925)
31. Albert B. Fall/Herbert Hoover (Republican) I
(March 4th,1925-June 22nd,1927)
1924 Def: Herman P. Faris/Al Smith (Prohibition)
32. Herbert Hoover/Vacant (Republican)
(June 22nd,1927-March 4th,1929)
33.George Remus/Al Capone (Prohibition) I
(March 4th,1929-February 17th,1931)
1928 Def: Herbert Hoover/Charles Coughlin (Republican)
34. Al Capone†/Vacant (Prohibition)
(February 17th,1931-March 1st,1932)
35. William Hale Thompson/Vacant (Prohibition)
(March 1st,1932-March 4th,1933)
36. Al Smith/Walter F. George (Prohibition) R
(March 4th,1933-January 1st,1942)
1932 Def: Calvin Coolidge/Jacob Coxey (Republican)
1936 Def: Huey Long/Frank Knox (Independent)
1940 Def: Franklin Delano Roosevelt/Nellie Tayloe Ross (Republican)
37. Walter F. George/Robert L. Doughton (Prohibition)
(January 1st,1942-January 10th,1949)
1944 Def: John G. Cooper/Patrick H. Drewey (Republican)
38. Franklin Delano Roosevelt/Barry Goldwater (Republican)
(January 10th,1949-January 1st, 1961)
1948 Def:Robert A. Taft/Edward Martin (Prohibition)
1952 Def: B. Caroll Reece/Joe Guffey (Prohibition)
1956 Def: John F. Kennedy/Adalai Stevenson (Democratic Alliance)
39. Barry Goldwater/Ronald Reagan (Republican)
(January 1st,1961-January 1st,1969)
1960 Def: Richard Nixon/Hubert Humphrey (Prohibition)
1964 Def: Stuart Symington/Frederick G. Payne (Prohibition)
40. Charles O. Andrews/Russel B. Long (Prohibition)
(January 1st,1969-January 1st,1973)
1968 Def: Bob Dole/Richard Nixon (Republican)
41. Gerald Ford/Howard H. Baker (Republican)
(January 1st,1973-January 1st,1981)
1972 Def: Martin Luther King Jr/Malcom X (National Allies for the Good of Man)
1976 Def: Jimmy Carter/Frank Sinatra (Prohibition)
42. Alexander Haig/George H.W Bush (Republican)
(January 1st,1981-January 1st,1989)
1980 Def: John B. Anderson/Carl Weisenberg (Prohibition)
1984 Def: Dean Rusk/Fritz Hollings (Prohibition)
43.Niel Armstrong/Buzz Aldrin (Prohibition)
(January 1st,1989-January 1st,1997)
1988 Def: Bob Dole/George H.W Bush (Republican)
1992 Def: Patrick Buchanan/James E. Hill (Republican)
44. David Koresh/Ronald Reagan (Independent)
(January 1st,1997-January 1st,2001)
1996 Def: Rudy Guliani/Robert Byrd (Prohibition)
Last edited:
UPDATED LIST OF AMERICAN PRESIDENTS
Teddy Roosevelt 1901-04 - Republican *A*
Robert La Follette 1904-05 - Radical
William Jennings Bryan 1905 - 21 - Populist
Charles Curtis 21-29 - Republican
Andrew Mellon 29-30 - Republican ^_*
John J Pershing 30-33 - Independent
Floyde B Olson 33-38 - Progressive *
Huey Long 1938-54 - Radical Populist *
Henry Wallace 54-61 - Radical Populist
Norman Thomas 61-69 - Socialist
Elliot Roosevelt 69-1977 - Republican
Joseph McCarthy 77-79 - Conservative ^_*
Ronald Reagan 79-81 - Conservative ^_*
Donald Rumsfield 81-81 - America First Party
Martin Luther King Jr 81-93 - Socialist
Bernie Sanders 93-05 - Socialist
Brian T. Carol 05-13 - Distributism Now!
Joe Biden 13-17 - New Liberal Party
Alexandria Occazio Cortez 17-25 - New Democratic Party
* means died in office
^_* means impeached.
*A* means assasinated
Teddy Roosevelt 1901-04 - Republican *A*
Robert La Follette 1904-05 - Radical
William Jennings Bryan 1905 - 21 - Populist
Charles Curtis 21-29 - Republican
Andrew Mellon 29-30 - Republican ^_*
John J Pershing 30-33 - Independent
Floyde B Olson 33-38 - Progressive *
Huey Long 1938-54 - Radical Populist *
Henry Wallace 54-61 - Radical Populist
Norman Thomas 61-69 - Socialist
Elliot Roosevelt 69-1977 - Republican
Joseph McCarthy 77-79 - Conservative ^_*
Ronald Reagan 79-81 - Conservative ^_*
Donald Rumsfield 81-81 - America First Party
Martin Luther King Jr 81-93 - Socialist
Bernie Sanders 93-05 - Socialist
Brian T. Carol 05-13 - Distributism Now!
Joe Biden 13-17 - New Liberal Party
Alexandria Occazio Cortez 17-25 - New Democratic Party
* means died in office
^_* means impeached.
*A* means assasinated
Here is the Virginia portion
House of Lee (1791-1914)
Henry I | March 4, 1791 - March 25, 1818 (Lived 62 years, reigned 27 years)
Henry II | March 25, 1818 - January 30, 1837 (Lived 49 years, reigned 18 years)
Sydney | January 30, 1837 - July 22, 1869 (Lived 66 years, reigned 32 years)
Fitzhugh | July 22, 1869 - April 28, 1905 (Lived 69 years, reigned 35 years)
George | April 28, 1905 - February 18, 1913 (Lived 80 years, reigned 7 years)
Robert | February 18, 1913 - October 19, 1914 (Lived 70 years, reigned 1 year)
House of Roberts (1914-1983)
Eugene | October 30, 1914 - October 30, 1983 (Lived 85 years, reigned 69 years) [Closest living descendant of Henry I]
House of Coudenhove-Kalergi (1983-Present)
Hans Heinrich (Regent) | October 30, 1983 - October 7, 1989 (Lived 77 years, reigned 5 years) [Son in law of Eugene]
Dominik | October 30, 1983 - Present (Lived 46 years, ruled 36 years) [Son of Hans Heinrich and Crown Princess Cornelia, Grandson of Eugene]
A World to Win
John McCain/Rick Santorum 2001
2000: Def. Al Gore/Joe Lieberman, Ralph Nader/Winona LaDuke
John McCain/vacant 2001
John McCain/Joe Lieberman 2001-2009
2004: Def. Jesse Ventura/Lincoln Chafee, David Cobb/Cynthia McKinney, Michael Badnarik/L. Neil Smith
Hillary Rodham Clinton/Lindsey Graham 2009-2017
2008: Def. Ron Paul/Gary Johnson, Ralph Nader/Dennis Kucinich
2012: Def. Chuck Hagel/Mark Sanford, Russ Feingold/Barbara Lee, Gary Johnson/Robert Sarvis, Dennis Kucinich/Cynthia McKinney
Tim Pawlenty/John Edwards 2017-2021
2016: Def. Sherrod Brown/Barack Obama, Gary Johnson/Justin Amash, Tom Tancredo/Joe Walsh, Roseanne Barr/Richard Ojeda
Lincoln Chafee/Rand Paul 2021-
2020: Def. Lincoln Chafee/Debbie Stabenow, Tim Pawlenty/John Edwards, Justin Amash/Rand Paul, Cory Stewart/Steve King, Tulsi Gabbard/Vermin Supreme
John McCain/Rick Santorum 2001
2000: Def. Al Gore/Joe Lieberman, Ralph Nader/Winona LaDuke
John McCain/vacant 2001
John McCain/Joe Lieberman 2001-2009
2004: Def. Jesse Ventura/Lincoln Chafee, David Cobb/Cynthia McKinney, Michael Badnarik/L. Neil Smith
Hillary Rodham Clinton/Lindsey Graham 2009-2017
2008: Def. Ron Paul/Gary Johnson, Ralph Nader/Dennis Kucinich
2012: Def. Chuck Hagel/Mark Sanford, Russ Feingold/Barbara Lee, Gary Johnson/Robert Sarvis, Dennis Kucinich/Cynthia McKinney
Tim Pawlenty/John Edwards 2017-2021
2016: Def. Sherrod Brown/Barack Obama, Gary Johnson/Justin Amash, Tom Tancredo/Joe Walsh, Roseanne Barr/Richard Ojeda
Lincoln Chafee/Rand Paul 2021-
2020: Def. Lincoln Chafee/Debbie Stabenow, Tim Pawlenty/John Edwards, Justin Amash/Rand Paul, Cory Stewart/Steve King, Tulsi Gabbard/Vermin Supreme
A Communist Confederacy as the USSR
Premiers of the Southron Popular Socialist Republic (1937-2011)
Huey Long (Southron Popular Communist Party) 1937-1944 (Died in office)
James F. Byrnes (SPCP) 1944-1950
J. William Fulbright (SPCP) 1950-1961
Lyndon B. Johnson (SPCP) 1961-1972 (Died in office)
Strom Thurmond (SPCP) 1972-1973
Jimmy Carter (SPCP) 1973-1984
George Wallace (SPCP) 1984-2002 (Died in office)
Zell Miller (SPCP) 2002-2004 (Died in office)
John Rarick (SPCP) 2004-2005 (Died in office)
Al Gore (SPCP) 2005-2011
Presidents of the Dixie Confederacy (2011-)
John Edwards (Independent) 2011-2019
2011: Def. Roy Moore (SPCP), David Duke (National Commonwealth), Mitch McConnell (Independent)
2016: Def. Mike Huckabee (SPCP)
Tom Cotton (United Confederate)2019-
2020: Def. Mike Huckabee (SPCP), Doug Jones (Democratic Union)
Premiers of the Southron Popular Socialist Republic (1937-2011)
Huey Long (Southron Popular Communist Party) 1937-1944 (Died in office)
James F. Byrnes (SPCP) 1944-1950
J. William Fulbright (SPCP) 1950-1961
Lyndon B. Johnson (SPCP) 1961-1972 (Died in office)
Strom Thurmond (SPCP) 1972-1973
Jimmy Carter (SPCP) 1973-1984
George Wallace (SPCP) 1984-2002 (Died in office)
Zell Miller (SPCP) 2002-2004 (Died in office)
John Rarick (SPCP) 2004-2005 (Died in office)
Al Gore (SPCP) 2005-2011
Presidents of the Dixie Confederacy (2011-)
John Edwards (Independent) 2011-2019
2011: Def. Roy Moore (SPCP), David Duke (National Commonwealth), Mitch McConnell (Independent)
2016: Def. Mike Huckabee (SPCP)
Tom Cotton (United Confederate)2019-
2020: Def. Mike Huckabee (SPCP), Doug Jones (Democratic Union)
Rosa Luxemburg
Banned
1861 - 1864: Vice President John C. Breckinridge ('Southern' Democratic)
1864 - 1869: President John C. Breckinridge ('Pro-Administration' Democratic)
1860 (with Joseph Lane) def. Fmr. Rep. Abraham Lincoln (Republican), Senator Stephen Douglas ('Northern' Democratic), Fmr. Senator John Bell (Constitutional Union)
1864 (with Daniel S. Dickinson) def. Senator William H. Seward (Republican), Fmr. Senator Edward Everett (Constitutional Union), Senator Stephen Douglas ('Rebellion' Democratic), Fmr. General John C. Frémont (Radical Democracy), Senator Jefferson Davis ('True South' Democratic)
1869 - 1871: Senator Benjamin Wade (Republican)
1871 - present: Senator Henry B. Anthony (Republican, then National Union)
1868
1872
here's a WIP list. Any comments or advice?
1864 - 1869: President John C. Breckinridge ('Pro-Administration' Democratic)
1860 (with Joseph Lane) def. Fmr. Rep. Abraham Lincoln (Republican), Senator Stephen Douglas ('Northern' Democratic), Fmr. Senator John Bell (Constitutional Union)
1864 (with Daniel S. Dickinson) def. Senator William H. Seward (Republican), Fmr. Senator Edward Everett (Constitutional Union), Senator Stephen Douglas ('Rebellion' Democratic), Fmr. General John C. Frémont (Radical Democracy), Senator Jefferson Davis ('True South' Democratic)
1869 - 1871: Senator Benjamin Wade (Republican)
1871 - present: Senator Henry B. Anthony (Republican, then National Union)
1868
1872
here's a WIP list. Any comments or advice?
Deleted member 139407
I have a few questions and one comment:
1) What is a "Rebellion" Democrat? Attached to that is there some sort of Civil War going on under President Breckinridge?
2) Is there a civil war going on during the presidencies of Wade and Anthony? I saw that President Anthony switched to a National Union ticket as Lincoln did in OTL.
3) Was President Wade assassinated in your WIP? Attached to that question is why Senator Anthony take over rather than President Wade's assumed VP?
4) Keep up the good work!
Rosa Luxemburg
Banned
1) An 'Anti-Administration' Democrat, basically. A schism breaks in the Democratic party, with Douglas' faction favoring approaches that they believe will preserve the Union and Breckinridge's faction often provoking the Abolutionists and anti-expansionists. I avoided calling them that name because the news at the time would likely be referring to the situation in the party as a "rebellion". For this same reason, I may call the establishment-backed Breckinridge Democrats something like 'Mainline' or some similar name. If you have suggestions, I am open to that.
2) No, there isn't. There is definitely political instability, though, for reasons mentioned in the next answer, as well as increasing political tension over the issue of slavery.
3) Wade is assassinated, as is his Vice President, leaving Anthony next in line and causing more instability in it's wake. The idea of the timeline is a Abolition movement fighting against the status quo in an America further torn apart through expansionist politics and the lack of action on the side of both Republicans and Democrats, as they both begin to splinter and not only attempt to preserve themselves but also the Union.
4) Thank you! I hope I answered your questions, and I can certainly answer more if you have them.
Deleted member 139407
Very cool! As for names for the Breckinridge Democrats... you could maybe try "Constitutional Democrat" to give it a feeling of law and order. As for Douglas's faction, might I suggest the label of "Union Democrats" because of the idea that, as you said:
While Breckinridge plays the name game while ultimately provoking his opponents, Douglas comes in with... well... a better name... Anyway, hope this is helpful!
Rosa Luxemburg
Banned
I like that idea, actually. I was iffy on both 'Pro-Admin' and 'Rebellion', so that helps
MEGA UPDATE TO ALTERNATE PRESIDENTS LIST
Teddy Roosevelt 1901-04 - Republican *A*
Robert La Follette 1904-05 - Radical
William Jennings Bryan 1905 - 21 - Populist
Defeated: Robert La Follette /Robert P. Bass (Radical), William Howard Taft/James S. Sherman (Republican), Alton. B Parker/Henry G. Davis (Democratic), Eugene Debs/Ben Hanford (Socialist)
Charles Curtis 21-29 - Republican
Defeated: William Jennings Bryan/Robert La Follette (Radical Populist),Theodore G. Bilbo/Thomas R. Marshal (Democratic), Norman Thomas/Big Bill Haywood (Socialist)
Andrew Mellon 29-30 - Republican ^_*
Defeated: Charles W Bryan/Hiram Johnson (Radical Populist), Max S. Hayes/Frances Perkins (Progressive), D.C Stephenson/Virgil Effinger (Democratic), Norman Thomas/Big Bill Haywood (Socialist)
John J Pershing 30-33 - Independent
Floyde B Olson 33-38 - Progressive *
Defeated: Herbert Hoover/Franklin Delano Roosevelt (Republican).
Huey Long 1938-54 - Radical Populist *
Defeated: Max S. Hayes/Joseph E Davies (Progressive), Norman Thomas/A.J Muste (Socialist), Franklin Delano Roosevelt/Alf Landon (Republican), John Nance Garner/Arthur H. Vandenberg (Conservative)
Henry Wallace 54-61 - Radical Populist
Defeated: Patricia Olson/Glen H Taylor (Progressive), Norman Thomas/A.J Muste (Socialist), Thomas E.Dewey/Alf Landon (Republican) Russell Kirk/Everett Dirksen (Conservative)
Norman Thomas 61-69 - Socialist
Defeated: Betty Friedan/Michael Harrington (Progressive), Elliot Roosevelt/Alf Landon (Republican) Barry Goldwater/Joseph McCarthy (Conservative) Russel B.Long/Lydon B. Johnson (Radical Populist)
Elliot Roosevelt 69-1977 - Republican
Defeated: Betty Friedan/Michael Harrington (Progressive), Barry Goldwater/Joseph McCarthy (Conservative) Russel B.Long/Kitty Owens Spence (Radical Populist), Jimmy Carter/Eugene McCarthy (Christian) Martin Luther King/Malcolm X (Socialist)
Joseph McCarthy 77-79 - Conservative ^_*
Defeated: Betty Friedan/Michael Harrington (Progressive), Jacob Javits/Alf Landon (Republican), Russel B.Long/Kitty Owens Spence (Radical Populist), Jimmy Carter/Eugene McCarthy (Christian), Martin Luther King/Malcolm X (Socialist)
Ronald Reagan 79-81 - Conservative ^_*
Donald Rumsfeld 81-81 - America First Party
Martin Luther King Jr 81-93 - Socialist
Defeated: Betty Friedan/Michael Harrington (Progressive), Joe Biden/Alf Landon (Republican),Russel B. Long/Eugene McCarthy (Distributism Now), Jack Kemp/Newt Gingrich (Conservative), Donald Rumsfeld/Dick Cheney (American First Party)
Bernie Sanders 93-05 - Socialist
Defeated: Barbara Ehrenreich/Bill Moyers (Progressive), Joe Biden/Walt Disney (Republican),Bill Kauffman/Brian T Carol(Distributism Now), Jack Kemp/Newt Gingrich (Conservative), Donald Rumsfeld/Dick Cheney (American First Party)
Brian T. Carol 05-13 - Distributism Now!
Defeated: Bernie Sanders/Noam Chomsky (Socialist) Joe Kovel/Jill Stein (Progressive), Joe Biden/Jeremiah Wright (New Liberal Party),John McCain/Newt Gingrich (Conservative), Donald Rumsfeld/Dick Cheney (American First Party),
Joe Biden 13-17 - New Liberal Party
Defeated: Karen Kubby/Jon Osborne (Socialist) Joe Kovel/Jill Stein (Progressive), Joe Biden/Jeremiah Wright (New Liberal Party),Marco Rubio/John McCain (Conservative), Donald Rumsfeld/Dick Cheney (American First Party), John Medaille/Bill Kauffman (Distributism Now!)
Alexandria Occazio Cortez 17-25 - New Democratic Party
Defeated: Mimi Soltysik/Kshama Sawant (Socialist), Elizabeth Warren/Jill Stein (Progressive), Barrack Obama/John Kerry (New Liberal Party),Marco Rubio/Newt Gingrich (Conservative), Donald Rumsfeld/Dick Cheney (American First Party), John Medaille/Bill Kauffman (Distributism Now!)
* means died in office
^_* means impeached.
*A* means assasinated
Thoughts and Comments?
Teddy Roosevelt 1901-04 - Republican *A*
Robert La Follette 1904-05 - Radical
William Jennings Bryan 1905 - 21 - Populist
Defeated: Robert La Follette /Robert P. Bass (Radical), William Howard Taft/James S. Sherman (Republican), Alton. B Parker/Henry G. Davis (Democratic), Eugene Debs/Ben Hanford (Socialist)
Charles Curtis 21-29 - Republican
Defeated: William Jennings Bryan/Robert La Follette (Radical Populist),Theodore G. Bilbo/Thomas R. Marshal (Democratic), Norman Thomas/Big Bill Haywood (Socialist)
Andrew Mellon 29-30 - Republican ^_*
Defeated: Charles W Bryan/Hiram Johnson (Radical Populist), Max S. Hayes/Frances Perkins (Progressive), D.C Stephenson/Virgil Effinger (Democratic), Norman Thomas/Big Bill Haywood (Socialist)
John J Pershing 30-33 - Independent
Floyde B Olson 33-38 - Progressive *
Defeated: Herbert Hoover/Franklin Delano Roosevelt (Republican).
Huey Long 1938-54 - Radical Populist *
Defeated: Max S. Hayes/Joseph E Davies (Progressive), Norman Thomas/A.J Muste (Socialist), Franklin Delano Roosevelt/Alf Landon (Republican), John Nance Garner/Arthur H. Vandenberg (Conservative)
Henry Wallace 54-61 - Radical Populist
Defeated: Patricia Olson/Glen H Taylor (Progressive), Norman Thomas/A.J Muste (Socialist), Thomas E.Dewey/Alf Landon (Republican) Russell Kirk/Everett Dirksen (Conservative)
Norman Thomas 61-69 - Socialist
Defeated: Betty Friedan/Michael Harrington (Progressive), Elliot Roosevelt/Alf Landon (Republican) Barry Goldwater/Joseph McCarthy (Conservative) Russel B.Long/Lydon B. Johnson (Radical Populist)
Elliot Roosevelt 69-1977 - Republican
Defeated: Betty Friedan/Michael Harrington (Progressive), Barry Goldwater/Joseph McCarthy (Conservative) Russel B.Long/Kitty Owens Spence (Radical Populist), Jimmy Carter/Eugene McCarthy (Christian) Martin Luther King/Malcolm X (Socialist)
Joseph McCarthy 77-79 - Conservative ^_*
Defeated: Betty Friedan/Michael Harrington (Progressive), Jacob Javits/Alf Landon (Republican), Russel B.Long/Kitty Owens Spence (Radical Populist), Jimmy Carter/Eugene McCarthy (Christian), Martin Luther King/Malcolm X (Socialist)
Ronald Reagan 79-81 - Conservative ^_*
Donald Rumsfeld 81-81 - America First Party
Martin Luther King Jr 81-93 - Socialist
Defeated: Betty Friedan/Michael Harrington (Progressive), Joe Biden/Alf Landon (Republican),Russel B. Long/Eugene McCarthy (Distributism Now), Jack Kemp/Newt Gingrich (Conservative), Donald Rumsfeld/Dick Cheney (American First Party)
Bernie Sanders 93-05 - Socialist
Defeated: Barbara Ehrenreich/Bill Moyers (Progressive), Joe Biden/Walt Disney (Republican),Bill Kauffman/Brian T Carol(Distributism Now), Jack Kemp/Newt Gingrich (Conservative), Donald Rumsfeld/Dick Cheney (American First Party)
Brian T. Carol 05-13 - Distributism Now!
Defeated: Bernie Sanders/Noam Chomsky (Socialist) Joe Kovel/Jill Stein (Progressive), Joe Biden/Jeremiah Wright (New Liberal Party),John McCain/Newt Gingrich (Conservative), Donald Rumsfeld/Dick Cheney (American First Party),
Joe Biden 13-17 - New Liberal Party
Defeated: Karen Kubby/Jon Osborne (Socialist) Joe Kovel/Jill Stein (Progressive), Joe Biden/Jeremiah Wright (New Liberal Party),Marco Rubio/John McCain (Conservative), Donald Rumsfeld/Dick Cheney (American First Party), John Medaille/Bill Kauffman (Distributism Now!)
Alexandria Occazio Cortez 17-25 - New Democratic Party
Defeated: Mimi Soltysik/Kshama Sawant (Socialist), Elizabeth Warren/Jill Stein (Progressive), Barrack Obama/John Kerry (New Liberal Party),Marco Rubio/Newt Gingrich (Conservative), Donald Rumsfeld/Dick Cheney (American First Party), John Medaille/Bill Kauffman (Distributism Now!)
* means died in office
^_* means impeached.
*A* means assasinated
Thoughts and Comments?
Last edited:
Prime Ministers of the American Federation
1. John Tyler (Independent)
(January 7th,1840-April 7th,1847)
2. William Cullen Bryant (Loco Poco)
(April 7th,1847-April 7th,1850)
3. David R. Atchinson (Independent)
(April 7th,1850-April 7th,1859)
4.Jefferson Davis (Confederate)
(April 7th,1859-April 1st,1862)
5. Joseph Smith (Military)
(April 1st,1862-April 10th,1862)
6.John Tyler (Independent)
(April 10th,1862-April 17th,1868)
7. Brigham Young (People's)
(April 17th,1868-November 10th,1870)
8.John C. Fremont (Independent) R
(November 10th,1870-January 7th,1871)
9.Andrew Johnson (People's Union) R
(January 7th,1871-May 10th,1871)
10. Horatio King (People's)
(May 10th,1871-April 7th,1877)
11. James Seddon (Confederate)
(April 7th,1877-April 1st,1880)
12. Jefferson Davis (Confederate)
(April 1st,1880-April 7th,1885)
13.Chester Alan Arthur (Union) †
(April 7th,1885-August 24th,1886)
14. Charles Guiteau (Union)
(August 24th,1886-April 1st,1893)
15. Butch Cassidy (People's)
(April 1st,1893-April 1st,1905)
16. John Sharp Williams (Confederate)
(April 1st,1905-April 1st,1913)
17. Charles S. Thomas (Confederate)
(April 1st,1913-April 1st,1921)
18. John Sharp Williams (Confederate)
(April 1st,1921-April 1st,1929)
19. Robert Lansing (People's)
(April 1st,1929-April 1st,1933)
20. Calvin Coolidge (People's)†
(April 1st,1933-January 5th,1934)
21.Andrew Mellon (People's)
(Janaury 5th,1934-April 1st,1941)
22.Hiram Wesley Evans (White Power)†
(April 1st,1941-April 15th,1945)
23.Harry S. Truman (White Power)
(April 15th,1945-April 1st,1965)
24. Barry Goldwater (Confederate)
(April 1st,1965-January 5th,1981)
25. Rudy Boschwitz (People's Conservative) R
(January 5th,1981-April 11th,1992)
26.Elizabeth Dole (People's Conservative)
(April 11th,1992-January 5th,1994)
27. Orrin Hatch (National)
(January 5th,1994-January 5th,2001)
28. J.C. Watts (People's Conservative)
(January 5th,2001-January 5th,2009)
29. Deborah Price (Liberal-Labor)
(January 5th,2009-January 1st,2011)
30. Sarah Palin (People's Conservative)
(January 5th,2011-January 5th,2012)
31. Mitt Romney (People's Conservative)
(January 5th,2012-January 5th,2013)
32. Fred Phelps (Liberal-Labor) †
(January 5th,2013-April 20th,2013)
33. Joe Manchin (Liberal-Labor) R
(April 20th,2013-January 5th,2015)
34. Chuck Schumer (Liberal-Labor)
(January 5th,2015-January 5th,2016)
35. Mitt Romney (People's Conservative)
(January 5th,2016-January 5th,2021)
1. John Tyler (Independent)
(January 7th,1840-April 7th,1847)
2. William Cullen Bryant (Loco Poco)
(April 7th,1847-April 7th,1850)
3. David R. Atchinson (Independent)
(April 7th,1850-April 7th,1859)
4.Jefferson Davis (Confederate)
(April 7th,1859-April 1st,1862)
5. Joseph Smith (Military)
(April 1st,1862-April 10th,1862)
6.John Tyler (Independent)
(April 10th,1862-April 17th,1868)
7. Brigham Young (People's)
(April 17th,1868-November 10th,1870)
8.John C. Fremont (Independent) R
(November 10th,1870-January 7th,1871)
9.Andrew Johnson (People's Union) R
(January 7th,1871-May 10th,1871)
10. Horatio King (People's)
(May 10th,1871-April 7th,1877)
11. James Seddon (Confederate)
(April 7th,1877-April 1st,1880)
12. Jefferson Davis (Confederate)
(April 1st,1880-April 7th,1885)
13.Chester Alan Arthur (Union) †
(April 7th,1885-August 24th,1886)
14. Charles Guiteau (Union)
(August 24th,1886-April 1st,1893)
15. Butch Cassidy (People's)
(April 1st,1893-April 1st,1905)
16. John Sharp Williams (Confederate)
(April 1st,1905-April 1st,1913)
17. Charles S. Thomas (Confederate)
(April 1st,1913-April 1st,1921)
18. John Sharp Williams (Confederate)
(April 1st,1921-April 1st,1929)
19. Robert Lansing (People's)
(April 1st,1929-April 1st,1933)
20. Calvin Coolidge (People's)†
(April 1st,1933-January 5th,1934)
21.Andrew Mellon (People's)
(Janaury 5th,1934-April 1st,1941)
22.Hiram Wesley Evans (White Power)†
(April 1st,1941-April 15th,1945)
23.Harry S. Truman (White Power)
(April 15th,1945-April 1st,1965)
24. Barry Goldwater (Confederate)
(April 1st,1965-January 5th,1981)
25. Rudy Boschwitz (People's Conservative) R
(January 5th,1981-April 11th,1992)
26.Elizabeth Dole (People's Conservative)
(April 11th,1992-January 5th,1994)
27. Orrin Hatch (National)
(January 5th,1994-January 5th,2001)
28. J.C. Watts (People's Conservative)
(January 5th,2001-January 5th,2009)
29. Deborah Price (Liberal-Labor)
(January 5th,2009-January 1st,2011)
30. Sarah Palin (People's Conservative)
(January 5th,2011-January 5th,2012)
31. Mitt Romney (People's Conservative)
(January 5th,2012-January 5th,2013)
32. Fred Phelps (Liberal-Labor) †
(January 5th,2013-April 20th,2013)
33. Joe Manchin (Liberal-Labor) R
(April 20th,2013-January 5th,2015)
34. Chuck Schumer (Liberal-Labor)
(January 5th,2015-January 5th,2016)
35. Mitt Romney (People's Conservative)
(January 5th,2016-January 5th,2021)
- Status