List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage

Cate13 · Mar 27, 2021

Like @FalconHonour I did a family tree for the Plantagenets in a world where Edmund of Rutland survives.

Here's my attempt at a family tree: The Plantagenets and the Many Mistresses. Let me know what you think

Edward IV, King of England, b. 1442, d. 1495 married firstly a) Marie de Foix, b. 1443, d. 1466; married secondly Mary of Scotland, b. 1453; relations with Mabel Parr, b. 1450; relations with Anne Tuchet, b. 1446

Edward IV has two main mistresses: Mabel and Anne. Mabel is the royal mistress through most of the 1460s. When Edward starts to loose interest she gets pregnant to try and keep his attention. It works for a few years and then she's married off. Anne comes to Edward's attention as a rather pretty widow without children: the ideal mistress in his mind. Anne kept his attention from early in the 1470s till his death in 1495.

With Queen Mary (first wife):

Edward of Wales, b. 1463, d. 1476

Elinor of York, b. 1467

With Queen Mary (second wife):

Edmund I, King of England, b. 1470

Richard of York, Duke of York, b. 1473

Margaret of York, b. 1476

Cecily of York, b. 1482

William of York, Duke of Bedford, b. 1487

With Mistress Mabel Parr:

Jane Plantagenet, b. 1467

With Mistress Anne Tuchet:

Constance Plantagenet, b. 1474

Margaret Plantagenet, b. 1477

John Plantagenet, b. 1481

Edmund, Duke of Clarence, Earl of Rutland and Ulster, b. 1443 married to Marie of Brittany, b. 1444, d. 1477; relations with and later married to b) Lady Anne Butler, b. 1455

Edmund was never very fond of his Breton wife, and spent quite a lot of time at his estates in Ireland. That's where he met the lovely Anne Butler. She would become his mistress early in 1470 and give birth to their eldest son in December. He would establish her in his Irish holdings as Lady of the House shortly before being recalled to England for a few years. They would write extensive letters, and as soon as he could Edmund would return to Ireland (leaving behind a pregnant Marie of Brittany). Shortly after Marie's death, Edmund would wed Lady Anne. As a favor to his favorite brother, Edward would legitimize Edmund and Anne's eldest two children, though neither were allowed claim on Edmund's property. So, their eldest James was given Anne's father's title.

Due to Edmund's regular presence in Ireland, his children by Marie would be entrusted to George of Clarence, though in reality, George's wife Margaret would be the one doing the raising.

With Lady Mary:

Edward of Clarence, Duke of Clarence, b. 1464

John of Clarence, Earl of Rutland, b. 1466

Mary of Clarence, b. 1473

With Lady Anne (legitimized):

James Plantagenet, Earl of Ormond, b. 1470

Cecily Plantagenet, b. 1476

With Lady Anne (legitimate):

Elizabeth of Ulster, b. 1479

Thomas of Ulster, Earl of Ulster, b. 1481

William of Ulster, b. 1483

Joan of Ulster, 1488

Anne of Ulster, b. 1491

George, Duke of Bedford, b. 1449 married to Lady Margaret Beaufort, b. 1443 with no issue; relations with Helen Parks, b. 1445; relations with Lady Joyce Percy; relations with Elizabeth Woodville, b. 1437

Frustrated with his barren wife, George cycled through several mistresses (Helen was the daughter of a merchant and Joyce was a distant cousin of the Earl of Northumberland) before settling on the beautiful Elizabeth Woodville as his long-term mistress. (Many believe Elizabeth was chosen since she was the one to bear him a son). Unfortunately for George, his wife Margaret would outlive him, and he would not be offered the opportunity to remarry.

With Mistress Helen:

Cecily Plantagenet, b. 1469

With Lady Joyce:

Catherine Plantagenet, b. 1470

With Lady Elizabeth:

George Plantagenet, b. 1471

Jacquetta Plantagenet, b. 1473

Edward Plantagenet, b. 1476

Francis Plantagenet, b. 1478

Richard, Duke of Gloucester, b. 1452 married to Lady Anne Neville, b. 1456; relations with Alice Burgh, b. 1443; relations with Katherine Huate, b. 1452

Unlike his brothers, Richard of Gloucester would remain faithful to his wife Anne; his bastard children having been born before his marriage. As such, neither Alice nor Katherine had great influence.

With Lady Anne:

Alice of Gloucester, b. 1474

Richard of Gloucester, b. 1476, d. 1476

Ralph of Gloucester, Duke of Gloucester, b. 1476

Edward of Gloucester, Earl of Warrick, b. 1481

With Mistress Alice:

John Plantagenet, b. 1468

With Mistress Katherine:

Katherine Plantagenet, b. 1471

Virginia Liberal · Mar 27, 2021

British Royal Family from (God Save these American States)

George (IV) Augustus Frederick Hanover-m(8-18-1790)-Princess Frederica Louise Wilhelmina Orange-Nassau

Duke of Mann Henry (Lionheart) Edward Augustus (Born 3/20/1792)-m(3/20/1816)-Anna Pavlovna Holstein-Gottorp-Romanov
- Eleanor Augusta Duchess of Cambridge (Born 5/7/1817)
- Anna Elizabeth Duchess of Sussex (Born 11-12-1819)
- Charles Edward Frederck (Born 2/28/1820)
- Elizabeth Anna (Born 4/21/22)
- George Peter William (Born 10/31/1825)
- Mary Williamina (Born 07/181829(
Richard (IV) William Edward (Born 10/10/1793)-m(10/10/1819)-Sophie of Sweden
- Henry Edward Alexander (Born 7/8/1821)
- Robert Albert William (Born 9/21/1824)
- Alexandria Elizabeth (Born 5/30/1827)
Princess Emily Marie (Born 4/1/1796)
Princess Wilhelmina Amelia (Born 4/1/1796)

CaptainShadow · Mar 28, 2021

Cate13 said:
Le Snip

Looks decent to me but why is there a dearth of Cecilys? The only one present is illegitimate.

Cate13 · Mar 28, 2021

CaptainShadow said:
Looks decent to me but why is there a dearth of Cecilys? The only one present is illegitimate.

I think I forgot, I’ll add a few in.

Kellan Sullivan · Mar 28, 2021

Cate13 said:
Like @FalconHonour I did a family tree for the Plantagenets in a world where Edmund of Rutland survives.

Here's my attempt at a family tree: The Plantagenets and the Many Mistresses. Let me know what you think

Edward IV, King of England, b. 1442, d. 1495 married firstly a) Marie de Foix, b. 1443, d. 1466; married secondly Mary of Scotland, b. 1453; relations with Mabel Parr, b. 1450; relations with Anne Tuchet, b. 1446

Edward IV has two main mistresses: Mabel and Anne. Mabel is the royal mistress through most of the 1460s. When Edward starts to loose interest she gets pregnant to try and keep his attention. It works for a few years and then she's married off. Anne comes to Edward's attention as a rather pretty widow without children: the ideal mistress in his mind. Anne kept his attention from early in the 1470s till his death in 1495.

With Queen Mary (first wife):

Edward of Wales, b. 1463, d. 1476

Elinor of York, b. 1467

With Queen Mary (second wife):

Edmund I, King of England, b. 1470

Richard of York, Duke of York, b. 1473

Margaret of York, b. 1476

Cecily of York, b. 1482

William of York, Duke of Bedford, b. 1487

With Mistress Mabel Parr:

Jane Plantagenet, b. 1467

With Mistress Anne Tuchet:

Constance Plantagenet, b. 1474

Margaret Plantagenet, b. 1477

John Plantagenet, b. 1481

Edmund, Duke of Clarence, Earl of Rutland and Ulster, b. 1443 married to Marie of Brittany, b. 1444, d. 1477; relations with and later married to b) Lady Anne Butler, b. 1455

Edmund was never very fond of his Breton wife, and spent quite a lot of time at his estates in Ireland. That's where he met the lovely Anne Butler. She would become his mistress early in 1470 and give birth to their eldest son in December. He would establish her in his Irish holdings as Lady of the House shortly before being recalled to England for a few years. They would write extensive letters, and as soon as he could Edmund would return to Ireland (leaving behind a pregnant Marie of Brittany). Shortly after Marie's death, Edmund would wed Lady Anne. As a favor to his favorite brother, Edward would legitimize Edmund and Anne's eldest two children, though neither were allowed claim on Edmund's property. So, their eldest James was given Anne's father's title.

Due to Edmund's regular presence in Ireland, his children by Marie would be entrusted to George of Clarence, though in reality, George's wife Margaret would be the one doing the raising.

With Lady Mary:

Edward of Clarence, Duke of Clarence, b. 1464

John of Clarence, Earl of Rutland, b. 1466

Mary of Clarence, b. 1473

With Lady Anne (legitimized):

James Plantagenet, Earl of Ormond, b. 1470

Cecily Plantagenet, b. 1476

With Lady Anne (legitimate):

Elizabeth of Ulster, b. 1479

Thomas of Ulster, Earl of Ulster, b. 1481

William of Ulster, b. 1483

Joan of Ulster, 1488

Anne of Ulster, b. 1491

George, Duke of Bedford, b. 1449 married to Lady Margaret Beaufort, b. 1443 with no issue; relations with Helen Parks, b. 1445; relations with Lady Joyce Percy; relations with Elizabeth Woodville, b. 1437

Frustrated with his barren wife, George cycled through several mistresses (Helen was the daughter of a merchant and Joyce was a distant cousin of the Earl of Northumberland) before settling on the beautiful Elizabeth Woodville as his long-term mistress. (Many believe Elizabeth was chosen since she was the one to bear him a son). Unfortunately for George, his wife Margaret would outlive him, and he would not be offered the opportunity to remarry.

With Mistress Helen:

Cecily Plantagenet, b. 1469

With Lady Joyce:

Catherine Plantagenet, b. 1470

With Lady Elizabeth:

George Plantagenet, b. 1471

Jacquetta Plantagenet, b. 1473

Edward Plantagenet, b. 1476

Francis Plantagenet, b. 1478

Richard, Duke of Gloucester, b. 1452 married to Lady Anne Neville, b. 1456; relations with Alice Burgh, b. 1443; relations with Katherine Huate, b. 1452

Unlike his brothers, Richard of Gloucester would remain faithful to his wife Anne; his bastard children having been born before his marriage. As such, neither Alice nor Katherine had great influence.

With Lady Anne:

Alice of Gloucester, b. 1474

Richard of Gloucester, b. 1476, d. 1476

Ralph of Gloucester, Duke of Gloucester, b. 1476

Edward of Gloucester, Earl of Warrick, b. 1481

With Mistress Alice:

John Plantagenet, b. 1468

With Mistress Katherine:

Katherine Plantagenet, b. 1471

Who marries Isabel Neville here?

CaptainShadow · Mar 28, 2021

Kellan Sullivan said:
Who marries Isabel Neville here?

FalconHonour said:
1) Lady Isabel Neville (1451-1476) m 1469 Henry Stafford, Duke of Buckingham (b.1455)

Humphrey, Earl Stafford(b.1470)

Anne (b.1472)

Miscarriage (1473)

Isabel (b.1475)

Henry (b.and d.1476)

Cate13 · Mar 28, 2021

Kellan Sullivan said:
Who marries Isabel Neville here?

@FalconHonour's tree from the same prompt has Isabel marrying Henry Stafford. (That's what @CaptainShadow quoted) But for my tree, I'm not sure yet. Any suggestions?

CaptainShadow · Mar 28, 2021

Cate13 said:
@FalconHonour's tree from the same prompt has Isabel marrying Henry Stafford. (That's what @CaptainShadow quoted) But for my tree, I'm not sure yet. Any suggestions?

Most likely a nunnery, otherwise her cousin George.

Kellan Sullivan · Mar 28, 2021

Cate13 said:
@FalconHonour's tree from the same prompt has Isabel marrying Henry Stafford. (That's what @CaptainShadow quoted) But for my tree, I'm not sure yet. Any suggestions?

Remember reading a Lancastrian victory TL (George and Edward IV killed at Tewkesbury, her dad survives) where she wound up married to Jasper Tudor. And another where George also dies somehow and she gets married to Antony Wydeville. But I'm guessing neither of those is possible here

Cate13 · Mar 28, 2021

CaptainShadow said:
Most likely a nunnery, otherwise her cousin George.

I can't see Warrick sending either of his daughters to a nunnery, when he could gain political clout from a marriage.

CaptainShadow · Mar 28, 2021

Cate13 said:
I can't see Warrick sending either of his daughters to a nunnery, when he could gain political clout from a marriage.

Ttl he's got all the political clout one could reasonably have, heck he probably ends up a duke as well and his neices are likely to take the places of the Woodville girls ttl, and if sending one daughter means he's able to have a *royal* duke as son in law......well not feeling him not doing it. Edward likely insists on it anyway.

But if you really want Isabel to make a political match, James III could a negotiated for especially if the Yorks manage to consolidate even earlier than OTL. George Neville is as above a possibility, or 3rd Shrewsbury. She may even be used as a proxy to continental lords.

Cate13 · Mar 28, 2021

CaptainShadow said:
But if you really want Isabel to make a political match, James III could a negotiated for especially if the Yorks manage to consolidate even earlier than OTL. George Neville is as above a possibility, or 3rd Shrewsbury. She may even be used as a proxy to continental lords.

True, if Warwick and Edward never ‘break up’ then Isabel would be a good English proxy.

FalconHonour · Mar 28, 2021

Kellan Sullivan said:
Who marries Isabel Neville here?

Cate13 said:
@FalconHonour's tree from the same prompt has Isabel marrying Henry Stafford. (That's what @CaptainShadow quoted) But for my tree, I'm not sure yet. Any suggestions?

Yeah, I went for Henry Stafford. The Woodvilles might appear at Court as the Duchess of Clarence's cousins, and they might even snag a Baron/Earl or two in the marriage market, but they're not getting a Duke, which leaves Buckingham free for Isabel.

isabella · Mar 29, 2021

FalconHonour said:
Yeah, I went for Henry Stafford. The Woodvilles might appear at Court as the Duchess of Clarence's cousins, and they might even snag a Baron/Earl or two in the marriage market, but they're not getting a Duke, which leaves Buckingham free for Isabel.

Barons are at their same social level (Richard Woodville was raised as Baron in 1448 and became a Knight of the Garter in 1450) and considering their mother’s bloodline Viscounts also are fair game for them. Marrying Earls would be a great match for them, but lower are exactly at their level (Elizabeth, Jacquetta and Anthony all married heirs or holders of baronies)

mcdnab · Mar 29, 2021

As Isabella said the children who married before Elizabeth married the King all married within the same social circles - even after the Queen's marriage there were existing familial links with some of her sister's husbands.

Kynan · Mar 31, 2021

Scenario: Surviving Francis III, Duke of Brittany.

Francis I, King of France (b.1494: d.1547) m. Claude, Duchess of Brittany (b.1499: d.1524) (a), Eleanor, Archduchess of Austria (b.1498: d.1558) (b)

1a) Louise, Princess of France (b.1515: d.1517)

2a) Charlotte, Princess of France (b.1516: d.1524)

3a) Francis II, King of France (b.1518: d.1579) m. Isabella Jagiellon (b.1519: d.1557) (a), Léonore de Bourbon (b.1532: d.1611) (b)

1a) Charles IX, King of France (b.1543: d.1582) m. Mary I, Queen of Scotland (b.1542: d.1596) (a)

1a) Francis III, King of France (b.1563)

2a) Isabella, Princess of France and Scotland (b.1566)

3a) Stillborn Son (c.1567)

4a) James, Prince of France and Scotland (b.1570: d.1571)

5a) Charles I, King of Scotland (b.1573)

6a) Stillborn Son (c.1573)

7a) Marie, Princess of Scotland (b.1575: d.1583)

8a) Robert, Duke of Anjou and Ross (b.1578)

2a) Elisabeth, Princess of France (b.1544: d.1552)

3a) Stillborn Son (c.1545)

4a) Anne, Princess of France (b.1547: d.1617) m. Philip II, King of Spain (b.1527: d.1598) (a)

1a) Isabella, Infanta of Spain (b.1565: d.1566)

2a) Stillborn Son (b.1566)

3a) Margaret, Infanta of Spain (b.1568)

4a) Philip, Infante of Spain (b.1571: d.1576)

5a) Ferdinand III, King of Spain (b.1575)

6a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1577)

7a) Stillborn Son (c.1579)

8a) Juana, Infanta of Spain (b.1580: d.1592)

5a) Henri, Duke of Anjou (b.1548: d.1563)

- never married, had no issue

6a) Francis I, King of Poland and Duke of Angouleme (b.1550: d.1611) m. Maria Claudia, Princess of Poland (b.1553: d.1606) (a)

- had issue

7a) Charlotte, Princess of France (b.1553: d.1584) m. Henri III, King of Navarre (b.1553: d.1619) (a)

1a) Stillborn Son (c.1576)

2a) Antoine, Prince of Navarre (b.1579: d.1586)

3a) Henri IV, King of Navarre (b.1582)

8a) Stillborn Son (c.1554)

9a) Catherine, Princess of France (b.1556: d.1557)

10b) Jeanne, Princess of France (b.1560: d.1611) m. Philip III, Duke of Savoy (b.1557: d.1580) (a), François de Bourbon, Prince of Conti (b.1558: d.1614) (b)

1a) Charles Francis I, Duke of Savoy (b.1577)

2a) Stillborn Son (c.1580)

3b) Victoria de Bourbon (b.1584)

4b) Stillborn Son (c.1586)

5b) Jean de Bourbon, Prince of Conti (b.1589)

6b) Miscarriage (c.1590)

11b) Stillborn Son (c.1562)

12b) Louis, Duke of Brittany (b.1565: d.1621) m. Charlotte de La Marck, Duchess of Bouillon (b.1574: d.1599) (a), Marie de Bourbon, Duchess of Montpensier (b.1604) (b)

1a) Claude de Breton, Mademoiselle de Brittany (b.1594)

2a) Francis IV, Duke of Brittany (b.1597)

13b) Stillborn Son (c.1566)

14b) Marguerite, Princess of France (b.1568: d.1570)

4a) Henri, Duke of Orleans (b.1519: d.1575) m. Catherine de Medici (b.1519: d.1589) (a)

1a) Francis, Duke of Orleans (b.1544: d.1560)

- never married, had no issue

2a) Elisabeth d'Orleans (b.1545: d.1572) m. Francis I, Duke of Guise (b.1550: d.1598) (a)

1a) Stillborn Son (c.1561)

2a) Marie de Guise (b.1563)

3a) Miscarriage (c.1565)

4a) Isabelle de Guise (b.1566)

5a) Francis II, Duke of Guise (b.1567)

6a) Louis de Guise (b.1570: d.1570)

7a) Miscarriage (c.1571)

3a) Claude d'Orleans (b.1547: d.1575) m. Charles III, Duke of Lorraine (b.1543: d.1608) (a)

1a) Henri II, Duke of Lorraine (b.1563: d.1624)

2a) Christina of Lorraine (b.1565)

3a) Charles of Lorraine (b.1567)

4a) Antonia of Lorraine (b.1568)

5a) Anne of Lorraine (b.1569: d.1574)

6a) Francis of Lorraine (b.1572)

7a) Catherine of Lorraine (b.1573)

8a) Elisabeth of Lorraine (b.1574)

9a) Claude of Lorraine (b.1575: d.1576)

4a) Louis d'Orleans (b.1549: d.1550)

5a) Charles d'Orleans, Duke of Orleans (b.1550: d.1584) m. Catherine de Guise (b.1551: d.1596) (a)

1a) Catherine d'Orleans (b.1574)

2a) Henriette d'Orleans (b.1577: d.1581)

3a) Anne d'Orleans (b.1582)

6a) Henri d'Orleans, Duke of Berry (b.1551: d.1582)

- never married, had no issue

7a) Margaret d'Orleans (b.1553: d.1615) m. Karl Friedrich of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (b.1555: d.1575) (a)

1a) William II, Duke of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (b.1572)

2a) Isabella of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (b.1574)

8a) Hercules d'Orleans, Archbishop of Paris (b.1555: d.1608)

- never married, had no issue

9a) Victoria d'Orleans (b.1556: d.1556) - twin

10a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1556) - twin

5a) Madeleine, Princess of France (b.1520: d.1537) m. James V, King of Scotland (b.1512: d.1542) (a)

- had no issue

6a) Charles, Duke of Angouleme (b.1522: d.1545)

- never married, had no issue

7a) Margaret, Princess of France (b.1523: d.1574) m. Sigismund II Augustus, King of Poland (b.1520: d.1572) (a)

1a) Maria Claudia, Princess of Poland (b.1553: d.1606) m. Ernest, Archduke of Austria (b.1553: d.1572) (a), Francis I, King of Poland and Duke of Angouleme (b.1550: d.1611) (b)

1a) Stillborn Son (c.1572)

2b) Catherine, Princess of Poland (b.1575: d.1595)

- never married, had no issue

3b) Isabella, Princess of Poland (b.1579: d.1579)

4b) Sigismund, Prince of Poland (b.1580: d.1590)

5b) Maria, Princess of Poland (b.1583: d.1587)

6b) Stillborn Son (c.1585)

7b) Margaret, Princess of Poland (b.1589: d.1601)

8b) Anne, Princess of Poland (b.1592: d.1610) m. Władysław IV Vasa, King of Poland (b.1595: d.1648) (a)

- had no issue

9b) Stillborn Son (c.1594)

10b) Helena, Princess of Poland (b.1597: d.1630) m. Władysław IV Vasa, King of Poland (b.1595: d.1648) (a)

1a) Stillborn Son (c.1613)

2a) Sigismund Vasa, Prince of Poland (b.1616)

3a) Stillborn Son (c.1618)

4a) Ursula Vasa, Princess of Poland (b.1622: d.1627)

5a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1625)

6a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1526)

7a) Barbara Vasa, Princess of Poland (b.1528: d.1540)

Jan Olbracht · Mar 31, 2021

Kynan said:
Scenario: Surviving Francis III, Duke of Brittany.

Francis I, King of France (b.1494: d.1547) m. Claude, Duchess of Brittany (b.1499: d.1524) (a), Eleanor, Archduchess of Austria (b.1498: d.1558) (b)

1a) Louise, Princess of France (b.1515: d.1517)

2a) Charlotte, Princess of France (b.1516: d.1524)

3a) Francis II, King of France (b.1518: d.1579) m. Isabella Jagiellon (b.1519: d.1557) (a), Léonore de Bourbon (b.1532: d.1611) (b)

1a) Charles IX, King of France (b.1543: d.1582) m. Mary I, Queen of Scotland (b.1542: d.1596) (a)

1a) Francis III, King of France (b.1563)

2a) Isabella, Princess of France and Scotland (b.1566)

3a) Stillborn Son (c.1567)

4a) James, Prince of France and Scotland (b.1570: d.1571)

5a) Charles I, King of Scotland (b.1573)

6a) Stillborn Son (c.1573)

7a) Marie, Princess of Scotland (b.1575: d.1583)

8a) Robert, Duke of Anjou and Ross (b.1578)

2a) Elisabeth, Princess of France (b.1544: d.1552)

3a) Stillborn Son (c.1545)

4a) Anne, Princess of France (b.1547: d.1617) m. Philip II, King of Spain (b.1527: d.1598) (a)

1a) Isabella, Infanta of Spain (b.1565: d.1566)

2a) Stillborn Son (b.1566)

3a) Margaret, Infanta of Spain (b.1568)

4a) Philip, Infante of Spain (b.1571: d.1576)

5a) Ferdinand III, King of Spain (b.1575)

6a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1577)

7a) Stillborn Son (c.1579)

8a) Juana, Infanta of Spain (b.1580: d.1592)

5a) Henri, Duke of Anjou (b.1548: d.1563)

- never married, had no issue

6a) Francis I, King of Poland and Duke of Angouleme (b.1550: d.1611) m. Maria Claudia, Princess of Poland (b.1553: d.1606) (a)

- had issue

7a) Charlotte, Princess of France (b.1553: d.1584) m. Henri III, King of Navarre (b.1553: d.1619) (a)

1a) Stillborn Son (c.1576)

2a) Antoine, Prince of Navarre (b.1579: d.1586)

3a) Henri IV, King of Navarre (b.1582)

8a) Stillborn Son (c.1554)

9a) Catherine, Princess of France (b.1556: d.1557)

10b) Jeanne, Princess of France (b.1560: d.1611) m. Philip III, Duke of Savoy (b.1557: d.1580) (a), François de Bourbon, Prince of Conti (b.1558: d.1614) (b)

1a) Charles Francis I, Duke of Savoy (b.1577)

2a) Stillborn Son (c.1580)

3b) Victoria de Bourbon (b.1584)

4b) Stillborn Son (c.1586)

5b) Jean de Bourbon, Prince of Conti (b.1589)

6b) Miscarriage (c.1590)

11b) Stillborn Son (c.1562)

12b) Louis, Duke of Brittany (b.1565: d.1621) m. Charlotte de La Marck, Duchess of Bouillon (b.1574: d.1599) (a), Marie de Bourbon, Duchess of Montpensier (b.1604) (b)

1a) Claude de Breton, Mademoiselle de Brittany (b.1594)

2a) Francis IV, Duke of Brittany (b.1597)

13b) Stillborn Son (c.1566)

14b) Marguerite, Princess of France (b.1568: d.1570)

4a) Henri, Duke of Orleans (b.1519: d.1575) m. Catherine de Medici (b.1519: d.1589) (a)

1a) Francis, Duke of Orleans (b.1544: d.1560)

- never married, had no issue

2a) Elisabeth d'Orleans (b.1545: d.1572) m. Francis I, Duke of Guise (b.1550: d.1598) (a)

1a) Stillborn Son (c.1561)

2a) Marie de Guise (b.1563)

3a) Miscarriage (c.1565)

4a) Isabelle de Guise (b.1566)

5a) Francis II, Duke of Guise (b.1567)

6a) Louis de Guise (b.1570: d.1570)

7a) Miscarriage (c.1571)

3a) Claude d'Orleans (b.1547: d.1575) m. Charles III, Duke of Lorraine (b.1543: d.1608) (a)

1a) Henri II, Duke of Lorraine (b.1563: d.1624)

2a) Christina of Lorraine (b.1565)

3a) Charles of Lorraine (b.1567)

4a) Antonia of Lorraine (b.1568)

5a) Anne of Lorraine (b.1569: d.1574)

6a) Francis of Lorraine (b.1572)

7a) Catherine of Lorraine (b.1573)

8a) Elisabeth of Lorraine (b.1574)

9a) Claude of Lorraine (b.1575: d.1576)

4a) Louis d'Orleans (b.1549: d.1550)

5a) Charles d'Orleans, Duke of Orleans (b.1550: d.1584) m. Catherine de Guise (b.1551: d.1596) (a)

1a) Catherine d'Orleans (b.1574)

2a) Henriette d'Orleans (b.1577: d.1581)

3a) Anne d'Orleans (b.1582)

6a) Henri d'Orleans, Duke of Berry (b.1551: d.1582)

- never married, had no issue

7a) Margaret d'Orleans (b.1553: d.1615) m. Karl Friedrich of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (b.1555: d.1575) (a)

1a) William II, Duke of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (b.1572)

2a) Isabella of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (b.1574)

8a) Hercules d'Orleans, Archbishop of Paris (b.1555: d.1608)

- never married, had no issue

9a) Victoria d'Orleans (b.1556: d.1556) - twin

10a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1556) - twin

5a) Madeleine, Princess of France (b.1520: d.1537) m. James V, King of Scotland (b.1512: d.1542) (a)

- had no issue

6a) Charles, Duke of Angouleme (b.1522: d.1545)

- never married, had no issue

7a) Margaret, Princess of France (b.1523: d.1574) m. Sigismund II Augustus, King of Poland (b.1520: d.1572) (a)

1a) Maria Claudia, Princess of Poland (b.1553: d.1606) m. Ernest, Archduke of Austria (b.1553: d.1572) (a), Francis I, King of Poland and Duke of Angouleme (b.1550: d.1611) (b)

1a) Stillborn Son (c.1572)

2b) Catherine, Princess of Poland (b.1575: d.1595)

- never married, had no issue

3b) Isabella, Princess of Poland (b.1579: d.1579)

4b) Sigismund, Prince of Poland (b.1580: d.1590)

5b) Maria, Princess of Poland (b.1583: d.1587)

6b) Stillborn Son (c.1585)

7b) Margaret, Princess of Poland (b.1589: d.1601)

8b) Anne, Princess of Poland (b.1592: d.1610) m. Władysław IV Vasa, King of Poland (b.1595: d.1648) (a)

- had no issue

9b) Stillborn Son (c.1594)

10b) Helena, Princess of Poland (b.1597: d.1630) m. Władysław IV Vasa, King of Poland (b.1595: d.1648) (a)

1a) Stillborn Son (c.1613)

2a) Sigismund Vasa, Prince of Poland (b.1616)

3a) Stillborn Son (c.1618)

4a) Ursula Vasa, Princess of Poland (b.1622: d.1627)

5a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1625)

6a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1526)

7a) Barbara Vasa, Princess of Poland (b.1528: d.1540)

How have you get Władysław Vasa with such POD? He'd be butterflied away.

kasumigenx · Mar 31, 2021

Margaret II of Hainault and Holland[1] b. 1436 m. Edward IV(a)

1a. Elizabeth of York b. 1460

2a. Jacqueline of York b. 1461

3a. Cecily of York b. 1463

4a. Edward V b. 1464

5a. Margaret of York b. 1466

6a. Richard of York b. 1467

7a. Anne of York b. 1470

8a. George Plantagenet b. 1472

9a. Catherine of York b. 1476

10a. Bridget of York b. 1478

1. the daughter of Jacqueline of Hainault and her last husband, Charles the Bold does not do anything about the marriage due to it being done be Henry VI and Louis XI.

Jonathan · Mar 31, 2021

Kynan said:
1a) Charles IX, King of France (b.1543: d.1582) m. Mary I, Queen of Scotland (b.1542: d.1596) (a)1a) Francis III, King of France (b.1563)2a) Isabella, Princess of France and Scotland (b.1566)3a) Stillborn Son (c.1567)4a) James, Prince of France and Scotland (b.1570: d.1571)5a) Charles I, King of Scotland (b.1573)6a) Stillborn Son (c.1573)7a) Marie, Princess of Scotland (b.1575: d.1583)8a) Robert, Duke of Anjou and Ross (b.1578)

I don’t think Francis III would give up his right as Mary’s heir to his brother. Charles could potential be regent on his brothers behalf.

Kynan · Apr 1, 2021

Scenario: Surviving Elizabeth Tudor the Elder.

Henry VII, King of England (b.1457: d.1509) m. Elizabeth of York (b.1466: d.1503) (a)

1a) Arthur Tudor, Prince of Wales (b.1486: d.1502) m. Catherine, Infanta of Aragon and Castile (b.1486: d.1536) (a)

- had no issue

2a) Margaret Tudor, Princess of England (b.1489: d.1542) m. James IV, King of Scotland (b.1473: d.1513) (a), Archibald Douglas, Earl of Angus (b.1489: d.1557) (b), Henry Stewart, Lord of Methven (b.1495: d.1552) (c)

1a) James Stewart, Duke of Rothesay (b.1507: d.1508)

2a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1508)

3a) Arthur Stewart, Duke of Rothesay (b.1509: d.1510)

4a) James V, King of Scotland (b.1512: d.1542) m. Marguerite d'Angouleme (b.1523: d.1572) (a)

1a) James Stewart, Duke of Rothesay (b.1540: d.1541)

2a) Francis I, King of Scotland (b.1541)

3a) James Stewart, Duke of Albany (b.1542: d.1558)

5a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1512)

6a) Alexander, Duke of Ross (b.1514: d.1515)

7b) Margaret Douglas (b.1515) m. Henry Grey, Marquess of Dorset (b.1517: d.1562) (a)

1a) Henry Grey, Marquess of Dorset (b.1538)

2a) Stillborn Son (c.1540)

3a) Thomas Grey (b.1543: d.1545)

4a) Anne Grey (b.1545: d.1587) m. Thomas Tudor, Duke of York (b.1539: d.1575)

- had issue

5a) Stillborn Son (c.1546)

6a) Miscarriage (c.1547)

7a) Elizabeth Grey (b.1548: d.1549)

8a) Charles Grey (b.1551)

9a) Stillborn Son (c.1553)

10a) Mary Grey (b.1555: d.1555)

11a) John Grey (b.1557)

12a) Miscarriage (c.1559)

8c) Dorothea Stewart (c.1528)

3a) Henry VIII, King of England and Ireland (b.1491: d.1547) m. Catherine, Infanta of Aragon and Castile (b.1486: d.1536) (a) -annulled 1528-, Anne Boleyn (b.1501/1507: d.1555) (b)

1a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1510)

2a) Henry Tudor, Prince of Wales (b.1511: d.1511)

3a) Henry Tudor, Prince of Wales (b.1513 d.1513)

4a) Henry Tudor, Prince of Wales (b.1515: d.1515)

5a) Mary Tudor (b.1516: d.1558)

- never married, had no issue

6a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1518)

7b) Elizabeth Tudor, Princess of England and Ireland (b.1529: d.1557) m. Jean IV, King of Navarre (b.1529: d.1577) (a)

- had issue

8b) Stillborn Son (c.1530)

9b) Miscarriage (c.1531)

10b) Edward VI, King of England and Ireland (b.1533: d.1587) m. Dorothea, Princess of Denmark (b.1528: d.1575) (a)

1a) Henry Tudor, Prince of Wales (b.1551: d.1566)

2a) Arthur Tudor, Duke of Somerset (b.1554: d.1560)

3a) Frederick I, King of England and Ireland (b.1527)

4a) Stillborn Son (c.1530)

11b) Stillborn Son (c.1534)

12b) Miscarriage (c.1535)

13b) Margaret Tudor, Princess of England and Ireland (b.1537: d.1544)

14b) Stillborn Daughter (c.1537)

15b) Thomas Tudor, Duke of York (b.1539: d.1575) m. Anne Grey (b.1545: d.1587) (a)

1a) Anne Tudor of York (b.1568)

2a) Margaret Tudor of York (b.1570)

3a) Edmund Tudor, Duke of York (b.1572)

4a) Thomas Tudor, Earl of Lincoln (b.1574)

16b) Miscarriage (c.1541)

4a) Elizabeth Tudor, Princess of England (b.1492: d.1557) m. Louis XII, King of France (b.1492: d.1516) (a), Henri II, King of Navarre (b.1502: d.1555) (b)

1a) Louis XIII, King of France (b.1515: d.1568) m. Maria, Infanta of Portugal (b.1521: d.1577) (a)

1a) Marguerite, Princess of France (b.1538)

2a) Henri, Dauphin of France (b.1540: d.1544)

3a) Francois, Dauphin of France (b.1541: d.1550)

4a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1543)

5a) Anne, Princess of France (b.1546)

6a) Charles IX, King of France (b.1549)

7a) Stillborn Son (c.1550)

8a) Helene, Princess of France (b.1553)

9a) Louis, Duke of Anjou (b.1554)

2a) Henri, Duke of Orleans (b.1516: d.1552) m. Madeleine d'Angouleme (b.1520: d.1539) (a), Marie de Guise (b.1515: d.1560) (b)

1a) Isabelle d'Orleans (b.1538)

2b) Charles, Duke of Orleans (b.1541)

3b) Stillborn Son (c.1542)

4b) Antoinette d'Orleans (b.1544: d.1546)

5b) Marguerite d'Orleans (b.1545: d.1545)

6b) Jean d'Orleans (b.1547: d.1550)

3b) Elisabeth, Princess of Navarre (b.1523: d.1590) m. Francois III, Duke of Brittany (b.1519: d.1542) (a)

1a) Francois IV, Duke of Brittany (b.1543)

4b) Stillborn Son (c.1525)

5b) Miscarriage (c.1526)

6b) Jean IV, King of Navarre (b.1529: d.1577) m. Elizabeth Tudor, Princess of England and Ireland (b.1529: d.1557) (a), Eleonora d'Este (b.1537: d.1581) (b)

1a) Marie, Princess of Navarre (b.1550)

2a) Stillborn Son (c.1553)

3a) Elisabeth, Princess of Navarre (b.1554)

4a) Jean, Prince of Navarre (b.1557: d.1572)

5b) Henri, Prince of Navarre (b.1559: d.1562)

6b) Madeleine, Princess of Navarre (b.1561)

7b) Stillborn Son (c.1562)

8b) Francis II, King of Navarre (b.1566)

5a) Mary Tudor, Princess of England (b.1496: d.1532) m. Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1500: d.1558) (a)

1a) Isabella, Archduchess of Austria (b.1518: d.1523)

2a) Philip II, King of Spain (b.1520: d.1587) m. Maria Manuela, Infanta of Portugal (b.1527: d.1544) (a), Anna, Princess of Hungary and Bohemia (b.1528: d.1590)

1a) Stillborn Son (c.1544)

2b) Anne, Infanta of Spain (b.1547)

3b) Stillborn Daughter (c.1548)

4b) Philip III, King of Spain (b.1550)

5b) Eleanor, Infanta of Spain (b.1553)

6b) Ferdinand, Infante of Spain (b.1554: d.1555)

7b) Stillborn Son (c.1555)

8b) Charles, Infante of Spain (b.1557)

9b) Juana, Infanta of Spain (b.1559)

3a) Stillborn Son (c.1521)

4a) Juana, Archduchess of Austria (b.1522: d.1597) m. Francis I, Duke of Lorraine (b.1517: d.1545) (a)

- had no issue

5a) Eleanor, Archduchess of Austria (b.1524: d.1561) m. Maximilian I, King of Hungary and Bohemia (b.1527: d.1576) (a)

1a) Ferdinand, Prince of Hungary and Bohemia (b.1547: d.1558)

2a) Isabella, Princess of Hungary and Bohemia (b.1550)

3a) Louis III, King of Hungary and Bohemia (b.1554)

4a) Stillborn Son (c.1555)

6a) Stillborn Son (c.1525)

7a) Ferdinand, Archduke of Austria (b.1528: d.1531)

6a) Edward Tudor, Prince of England (b.1498: d.1499)

7a) Edmund Tudor, Duke of Somerset (b.1499: d.1500)

8a) Katherine Tudor, Princess of England (b.1503: d.1503)

List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage

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