List of Alternate Presidents and PMs II

Status
Not open for further replies.
Liam Cosgrave (Federalist) 1967-1972 - Ireland
1967: def. Brendan Corish (Labour), Sean Lemass (Teaghlach na Gaeilge - Independence Alliance), William Craig (Ulster Values)

Nice to see Cosgrave the Younger winning something in his own right - that election seems to have a general selection of decent individuals (yes Craig actually was not that bad OTL post-1975.)

Garret FitzGerald (Federalist) 1987-1992 - Ireland

Oh my oh my...

1987: def. Gerry Fitt (Labour), Desmond O'Malley (Democratic), Ian Paisley (Protestant League), Charles Haughey (Teaghlach na Gaeilge - Independence Alliance), Brian Faulkner (Ulster Values), Tomás Mac Giolla (Sinn Féin - write-in)
This is a glorious line up, an all star Irish election - I really wish that this was in a TL/vignette format. :D

Enda Kenny (Federalist) 2007-2012 - Ireland
2007: def. Ruairi Quinn (Labour), Mary Harney (Democratic), Bertie Ahern (Teaghlach na Gaeilge - Independence Alliance), Áine Ní Chonaill (People's), John Gormey (Green), Ian Paisley, Jr. (Protestant League)[/QUOTE]

Oh my such a great selection of choices for office here... :p I take it then that this is:

Federalists=Generally Fine Gael
Labour=Labour
Democratic=Progressive Democrats
Teaghlach na Gaelige=Fianna Fail
People's=Hardline wing of Renau Ireland or An Páirtí Náisiúnta
Greens=Greens
Protestant League=DUP
 
Labour split over the Liberal's demands for a Sterilisation Bill in 1929 and Webb led the pro-eugenic Labourites into a National Government with the more pro-eugenic parties, which held together through an alt-Great Depression until...

*Holds on tight to assorted works of G.K. Chesterton*
 
Oh my such a great selection of choices for office here... :p I take it then that this is:

Federalists=Generally Fine Gael
Labour=Labour
Democratic=Progressive Democrats
Teaghlach na Gaelige=Fianna Fail
People's=Hardline wing of Renau Ireland or An Páirtí Náisiúnta
Greens=Greens
Protestant League=DUP
Broadly yes, but Labour covers the OTL SDLP as well and the Democrats cover the Alliance Party as well.

Glad you enjoyed it, it's great to hear responses about one's work.
 
Broadly yes, but Labour covers the OTL SDLP as well and the Democrats cover the Alliance Party as well.

Glad you enjoyed it, it's great to hear responses about one's work.

Interesting, Gerry Fitt actually nearly coming to power is a nice idea in itself.

It was very good, I liked the original Celtic union mini-TL you created, nice to see this sort-of follow up to it.
 
Since I'm going to reboot my TL, A Song Was Heard in China, I would like to present to you my earliest thoughts on who should have been presidents of the US in my original TL, even though this version has been trashed immediately after consulting several members of AH.com. It was already known to a very small number of people here, and it was obviously borderline ASB, but when I looked back, I would sometimes wonder what if it did take place.

(1989-1995) - George H. W. Bush / Dan Quayle (Republican)
def. 1992: Paul Tsongas / Al Gore (Democratic)
(1995) - Dan Quayle / vacant (Republican)
(1995-1996) - Dan Quayle / Bob Kasten (Republican)
(1996-1997) - Bob Kasten / vacant

(1997-2005) - Al Gore / Evan Bayh (Democratic)
def. 1996: Dan Quayle / Bob Kasten (Republican)
def. 2000: John Ashcroft / George Allen (Republican)

(2005-2007) - Eric Shinseki / John E. Edwards (Democratic)
def. 2004: Mike Huckabee / Elizabeth Dole (Republican)
(2007) - John E. Edwards / vacant (Democratic)
(2007-2010) - John E. Edwards / Elliot Spitzer (Democratic)

def. 2008: Jeb Bush / Mark Sanford (Republican)
(2010) - Elliot Spitzer / vacant (Democratic)
(2010-2011) - Elliot Spitzer / Bill Clinton (Democratic)
(2011) - Bill Clinton / vacant (Democratic)
(2011-2021) - Bill Clinton / Harold Ford Jr. (Democratic)

def. 2012: Governor Franklin Graham of North Carolina / Governor Stephenie Meyer of Utah (Republican)

def. 2016: Stephenie Meyer / Allen West (Republican), Bill Gates / Linda Lingle (Moderate)
(2021-present) - Adam Kinzinger / Marco Rubio (Republican)
def. 2020: Donald Trump / Dennis Kucinich (Democratic)
 
Here is the list of Taoiseachs of the Irish Free State Ireland from 'No Southern Strategy' by @Nofix and myself. I felt it unnecessary to add notes to this considering that the Irish section of NSS is by far the most detailed and largest section of the TL to date. Enjoy...!

List of Taoiseachs of Ireland

1966-1971: Jack Lynch (Fianna Fail)

1969 (Majority): Liam Cosgrave (Fine Gael), Brendan Corish (Labour)
1971-1982: Liam Cosgrave (Fine Gael)
1971 (Minority Coalition w/ Labour): Jack Lynch (Fianna Fail), Charles J. Haughey (Oglaigh na Poblachta), Brendan Corish (Labour)
1972 (Coalition w/ Labour): Jack Lynch (Fianna Fail), Charles J. Haughey (Oglaigh na Poblachta), Brendan Corish (Labour)
1976 (Coalition w/ Labour): George Colley (Fianna Fail), Charles J. Haughey (Oglaigh na Poblachta), Brendan Corish (Labour)
1980 (Coalition w/ Labour): Charles J. Haughey (Oglaigh na Poblachta), Desmond 'Des' O'Malley (Fianna Fail), Stephen 'Stevie' Coughlan (Labour), Seán D. Alderman Christian Democrat Dublin Bay Rockall Loftus (Independent Technical Group), Bernadette McAliskey (Workers')
1982-1987: Oliver J. Flanagan (Fine Gael)
1984 (Coalition w/ Labour; Confidence & Supply from ITC): Charles J. Haughey (Oglaigh na Poblachta), Patrick Hillery (Fianna Fail), Stephen 'Stevie' Coughlan (Labour), Seán D. Alderman Christian Democrat Dublin Bay Rockall Loftus (Independent Technical Group), Bernadette McAliskey (Workers')
1987-1989: Austin Currie (Fine Gael)
1989-1996: Charles J. 'Charlie' Haughey (Oglaigh na Poblachta)

1989 (Coalition w/ Fianna Fail): Austin Currie (Fine Gael), Patrick Hillery (Fianna Fail), Dick Spring (Labour), Seán D. Alderman Christian Democrat Dublin Bay Rockall Loftus (Independent Alliance), Proinsias De Rossa (Workers')
1993 (Coalition w/ Progressive Democrats; Confidence & Supply from IA): Austin Currie (Fine Gael), Conor Cruise O'Brien (Labour), Desmond 'Des' O'Malley (Progressive Democrats), Proinsias De Rossa (Workers'), Seán D. Alderman Christian Democrat Dublin Bay Rockall Loftus (Independent Alliance)

1996-1997: Pádraig Flynn (Oglaigh na Poblachta)
1997-2000: Conor Cruise O'Brien (Labour)

1997 (Coalition w/ Fine Gael & Democratic Left; Confidence & Supply from IA): Pádraig Flynn (Oglaigh na Poblachta), Liam T. Cosgrave (Fine Gael), Proinsias De Rossa (Democratic Left), Desmond 'Des' O'Malley (Progressive Democrats), Seán D. Alderman Christian Democrat Dublin Bay Rockall Loftus (Independent Alliance)
2000-????: Liam T. Cosgrave (Fine Gael)

2002: Mary Coughlan (Oglaigh na Poblachta), Liam T. Cosgrave (Fine Gael), Róisín Shortall (Labour), Pat Rabbite (Democratic Left), Desmond 'Des' O'Malley (Progressive Democrats), Niamh Nic Mhathúna (Independent Alliance)
 
Last edited:
No 22nd Amendment:

34. Dwight Eisenhower | Richard Nixon (Republican): 1953-1963*

35.
Richard Nixon | Vacant (Republican): 1963-1965
35.
Richard Nixon | Thurston Morton (Republican): 1965-1969

36.
John F. Kennedy | Stuart Symington (Democratic): 1969-1977

37.
Nelson Rockefeller | Bob Dole (Republican): 1977-1978**

38.
Bob Dole | Vacant (Republican): 1978-1978
38.
Bob Dole | Gerald Ford (Republican): 1978-1981

39.
Walter Mondale | Lloyd Bentsen (Democratic): 1981-1993

40.
Jack Kemp | Jim Thompson (Republican): 1993-2001
40.
Jack Kemp | John McCain (Republican): 2001-2005

41.
John Kennedy Jr. | Bill Clinton (Democratic): 2005-2013

42.
Mitt Romney | John Kasich (Republican): 2013-2017

43.
John Kennedy Jr. | Barack Obama (Democratic): 2017-Incumbent

*= Died of Natural Causes
**=Died of a Heart Attack
 
So what persuades Fritz to seek a third term? IOTL before the 22nd, while you could run for an unlimited number of terms in theory, everyone but Grant and the Roosevelts stopped at two because of the precedent set by Washington, partly so as not to outshine him but mostly because they all agreed it was a good idea to have power change hands every once in a while. Grant ran for a third non-consecutive term in 1880 because a sizeable contingent of Republicans convinced him to, and because it was iffy whether the precedent applied to non-consecutive terms. Teddy Roosevelt did much the same thing for much the same reasons. FDR, meanwhile, ran for a third and fourth term because of the war, feeling that a transition of power while the country was in danger would be damaging to the war effort, and his enormous popularity ensured that he was able to do that.
 
The Second "Comeback Kid" (Version One):

(I wanted to make some Wikipedia infograms for this premise, however, because I haven't used a Mac in five years, I decided to take the simpler route.)

44. Al Gore (Democratic - Tennessee) January 20th, 2009 - January 20th, 2017| Vice President: Evan Bayh [1]
Elections and Defeated Tickets:

  • 2008: John McCain (Republican - Arizona)/Tom Ridge (Republican - Pennsylvania)
  • 2012: George Pataki (Republican - New York)/Bill Frist (Republican - Tennessee) [2]
45. Mike Pence (Republican - Indiana) January 20th, 2017 - Incumbent| Vice President: Chris Christie [3]
Election and Defeated Ticket:

  • 2016: Evan Bayh (Democratic - Indiana)/Cory Booker (Democratic - New Jersey) [4]

[1] Unlike in OTL, Representative Dick Durbin would lose the United States Senate Election in Illinois of 1996 to State Senator Peter Fitzgerald. Billionaire Michael Bloomberg would win the United States Senate Election in New York of 2000, running as a Democrat and later changing his affiliation to Independent. Former First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton would run for the United States Senate Election in Illinois of 2002, after Fitzgerald announced he would not seek another term. Clinton would defeat little known State Representative Jim Durkin. Because Clinton would have to run for re-election to the United States Senate in 2008, her and fellow Senator Barack Obama (elected in 2004, defeated Incumbent Senator Steve Rauschenberger) ruled out a presidential bid and endorsed the front-runner and eventual nominee, Former Vice President Al Gore. Because the Liberal wing of the Democratic Party would embrace their nominee, Gore needed a centrist to appeal to independent voters. Gore would select centrist Senator Evan Bayh as his vice presidential nominee for that purpose (I know Bayh is overused, however, he made both Gore's shortlist in 2000 and Obama's shortlist in 2008).

[2] I wanted to bring back actual and potential candidates from 2000 to be Gore's opponent in 2012. My three choices were, Pataki, Governor John Kasich of Ohio, or Businessman Herman Cain of Tennessee. Because Cain would never make it past the primaries and Kasich had only been Governor of Ohio since 2011, I selected the oldest and most experienced candidate, Former Governor George Pataki of New York.

[3] Governor Mike Pence of Indiana, despite being an 'enemy of the media', was the favorite in the Republican Party Presidential Primaries of 2016, because he was the most conservative and made promises to challenge political correctness (specifically bringing prayer back to schools) in the United States. Pence would select former presidential rival Governor Chris Christie as his vice presidential nominee, because Christie was moderate, appealing to independents and Pence, while soft spoken and well-versed, enjoyed Christie's charisma and "shooting from the hip" style. Pence and Christie would win the United States Presidential Election of 2016 because of Democratic fatigue from having Al Gore as president.

[4] Vice President Bayh wanted to give someone different a chance to be vice president. His top two choices were: Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey or Senator Hillary Clinton of Illinois. Because having two Midwestern candidates on the Ticket would be too geographically limiting and Clinton's advanced age, Bayh selected Booker as his vice presidential nominee. While Booker was a popular choice, progressives and followers of Bayh's only rival in the Democratic Party Presidential Primaries of 2016, Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, criticized the pick because Booker was slightly conservative on some issues. Booker's inexperience was also a talking point by critics and the choice was a turn off for working class Caucasian voters who were energized by Pence's challenge of political correctness. Despite winning the Popular Vote, the Bayh-Booker Ticket would narrowly lose the Electoral Vote to the Pence-Christie Ticket.
 
Last edited:
Pence as President? Eeek.
I was going to write that the October Surprise bombshell against him in ATL is an Islamophobic ad he made back in the 1990s that would only make him more popular with Religious Right voters and working class Caucasians (In OTL, the Access Hollywood tape made Trump more popular with his anti-PC crowd and was dismissed as 'locker room talk'.)
 
Last edited:
THROUGH HEGEMONY, PEACE

"In the end peace can be achieved only by hegemony or by balance of power"
- Henry Kissinger, US Secretary of State, 1971-1973 and 1981-1985

1961-1969: John F. Kennedy/Lyndon B. Johnson (Democratic)
1960 def - Richard Nixon/Henry Cabot Lodge Jr. (Republican)
1964 def - Barry Goldwater/William Scranton (Republican)

1969-1973: Nelson Rockefeller/David F. Cargo (Republican)
1968 def - Edmund Muskie/Eugene McCarthy (Democratic), Ross Barnett/George Wallace (American National Party)
1973-1981: Henry M. Jackson/Robert Kennedy (Democratic)
1972 def - Nelson Rockefeller/David F. Cargo (Republican), Barry Goldwater/scattered (Liberty)
1976 def - Ronald Reagan/Alexander Haig (Republican), George McGovern/scattered (Peace)

1981-1989: George H.W. Bush/Donald Rumsfeld (Republican)
1980 def - Walter Mondale/Edward Kennedy (Democratic)
1984 def - Joe Biden/Jeanne Kirkpatrick (Democratic)

1989-1993: Donald Rumsfeld/Dick Cheney (Republican)
1988 def - Lloyd Bentsen/Joe Lieberman (Democratic)
1993-1997: Joe Biden/Blanche Lincoln (Democratic)
1992 def - Donald Rumsfeld/Dick Cheney (Republican)
1997-2001: Joe Biden/Al Gore (Democratic)
1996 def - Dick Cheney/Michael Huffington (Republican), Pat Buchanan/Ross Perot (America First)
2001-2009: John McCain/Colin Powell (Republican)
2000 def - Hillary Rodham/ (Democratic)
2004 def - John Edwards/Mark Warner (Democratic)

2009-2013: Robert Kagan/Jeb Bush (Republican)
2008 def - Chris Dodd/Mike Gravel (Democratic)
2013-0000: Larry Diamond/Jim Webb (Democratic)
2012 def - Robert Kagan/Jeb Bush (Republican)
2016 def - Marco Rubio/Elizabeth Warren (Republican)

I basically wanted to get as many Neocon or Proto-Neocon Preisdents as possible, Idrk the logic behind it but I'll try and think of something.
 
Last edited:
THROUGH HEGEMONY, PEACE

"In the end peace can be achieved only by hegemony or by balance of power"
- Henry Kissinger, US Secretary of State, 1971-1973 and 1981-1985

1961-1969: John F. Kennedy/Lyndon B. Johnson (Democratic)
1960 def - Richard Nixon/Henry Cabot Lodge Jr. (Republican)
1964 def - Barry Goldwater/William Scranton (Republican)

1969-1973: Nelson Rockefeller/David F. Cargo (Republican)
1968 def - Edmund Muskie/Eugene McCarthy (Democratic), Ross Barnett/George Wallace (American National Party)
1973-1981: Henry M. Jackson/Joe Biden (Democratic)
1972 def - Nelson Rockefeller/David F. Cargo (Republican), Barry Goldwater/scattered (Liberty)
1976 def - Ronald Reagan/Alexander Haig (Republican), George McGovern/scattered (Peace)

1981-1989: George H.W. Bush/Donald Rumsfeld (Republican)
1980 def - Walter Mondale/Edward Kennedy (Democratic)
1984 def - Joe Biden/Jeanne Kirkpatrick (Democratic)

1989-1993: Donald Rumsfeld/Phil Crane (Republican)
1988 def - Lloyd Bentsen/Joe Lieberman (Democratic)
1993-1997: Joe Biden/Blanche Lincoln (Democratic)
1992 def - Donald Rumsfeld/Dick Cheney (Republican)
1997-2001: Joe Biden/Al Gore (Democratic)
1996 def - Dick Cheney/Michael Huffington (Republican), Pat Buchanan/Ross Perot (America First)
2001-2009: John McCain/Colin Powell (Republican)
2000 def - Hillary Rodham/ (Democratic)
2004 def - John Edwards/Mark Warner (Democratic)

2009-2013: Robert Kagan/Jeb Bush (Republican)
2008 def - Chris Dodd/Mike Gravel (Democratic)
2013-0000: Larry Diamond/Jim Webb (Democratic)
2012 def - Robert Kagan/Jeb Bush (Republican)
2016 def - Marco Rubio/Elizabeth Warren (Republican)

I basically wanted to get as many Neocon or Proto-Neocon Preisdents as possible, Idrk the logic behind it but I'll try and think of something.

Very nice list - just a minor quibble, Rummy and Crane are both from Illinois, so that ticket would probably be unworkable unless Rummy is running from, say, DC or some other state.
 
Very nice list - just a minor quibble, Rummy and Crane are both from Illinois, so that ticket would probably be unworkable unless Rummy is running from, say, DC or some other state.

It's a pity, because Rumsfeld and Crane could've been "Rummy and rummy".
 

Deleted member 83898

THROUGH HEGEMONY, PEACE

"In the end peace can be achieved only by hegemony or by balance of power"
- Henry Kissinger, US Secretary of State, 1971-1973 and 1981-1985

1961-1969: John F. Kennedy/Lyndon B. Johnson (Democratic)
1960 def - Richard Nixon/Henry Cabot Lodge Jr. (Republican)
1964 def - Barry Goldwater/William Scranton (Republican)

1969-1973: Nelson Rockefeller/David F. Cargo (Republican)
1968 def - Edmund Muskie/Eugene McCarthy (Democratic), Ross Barnett/George Wallace (American National Party)
1973-1981: Henry M. Jackson/Robert Kennedy (Democratic)
1972 def - Nelson Rockefeller/David F. Cargo (Republican), Barry Goldwater/scattered (Liberty)
1976 def - Ronald Reagan/Alexander Haig (Republican), George McGovern/scattered (Peace)

1981-1989: George H.W. Bush/Donald Rumsfeld (Republican)
1980 def - Walter Mondale/Edward Kennedy (Democratic)
1984 def - Joe Biden/Jeanne Kirkpatrick (Democratic)

1989-1993: Donald Rumsfeld/Dick Cheney (Republican)
1988 def - Lloyd Bentsen/Joe Lieberman (Democratic)
1993-1997: Joe Biden/Blanche Lincoln (Democratic)
1992 def - Donald Rumsfeld/Dick Cheney (Republican)
1997-2001: Joe Biden/Al Gore (Democratic)
1996 def - Dick Cheney/Michael Huffington (Republican), Pat Buchanan/Ross Perot (America First)
2001-2009: John McCain/Colin Powell (Republican)
2000 def - Hillary Rodham/ (Democratic)
2004 def - John Edwards/Mark Warner (Democratic)

2009-2013: Robert Kagan/Jeb Bush (Republican)
2008 def - Chris Dodd/Mike Gravel (Democratic)
2013-0000: Larry Diamond/Jim Webb (Democratic)
2012 def - Robert Kagan/Jeb Bush (Republican)
2016 def - Marco Rubio/Elizabeth Warren (Republican)

I basically wanted to get as many Neocon or Proto-Neocon Preisdents as possible, Idrk the logic behind it but I'll try and think of something.
Why is Warren a Republican? I know she was one long ago IOTL, but what leads her to stay in the party?
 
Why is Warren a Republican? I know she was one long ago IOTL, but what leads her to stay in the party?
Honestly it was just meant as a look at the butterflies moment, mostlymits because TTL's republicans aren't as neoliberal as IOTL which doesn't alienate Warren, making far more strategic investment and subsidy (the Neocon mindset eventually moves on to advocating a kind of corporate welfare state even larger than IOTL). That said I am considering switching her out for TTL's former First Lady Vic Nuland.
 
The Strange Death of Centrist England or Make Britain Great Again

2010-2014: David Cameron (Conservative)
2010 (Coalition with Liberal Democrats) def. Gordon Brown (Labour), Nick Clegg (Liberal Democrat)
2014-2017: Adam Afriyie (Conservative)
2014 (Majority) def. David Miliband (Labour), Nick Clegg (Liberal Democrat), Alex Salmond (Scottish National Party)
2017-2021: Dale Winton (Conservative)
2018 (Majority) def. Yvette Cooper (Labour), Jo Swinson (Liberal Democrat), Alex Neil (Scottish National Party)
2021-2026: Dennis Skinner (Labour)
2021 (Majority) def. Dale Winton (Conservative), Jo Swinson / Anna Soubry / Chuka Umuna / Nicola Sturgeon (Liberal Democrat / Open Nation / Progressive / 'Gradual' Scottish Nationalists --- Progressive Alliance)

The Liberals maintain the Clegg-gasm of 2010 and Cameron's coalition is even more reliant on their support. The Conservative Party is a rather more right-wing party on it's backbenches than OTL due to their reduced numbers and the watering down of right-wing legislation leads to a build up in frustration that leads to a coup of Cameron in 2014. After a short-lived minority government, Afriyie wins a majority, mostly thanks to the collapse in the Liberals, sinking below 20 seats. Later in the year, the Scottish independence referendum produces a NO victory.

Afriyie's first order of business is a referendum on the European Union, and campaigns to Leave. This causes ructions within the Conservative Party and after Boris Johnson prominently spearheads Remain, the country narrowly votes to Remain in the EU. Afriyie resigns in disappointment, and at the ensuing leadership election, newcomer to the parliamentary benches Dale Winton surfs a wave of Euroscepticism in the Tory membership to achieve victory.

In 2018, Winton dissolves Parliament and his opposition consists of a seemingly stagnant Labour Party, the cautiously resurgent Liberal Democrats, and the fractious SNP. The Nationalist's initial spike in support in 2014 has withered after four years, especially after Salmond's resignation led to fractious leadership election and the victory of the fundamentalist faction. Winton wins a majority on a much reduced popular vote. and the next three years are chaotic as Winton poses a radical nationalist agenda that sees the country's already strained relationship with Europe worsen. Meanwhile, the Labour Party elects a leader from the left-wing and the moderates in the party secede after two failed attempts to unseat him in the face of swollen membership.

The secession of pro-European moderates in the Conservative party filches Winton of his majority and his government falls. The Labour party win a large majority as the centrist Progressive Alliance eat into Conservative majorities up and down the country. The Progressives altogether have a little over fifty seats, while Labour have achieved their best result since 2001. How long the new Prime Minister will last is anyone's guess.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top