From what I understand, England's succession laws were up in the air at this point and it wasn't quite sure if a woman could inherit, or whether her claims simply funnelled down to the next available male heir, as has happened with Matilda. Regardless, the Lancastrian claims were, in part, a usurpation, so here they simply legitimise the coming generation with a marriage to the previous regime.
List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage
- Thread starter Jonathan
- Start date
From what I understand, England's succession laws were up in the air at this point and it wasn't quite sure if a woman could inherit, or whether her claims simply funnelled down to the next available male heir, as has happened with Matilda. Regardless, the Lancastrian claims were, in part, a usurpation, so here they simply legitimise the coming generation with a marriage to the previous regime.
The only device against female inheritance used until this moment was specifically aimed to prevent a male line granddaughter of a King to inherit her late’s father place in the succession and unlike Maud or Philippa of Clarence, this Philippa would be her father’s heiress presumptive for all her life.
Except Matilda was the daughter of the King and still passed over, in part because of her gender. England has no precedent of a Queen Regnant, just that they hold and pass their claims to their children. Obviously this eventually evolved to include women directly within the succession, but in OTL it didn't happen until 1553, when their were literally no obvious, of age male line options that could realistically compete with the female succession. And again, in 1400, the Lancastrians are essentially usurping the throne anyway. Philippa is a key to their holding the throne ATL, but she isn't going to be framed as heir in her own right, because that delegitimises their claims and makes thinks less clear if she fails to produce issue. It's a similar situation with Henry VII and Elizabeth of York, except her husband has an even better claim than the Tudor via Beaufort one.
You are wrong. Matilda was in a much different situation from this Philippa, whose rights of successions are established for law and secured by the entails of Edward I and also Edward III (who deprived Philippa of Clarence from the chance to inherit her late father‘s place in the succession but non touched the concept of female inheritance). And the main reason for which Matilda was passed over, with a much less established succession, was the fact who the English barons disliked her husband and do not wanted him as King. ATL the Lancastrian uprising will not have the OTL support as Bolingbroke can not say in any way to be the next-in-line (as princess Philippa is clearly her father’s heiress, at least until Queen Isabella give him a son) and is possible also who Richard would marry her to Edward of Norwich (who was likely his chosen heir in OTL) who is unlikely to made the OTL choice in this different situation. If Bolingbroke want try to take the Crown here his only legitimate way is marrying his son to Philippa of England and put them on the Crown as he would be in a much different position than OTL.
Again, I point to Elizabeth of York as a clear example of a very similar situation in a similar time to my timeline. I also acknowledged that the Mortimer succession for Philippa would have been considered in the original post. Philippa is a potential heiress to England in 1400, but England had NO precedent for a Queen Regnant. None. They'd all been passed over in favour of men. Regardless of why they had been, legal precedent was that men inherited, even if their mother through which their claim derided from was living.
Bolingbroke is an adult man of military skill who unseated Richard II of England from his throne due to perceived tyranny, who is going to be able to not only hold the throne, but marry the available heiress of his predecessor to his son and heir. There's definitely a version of this where Philippa is not in the hands of the Lancastrians and is upheld as a potential Queen Regnant, but that's not what I wrote. Within the century we're talking about, TWICE were women with claims used to produce heirs, rather than upheld on their own (Margaret Beaufort to Henry VII, and Elizabeth of York to Arthur and then Henry VIII).
This very issue was the root cause of the War of the Roses. The Yorkists held the senior female claim, the Lancastrians the senior male claim, and here, they hold both. I might consider redoing this as a cool early Queen Regnant tree another time, but what I put forward is pretty plausible and in line with everything that occurred OTL in regards to the English succession up until this point and 100 years past it. Philippa has more chance of being Queen Consort than Queen Regnant.
EDIT: Also, Matilda was established as her father's heir, right until the end of his life. The Barons were sworn to her. She was meant to be Queen. Her remarriage was a huge part of that, gaining an ally and producing heirs. The fact it didn't wind up working is more evidence that England was adverse, to put it mildly, to being ruled by a woman. The past is sexist and the succession laws were murky at best.
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Scenario: This guy has a son instead of a daughter, and that son is raised in the UK by his aunts. He goes on to serve with distinction in the Royal Air Force. This might be a bit ASB, considering the fact that TTL's Ernest Victor is a bastard, but I've always found the "pet Royals" of Britain (the Tecks and Battenbergs) very interesting. This is also a TL where Edward VIII marries his original sweetheart, Rosemary Millicent Sutherland-Levenson-Gower, and has a child who becomes King Victor I (yea I know he was probably infertile, but oh well). King Victor ITTL marries the daughter of the 1st Earl of Dartford.
Lineage of the Earls of Dartford, Viscount Strathearn from Ernest Victor Cumberland, son of Albert, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein.
(The title having been created in 1924 on the occasion of Sir Ernest Victor’s marriage to the Lady Helena Cambridge, youngest daughter of the 1st Marquess of Cambridge)
Ernest Victor, 1st Earl of Dartford (b. 1900 - d. 1959) m. 1924 to Lady Helena Cambridge, Countess of Dartford (b. 1899 - d. 1969)
1. George Adolphus, 2nd Earl of Dartford (b. 1925 - d. 1989) m. 1944 Lady Iris Mountbatten, Countess of Dartford (b. 1920 - d. 1982)
a. George Frederick, 3rd Earl of Dartford, (b. 1959) m. 1988 to Lady Beatrice, Countess of Dartford (b. 1963)
John Dartford, Viscount Strathearn (b. 1990 ) m. 2018 Lady Natalia, Viscountess Strathearn (b. 1994)
- Lady Lousia Dartford (b. 2019)
- Lord Louis Dartford (b. 2019)
Lord Henry Dartford (b. 1993), married, has issue
2. Queen Amelia Margaret Louise (b. 1927 - 1946 ) m. 1946 to King Victor I (b. 1921 - d. 1981), had issue
Lineage of the Earls of Dartford, Viscount Strathearn from Ernest Victor Cumberland, son of Albert, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein.
(The title having been created in 1924 on the occasion of Sir Ernest Victor’s marriage to the Lady Helena Cambridge, youngest daughter of the 1st Marquess of Cambridge)
Ernest Victor, 1st Earl of Dartford (b. 1900 - d. 1959) m. 1924 to Lady Helena Cambridge, Countess of Dartford (b. 1899 - d. 1969)
1. George Adolphus, 2nd Earl of Dartford (b. 1925 - d. 1989) m. 1944 Lady Iris Mountbatten, Countess of Dartford (b. 1920 - d. 1982)
a. George Frederick, 3rd Earl of Dartford, (b. 1959) m. 1988 to Lady Beatrice, Countess of Dartford (b. 1963)
John Dartford, Viscount Strathearn (b. 1990 ) m. 2018 Lady Natalia, Viscountess Strathearn (b. 1994)
- Lady Lousia Dartford (b. 2019)
- Lord Louis Dartford (b. 2019)
Lord Henry Dartford (b. 1993), married, has issue
2. Queen Amelia Margaret Louise (b. 1927 - 1946 ) m. 1946 to King Victor I (b. 1921 - d. 1981), had issue
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Scenario: A son for Vlasislaus II of Hungary and Beatrice of Naples have a son.
Vladislaus II, King of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1456: d.1516) m. Barbara of Brandenburg (b.1364: d.1515) (a) -annulled between 1480 and 1500-, Beatrice, Princess of Naples (b.1457: d.1508) (b) [1], Joanna, Princess of Naples (b.1478: d.1518) (c) [2]
[1] Married in 1491, Beatrice of Naples falls pregnant by her second husband for the first and only time sometime during the early months of 1492, giving birth to their son on November 30th, and naming him Andrew after St. Andrew the Apostle. The Hungarian King, who had been worried without an heir, was thrilled with a healthy heir, although he became increasingly worried that his wife did not fall pregnant again. But they had a son.
[2] Shortly after the death of his Queen, Vladislaus set about for a third (or, in his count, second) wife, falling upon the niece of the King of Aragon, the widowed Queen of Naples, who had recently been considered as the second wife of Henry Tudor in England. Thrilled with his beautiful wife, he hoped for further children, but saw none in the last years of his life. Joanna was not politically involved, and instead, much of the King's attentions were directed by his son, who worked to begin establishing himself as the future King through action, rather than just by right.
[3] The marriage of Andrew IV of Hungary and Elisabeth Corvinus, the last member of the Hunyadi dynasty, was a marriage his mother had fostered as a means of neutralising the threat that the Corvinus had held against the Jaigellon dynasty she was now mother to. Beatrice of Naples had personally travelled to Italy, where Beatrice de Frangepan, widow of John Corvinus, had travelled with her daughter to try and escape after her son was likely murdered. Offering to broker a marriage between the families, Beatrice brought Elisabeth to Hungary and convinced her husband to the match. Elisabeth, ambitious in her own rights, attempted to have her claims heard in 1516, upon Vladislaus' death, but was hampered by a pregnancy with her second child, and was captured by her husband shortly after. Giving birth to a sickly daughter who died within weeks of birth, Elisabeth languished under house arrest before dying of a lingering infection from childbirth. Her only surviving child, the Princess Margaret, was granted Hunyad Castle.
[4] Andrew of Hungary was interested in a match with the Hapsburgs following the death of his wife, but wanted to marry a woman beautiful enough to maintain his attentions. He was uninterested in the Holy Roman Emperor's sisters due to his perception of their homeliness, in particular refusing a match with the Archduchess Maria, who he described as graceless and horselike. He did, however, accept a match with the widow of Ferdinand II of Aragon, Germaine of Foix, after meeting her in Italy in 1518, attending the wedding of Ferdinand of Austria and Bona Sforza. The Emperor dowered his step-grandmother well, and they would have a son in 1520, securing the dynasty.
[5] Margaret of Hungary was, in short words, a catch. Rich, well connected, an heiress in her own right, she was betrothed in 1516 to Charles of Austria, soon to be Holy Roman Emperor, and in 1519 to the Dauphin of France. Then, in 1524, after the death of Claude of France, her father arranged for her to marry Francis I of France himself, in exchange for their children only being the heirs to Naples. The match was set until Francis was captured by the Hapsburgs, and in annoyance Andrew returned to that alliance, betrothing his daughter to the Filippa of Austria, the son of Ferdinand of Austria and Bona Sforza, who by 1528 was the heir to Milan. Throwing his backing specifically behind Ferdinand for Milan, he saw Margaret married to Filippo in 1533, three days after the groom's 14th birthday and shortly before the Princess' 19th. The marriage would not be consummated until 1535, when the dowry was paid in full. Margaret would only have two surviving children, partially because of the long stretches her husband was fighting to protect their throne in Naples.
[6] Louis of Hungary married Barbara of Brandenburg, eldest daughter of the Elector of Brandenburg, as a way to resolve underlying issues that had occurred when his grandfather had annulled a marriage to a different Barbara of Brandenburg to marry Beatrice of Naples. This was not the obvious choice of the future King, who had been engaged to a Princess of France since 1531, but much of Andrew's policies were built around resolving tensions where possible to prevent further bloodshed. Louis and Barbara were distant in their relationship, with the Queen complaining she often felt more like a broodmare than a bride. After their youngest child, the Princess Beatrice, was born, she bought Hunyad Castle from Margaret of Hungary and settled her own court separate from her husband and her children.
Vladislaus II, King of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1456: d.1516) m. Barbara of Brandenburg (b.1364: d.1515) (a) -annulled between 1480 and 1500-, Beatrice, Princess of Naples (b.1457: d.1508) (b) [1], Joanna, Princess of Naples (b.1478: d.1518) (c) [2]
1b) Andrew IV, King of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1492: d.1545) m. Elisabeth Corvinus (b.1496: d.1518) (a) [3], Germaine of Foix (b.1488: d.1536) (b) [4]
1a) Margaret, Princess of Hungary and Bohemia (b.1514: d.1579) m. Filippo II, Duke of Milan (b.1519: d.1565) (a) [5]
1a) Ferdinand II, Duke of Milan (b.1537)
2a) Maria of Milan (b.1540: d.1542)
3a) Isabella of Milan (b.1544: d.1550)
4a) Charles of Milan (b.1546: d.1547)
5a) Eleonora of Milan (b.1552)
2a) Elizabeth, Princess of Hungary and Bohemia (b.1517: d.1517)
3b) Louis II, King of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1520: d.1575) m. Barbara of Brandenburg (b.1527: d.1595) (a) [6]
1a) Stillborn Son (c.1545)
2a) Elisabeth, Princess of Hungary and Bohemia (b.1547: d.1550)
3a) Louis III, King of Hungary and Bohemia (b.1549)
4a) Stillborn Son (c.1550)
5a) Charles, Prince of Hungary and Bohemia (b.1553: d.1553)
6a) Sigismund, Duke of Głogów (b.1555)
7a) Stillborn Son (c.1557)
8a) Marie, Princess of Hungary and Bohemia (b.1558: d.1558)
9a) Albert, Prince of Hungary and Bohemia (b.1560: d.1565)
10a) Stillborn Son (c.1561)
11a) Beatrice, Princess of Hungary and Bohemia (b.1564)
4b) Maria, Princess of Hungary and Bohemia (b.1523: d.1527)
[1] Married in 1491, Beatrice of Naples falls pregnant by her second husband for the first and only time sometime during the early months of 1492, giving birth to their son on November 30th, and naming him Andrew after St. Andrew the Apostle. The Hungarian King, who had been worried without an heir, was thrilled with a healthy heir, although he became increasingly worried that his wife did not fall pregnant again. But they had a son.
[2] Shortly after the death of his Queen, Vladislaus set about for a third (or, in his count, second) wife, falling upon the niece of the King of Aragon, the widowed Queen of Naples, who had recently been considered as the second wife of Henry Tudor in England. Thrilled with his beautiful wife, he hoped for further children, but saw none in the last years of his life. Joanna was not politically involved, and instead, much of the King's attentions were directed by his son, who worked to begin establishing himself as the future King through action, rather than just by right.
[3] The marriage of Andrew IV of Hungary and Elisabeth Corvinus, the last member of the Hunyadi dynasty, was a marriage his mother had fostered as a means of neutralising the threat that the Corvinus had held against the Jaigellon dynasty she was now mother to. Beatrice of Naples had personally travelled to Italy, where Beatrice de Frangepan, widow of John Corvinus, had travelled with her daughter to try and escape after her son was likely murdered. Offering to broker a marriage between the families, Beatrice brought Elisabeth to Hungary and convinced her husband to the match. Elisabeth, ambitious in her own rights, attempted to have her claims heard in 1516, upon Vladislaus' death, but was hampered by a pregnancy with her second child, and was captured by her husband shortly after. Giving birth to a sickly daughter who died within weeks of birth, Elisabeth languished under house arrest before dying of a lingering infection from childbirth. Her only surviving child, the Princess Margaret, was granted Hunyad Castle.
[4] Andrew of Hungary was interested in a match with the Hapsburgs following the death of his wife, but wanted to marry a woman beautiful enough to maintain his attentions. He was uninterested in the Holy Roman Emperor's sisters due to his perception of their homeliness, in particular refusing a match with the Archduchess Maria, who he described as graceless and horselike. He did, however, accept a match with the widow of Ferdinand II of Aragon, Germaine of Foix, after meeting her in Italy in 1518, attending the wedding of Ferdinand of Austria and Bona Sforza. The Emperor dowered his step-grandmother well, and they would have a son in 1520, securing the dynasty.
[5] Margaret of Hungary was, in short words, a catch. Rich, well connected, an heiress in her own right, she was betrothed in 1516 to Charles of Austria, soon to be Holy Roman Emperor, and in 1519 to the Dauphin of France. Then, in 1524, after the death of Claude of France, her father arranged for her to marry Francis I of France himself, in exchange for their children only being the heirs to Naples. The match was set until Francis was captured by the Hapsburgs, and in annoyance Andrew returned to that alliance, betrothing his daughter to the Filippa of Austria, the son of Ferdinand of Austria and Bona Sforza, who by 1528 was the heir to Milan. Throwing his backing specifically behind Ferdinand for Milan, he saw Margaret married to Filippo in 1533, three days after the groom's 14th birthday and shortly before the Princess' 19th. The marriage would not be consummated until 1535, when the dowry was paid in full. Margaret would only have two surviving children, partially because of the long stretches her husband was fighting to protect their throne in Naples.
[6] Louis of Hungary married Barbara of Brandenburg, eldest daughter of the Elector of Brandenburg, as a way to resolve underlying issues that had occurred when his grandfather had annulled a marriage to a different Barbara of Brandenburg to marry Beatrice of Naples. This was not the obvious choice of the future King, who had been engaged to a Princess of France since 1531, but much of Andrew's policies were built around resolving tensions where possible to prevent further bloodshed. Louis and Barbara were distant in their relationship, with the Queen complaining she often felt more like a broodmare than a bride. After their youngest child, the Princess Beatrice, was born, she bought Hunyad Castle from Margaret of Hungary and settled her own court separate from her husband and her children.
There are two PODs to this. 1). Anne Neville lives and gives birth to Richard III’s posthumous son (Richard) in 1486. 2). Elizabeth gives birth to a girl (Margaret), the delivery is hard and leaves her unable to become pregnant again. Henry VII later decides to marry Richard to Margaret to unite the claims and secure his crown:
Queen Margaret I of England (1486-1537) M. King Richard IV of England (1486-1542) [1], had issue
1. King Henry VIII of England (1503-1560) M. Beatrice of Portugal (1504-1559), had issue
1. King Richard V of England (1520-1581) M. Queen Elizabeth I of Scotland (1524-1579)
2. Princess Beatrice of England (1527-1590) M. Holy Roman Emperor Philip II (1525-1598)
2. Princess Elizabeth of England (1505-1555) M. King James V of Scotland (1498-1539) [2], had issue
1. King James VI of England (1521-1540), never married
2. Queen Elizabeth I of Scotland (1524-1579) [3] M. King Richard V of England (1520-1581)
3. Prince Edward, Duke of York (1507-1557) M. Elizabeth Grey, Viscountess Lisle (1505-1559, had issue
1. Henry, Duke of York (1521-1549) M. Lady Mary Howard (1519-1557)
2. Edmund, Earl of Rutland (1525-1579) M. Lady Anne Talbot (1524-1585)
4. Princess Anne of England (1509-1559) M. Holy Roman Emperor Charles V (1500-1558), had issue
1. Holy Roman Emperor Philip II (1525-1598) M. a). Anne, Duchess of Lorraine (1522-1548) [4], b). Princess Beatrice of England (1527–1590)
2. Archduchess Anna of Austria (1527-1575) M. King Miguel II of Iberia (1527-1577)
3. Archduchess Maria of Austria (1530-1567). M. King Maximilian I of Hungary and Bohemia (1527-1576) [5]
4. Archduke Charles of Austria (1533-1550), never married
5. Princess Margaret of England (1511-1547) M. King John III of Iberia (1513-1576) [6], had issue
1. King Miguel II of Iberia (1527-1577) [7] M. Archduchess Anna of Austria (1527-1575)
…
[1] I wasn’t sure how he’d be numbered so I went with Richard IV for simplicity.
[2] Alt daughter of James IV and Katherine of York.
[3] James V has no surviving brothers and the Albany line dies out as per OTL.
[4] Anne’s brother die young here.
[5] OTL Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian II, here he is only King of Bohemia and Hungary since Charles doesn’t give up the Empire title.
[6] Alt son of Miguel de Paz and Eleanor of Austria
[7] Miguel II’s parents are lucky with children.
I know it’s not the most accurate/plausible tree, but it was a fun idea that hit me (so much so that I might make it into a timeline one day).
Queen Margaret I of England (1486-1537) M. King Richard IV of England (1486-1542) [1], had issue
1. King Henry VIII of England (1503-1560) M. Beatrice of Portugal (1504-1559), had issue
1. King Richard V of England (1520-1581) M. Queen Elizabeth I of Scotland (1524-1579)
2. Princess Beatrice of England (1527-1590) M. Holy Roman Emperor Philip II (1525-1598)
2. Princess Elizabeth of England (1505-1555) M. King James V of Scotland (1498-1539) [2], had issue
1. King James VI of England (1521-1540), never married
2. Queen Elizabeth I of Scotland (1524-1579) [3] M. King Richard V of England (1520-1581)
3. Prince Edward, Duke of York (1507-1557) M. Elizabeth Grey, Viscountess Lisle (1505-1559, had issue
1. Henry, Duke of York (1521-1549) M. Lady Mary Howard (1519-1557)
2. Edmund, Earl of Rutland (1525-1579) M. Lady Anne Talbot (1524-1585)
4. Princess Anne of England (1509-1559) M. Holy Roman Emperor Charles V (1500-1558), had issue
1. Holy Roman Emperor Philip II (1525-1598) M. a). Anne, Duchess of Lorraine (1522-1548) [4], b). Princess Beatrice of England (1527–1590)
2. Archduchess Anna of Austria (1527-1575) M. King Miguel II of Iberia (1527-1577)
3. Archduchess Maria of Austria (1530-1567). M. King Maximilian I of Hungary and Bohemia (1527-1576) [5]
4. Archduke Charles of Austria (1533-1550), never married
5. Princess Margaret of England (1511-1547) M. King John III of Iberia (1513-1576) [6], had issue
1. King Miguel II of Iberia (1527-1577) [7] M. Archduchess Anna of Austria (1527-1575)
…
[1] I wasn’t sure how he’d be numbered so I went with Richard IV for simplicity.
[2] Alt daughter of James IV and Katherine of York.
[3] James V has no surviving brothers and the Albany line dies out as per OTL.
[4] Anne’s brother die young here.
[5] OTL Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian II, here he is only King of Bohemia and Hungary since Charles doesn’t give up the Empire title.
[6] Alt son of Miguel de Paz and Eleanor of Austria
[7] Miguel II’s parents are lucky with children.
I know it’s not the most accurate/plausible tree, but it was a fun idea that hit me (so much so that I might make it into a timeline one day).
Philip I of France m. Clementia of Aquitaine
Maria Haraldsdatter m. Robert Curthose[1]
1. Daughter of Harald Hardrada.
Maria Haraldsdatter m. Robert Curthose[1]
1. Daughter of Harald Hardrada.
The Queens take it all!
I know it’s very unlikely, not to say ASB but here it is :
Francis I of France is killed in Marignano in September 1515, leaving a young widow and a newborn daughter.
Butterflies:
The new King of France, Charles IX, gets an annulment from the Pope in 1522 and remarries Claude of France.
Little Elizabeth Tudor dies in 1534.
Catherine of Aragon lives another ten years.
Henry VIII dies in the January 1536 tournament and Anne Boleyn miscarries and dies the same month.
France
Claude of France, Duchess of Brittany (1499-1540) m. a) Francis I, King of France (1494-1515) b) Charles IX, King of France (1485-1535)
1a) Louise of France, Duchess of Brittany (1515-1562)
England
Henry VIII Tudor, King of England (1491-1536) m. a) Catherine of Aragon (1485-1546) b) Anne Boleyn (1501-1536) p. c) Elizabeth Blount (1500-1540)
1a) stillborn daughter (1510)
2a) Henry, Duke of Cornwall (1511)
3a) son (1513)
4a) son (1514)
5a) Mary I Tudor, Queen of England (1516-1558)
6a) stillborn daughter (1518)
7c) Henry FitzRoy, 1st Duke of Richmond and Somerset (1519-1536)
8b) Elizabeth Tudor (1533-1534)
9b) miscarriage (1534)
10b) miscarriage (1535)
11b) miscarriage (1536)
I'm unsure who Louise of France, Mary of England and even the repudiated Margaret of Angoulême would marry here.
I know it’s very unlikely, not to say ASB but here it is :
Francis I of France is killed in Marignano in September 1515, leaving a young widow and a newborn daughter.
Butterflies:
The new King of France, Charles IX, gets an annulment from the Pope in 1522 and remarries Claude of France.
Little Elizabeth Tudor dies in 1534.
Catherine of Aragon lives another ten years.
Henry VIII dies in the January 1536 tournament and Anne Boleyn miscarries and dies the same month.
France
Claude of France, Duchess of Brittany (1499-1540) m. a) Francis I, King of France (1494-1515) b) Charles IX, King of France (1485-1535)
1a) Louise of France, Duchess of Brittany (1515-1562)
England
Henry VIII Tudor, King of England (1491-1536) m. a) Catherine of Aragon (1485-1546) b) Anne Boleyn (1501-1536) p. c) Elizabeth Blount (1500-1540)
1a) stillborn daughter (1510)
2a) Henry, Duke of Cornwall (1511)
3a) son (1513)
4a) son (1514)
5a) Mary I Tudor, Queen of England (1516-1558)
6a) stillborn daughter (1518)
7c) Henry FitzRoy, 1st Duke of Richmond and Somerset (1519-1536)
8b) Elizabeth Tudor (1533-1534)
9b) miscarriage (1534)
10b) miscarriage (1535)
11b) miscarriage (1536)
I'm unsure who Louise of France, Mary of England and even the repudiated Margaret of Angoulême would marry here.
Deleted member 147978
Or perhaps Infante Luis, Duque de Beja according to word of mouth on here.
Maybe, it would have to happen during her reign, I can’t see Henry marrying Mary abroad.
He’d probably be the most likely suitor, especially since his Father was friends with Henry VIII in OTL.
I like the idea of a Mary & Luis match.
As her father's only legitimate child, I wonder if an English suitor would be good enough - unless he's in the line of succession of course. And I'm not sure Catherine would marry her daughter a friend of Henry's.
Well, Henry's dying in January 1536 and Catherine survives here so Mary may end up with Luis.
Re James V, is a marriage to Louise of France plausible? Or maybe to Renée?
Courtenay had descent from Edward IV, so he was in line of succesion.
So we'll get king Edward VI iure uxoris or simple prince-consort?
Edward of Courtenay was likely in the succession thanks to his descend from Katherine of York.
Hmm true, Katherine would like to see Mary marry one of her nephews. The fact that Mary is 11 years older than Edward might also prevent the marriage from happening.
Probably. There were negotiations for Renée to marry James in OTL IIRC.
Probably jure uxoris.
True, though as you say, the age gap may be too important. But I can see Catherine of Aragon advising Mary to name Henry Courtenay to an important post thanks to his wife's faithfulness to her cause.
So we'd have the following tree:
France and Scotland
Louis XII, King of France (1462-1515) m. a) Joan of France, Duchess of Berry (1464-1505) b) Anne, Duchess of Brittany (1477-1514) c) Mary Tudor (1496-1533)
1b) Claude of France, Duchess of Brittany (1499-1540) m. a) Francis I, King of France (1494-1515) b) Charles IX, King of France (1485-1535)
1a) Louise of France, Duchess of Brittany and Milan (1515-1562) m. Francesco II Sforza, Duke of Milan (1495-1535)
2b) Renée of France, Queen of Scotland (1510-1574) m. James V, King of Scotland (1512-1565)1a) James Stewart, Duke of Rothesay (1527-1530)
2a) Alexander IV, King of Scotland (1529-1601)
3a) Renée Stewart (1530-1569)
4a) Anne Stewart (1531-1584)
5a) stillborn daughter (1533)
6a) James Stewart, Duke of Albany (1537-1587)
England
Henry VIII Tudor, King of England (1491-1536) m. a) Catherine of Aragon (1485-1546) b) Anne Boleyn (1501-1536) p. c) Elizabeth Blount (1500-1540)
1a) stillborn daughter (1510)
2a) Henry, Duke of Cornwall (1511)
3a) son (1513)
4a) son (1514)
5a) Mary I Tudor, Queen of England (1516-1558) m. Luis, Duke of Beja and King of England jure uxoris as Louis I (1506-1555)
1a) Henry, Prince of Wales (1538-1592)
2a) Louis of England (1540-1578)
3a) Mary of England (1543-1546)
4a) Catherine of England (1547-1581)
6a) stillborn daughter (1518)7c) Henry FitzRoy, 1st Duke of Richmond and Somerset (1519-1536)
8b) Elizabeth Tudor (1533-1534)
9b) miscarriage (1534)
10b) miscarriage (1535)
11b) miscarriage (1536)
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A re-do of the my New Year Prince lived scenario
WIP as always…
POD: Henry, Duke of Cornwall, son of Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon lived
Henry VIII, King of England (b. 1491) married a) Catherine of Aragon (1485-1536) in 1509 b) Maria of Viseu (b. 1521)
** he is our don Carlos, Prince of Asturias who here lived enough for becoming King of Portugal after his cousin Sebastian‘s death but not enough for succeeding to his father on the Spanish throne
NOTES
Henry VII here sealed his peace with France in 1513 with an engagement between his heir and Louis XII’ younger daughter meaning who the match between Charles V and Henry‘s sister Mary Tudor will go ahead as planned. The engagement between Henry and Renee will end after her father’s death and he will be engaged to her nieces Louise and Charlotte and after them to his cousin Margaret of Spain.
The proposed match between Eleanor of Austria and John of Portugal would still fail and she would marry his father as OTL, while John would later marry her youngest sister Catherine when Charles V remarried to Isabella of Portugal (at least for now)
I will try to add an Habsburg tree for this scenario soon, but the main changes from OTL are
WIP as always…
POD: Henry, Duke of Cornwall, son of Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon lived
Henry VIII, King of England (b. 1491) married a) Catherine of Aragon (1485-1536) in 1509 b) Maria of Viseu (b. 1521)
- a) Henry, Prince of Wales (1511-1537) married Margaret of Spain (1515-1538)*
- a) Mary (b. 1516) married Francis III, Duke of Brittany (1518-1536)
- b) Edward VI, King of England (b. 1538) married Elizabeth of France (b. 1545)
- b) Elizabeth (b. 1541) married Robert IV, King of Scotland (b. 1541)
- b) Eleanor (b. 1541) married married Charles I of Spain, King of Portugal (1545-1580)**
** he is our don Carlos, Prince of Asturias who here lived enough for becoming King of Portugal after his cousin Sebastian‘s death but not enough for succeeding to his father on the Spanish throne
NOTES
Henry VII here sealed his peace with France in 1513 with an engagement between his heir and Louis XII’ younger daughter meaning who the match between Charles V and Henry‘s sister Mary Tudor will go ahead as planned. The engagement between Henry and Renee will end after her father’s death and he will be engaged to her nieces Louise and Charlotte and after them to his cousin Margaret of Spain.
The proposed match between Eleanor of Austria and John of Portugal would still fail and she would marry his father as OTL, while John would later marry her youngest sister Catherine when Charles V remarried to Isabella of Portugal (at least for now)
I will try to add an Habsburg tree for this scenario soon, but the main changes from OTL are
- Maximilian I‘s ATL wife being Maria of Spain, Duchess of Burgundy (b. 1524), younger daughter of Charles V and Mary Tudor, with Philip and Joanna as the only surviving children of Charles and Isabella.
- Philip II remarriages (most likely to Margaret of France and Christina of Denmark)
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