List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage

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Victoria

ordinarylittleme said:
Oooh, interesting! Please explain why on earth Henry would wed Mary of Bourbon if Katherine bore a son, though?
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Katherine dies in 1536 like she did in otl. Since Henry is still relatively young, he goes looking for another wife after a bit of mourning. Plus you never know when a spare could be needed.
 
Atterdag

Atterdag

Victoria said:
Katherine dies in 1536 like she did in otl. Since Henry is still relatively young, he goes looking for another wife after a bit of mourning. Plus you never know when a spare could be needed.
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Hm, Henry VII was refused to remarry to Catherine of Aragon when he was a similar age to HVIII here, on the basis of him being to old, the age difference between Henry VIII and Mary of Bourbon would be similair here.

Not saying that it wouldn't happen because of that, but it's an interesting parallell I think.
 

isabella

Kellan Sullivan said:
Did Antoine die young that Isabella only has one kid?
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More likely some stillbirths, miscarriages, short lived children who I have not counted… Isabella is the only vchild to reach adulthood…
Kellan Sullivan said:
poor Ferdinand-Isabella 2.0. They are together more but have even less luck than Karl-Isabella had OTL
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Kellan Sullivan said:
Interesting that their child mortality is even worse TTL. Although if it prevents the inbreeding, I fully understand
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I know, but if I left alive more/different kids for that two couples, more double first cousin Iberian inbreeding was guaranteed. This way at least they married a simple first cousin and in the next generation when John and Katherine’s eldest son will marry Manuel and Margaret’s daughter and heiress they will be only second cousins
 

isabella

Atterdag said:
Hm, Henry VII was refused to remarry to Catherine of Aragon when he was a similar age to HVIII here, on the basis of him being to old, the age difference between Henry VIII and Mary of Bourbon would be similair here.

Not saying that it wouldn't happen because of that, but it's an interesting parallell I think.
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Age was just ah excuse, Isabella and Ferdinand refuted the match because Henry VIII existed and was a better alternative for them. If Henry VII had been sonless, I doubt who the Spanish sovereigns would have denied him Catherine, unless they feared who an heir of Henry VII without Elizabeth of York’s blood would be unable to keep the english crown.
 

Jan Olbracht

1490: Isabeau of Brittany lives, Anne dies.

Isabella of Brittany (1478-1527) m. a) Maximilian (1457-1519) Holy Roman Emperor (annuled) b) Charles VIII (1470-1498) King of France c) Louis XII (1462-1515) King of France

1b) Charles (1497-1498)

2c) Louis XIII (1500-1525) King of France 1515, m. Isabella of Austria (1501-1526)

3c) Isabella (1502-1559) m. Charles V (1500-1558) King of Spain, Holy Roman Emperor

4c) Margaret (1503)

5c) Joanna (1505-1567) m. Henry II (1503-1555) King of Navarre

6c) Francis III (1508-1552) Duke of Brittany 1527, m. Charlotte of Longueville (1512-1549)

7c) John (1510-1564) Duke of Anjou, m. Anne of Lorraine (1522-1568)

8c) Marie (1512)

9c) Louise (1513-1594) m. James V (1512-1552) King of Scotland
 
ordinarylittleme

ordinarylittleme

Atterdag said:
Hm, Henry VII was refused to remarry to Catherine of Aragon when he was a similar age to HVIII here, on the basis of him being to old, the age difference between Henry VIII and Mary of Bourbon would be similair here.

Not saying that it wouldn't happen because of that, but it's an interesting parallell I think.
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Plus Mary of Bourbon is the same age as his daughter, Mary I. Also, why her of all people? Anne of Cleves brought an alliance and a dowry, what on earth does Bourbon do?
 
ordinarylittleme

ordinarylittleme

Jan Olbracht said:
1490: Isabeau of Brittany lives, Anne dies.

Isabella of Brittany (1478-1527) m. a) Maximilian (1457-1519) Holy Roman Emperor (annuled) b) Charles VIII (1470-1498) King of France c) Louis XII (1462-1515) King of France

1b) Charles (1497-1498)

2c) Louis XIII (1500-1525) King of France 1515, m. Isabella of Austria (1501-1526)

3c) Isabella (1502-1559) m. Charles V (1500-1558) King of Spain, Holy Roman Emperor

4c) Margaret (1503)

5c) Joanna (1505-1567) m. Henry II (1503-1555) King of Navarre

6c) Francis III (1508-1552) Duke of Brittany 1527, m. Charlotte of Longueville (1512-1549)

7c) John (1510-1564) Duke of Anjou, m. Anne of Lorraine (1522-1568)

8c) Marie (1512)

9c) Louise (1513-1594) m. James V (1512-1552) King of Scotland
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So, Isabeau weds the same men Anne does?
 
ordinarylittleme

ordinarylittleme

Jan Olbracht said:
Why is second son of Polish king married to Queen of Scots? Most likely he is married to some Italian princess as he'd likely inherit Italian duchies of his Sforza grandmother.
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The Italian duchies will go to first son so the second son will need to find a rich wife...and who better than Queen of Scots who is known to be a wealthy beauty in her youth?
 
ordinarylittleme

ordinarylittleme

POD James V married Mary of Bourbon instead of Madeleine of Valois.

James V (b. 1512) m. 1537 Mary of Bourbon (b. 1515)

1. James VI (b. 1537) m. Maria of Portugal (b. 1538)
2. Mary (b. 1538) m. Edward VI of England (b. 1537)
3. Margaret (b. 1542) m. John of Austria (b. 1538)
4. Francoise (b. 1544) m. Francis II of France (b. 1544)
5. Robert (b. 1545) m. Dorothea of Lorraine (b. 1545)
6. Elizabeth (b. 1547) m. Carlos, Prince of Asturias (b. 1545)
 

VVD0D95

Banned
VVD0D95 said:
POD: Edward V dies in Ludlow shortly after his father dies in London.

Richard III of England, Lord of Ireland (b.1475) m Anne, Duchess of Brittany (b.1477) in 1489

Issue:

Edward, Prince of Wales (b.1492)

Richard, Duke of Brittany (b.1493)*

Elizabeth, Princess of England (b.1495)

miscarriage (1497)

stillborn son (b.1499: d.1499)

stillborn daughter (b.1500: d.1500)

John, Duke of York (b.1503)*

miscarriage (1506)

Anne, Princess of England (b.1509)

*Per the marriage treaty, Richard and Anne's second son or eldest daughter would inherit Brittany after Anne, thus Richard junior becomes Duke of Brittany following his mother's death, he's also sent to Brittany to be raised there when he's a young lad. Richard and Anne's third son, John, is created Duke of York.

@Brita @Kellan Sullivan @isabella @FalconHonour @HortenseMancini @Carolus
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Expanding on this:

Edward, Prince of Wales (b.1492) m Isabel of Portugal* (b.1492) in 1506

Issue:

Richard of Wales (b.1508)

stillborn son (b.1509: d.1509)

Anne of Wales (b.1511)

Elizabeth of Wales (b.1513)

Edward of Wales (b.1516)

stillborn daughter (b.1519: d.1519)

Mary of Wales (b.1521)

miscarriage (1523)

miscarriage (1526)

Edmund of Wales (b1527)

*Isabel of Portugal being the daughter of Afonso, Prince of Portugal and Isabel of Aragon
 
ordinarylittleme

ordinarylittleme

VVD0D95 said:
Expanding on this:

Edward, Prince of Wales (b.1492) m Isabel of Portugal* (b.1492) in 1506

Issue:

Richard of Wales (b.1508)

stillborn son (b.1509: d.1509)

Anne of Wales (b.1511)

Elizabeth of Wales (b.1513)

Edward of Wales (b.1516)

stillborn daughter (b.1519: d.1519)

Mary of Wales (b.1521)

miscarriage (1523)

miscarriage (1526)

Edmund of Wales (b1527)

*Isabel of Portugal being the daughter of Afonso, Prince of Portugal and Isabel of Aragon
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Interesting! Could we perhaps see Catherine of Austria (daughter of Philip and Joanna) wed Richard of Wales?
 

VVD0D95

Banned
ordinarylittleme said:
That would be interesting, given Catherine's child mortality rate was, like her namesake aunt's, kind of shit...
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Indeed tho Tbf she was also mareied
To someone who was incrediblt
Closely related to her. Here, I tbink their most common ancestor would actually be the catholic monarchs
 
ordinarylittleme

ordinarylittleme

VVD0D95 said:
Indeed tho Tbf she was also mareied
To someone who was incrediblt
Closely related to her. Here, I tbink their most common ancestor would actually be the catholic monarchs
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True. Allow me to present you a hypothetical tree:

Richard of Wales (b. 1508) m. 1525 Catherine of Austria (b. 1507)

1. Richard (b. 1525)
2. Catherine (b. 1526)
3. Elizabeth (b. 1527)
4. Edward (b. 1528)
5. Cecily (b. 1529)
6. Jacquetta (b. 1530)
 

VVD0D95

Banned
ordinarylittleme said:
True. Allow me to present you a hypothetical tree:

Richard of Wales (b. 1508) m. 1525 Catherine of Austria (b. 1507)

1. Richard (b. 1525)
2. Catherine (b. 1526)
3. Elizabeth (b. 1527)
4. Edward (b. 1528)
5. Cecily (b. 1529)
6. Jacquetta (b. 1530)
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Works for me though whwre would the Jacquetta come from?
 
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