List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage

A different Yorkist TL, inspired by my one on the children of the Catholic Monarchs...Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville's children swap genders. Still looking for brides for the Prince of Wales :)coldsweat:) and the earl of March...


Edward IV, King of England (b. 1442, d. 1483) m. Elizabeth Woodville (b. 1437*, d. 1492) in 1464, had issue

1) Edward, Prince of Wales (b. 1466) m. ???​
2) Richard, Duke of York and Norfolk (b. 1467, d. 1482) m. Anne de Mowbry, 8th countess of Norfolk (b. 1472)​
3) George, Duke of Bedford (b. 1469) m. Maddalena de’Medici (b. 1473)​
4) Elizabeth (b. 1470) m. Charles VIII, King of France (b. 1470)​
5) Edmund, earl of Cambridge (b. and d. 1472)​
6) Cecily (b. 1473) m. James IV Stewart, King of Scots (b. 1473)​
7) Thomas, Duke of Cambridge (b. 1475) m. Elizabeth Herbert, 3rd Baroness Herbert (b. 1476)​
8) Jacquetta (b. 1477, d. 1479)​
9) William, Duke of Gloucester (b. 1478) m. Alice of Middleham, 1st countess of Salisbury (b. 1473*)​
10) Lionel, Bishop of Ely, later Bishop of Winchester (b. 1480)​
 
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A different Yorkist TL, inspired by my one on the children of the Catholic Monarchs...Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville's children swap genders. Still looking for brides for the Prince of Wales :)coldsweat:) and the earl of March...


Edward IV, King of England (b. 1542, d. 1483) m. Elizabeth Woodville (b. 1437*, d. 1492) in 1464, had issue

1) Edward, Prince of Wales (b. 1466) m. ???​
2) Richard, Duke of York and Norfolk (b. 1467, d. 1482) m. Anne de Mowbry, 8th countess of Norfolk (b. 1472)​
3) George, Duke of Bedford (b. 1469) m. Maddalena de’Medici (b. 1473)been​
4) Elizabeth (b. 1470) m. Charles VIII, King of France (b. 1470)​
5) Edmund, earl of Cambridge (b. and d. 1472)​
6) Cecily (b. 1473) m. James IV Stewart, King of Scots (b. 1473)​
7) Thomas, earl of Rutland (b. 1475) m. Elizabeth Herbert, 3rd Baroness Herbert (b. 1476)​
8) Jacquetta (b. 1477, d. 1479)​
9) William, earl of March (b. 1478) m. ???​
10) Lionel, Bishop of Ely, later Bishop of Winchester (b. 1480)​
Er.. You've got Edward IV being born seventy years after he dies ;)

In terms of a bride for the Prince of Wales - the closest girl I can find in age on a quick google would be Isabella of Viseu, niece and then sister of the King of Portugal (b. 1459). He's precisely between generations of Princesses in age...
 
Er.. You've got Edward IV being born seventy years after he dies ;)
Oof, didn’t see that. Fixed.
In terms of a bride for the Prince of Wales - the closest girl I can find in age on a quick google would be Isabella of Viseu, niece and then sister of the King of Portugal (b. 1459). He's precisely between generations of Princesses in age...
Yeah, he’s a problem...not many eligible girls born in the 1460s. Kunigunde of Austria or Bianca Maria Sforza could be options...I think Isabel of Viseu might not be grand enough to warrant the age difference between her and Edward. Or what about a French proxy? POD is such that Louis XI could have a Savoyard niece of the right age.
You could have him follow in his father's footsteps and elope
Now that too is an option...
 
A different Yorkist TL, inspired by my one on the children of the Catholic Monarchs...Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville's children swap genders. Still looking for brides for the Prince of Wales :)coldsweat:) and the earl of March...


Edward IV, King of England (b. 1442, d. 1483) m. Elizabeth Woodville (b. 1437*, d. 1492) in 1464, had issue

1) Edward, Prince of Wales (b. 1466) m. ???​
2) Richard, Duke of York and Norfolk (b. 1467, d. 1482) m. Anne de Mowbry, 8th countess of Norfolk (b. 1472)​
3) George, Duke of Bedford (b. 1469) m. Maddalena de’Medici (b. 1473)​
4) Elizabeth (b. 1470) m. Charles VIII, King of France (b. 1470)​
5) Edmund, earl of Cambridge (b. and d. 1472)​
6) Cecily (b. 1473) m. James IV Stewart, King of Scots (b. 1473)​
7) Thomas, earl of Rutland (b. 1475) m. Elizabeth Herbert, 3rd Baroness Herbert (b. 1476)​
8) Jacquetta (b. 1477, d. 1479)​
9) William, earl of March (b. 1478) m. ???​
10) Lionel, Bishop of Ely, later Bishop of Winchester (b. 1480)​
For the PoW, either give Louis XI an extra daughter or keep Francis Phoebus alive longer and marry him to Catherine of Navarre.

Rutland and March need Dukedoms and who's married Anne of Brittany ITTL? Also for March's bride you could go for Middleham born female.
 
For the PoW, either give Louis XI an extra daughter or keep Francis Phoebus alive longer and marry him to Catherine of Navarre.
Are you sure re: Catherine of Navarre? Louis XI probably would rather her marry the Dauphin, unless he is super committed to an English match for little Charles (which he definitely doesn't seem to have been IOTL). Anyways, I also think that Francis Phoebus is likely still a goner, between Louis XI and Fernando of Aragon.
Rutland and March need Dukedoms and who's married Anne of Brittany ITTL? Also for March's bride you could go for Middleham born female.
Right, so, Duke of Cambridge and Duke of...Clarence? IDK do you think Edward would use the title of his attainted brother for one of his sons? I feel like probably not. Gloucester could work if Middleham is born female and married to William of York.
 
A different Yorkist TL, inspired by my one on the children of the Catholic Monarchs...Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville's children swap genders. Still looking for brides for the Prince of Wales :)coldsweat:) and the earl of March...


Edward IV, King of England (b. 1442, d. 1483) m. Elizabeth Woodville (b. 1437*, d. 1492) in 1464, had issue

1) Edward, Prince of Wales (b. 1466) m. ???​
2) Richard, Duke of York and Norfolk (b. 1467, d. 1482) m. Anne de Mowbry, 8th countess of Norfolk (b. 1472)​
3) George, Duke of Bedford (b. 1469) m. Maddalena de’Medici (b. 1473)​
4) Elizabeth (b. 1470) m. Charles VIII, King of France (b. 1470)​
5) Edmund, earl of Cambridge (b. and d. 1472)​
6) Cecily (b. 1473) m. James IV Stewart, King of Scots (b. 1473)​
7) Thomas, earl of Rutland (b. 1475) m. Elizabeth Herbert, 3rd Baroness Herbert (b. 1476)​
8) Jacquetta (b. 1477, d. 1479)​
9) William, earl of March (b. 1478) m. ???​
10) Lionel, Bishop of Ely, later Bishop of Winchester (b. 1480)​
As princess of Wales: Louise of Savoy (or one of her brothers born as girl) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yolande_of_Valois#Issue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippa_of_Guelders or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_of_Lorraine
Also either Isabella of Aragon (the Duchess of Milan and the Princess of Portugal are both born in 1470 and if Edward start to search a bride soon he can get either ashey were engaged around 8/9 years old).
Maddalena de’ Medici is way too low born for being married to a royal prince (her family is only de facto ruler of Florence, so she is only a rich merchantess). With so many sons one of them will be surely married to Anne of Brittany
 
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Are you sure re: Catherine of Navarre? Louis XI probably would rather her marry the Dauphin, unless he is super committed to an English match for little Charles (which he definitely doesn't seem to have been IOTL). Anyways, I also think that Francis Phoebus is likely still a goner, between Louis XI and Fernando of Aragon.

Right, so, Duke of Cambridge and Duke of...Clarence? IDK do you think Edward would use the title of his attainted brother for one of his sons? I feel like probably not. Gloucester could work if Middleham is born female and married to William of York.
Louis XI sure, but he can't do much to marry her to the Dauphin if she's already married to the PoW.

And the English match could happen because of a war over Navarre and possibly Brittany.

Not sure, but with three sons in the cradle and one on the way are we quite sure Warwick's rebellion and George being George will happen in the first place? And Rutland would be Cambridge and March can be Hereford. Gloucester works too but after Richard I think it'd be somewhat associated with the north, while March is.....not in the north.
Maddalena de’ Medici is way too low born for being married to a royal prince (her family is only de facto ruler of Florence, so she is only a rich merchantess).
She can be a hot rich merchantess.
 
Louis XI sure, but he can't do much to marry her to the Dauphin if she's already married to the PoW.

And the English match could happen because of a war over Navarre and possibly Brittany.

Not sure, but with three sons in the cradle and one on the way are we quite sure Warwick's rebellion and George being George will happen in the first place? And Rutland would be Cambridge and March can be Hereford. Gloucester works too but after Richard I think it'd be somewhat associated with the north, while March is.....not in the north.

She can be a hot rich merchantess.
Not good enough. And she would still married off in Rome, in exchange of her brother’s ecclesiastical career.
 
Tudor Spain under construction:​
PODs:​
-Elizabeth Tudor (b. 1492) lives.​
-Joanna the Mad dies in Castile in 1503, giving birth to Ferdinand (who also dies). Philip Habsburg remarries to Elizabeth Tudor​
-Henry VII lives longer, thus his son marries Eleanor of Austria instead of CoA. H7, who not only lives longer but also is not distracted by Joanna the Mad, remarries to Margaret of Austria or Joanna of Naples but has no issue.​
-Philip succeedes Maximilian as HRE while Charles rules Spain.​
-Charles dies earlier than IOTL and without surviving issue and is succeeded by Tudor nephew (likely older son of H8 and Eleanor gets Spain while younger one inherits England).​
 
Tudor Spain under construction:​
PODs:​
-Elizabeth Tudor (b. 1492) lives.​
-Joanna the Mad dies in Castile in 1503, giving birth to Ferdinand (who also dies). Philip Habsburg remarries to Elizabeth Tudor​
-Henry VII lives longer, thus his son marries Eleanor of Austria instead of CoA. H7, who not only lives longer but also is not distracted by Joanna the Mad, remarries to Margaret of Austria or Joanna of Naples but has no issue.​
-Philip succeedes Maximilian as HRE while Charles rules Spain.​
-Charles dies earlier than IOTL and without surviving issue and is succeeded by Tudor nephew (likely older son of H8 and Eleanor gets Spain while younger one inherits England).​
I'd swap out the order of the sons inheriting - England for the eldest, Spain for the younger. I can't see Henry VIII cottoning on to his eldest son not inheriting.
 
But wasn't Spanish throne at the time worth much more than English one?
Depends on your view, I think. To Henry "married six women to get a male heir for my beloved England", I think it the English throne might be worth more. During the similar marriage between Henry II and Eleanor of Aquitaine, their plan for their sons' inheritances were thus: "Henry II planned to divide his and Eleanor's territories among their three eldest surviving sons: Henry would become King of England and have control of Anjou, Maine, and Normandy; Richard would inherit Aquitaine and Poitiers from his mother; and Geoffrey would become Duke of Brittany through marriage with Constance, heir presumptive of Conan IV."

Aquitaine was not Spain, I acknowledge, but it was still a fairly big deal.
 
Philip II (1478-1529) Duke of Burgundy, Holy Roman Emperor 1519, m. a) Joanna of Castile (1479-1503) b) Elizabeth of England (1492-1545)

1a) Eleanor (1498-1558) m. Henry VIII (1491-1549) King of England

2a) Charles I (1500-1532) King of Spain, m. Isabella of Portugal (1503-1556)

3a) Isabella (1501-1526) m. Christian II (1481-1559) King of Denmark, Norway and Sweden

4a) Ferdinand (1503)

5b) Margaret (1508-1560) m. Louis II (1506-1526) King of Bohemia and Hungary

6b) Maximilian (1510-1513)

7b) Henry VIII (1513-1550) Holy Roman Emperor 1529, m. Hedwig of Poland (1513-1573)

8b) Mary (1516-1571) m. Frederick (1504-1549) Duke of Saxony

9b) Maximilian (1518-1523)

10b) Philip III (1520-1571) Holy Roman Emperor 1550, m. Mechthild of Bavaria (1532-1565)
 
Tudor Spain under construction:​
PODs:​
-Elizabeth Tudor (b. 1492) lives.​
-Joanna the Mad dies in Castile in 1503, giving birth to Ferdinand (who also dies). Philip Habsburg remarries to Elizabeth Tudor​
-Henry VII lives longer, thus his son marries Eleanor of Austria instead of CoA. H7, who not only lives longer but also is not distracted by Joanna the Mad, remarries to Margaret of Austria or Joanna of Naples but has no issue.​
-Philip succeedes Maximilian as HRE while Charles rules Spain.​
-Charles dies earlier than IOTL and without surviving issue and is succeeded by Tudor nephew (likely older son of H8 and Eleanor gets Spain while younger one inherits England)​
Philip II (1478-1529) Duke of Burgundy, Holy Roman Emperor 1519, m. a) Joanna of Castile (1479-1503) b) Elizabeth of England (1492-1545)

1a) Eleanor (1498-1558) m. Henry VIII (1491-1549) King of England

2a) Charles I (1500-1532) King of Spain, m. Isabella of Portugal (1503-1556)

3a) Isabella (1501-1526) m. Christian II (1481-1559) King of Denmark, Norway and Sweden

4a) Ferdinand (1503)

5b) Margaret (1508-1560) m. Louis II (1506-1526) King of Bohemia and Hungary

6b) Maximilian (1510-1513)

7b) Henry VIII (1513-1550) Holy Roman Emperor 1529, m. Hedwig of Poland (1513-1573)

8b) Mary (1516-1571) m. Frederick (1504-1549) Duke of Saxony

9b) Maximilian (1518-1523)

10b) Philip III (1520-1571) Holy Roman Emperor 1550, m. Mechthild of Bavaria (1532-1565)
I think who Isabella will go in Portugal NOT Denmark here.
 
Wonder What Is Going on Here?

Edward IV of England (1442-1483) m. Elizabeth Woodville (1437-1492), Had Issue:

1.Elizabeth Of York (1466) m. Charles VIII of France, Had Issue.
1a. Louis XII of France (1492-1547)
2. Mary Of York (1467-1492) no issue.
3. Cecily of York (1469-1507) m. Henry Tudor, Duke of Somerset and Richmond (1547-1507), had Issue:
3a. Henry, Duke of Somerset and Richmond (1492-1547)
4. King Edward V of England (1470-1483) no issue.
5. Margaret of York (1472) no issue.
6. Richard, Duke Of York (1473-1483) no issue.
7.Anne of York (1475-1511) m. John of The Kalmar Union. Had Issue.
7a. Christian II of Scandinavia (1495-1561)
8.King George I of England (1477-1531) m. Anne of Brittany (1477-1514) had Issue:
8a. King Edward VI of England (1499-1481) m. Mary, Queen of Scots (1501-1583)
9.Catherine of York, (1479-1527) nun.
10. Bridget of York (1480-1512) nun.
 
Wonder What Is Going on Here?

Edward IV of England (1442-1483) m. Elizabeth Woodville (1437-1492), Had Issue:

1.Elizabeth Of York (1466) m. Charles VIII of France, Had Issue.
1a. Louis XII of France (1492-1547)
2. Mary Of York (1467-1492) no issue.
3. Cecily of York (1469-1507) m. Henry Tudor, Duke of Somerset and Richmond (1547-1507), had Issue:
3a. Henry, Duke of Somerset and Richmond (1492-1547)
4. King Edward V of England (1470-1483) no issue.
5. Margaret of York (1472) no issue.
6. Richard, Duke Of York (1473-1483) no issue.
7.Anne of York (1475-1511) m. John of The Kalmar Union. Had Issue.
7a. Christian II of Scandinavia (1495-1561)
8.King George I of England (1477-1531) m. Anne of Brittany (1477-1514) had Issue:
8a. King Edward VI of England (1499-1481) m. Mary, Queen of Scots (1501-1583)
9.Catherine of York, (1479-1527) nun.
10. Bridget of York (1480-1512) nun.
Under no circumstances is Cecily marrying Tudor.
 
Wonder What Is Going on Here?

Edward IV of England (1442-1483) m. Elizabeth Woodville (1437-1492), Had Issue:

1.Elizabeth Of York (1466) m. Charles VIII of France, Had Issue.
1a. Louis XII of France (1492-1547)
2. Mary Of York (1467-1492) no issue.
3. Cecily of York (1469-1507) m. Henry Tudor, Duke of Somerset and Richmond (1547-1507), had Issue:
3a. Henry, Duke of Somerset and Richmond (1492-1547)
4. King Edward V of England (1470-1483) no issue.
5. Margaret of York (1472) no issue.
6. Richard, Duke Of York (1473-1483) no issue.
7.Anne of York (1475-1511) m. John of The Kalmar Union. Had Issue.
7a. Christian II of Scandinavia (1495-1561)
8.King George I of England (1477-1531) m. Anne of Brittany (1477-1514) had Issue:
8a. King Edward VI of England (1499-1481) m. Mary, Queen of Scots (1501-1583)
9.Catherine of York, (1479-1527) nun.
10. Bridget of York (1480-1512) nun.
Richmond was an Earldom and would stay as such and NO WAY who Henry Tudor is allowed to marry a royal princess.
Also if Elizabeth married Charles VIII as planned she and her sisters would remain legitimate princesses and that mean Scotland for Cecily and Burgundy for Anne, so John of Denmark would most likely marry as OTL, while Christian II would marry Catherine of York (if you want a match between England and Kalmar)
 
A different Yorkist TL, inspired by my one on the children of the Catholic Monarchs...Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville's children swap genders. Still looking for brides for the Prince of Wales :)coldsweat:) and the earl of March...


Edward IV, King of England (b. 1442, d. 1483) m. Elizabeth Woodville (b. 1437*, d. 1492) in 1464, had issue

1) Edward, Prince of Wales (b. 1466) m. ???​
2) Richard, Duke of York and Norfolk (b. 1467, d. 1482) m. Anne de Mowbry, 8th countess of Norfolk (b. 1472)​
3) George, Duke of Bedford (b. 1469) m. Maddalena de’Medici (b. 1473)​
4) Elizabeth (b. 1470) m. Charles VIII, King of France (b. 1470)​
5) Edmund, earl of Cambridge (b. and d. 1472)​
6) Cecily (b. 1473) m. James IV Stewart, King of Scots (b. 1473)​
7) Thomas, Duke of Cambridge (b. 1475) m. Elizabeth Herbert, 3rd Baroness Herbert (b. 1476)​
8) Jacquetta (b. 1477, d. 1479)​
9) William, Duke of Gloucester (b. 1478) m. Alice of Middleham, 1st countess of Salisbury (b. 1473*)​
10) Lionel, Bishop of Ely, later Bishop of Winchester (b. 1480)​
Revisions, based on suggestions here.


Edward IV, King of England (b. 1442, d. 1483) m. Elizabeth Woodville (b. 1437*, d. 1492) in 1464, had issue
1) Edward, Prince of Wales (b. 1466) m. Isabella of Naples (b. 1470)​
2) Richard, Duke of York and Norfolk (b. 1467, d. 1482) m. Anne de Mowbry, 8th countess of Norfolk (b. 1472)​
3) George, Duke of Bedford, iure uxoris Duke of Brittany (b. 1469) m. Isabeau, Duchess of Brittany (b. 1478)​
4) Elizabeth (b. 1470) m. Charles VIII, King of France (b. 1470)​
5) Edmund, earl of Cambridge (b. and d. 1472)​
6) Cecily (b. 1473) m. James IV Stewart, King of Scots (b. 1473)​
7) Thomas, Duke of Gloucester (b. 1475) m. Alice of Middleham, 1st countess of Salisbury (b. 1473*)​
8) Jacquetta (b. 1477, d. 1479)​
9) William, Duke of Hereford (b. 1478) m. Elizabeth Herbert, 3rd Baroness Herbert (b. 1476)​
10) Lionel, Bishop of Ely, later Bishop of Winchester (b. 1480)​
 
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