List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage

[Zygmunt Stary]

What happened to Juana was all fault of her husband and parents and would NOT happen to her if she had married differently to a better husband

Yeah, Manuel would have no interest in declaring Juana insane + judging from his OTL marriages he was a good husband.

Charles V spent his life on the road because he was simply unable to rule from one place alone, is all. But, Joanna could certainly try to rule Castile and Aragon from Portugal, it hasn't been done before.

Yeah, but Portugal is actually close at least to Castile, it's not that far. Union with Burgundy was actually harder to do, as Charles V's reign proves.

 

[isabella]

If it's the fault of her parents, it would happen regardless of who the husband is...

Absolutely false, specially as her wedding to Philip was one of the biggest trouble of her parents, well at least of her father

the heir would NOT be called John because Joanna's brother, John, died too young to be king meaning the name would be seen as unlucky...

Who had told you that absurdity? The heir would be called John in honour of both Joanna’s grandfathers and her late brother. As that was a name also used in Portugal, Manuel would be fine with it (see who Manuel’s eldest son by Maria, who was Joanna’s sister, was called John)…

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Yeah, Manuel would have no interest in declaring Juana insane + judging from his OTL marriages he was a good husband.



Yeah, but Portugal is actually close at least to Castile, it's not that far. Union with Burgundy was actually harder to do, as Charles V's reign proves.

Manuel's wives IOTL were not queen regnants with their own power. However I agree with you, he actually seemed to be a decent husband for Isabella and Maria, unlike the pieces of shit that Joanna and Katherine ended up with. Union with Burgundy is tough to do, yes

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Absolutely false, specially as her wedding to Philip was one of the biggest trouble of her parents, well at least of her father

Who had told you that absurdity? The heir would be called John in honour of both Joanna’s grandfathers and her late brother. As that was a name also used in Portugal, Manuel would be fine with it (see who Manuel’s eldest son by Maria, who was Joanna’s sister, was called John)…

...You said it was the fault of her parents and her husband...
So, Juan of Spain it is

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Katherine was the BIGGEST respond

Respond?

 

[Zygmunt Stary]

Manuel's wives IOTL were not queen regnants with their own power. However I agree with you, he actually seemed to be a decent husband for Isabella and Maria, unlike the pieces of shit that Joanna and Katherine ended up with. Union with Burgundy is tough to do, yes

Well, I wouldn't call Henry completely unjustified. Say what you want, but dude tried to avert civil war as his knowledge would indicate that Mary's ascension would mean exactly that.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Well, I wouldn't call Henry completely unjustified. Say what you want, but dude tried to avert civil war as his knowledge would indicate that Mary's ascension would mean exactly that.

True, but I mean, he himself is descended from legitimized bastard, so why he did not just declare Fitzroy legitimate is beyond me

 

[isabella]

Manuel's wives IOTL were not queen regnants with their own power. However I agree with you, he actually seemed to be a decent husband for Isabella and Maria, unlike the pieces of shit that Joanna and Katherine ended up with. Union with Burgundy is tough to do, yes

Katherine was the BIGGEST responsible for her own fate as she had the ability to compromise instead of believing who every thing was hers for God’s will she would not end in the OTL situation. Joanna instead was a victim of the ambitions of her husband and father and of the religious fervor of her mother.

...You said it was the fault of her parents and her husband...

Yes, but married to Manuel she would be in a totally different situation and environment than her OTL ones

So, Juan of Spain it is

Good

True, but I mean, he himself is descended from legitimized bastard, so why he did not just declare Fitzroy legitimate is beyond me

Because he was unable to do it and a fully legitimate son would be better.

 

[VVD0D95]

Considering how important was the alliance for both sides and who I doubt who Philip would renounce to the match, unless a French girl was offered, I think who the dowry will not be an insurmountable problem (specially considering who in OTL Joanna brought no money, thanks to the double match with Spain, and who her trousseau was lost in the journey)

So with dowries
Needed for
Liz, Cecile, Catherine and Anne that’s
Going to be quite the financial hit

 

[Zygmunt Stary]

True, but I mean, he himself is descended from legitimized bastard, so why he did not just declare Fitzroy legitimate is beyond me

Mary would be still danger though, as her mother would provide Spanish support for potential invasion of England.

 

[isabella]

So with dowries
Needed for
Liz, Cecile, Catherine and Anne that’s
Going to be quite the financial hit

That was true for most of the countries who had many princesses

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Mary would be still danger though, as her mother would provide Spanish support for potential invasion of England.

Charles didn't do shit when his aunt was divorced and exiled, and his cousin declared a bastard. I doubt he'd do much here

 

[VVD0D95]

That was true for most of the countries who had many princesses

Indeed sans the twenty years of civil war beforehand

 

[Zygmunt Stary]

Charles didn't do shit when his aunt was divorced and exiled, and his cousin declared a bastard. I doubt he'd do much here

That was when Henry was alive, he tried to secure the country in the case of his untimely death.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

That was when Henry was alive, he tried to secure the country in the case of his untimely death.

Of course Henry tried to secure the country, that was his big goal in life

 

[ordinarylittleme]

POD Francis II of France has a daughter with Mary, Queen of Scots

Francis II of France (1544-1560) m. 1558 Mary, Queen of Scots (b. 1542)

1. Mary II of Scotland (b. 1559) m. 1573 Rudolf II, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1552)
- Maria (b. 1577)
- Isabella (b. 1579)
- Charles I of Scotland/VI of Holy Roman Empire (b. 1581)
- Anne (b. 1583)

 

[Zygmunt Stary]

1. Mary II of Scotland (b. 1559) m. 1573 Rudolf II, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 155

Rudolf didn't want to marry, he believed that his legitimate son would overthrow him (he heard prophecy about that from astrologist) and marrying Queen of Scots to him would be frankly useless and also once Francis is dead what stops Mary of Scots from remarrying and having a son?

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Rudolf didn't want to marry, he believed that his legitimate son would overthrow him (he heard prophecy about that from astrologist) and marrying Queen of Scots to him would be frankly useless and also once Francis is dead what stops Mary of Scots from remarrying and having a son?

I recognize that Rudolf didn't want to marry, but he could certainly be forced into it, plus it is possible to butterfly this prophecy away. Once Francis dies, Mary might have a son, but the daughter as the oldest is heir apparent no?

 

[isabella]

I recognize that Rudolf didn't want to marry, but he could certainly be forced into it, plus it is possible to butterfly this prophecy away. Once Francis dies, Mary might have a son, but the daughter as the oldest is heir apparent no?

No, she would be surpassed by a brother.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

No, she would be surpassed by a brother.

Ah. ITTL she is Mary's only child, though. There is no brother to surpass her...so she is queen of Scotland but not France.