List of Alternate Presidents and PMs II
- Thread starter Asami
- Start date
- Status
i like thisHere's my first real contribution to the thread. Nothing really outlandish, but I did try and throw in some interesting ideas.
1801-1803: Thomas Jefferson/Aaron Burr (Republican)
1800: John Adams/Charles C. Pinckney (Federalist)
*1803-1805: Aaron Burr/vacant (Republican) [Acting] [1]
1805-1808: George Clinton/John Breckenridge (Republican) [2]
1804: Charles C. Pinckney/Rufus King (Federalist), Aaron Burr/various (Independent) [3]
*1808-1809: George Clinton/vacant (Republican) [4]
1809-1813: John Marshall/James Ross (Federalist) [5]
1808: George Clinton/William Few (Republican), James Madison/various ("True" Republicans), James Monroe/various ("Democratic" Republicans)
1813-1821: John Carlyle Herbert/Othniel Looker (Republican) [6]
1812: John Marshall/James Ross (Federalist), DeWitt Clinton/John Paul (dissident electoral votes from an Indianan Republican)
1816: James Ross/John Holmes (Federalist)
1821-18??: DeWitt Clinton/Isaac Shelby (Republican) [7]
1820: Reuben Humphrey/Robert Goodloe Harper (Federalist)
[1] The second constitutional crisis in three years came about as a result of the death of President Thomas Jefferson on August 12, 1803 due to a long illness. This left the unpopular Aaron Burr as the true President (as he and his supporters claimed), or as a mere caretaker (as his many opponents claimed). What little sympathy and support Burr has was quickly squandered, and his role as President was heavily scrutinized, and faced impeachment attempts as he fired most of his cabinet and attempted to nominate his own men to replace the exiled men.
[2] The Republican Congressional Caucus chose New York Governor George Clinton over Secretary of State Madison, one of the men who was forced out of his position by Burr. Burr himself received a pitiful amount of support among the ballots, placing dead last. Clinton mostly continued Jefferson's policies, but favored more diplomatic measures with Britain, compared to the more forceful demands of the Republicans who chose him due to his age and (presumed) compliance toward Congress. Clinton would establish himself as far more independent of his party then his initial supporters had hoped.
[3] Unswayed by his lack of support among the Congressional Republicans, Burr attempted to use the office of President as a means to assemble a new party, with the primary issue of electing him. It failed, drawing the support of only a minority of Republicans and an infinitesimal amount of Federalists (who mainly supported him as a means of further dividing the Republicans).
[4] Breckenridge's death in office spelled a blow to the west's power, as their man had died. Many of them were divided as to which Republican to support as his replacement
[5] Although the Federalists were a perpetual minority even during the long spell of Republican infighting, they managed to exploit divisions in 1812 to ensure the election of Chief Justice John Marshall. The Republicans divided into three factions, Clintonians, who supported the Republican President and managed to narrowly renominate the sickly old man; Madisonians, who opposed him and preferred the former Secretary of State as President; and finally Monroenians, who disliked Clinton, Madison, and the Congressional Nominating Caucus.
Marshall's tenure would be considered the zenith of early Anglo-American relations, as he kept America out of "the European War". Little was accomplished during his tenure, the Republican's still holding an ever-growing majority in Congress.
[6] As Marshall feared, a united Republican Party emerged and defeated him. The relatively unknown Maryland Governor John Caryle Herbert was chosen by the new "Republican National Convention", after Madison and Monroe both took themselves out of the contest. He was the first President since Washington to serve two whole terms, under which the nation expanded to the west, and the economy grew. He easily won re-election in 1816 as a popular, moderate figure who fostered support from all sections.
[7] As the Federalists largely contracted to its Northeastern position, the Republicans expanded to the point where they were their own biggest enemies. Populists versus elitists, laborers versus slaveowners, and so on. While the nephew of George Clinton easily sailed to victory, he sat upon a party ready to break apart on any number of divisive issues.
===
Don't really like how this on turned out, a little too similar to OTL. I do like the names I snuck in. Tell me if they're familiar.
i like this a lot
Here's my first real contribution to the thread. Nothing really outlandish, but I did try and throw in some interesting ideas.
1801-1803: Thomas Jefferson/Aaron Burr (Republican)
1800: John Adams/Charles C. Pinckney (Federalist)
*1803-1805: Aaron Burr/vacant (Republican) [Acting] [1]
1805-1808: George Clinton/John Breckenridge (Republican) [2]
1804: Charles C. Pinckney/Rufus King (Federalist), Aaron Burr/various (Independent) [3]
*1808-1809: George Clinton/vacant (Republican) [4]
1809-1813: John Marshall/James Ross (Federalist) [5]
1808: George Clinton/William Few (Republican), James Madison/various ("True" Republicans), James Monroe/various ("Democratic" Republicans)
1813-1821: John Carlyle Herbert/Othniel Looker (Republican) [6]
1812: John Marshall/James Ross (Federalist), DeWitt Clinton/John Paul (dissident electoral votes from an Indianan Republican)
1816: James Ross/John Holmes (Federalist)
1821-18??: DeWitt Clinton/Isaac Shelby (Republican) [7]
1820: Reuben Humphrey/Robert Goodloe Harper (Federalist)
[1] The second constitutional crisis in three years came about as a result of the death of President Thomas Jefferson on August 12, 1803 due to a long illness. This left the unpopular Aaron Burr as the true President (as he and his supporters claimed), or as a mere caretaker (as his many opponents claimed). What little sympathy and support Burr has was quickly squandered, and his role as President was heavily scrutinized, and faced impeachment attempts as he fired most of his cabinet and attempted to nominate his own men to replace the exiled men.
[2] The Republican Congressional Caucus chose New York Governor George Clinton over Secretary of State Madison, one of the men who was forced out of his position by Burr. Burr himself received a pitiful amount of support among the ballots, placing dead last. Clinton mostly continued Jefferson's policies, but favored more diplomatic measures with Britain, compared to the more forceful demands of the Republicans who chose him due to his age and (presumed) compliance toward Congress. Clinton would establish himself as far more independent of his party then his initial supporters had hoped.
[3] Unswayed by his lack of support among the Congressional Republicans, Burr attempted to use the office of President as a means to assemble a new party, with the primary issue of electing him. It failed, drawing the support of only a minority of Republicans and an infinitesimal amount of Federalists (who mainly supported him as a means of further dividing the Republicans).
[4] Breckenridge's death in office spelled a blow to the west's power, as their man had died. Many of them were divided as to which Republican to support as his replacement
[5] Although the Federalists were a perpetual minority even during the long spell of Republican infighting, they managed to exploit divisions in 1812 to ensure the election of Chief Justice John Marshall. The Republicans divided into three factions, Clintonians, who supported the Republican President and managed to narrowly renominate the sickly old man; Madisonians, who opposed him and preferred the former Secretary of State as President; and finally Monroenians, who disliked Clinton, Madison, and the Congressional Nominating Caucus.
Marshall's tenure would be considered the zenith of early Anglo-American relations, as he kept America out of "the European War". Little was accomplished during his tenure, the Republican's still holding an ever-growing majority in Congress.
[6] As Marshall feared, a united Republican Party emerged and defeated him. The relatively unknown Maryland Governor John Caryle Herbert was chosen by the new "Republican National Convention", after Madison and Monroe both took themselves out of the contest. He was the first President since Washington to serve two whole terms, under which the nation expanded to the west, and the economy grew. He easily won re-election in 1816 as a popular, moderate figure who fostered support from all sections.
[7] As the Federalists largely contracted to its Northeastern position, the Republicans expanded to the point where they were their own biggest enemies. Populists versus elitists, laborers versus slaveowners, and so on. While the nephew of George Clinton easily sailed to victory, he sat upon a party ready to break apart on any number of divisive issues.
===
Don't really like how this on turned out, a little too similar to OTL. I do like the names I snuck in. Tell me if they're familiar.
Well, certainly I would be making my funk the P-Funk from 1805 to 1809...
Thank you. Anything in particular that you like, or don't like?
Well, certainly I would be making my funk the P-Funk from 1805 to 1809...
I'm amused how the general public knows "George Clinton" as a musician, and no nothing about the Vice-President; while I'm the exact opposite.
Uhura's Mazda - A Very Substantial Opportunity
Uhura's Mazda
Banned
A Very Substantial Opportunity
With footnotes for @Japhy
List of Prime Ministers of New Zealand
1984-1989: David Lange (Labour)
1984 def: Robert Muldoon (National), Bruce Beetham (Social Credit)
1987 def: Jim Bolger (National)
1989-1990: Geoffrey Palmer (Labour)
1990-1990: Mike Moore (Labour)
1990-1994: Jim Bolger (National) [1]
1990 def: Mike Moore (Labour), Jim Anderton (NewLabour), Matiu Rata (Mana Motuhake)
1993 def: Mike Moore (Labour), Winston Peters (Liberal), Jim Anderton (NewLabour)
1994-1996: Ruth Richardson (National) [2]
1996-1997: Mike Moore (Labour) [3]
1996 def: Ruth Richardson (National), Jeanette Fitzsimons (Green), Winston Peters (Liberal Democrat), Jim Anderton (NewLabour)
1997-1999: Richard Prebble (Labour) [4]
1999-2002: Wyatt Creech (National) [5]
1999 def: Richard Prebble (Labour), Jeanette Fitzsimons (Green), Jim Anderton (NewLabour)
2002 def: Helen Clark (Labour), Jim Anderton (NewLabour)
2002-2006: Bill English (National) [6]
2005 def: Phil Goff (Labour), Jim Anderton (NewLabour)
2006-2008: Paul Henry (National) [7]
2008-2014: Helen Kelly (Labour) [8]
2008 def: Paul Henry (National), Jim Anderton (NewLabour)
2011 def: David Carter (National), Hone Harawira (Maori)
2014-2016: David Carter (National-Maori coalition) [9]
2014 def: Helen Kelly (Labour), Hone Harawira (Maori), Jan Logie (Green)
2016-0000: David Carter (National-Ecological and Liberal Democrats coalition) [10]
[1]
[2]
[3]
[4]
[5]
[6]
[7]
[8]
[9]
[10]
With footnotes for @Japhy
List of Prime Ministers of New Zealand
1984-1989: David Lange (Labour)
1984 def: Robert Muldoon (National), Bruce Beetham (Social Credit)
1987 def: Jim Bolger (National)
1989-1990: Geoffrey Palmer (Labour)
1990-1990: Mike Moore (Labour)
1990-1994: Jim Bolger (National) [1]
1990 def: Mike Moore (Labour), Jim Anderton (NewLabour), Matiu Rata (Mana Motuhake)
1993 def: Mike Moore (Labour), Winston Peters (Liberal), Jim Anderton (NewLabour)
1994-1996: Ruth Richardson (National) [2]
1996-1997: Mike Moore (Labour) [3]
1996 def: Ruth Richardson (National), Jeanette Fitzsimons (Green), Winston Peters (Liberal Democrat), Jim Anderton (NewLabour)
1997-1999: Richard Prebble (Labour) [4]
1999-2002: Wyatt Creech (National) [5]
1999 def: Richard Prebble (Labour), Jeanette Fitzsimons (Green), Jim Anderton (NewLabour)
2002 def: Helen Clark (Labour), Jim Anderton (NewLabour)
2002-2006: Bill English (National) [6]
2005 def: Phil Goff (Labour), Jim Anderton (NewLabour)
2006-2008: Paul Henry (National) [7]
2008-2014: Helen Kelly (Labour) [8]
2008 def: Paul Henry (National), Jim Anderton (NewLabour)
2011 def: David Carter (National), Hone Harawira (Maori)
2014-2016: David Carter (National-Maori coalition) [9]
2014 def: Helen Kelly (Labour), Hone Harawira (Maori), Jan Logie (Green)
2016-0000: David Carter (National-Ecological and Liberal Democrats coalition) [10]
[1]
[2]
[3]
[4]
[5]
[6]
[7]
[8]
[9]
[10]
Theres a lot of original ideas. Plus, I always have liked the first party system-era lists
Looking at it in this way... that world is a lot more messed up that I originally thought.
nezza - Wilson Quits in 1970
Wilson Quits in 1970
Edward Heath 1970-1974 (1)
Jim Callaghan 1974-1977 (2)
Tony Crosland 1977-1978 (3)
Keith Joseph 1978-1981 (4)
1 As OTL
2 Forms Lab-Lib Coalition. Tony Benn resigns from front bench and begins "Bennery"
3. Callaghan dies of a heart attack. Crosland becomes PM and forms uneasy pact with Liberals under Steel
4. Liberals pull out of pact. Crosland calls election in October. Tories under Joseph forms Majority Govt.
Edward Heath 1970-1974 (1)
Jim Callaghan 1974-1977 (2)
Tony Crosland 1977-1978 (3)
Keith Joseph 1978-1981 (4)
1 As OTL
2 Forms Lab-Lib Coalition. Tony Benn resigns from front bench and begins "Bennery"
3. Callaghan dies of a heart attack. Crosland becomes PM and forms uneasy pact with Liberals under Steel
4. Liberals pull out of pact. Crosland calls election in October. Tories under Joseph forms Majority Govt.
shiftygiant
Gone Fishin'
1) Callaghan hated the Liberals and was adamant they'd never serve in a Government with him, because he hated the idea that his Government was so weak it'd need support from someone else.
2) Bennery? Like, has he done a gang of four and this is a separate thing from Labour, or is this just his ideological split as OTL?
3) Why did Callaghan win in 70/71?
4) So what, Crosland just doesn't have a heart attack?
1) This is quite true, ever peevish ("Sunny Jim," rather like Dwight Eisenhower, hid a vindictive temper behind a grin) Callaghan wore his insecurities on his sleeve
2) Who knows, this is the era when Tony "immatured with age" but "Bennery" sounds like the first part of a nursery rhyme couplet
3) Maybe Woy's heart already wasn't in it? The sources are pretty clear Wilson still saw Jenkins as his immediate successor at that point but Callaghan was usually good at cutting deals with the unions and they still carried heavy lumber in the leadership contest arithmetic
4) There's no fault on your part -- this is solely because I love the smell of pedantry in the morning -- but it was a cerebral haemmorhage. His wife Susan wrote movingly about the days she spent lying beside him in his hospital bed during the six-day coma that preceded removing life support.
natemamate - Alternate Presidents of Australia
natemamate
Banned
Alternate Presidents of australia
- Edmund Barton (New Australia Party) 1901-1906
- George Reid (Free Trade Party) 1906-1907
- Andrew Fisher (Free Trade) 1907-1913
- Billy Hughes (Anti Australia Party) 1913-1916
- Billy Hughes (Pro Australia Party) 1916-1924
- Billy Hughes (Federalist Party) 1924-1925
- Chris Watson (People's Action Party) 1925-1927
- Joseph Lyons (New Australia Party) 1927-1939
shiftygiant
Gone Fishin'
Woy had just spent the last few years trying to aim the dagger without getting blood on himself, if you follow my drift. This would be too perfect an opportunity for him to miss.
Not to mention Peter Shore would throw himself at it, given his own relationship with Wilson.
First part sounds right based on the Sixties cabinet(s), and I do love me a good "Peter Shore gets his innings" TL...
Kaiser_Wilhelm - Kasich 2000
Rosa Luxemburg
Banned
John Kasich | Elizabeth Dole
(2001-2009) [1]
Rudy Guiliani | Mike Huckabee
(2009-2013) [2]
John Kerry | Hillary Clinton
(2013-2017) [3]
Jeb Bush | Jim Gilmore
(2017-2025) [4]
(2001-2009) [1]
Rudy Guiliani | Mike Huckabee
(2009-2013) [2]
John Kerry | Hillary Clinton
(2013-2017) [3]
Jeb Bush | Jim Gilmore
(2017-2025) [4]
Inherit The Wind - The Trail Just Got Ten Feet Longer
The Trail Just Got Ten Feet Longer
2017-2020: Donald Trump/Mike Pence
2016: def. Hillary Clinton/Tim Kaine
2020-2025: Donald Trump/Chris Christie
2020: def. Al Gore/Bob Casey Jr., Eric Holder/Ed Rendell
2025-2029: Chris Christie/Lindsey Graham
2024: def. William McRaven/Joseph Crowley, Joe Manchin/Jeff Flake, Elizabeth Warren/Joseph Crowley
2029: William McRaven/Jeff Flake
2028: def. Chris Christie/vacant
2029-2033: Jeff Flake/vacant
2033-2037: Paul Ryan/Pat Toomey
2032: def. Al Gore/Cory Booker
2017-2020: Donald Trump/Mike Pence
2016: def. Hillary Clinton/Tim Kaine
2020-2025: Donald Trump/Chris Christie
2020: def. Al Gore/Bob Casey Jr., Eric Holder/Ed Rendell
2025-2029: Chris Christie/Lindsey Graham
2024: def. William McRaven/Joseph Crowley, Joe Manchin/Jeff Flake, Elizabeth Warren/Joseph Crowley
2029: William McRaven/Jeff Flake
2028: def. Chris Christie/vacant
2029-2033: Jeff Flake/vacant
2033-2037: Paul Ryan/Pat Toomey
2032: def. Al Gore/Cory Booker
- Status