List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage

Something I've been pondering
Why is Anne called of Holyrood?

Charles III of England, Scotland and Ireland (b.1666: d.1723) m Maria Anna of Neuburg (b.1667: d.1740)
1) Catherine, Princess Royal, Queen of Spain (b.1684) m. Philip V of Spain (19/12/1683–9/7/1746) [1]​
2) Charles, Prince of Wales (b.1685: d.1692)​
3) Robert I of England and IV of Scotland (b.1687) m. Sophia Dorothea of Hanover (26/3/1687–28/6/1757) [2]​
4) Mary of England (b.1689) m. John V of Portugal (22 October 1689 – 31 July 1750) [3]​
5) stillborn son (b.1691: d.1691)​
6) Anne of Holyrood (b.1694) m. James, Duke of York (10/6/1688-1/1/1766) [4]​
7) James, Duke of Gloucester and Kintyre (b.1696)​
8) Stillborn daughter (b.1699: d.1699)​
9) Henry, Duke of Clarence and Ross (b.1702)​

[1] In 1670, England agreed to support the rights of Louis XIV to the Spanish throne in the Treaty of Dover, this would result in England joing France in the War of the Spanish Succession.
[2] A Protestant cousin was suggested as a match from Parliament.
[3] Mary was related to John via her mother (sister of John's mother, Maria Sophia, Queen of Portugal) and her paternal grandmother, Catherine of Braganza (sister of John's father, Peter II, King of Portugal)
[4] The marriage was arranged by Charles III and his uncle James, Duke of York, before he died.

Haven't decided on the younger brothers.
 
Sneak peak of something I'm doing for my TL about the Catholic Monarchs...


János I Corvinus, King of Hungary and Croatia (b. 1473, d. 1504) m. Isabella of Naples (b. 1473, d. ?) in 1491, had issue

1) Beatrix Corvinus, Holy Roman Empress (b. 1492, d. ?) m. Ernst I, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1486, d. ?)​
2) Elisabeth Corvinus, Queen of Naples (b. 1494, d. ?) m. Ferdinand III, King of Naples (b. 1479, d. 1513)​
3) Matthias II Corvinus, King of Hungary and Croatia (b. 1497, d. 1523) m. Margaret of Burgundy (b. 1499, d. ?)​
4) Alfonz Corvinus (b. 1499, d. 1500)​
5) Johanna Corvinus, Queen of Bohemia (b. 1504, d. ?) m. Wenceslaus V Jagiellon, King of Bohemia (b. 1503, d. ?)​
 
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Why is Anne called of Holyrood?
Born at Holyroodhouse Palace?

3) Robert I of England and IV of Scotland (b.1687) m. Sophia Dorothea of Hanover (26/3/1687–28/6/1757) [2]
Only way for this match to go through would be for Friedrich Wilhelm not to fall for her (or his mother to not want a match with her niece), since he bribed the ambassador sent abroad to scout potential brides to tell his father bad things about the other three candidates (Ulrika Eleonora and ICR the other two) in order to make Sophia Dorothea (who he really wanted to marry) seem like the only "suitable" candidate.

1) Catherine, Princess Royal, Queen of Spain (b.1684) m. Philip V of Spain (19/12/1683–9/7/1746) [1]
I could see Catherine being considered as a match for either Emperor Joseph I (whose wife was a great-granddaughter of Elizabeth Stuart) or Karl VI instead. And was the Spanish succession already an issue at the time of OTL Dover?
 

VVD0D95

Banned
Why is Anne called of Holyrood?

Charles III of England, Scotland and Ireland (b.1666: d.1723) m Maria Anna of Neuburg (b.1667: d.1740)
1) Catherine, Princess Royal, Queen of Spain (b.1684) m. Philip V of Spain (19/12/1683–9/7/1746) [1]​
2) Charles, Prince of Wales (b.1685: d.1692)​
3) Robert I of England and IV of Scotland (b.1687) m. Sophia Dorothea of Hanover (26/3/1687–28/6/1757) [2]​
4) Mary of England (b.1689) m. John V of Portugal (22 October 1689 – 31 July 1750) [3]​
5) stillborn son (b.1691: d.1691)​
6) Anne of Holyrood (b.1694) m. James, Duke of York (10/6/1688-1/1/1766) [4]​
7) James, Duke of Gloucester and Kintyre (b.1696)​
8) Stillborn daughter (b.1699: d.1699)​
9) Henry, Duke of Clarence and Ross (b.1702)​

[1] In 1670, England agreed to support the rights of Louis XIV to the Spanish throne in the Treaty of Dover, this would result in England joing France in the War of the Spanish Succession.
[2] A Protestant cousin was suggested as a match from Parliament.
[3] Mary was related to John via her mother (sister of John's mother, Maria Sophia, Queen of Portugal) and her paternal grandmother, Catherine of Braganza (sister of John's father, Peter II, King of Portugal)
[4] The marriage was arranged by Charles III and his uncle James, Duke of York, before he died.

Haven't decided on the younger brothers.

Where she was born, was thinking that Mary is Mary of England largely becsuse her birth place may be a bit scandalous.

And oh interesting, would this duke of York srill come into being with Charles having two heirs?
 
Born at Holyroodhouse Palace?
Ah thats fair enough, I was only asking as Mary was know as of England. Just making sure she wasn't an illegitimate.

Only way for this match to go through would be for Friedrich Wilhelm not to fall for her (or his mother to not want a match with her niece), since he bribed the ambassador sent abroad to scout potential brides to tell his father bad things about the other three candidates (Ulrika Eleonora and ICR the other two) in order to make Sophia Dorothea (who he really wanted to marry) seem like the only "suitable" candidate.
Would George I or George II not try and push her to be in England rather than Prussia? Being a year older, England could arrange the marriage quicker.
I could see Catherine being considered as a match for either Emperor Joseph I (whose wife was a great-granddaughter of Elizabeth Stuart) or Karl VI instead. And was the Spanish succession already an issue at the time of OTL Dover?
In this article, it says that Charles II sought to support Louis XIV in a war with Dutch Republic, but was also supportive of Louis XIV's claim to the Spanish Throne. Charles II wasn't close with the HRE

Where she was born, was thinking that Mary is Mary of England largely becsuse her birth place may be a bit scandalous.
Fair enough

And oh interesting, would this duke of York srill come into being with Charles having two heirs?
James, would still want a wife and children to take his dukedom.
 

VVD0D95

Banned
Ah thats fair enough, I was only asking as Mary was know as of England. Just making sure she wasn't an illegitimate.


Would George I or George II not try and push her to be in England rather than Prussia? Being a year older, England could arrange the marriage quicker.

In this article, it says that Charles II sought to support Louis XIV in a war with Dutch Republic, but was also supportive of Louis XIV's claim to the Spanish Throne. Charles II wasn't close with the HRE


Fair enough


James, would still want a wife and children to take his dukedom.

True though, Mary of Modena only married him on the view that she’d bring about a catholic dynasty in England, with thay hope gone, it is possible james marries klaudoa feliticas
 
Would George I or George II not try and push her to be in England rather than Prussia?
Why? What can England that's a sea away do for them that Prussia (that's essentially right next door) can't?

Charles II wasn't close with the HRE
Yes, but Charles II isn't the one who'd be arranging his granddaughter's marriage.
And as to Charles II's closeness with the Habsburgs, I wouldn't say that. He considered two Habsburg candidates (Eleonore Magdalene of Neuburg and Klaudia Felizitas of Austria) as second wives for James II just three years after Dover, and the only reason he went with Mary of Modena was because Klaudia was unavailable and Eleonore didn't want to (IIRC).
Mary II was considered as a third wife for Leopold I, and Anne was considered (at the same time) for Carlos II of Spain. So I don't think the whole "not close with the HRE" reasoning holds water even regardless of the fact that Catherine would only be two when Charlie dies.

Mary of England largely becsuse her birth place may be a bit scandalous.
She born at Piddleditch or something? :p
 

VVD0D95

Banned
Why? What can England that's a sea away do for them that Prussia (that's essentially right next door) can't?


Yes, but Charles II isn't the one who'd be arranging his granddaughter's marriage.
And as to Charles II's closeness with the Habsburgs, I wouldn't say that. He considered two Habsburg candidates (Eleonore Magdalene of Neuburg and Klaudia Felizitas of Austria) as second wives for James II just three years after Dover, and the only reason he went with Mary of Modena was because Klaudia was unavailable and Eleonore didn't want to (IIRC).
Mary II was considered as a third wife for Leopold I, and Anne was considered (at the same time) for Carlos II of Spain. So I don't think the whole "not close with the HRE" reasoning holds water even regardless of the fact that Catherine would only be two when Charlie dies.


She born at Piddleditch or something? :p

Let’s just say she and Charles were getting busy and then Maria Anna’s water broke.... and they weren’t in a palace 😂
 
Let’s just say she and Charles were getting busy and then Maria Anna’s water broke.... and they weren’t in a palace 😂
So an "Italian induction" [1] then?

[1] don't know what the actual term is, heard it called that on a medical show once

PS: didn't queens still go into confinement or was that a thing of the past by this point
 

VVD0D95

Banned
So an "Italian induction" [1] then?

[1] don't know what the actual term is, heard it called that on a medical show once

PS: didn't queens still go into confinement or was that a thing of the past by this point
Actuallt bot sure, Mary of Modena was playing cards when her water broke with James.

Not sure she’d be allowed to play cards if in confinement
 
PODs: Edward IV and Mary of Burgundy both lives until 1484, meanwhile in Spain Isabella of Castile miscarries in 1479 and could not have more children (WIP)

Edward IV (1442-1484) King of England, m. Elizabeth Woodville (1437-1492)

1) Elizabeth (b. 1466) m. Charles VIII (b. 1470) King of France

2) Mary (1467-1482)

3) Cecily (1469-1507) m. James IV (b. 1473) King of Scotland

4) Edward V (1470-1489) King of England 1483

5) Margaret (1472)

6) Richard (1473-1486) m. Anne Mowbray

7) Anne (1475-1511) m. Philip IV (b. 1478) Duke of Burgundy

8) George I (b. 1477) King of England, m. Margaret of Austria (b. 1480)

9) Catherine (1479-1527) m. a) John (1478-1497) Prince of Asturias b) Manuel I (1469-1521) King of Portugal

10) Bridget (1480-1517) nun
 
Here’s one where Richard III wins Bosworth and Edward of Middleham survives:

King Richard III (1452-1507), reigned from 1483, M. Anne Neville (1456-1485) and in 1487 Princess Joanna of Portugal (1452-1506), had issue:

With Anne Neville:

1. Edward Middleham, later King Edward V (1473-1529) reigned from 1507 M. Elizabeth of York (1466-1521), had issue:

1 (A). Prince Richard, later King Richard IV (1489-1551), reigned from 1529 M. Catherine of Aragon (1485-1555).
1 (B). Princess Anne (1492-1543) M. King Orland I of France (1492-1539)
1 (C). Prince Edward, Duke Of Gloucester (1494-1525) M. Antoinette de Bourbon

With Princess Joanna

2. Princess Cecily (1488-1536) M. King James IV of Scotland (1473-1423) reigned from 1488, had issue:

2 (A). Prince James, Duke of Rothesay (1508-1556) reigned from 1523.
2 (B). Princes Cecily of Scotland (1509)

3. Prince Richard, Duke of York (1491-1559) M. Marguerite de Angouleme (1492-1550) had issue:

3 (A). Sir Edward of York (1507)
3 (B). Lady Margaret (1509)
3 (C). Lady Joanna (1511)
3 (D). Sir Richard (1513)

4. Princess Joanna (1494-1519) M. King Christian II of Denmark, had issue:

4 (A). Prince John of Denmark (1510-1543)
4 (B). Prince Christian (1512-1550)
4 (C). Princess Christina (1515-1556)

.....

So a few notes, the daughters of Edward IV are either married of to loyalist of Richard or sent to the convent.
 
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VVD0D95

Banned
Here’s one where Richard III wins Bosworth and Edward of Middleham survives:

King Richard III (1452-1507), reigned from 1483, M. Anne Neville (1456-1485) and in 1487 Princess Joanna of Portugal (1452-1506), had issue:

With Anne Neville:

1. Edward Middleham, later King Edward V (1473-1529) reigned from 1507 M. Elizabeth of York (1466-1521), had issue:

1 (A). Prince Richard, later King Richard IV (1489-1551), reigned from 1529 M. Catherine of Aragon (1485-1555).
1 (B). Princess Anne (1492-1543) M. King Orland I of France (1492-1539)
1 (C). Prince Edward, Duke Of Gloucester (1494-1525) M. Antoinette de Bourbon

With Princess Joanna

2. Princess Cecily (1488-1536) M. King James IV of Scotland (1473-1423) reigned from 1488, had issue:

2 (A). Prince James, Duke of Rothesay (1508-1556) reigned from 1523.
2 (B). Princes Cecily of Scotland (1509)

3. Prince Edward, Duke of York (1491-1559) M. Marguerite de Angouleme (1492-1550) had issue:

3 (A). Sir Edward of York (1507)
3 (B). Lady Margaret (1509)
3 (C). Lady Joanna (1511)
3 (D). Sir Richard (1513)

4. Princess Joanna (1494-1519) M. King Christian II of Denmark, had issue:

4 (A). Prince John of Denmark (1510-1543)
4 (B). Prince Christian (1512-1550)
4 (C). Princess Christina (1515-1556)

.....

So a few notes, the daughters of Edward IV are either married of to loyalist of Richard or sent to the convent.

Not sure Edward of Middleham would marry Liz of YOrk as that would undermine Richard's whole basis for claiming the throne.
 
Not sure Edward of Middleham would marry Liz of YOrk as that would undermine Richard's whole basis for claiming the throne.
Oh, my thought was that it would stop anyone from trying to rally around them. I’ll go and change that, any suggestion for a bride for Edward of Middleham?
 
M. Elizabeth of York
As long as Richard is alive, not happening. A better bride would be Anne of Brittany.
Prince Edward, Duke Of Gloucester (1494-1525) M. Antoinette de Bourbon
Why is she an attractive bride?
Prince Edward, Duke of York (1491-1559) M. Marguerite de Angouleme (1492-1550) had issue:
Richard names two of his kids Edward? And does Afonso Prince of Portugal live?
 
As long as Richard is alive, not happening. A better bride would be Anne of Brittany.
Why is she an attractive bride?
Richard names two of his kids Edward? And does Afonso Prince of Portugal live?
1. I did that with the idea that Richard thinks it will stop anyone from gathering around them to try and overthrow him.
2. She is a good fit for a Duke of Gloucester and the second son and could offer an appropriate dowry.
3. That was a mistake thanks for catching that! Also what does Afonso of Portugal living have to do with anything?
 
More complete version:

Edward IV (1442-1484) King of England, m. Elizabeth Woodville (1437-1492)

1) Elizabeth (1466-1518) m. Charles VIII (1470-1502) King of France

1) Charles IX (1487-1511) King of France 1502, m. Anne of Lorraine (1490-1520)​
2) Elizabeth (1488-1540) m. Ferdinand II/V (1452-1516) King of Aragon and Castile​
3) Louis XII (1490-) King of France 1511, m. Francoise of Alençon (1490-1550)​
1) Elizabeth (1510-​
2) Louise (1511-​
3) Charlotte (1494)​
4) Philip (1495-1499)​
5) Anne (1498-1501)​

2) Mary (1467-1482)

3) Cecily (1469-1507) m. James IV (b. 1473) King of Scotland

4) Edward V (1470-1489) King of England 1483

5) Margaret (1472)

6) Richard (1473-1486) m. Anne Mowbray

7) Anne (1475-1511) m. Philip IV (1478-1508) Duke of Burgundy

1) Eleanor (1495-1516) m. Antoine (1489-) Duke of Lorraine​
2) Charles V (1498-1525) Duke of Burgundy 1508, Holy Roman Emperor 1519 m. Elizabeth of Bohemia and Hungary (1503-1553)​
3) Maximilian II (1500-1551) Holy Roman Emperor 1525, m. Catherine of Lorraine (1503-1546)​
4) Elizabeth (1504-1517)​

8) George I (1477-1522) King of England, m. Margaret of Austria (1480-1530)

1) Edward (1498-1504)​
2) Elizabeth (1500-1501)​
3) George II (1501-) King of England 1522, m​
4) Richard (1503)​
5) Edward (1506-​
6) Margaret (1509)​

9) Catherine (1479-1527) m. a) John (1478-1497) Prince of Asturias b) Manuel I (1469-1521) King of Portugal

1b) John (1500)​
2b) Edward II (1502-) King of Portugal 1521​
3b) Isabella (1503-)​
4b) Beatrice (1505)​
5b) Afonso (1506-) Duke of Beja​
7b) Catherine (1508-1561) m. John III (1508-1564) King of Spain​
8b) Ferdinand (1511-1515)​
9b) George (1513-1548) Duke of Guarda​
10b) Henry (1515-1567) cardinal​

10) Bridget (1480-1517) nun
 
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