I mean, they could’ve all been born at Middleham, even if it is unlikely.
List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage
- Thread starter Jonathan
- Start date
Philip was never married to Margaret's aunt - Elisabeth married Don Carlos and had male issue with him...I'll take your point about Margaret being too young for Philip
so I'm assuming the POD here is that Mary Tudor lives long enough to prevent Felipe II marrying Élisabeth de Valois- which could have interesting effects in England as well. Anything from Mary Tudor ignores Felipe II's advice to leave Elizabeth in the succession and instead names her preferred heiress, Margaret Douglas (conditional on a marriage of Darnley and Katherine Grey- which was being kicked around for most of Mary's reign if she had named Marge as heiress)...to Elizabeth is obligated to get married as soon as she succeeds (Felipe II will likely put his hat in the ring, as will Jamie Hamilton) in the hope of producing a male heir...
I was thinking something along the lines of "Mary actually produces a living child, which means Elizabeth marries Savoy and is kicked out of the succession, but then the kid dies and whoops, now England's in a mess again" - but your ideas are much better, so...
you could always have things become a real mess and let Mary Stuart's half-brother, the duc de Longueville, survive and marry Mary Tudor's half-sister (this idea was actually kicked around for a bit OTL
Barbara Zapolya does not die in 1515:
Sigismund I (1467-1548) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland, m. Barbara Zapolya (d. 1547)
1) Hedwig (1513-1573) m. John (1513-1571) Margrave of Brandenburg-Küstrin, has issue
2) Anna (1515-1520)
3) Sigismund II (1517-1568) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1548, m. Elizabeth of Austria (1526-1571)
4) Elizabeth (1520-
5) Sophia (1522-1590) m. Albert (1522-1562) Margrave of Brandenburg-Kulmbach [1]
6) Anna (1525-1582) m. Charles Victor (1525-1577) Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel
7) Vladislaus IV (1527-1596) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1568, m. Elizabeth of Austria (1554-1592)
[2] Daughter of *
Sigismund I (1467-1548) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland, m. Barbara Zapolya (d. 1547)
1) Hedwig (1513-1573) m. John (1513-1571) Margrave of Brandenburg-Küstrin, has issue
2) Anna (1515-1520)
3) Sigismund II (1517-1568) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1548, m. Elizabeth of Austria (1526-1571)
1) Sigismund (1546-1549)
2) Hedwig (1549-1602) m. John III (1537-1592) King of Sweden
3) Barbara (1551-1582) m. John Frederick (1542-1600) Duke of Pomerania
4) Elizabeth (1557-1559)
4) Elizabeth (1520-
5) Sophia (1522-1590) m. Albert (1522-1562) Margrave of Brandenburg-Kulmbach [1]
1) Susanna (1546)
2) Albert Casimir (1548-1553)
3) Sigismund (1550-1621) Margrave of Brandenburg-Kulmbach, Duke of Prussia 1618, m. Dorothea of Brunswick (1557-1599) see below
4) Barbara (1554)
6) Anna (1525-1582) m. Charles Victor (1525-1577) Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel
1) Henry (1548-1552)
2) Charles Sigismund (1550-1604) Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel, m. Sibylle of Cleves (1557-1627)*
3) Barbara (1552-1558)
4) John Henry (1555)
5) Dorothea (1557-1599) m. Sigismund of Brandenburg-Kulmbach
6) Sophia (1561-1623) m. Ferdinand (1529-1595) Archduke of Tyrol
7) Vladislaus IV (1527-1596) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1568, m. Elizabeth of Austria (1554-1592)
1) Sigismund III (1572-1623) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1596, m. Anna of Brunswick (1578-1634) [2]
4) Hedwig (1575-1610) m. Maximilian I (1673-1651) Duke of Bavaria
5) Vladislaus (1580-1600)
6) Barbara (1583)
[1] Albert is raised as Catholic ITTL as his father does not die in 1527. His son inherits Duchy of Prussia after death of Albert Frederick in 1618, being his closest male relative.[2] Daughter of *
Most likely she married Massimiliano Sforza (or his brother Francesco if Maximilian had the OTL fate)
this is a very random second match. The only way it would make sense is if Edward were to wind up as "duke of Lorraine". Also, wouldn't Edward of Westminster be considered ahead of the duc du Maine to inherit Grandpa René's lands? Could make for a different Mad War?
@material_boy @isabella @RedKing
No, Edward of Westminster would NOT be ahead of Maine who was a male line Anjou (evidently that lands were reserved to the male line only) and would not get Lorraine as his cousin René II was son of the elder daughter and his father had his own claim to Lorraine
They only ways it makes sense is if Edward is inheriting Lorraine, made a love match or the Anna mentioned is related to some powerful nobleman and Anna is a proxy bride.
my bad. It would make for an interesting time though if Ned had wound up as duc d'Anjou, comte de Provence or duke of Lorraine
I can agree to it but he was simply a female line grandson from the younger daughter. If you marry Jeanne of Vaudémont to Ned instead of Charles of Anjou and then kill off René II before his remarriage at least Lorraine would be guaranteed to Ned (and he could potentially get everything if you kill off Charles of Anjou before René I… I would never do it, but you know who I am firmly an Edwardian Yorkist…)
Philip II m. Maria Manuela(a) Mary I of England(b) Anna of Austria(c)
1a.Carlos I of Portugal m. Elizabeth of France(a)
1a1a. Infante Philip b. 1563 m. Anna Vasa, Countess of Bari b. 1568[1]
-More issue
2c. Philip, Count of Charolais b. 1578
1. Daughter of Catherine of Poland with Sigismund Vasa.
1a.Carlos I of Portugal m. Elizabeth of France(a)
1a1a. Infante Philip b. 1563 m. Anna Vasa, Countess of Bari b. 1568[1]
-More issue
2c. Philip, Count of Charolais b. 1578
1. Daughter of Catherine of Poland with Sigismund Vasa.
Anna's dad is a fourth son of a third surviving son. Her mom is a princess of Croy and maternal grandmother is sister to Federic de Lorraine-Vaudémont. Which is why I suspected there might be a Lorrainer reason for the match. Otherwise, Anna makes very little sense as a match. Hell, the Dowager Duchess of Albany (Anne de la Tour d'Auvergne) would probably make more sense- both in terms of Edward of Westminster's "prospects" (unless we get the OTL scenario in England, in which case, EoW likely tries to marry Elizabeth of York) and how "desperate" he is (like Bonnie Prince Charlie) for some tie to any royal house that he will really just take anyone they give him
Philip II m. Maria Manuela(a) Mary I of England(b) Mary Stuart(c)
1a.Carlos I of Portugal m. Elizabeth of France(a)
1a1a. Infante Philip b. 1563 m. Anna Vasa, Countess of Bari b. 1568
-More issue
2c. Philip, Count of Charolais and Rothesay b. 1566
1a.Carlos I of Portugal m. Elizabeth of France(a)
1a1a. Infante Philip b. 1563 m. Anna Vasa, Countess of Bari b. 1568
-More issue
2c. Philip, Count of Charolais and Rothesay b. 1566
Something different. I feel like Katherine has it in her for a third marriage? Maybe she returns to Spain and winds up as third wife of Manuel I of Portugal? Or as second wife to @Zygmunt Stary (Cecily of York was over 40yo when her last child was born, Jacquetta of Luxembourg was 42yo when Katherine Wydeville was born, so Katherine of York would have a pretty good chance to still give Zygmunt an heir. And if she doesn't (or its a girl), there's always her younger son in Hungary).
Katherine of York (1479-1528) 1m: 1494 Juan, Prince de los Asturias (1478-1497); 2m: 1500 Vladislaus II[1], King of Hungary (1456-1516)
[1] Marriage arranged by Fernando II of Aragon
[2] Named for Saint George
@Fehérvári @Jan Olbracht @VVD0D95 @isabella @RedKing
Katherine of York (1479-1528) 1m: 1494 Juan, Prince de los Asturias (1478-1497); 2m: 1500 Vladislaus II[1], King of Hungary (1456-1516)
[1m.] Juan III, King of Spain (b.1496) m: 1510 Madeleine d’Albret (b.1494)
[1m. posthumous] Isabel (b.1498) m: I'm guessing she's going to end up with Joao III?
[2m.] Istvan VI, King of Hungary & Bohemia (b.1503)
[2m.] György[2] (b.1505)
[2m.] Katalin (b.1508)
[2m.] Anna (1511-1513)
[1] Marriage arranged by Fernando II of Aragon
[2] Named for Saint George
@Fehérvári @Jan Olbracht @VVD0D95 @isabella @RedKing
I don't think he would even want to touch his brother's former wife, unless he had something really tremendous to gain from it.