List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage
- Thread starter Jonathan
- Start date
Juan III of Castile, Chuan III of Aragon and Joan III of Navarre. Quite a grand title. Now all he needs are Portugal and he'll be Joao III there too.
Getting Naples for Joanna would be easier than taking Navarre for Germaine. Plus Germaine’s brother is still alive and their rights on Navarre belong to him (and in truth are not so good and almost laughable if transferred to Germaine).
The right thing to do about Navarre is marrying Ferdinand VI to Madeleine of Navarre (five years older than him but with good chances to inheriting Navarre) instead of Isabella of Portugal.
Ferdinand and Madeleine’s son then can marry a daughter of John III of Portugal and Isabella of Spain
Charles the Bold has more children with Isabella de Bourbon. That is raw idea, help, suggestions and criticism welcomed.
Isabella of Bourbon (1434-1465) m. Charles (1433-1477) Duke of Burgundy
1) Mary (1457-1509) m. Nicholas (1448-1) Duke of Lorraine
2) Philip IV (1459-) Duke of Burgundy 1477, m. a) Anne of France (1461-1480) b) Elizabeth of England (1466-)
3) Isabella (1460-) m. George (1449-) Duke of Clarence
4) John (1462-1482)
5) Agnes (1464-) m. Francis II (1433-1488) Duke of Brittany
Some predictions: George Plantagenet is not traitor, Edward IV's sons are not killed (as his oldest daughter is already married before his death) and Nicholas of Anjou is not poisoned
Isabella of Bourbon (1434-1465) m. Charles (1433-1477) Duke of Burgundy
1) Mary (1457-1509) m. Nicholas (1448-1) Duke of Lorraine
2) Philip IV (1459-) Duke of Burgundy 1477, m. a) Anne of France (1461-1480) b) Elizabeth of England (1466-)
3) Isabella (1460-) m. George (1449-) Duke of Clarence
4) John (1462-1482)
5) Agnes (1464-) m. Francis II (1433-1488) Duke of Brittany
Some predictions: George Plantagenet is not traitor, Edward IV's sons are not killed (as his oldest daughter is already married before his death) and Nicholas of Anjou is not poisoned
Pretty interesting but I think who Anne of France will not be married in Burgundy and also the Clarence match for Isabella is pretty much without sense. Plus I see Nicholas of Anjou and Maximilian of Austria as the most likely matches for Mary and Isabella here as once he had a surviving son Charles the Bold will try harder to get his royal crown and marrying one of his daughters to Frederick‘s son (with a very big dowry) is part of the pact.
So it would be Isabella who'll be married to Francis of Brittany and Elizabeth of York would be Philip's first wife, perhaps Agnes would marry Bourbon duke.
No. Agnes match is fine... Elizabeth will be Philip’s first wife (likely the ATL English-Burgundian will include both the Charles/Margaret match and Philip’s engagement to Elizabeth). Isabella will marry Maximilian here with a very big dowry (and her father will receive a royal title, likely a new one of Burgundy or Netherlands, but a revival of the old one of Lotharingia, who Charles wanted is not impossible)...
Philip of Rouvres does not die in 1361, and consummates his marriage to Margaret of Flanders.
Philip I, Duke and Count of Burgundy, Count of Auvergne, Artois and Boulogne (b.1346, d.1395) m. Margaret III, Countess of Flanders, Nevers and Rethel (b.1350, d.1402)
[1] He's got the same name, but he's a different guy from the OTL one
[2] ATL daughter of John I, Duke of Lorraine
[3] ATL son of John III, Duke of Armagnac
[4] ATL daughter of Louis I of Chalon, Count of Auxerre and Tonnerre (his elder brother - OTL John IV, Count of Auxerre - dies suddenly in 1369 before he can sell his county to the French king, thus Louis holds both counties instead of just Tonnerre)
[5] ATL grandson of Louis II, Duke of Bourbon
[6] ATL grandson of Gaston III, Duke of Foix
[7] ATL great-grandson of Peter II, Count of Alençon
[8] Granddaughter of aforementioned alt-Charles VI of France. Yes, that makes them second cousins.
[9] ATL grandson of Charles III of Navarre
[10] ATL great-grandson of Louis I of Hungary
[11] ATL granddaughter of Albert I, Duke of Bavaria-Straubing, Count of Holland and Hainaut
[12] ATL great-grandson of Charles IV, Holy Roman Emperor
[13] ATL great-granddaughter of Adolf III of the Marck
[14] ATL great-grandson of Edward, Duke of Guelders (who doesn't die in battle TTL)
[15] ATL great-grandson of William VII of Jülich, 1st Duke of Berg
[16]ATL grandson of Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor Oh shit, Sigismund was born after the POD, err, I meant ATL great-grandson of Charles IV, Holy Roman Emperor; second cousin to John III of Luxemburg
[17] ATL daughter of Waleran III, Count of Ligny and Saint-Pol
[18] ATL granddaughter of John IV the Conqueror, Duke of Brittany
[19] ATL great-grandson of Louis I, Count of Étampes
[20] ATL great-great-grandson of Louis II, Count of Blois
[21] ATL great-grandson of Louis I of Anjou
[22] ATL son of John I, Count of La Marche
[23] ATL son of Philip of Artois, Count of Eu
[24] ATL grandson of Rudolf VI, Margrave of Baden-Baden
[25] ATL son of John, Duke of Berry
[26] ATL son of Philip the Bold, who is Duke of Touraine TTL.
[27] ATL son of Gian Galeazzo Visconti
[28] Same name, different guy
Philip I, Duke and Count of Burgundy, Count of Auvergne, Artois and Boulogne (b.1346, d.1395) m. Margaret III, Countess of Flanders, Nevers and Rethel (b.1350, d.1402)
1) Joan of Burgundy (b.1367, d.1405) m. Charles VI, King of France (b.1366, d.1422) [1]
2) Philip II, Duke and Count of Burgundy, Duke of Brabant and Limburg, Count of Auvergne, Flanders, Artois, Boulogne, Nevers and Rethel (b.1369, d.1425) m. Isabelle of Lorraine (b.1370, d.1405) [2]
1) Philip (b.1388, d.1389)
2) Margaret of Burgundy (b.1389, d.1431) m. John IV, Duke of Armagnac (b.1390, d.1435) [3]
3) Odo V, Duke and Count of Burgundy, Count of Auvergne and Nevers (b.1390, d.1444) m. Margaret of Chalon-Auxerre (b.1385, d.1441) [4]
1) Joan of Burgundy (b.1406, d.1462) m. Louis III, Duke of Bourbon (b.1404, d.1441) [5]
2) Catherine of Burgundy (b.1408, d.1456) m. Gaston V, Duke of Foix (b.1411, d.1447) [6]
3) Philip (b.1410, d.1412)
4) Agnes of Burgundy (b.1412, d.1481) n. John II, Count of Alençon (b.1413, d.1444) [7]
5) Hugh VI, Duke and Count of Burgundy, Count of Auvergne, Nevers, Auxerre and Tonnerre (b.1414, d.1462) m. Bonne of France (b.1412, d.1461) [8]
6) Mary (b.1416, d.1416)
7) Louis (b.1417, d.1417)
8) John (b.1419, d.1420)
9) Isabelle of Burgundy (b.1420, d.1459) m. Charles V of Navarre (b.1422, d.1461) [9]
10) Charles (b.1421, d.1423)
11) Anthony (b.1423, d.1425)
12) Louise of Burgundy (b.1425, d.1472) m. Louis II, King of Hungary and Poland (b.1415, d.1461) [10]
13) miscarriage 1427
4) Louis III, Duke of Brabant and Limburg, Count of Flanders (b.1392, d.1432) m. Sophia of Holland (b.1390, d.1425) [11]
1) Mary (b.1408, d.1409)
2) Margaret (b.1409, d.1409)
3) Louis (b.1410, d.1410)
4) Charles (b.1411, d.1415)
5) Agatha of Brabant (b.1412, d.1451) m. John III, Duke of Luxemburg (b.1415, d.1477) [12]
6) William, Duke of Brabant and Limburg, Count of Flanders, Holland, Zeeland and Hainaut (b.1413, d.1471) m. Elisabeth of Cleves (b.1411, d.1452) [13]
7) Alix of Brabant (b.1415, d.1474) m. Reginald IV, Duke of Guelders (b.1413, d.1480) [14]
8) Joan (b.1417, d.1417)
9) Anne (b.1418, d.1419)
10) Mathilda of Brabant (b.1420, d.1474) m. William III, Duke of Jülich and Berg, Count of Ravensberg (b.1419, d.1458) [15]
11) Anthony (b.1422, d.1422)
12) Veronica of Brabant (b.1424, d.1482) m. Henry III, Elector of Brandenburg (b.1425, d.1501) [16]
13) stillborn daughter 1425
5) Hugh, Count of Artois, Boulogne and Rethel (b.1394, d.1440) m. Philippa, Countess of Saint-Pol and Ligny (b.1386, b.1436) [17]
1) Robert III, Count of Artois, Boulogne, Saint-Pol, Ligny and Rethel (b.1409, d.1456) m. Margaret of Brittany (b.1411, d.1459) [18]
2) Isabelle of Artois (b.1410, d.1452) m. John II, Count of Étampes (b.1407, d.1439) [19]
3) Louis (b.1411, d.1412)
4) Catherine of Artois (b.1413) m. Louis III, Count of Blois (b.1414, d.1469) [20]
5) Philippa of Artois (b.1414, d.1474) m. Louis III, Duke of Anjou (b.1416, d.1444) [21]
6) Joan of Artois (b.1416, d.1445)
7) Philip (b.1417, d.1429)
8) John (b.1420, d.1420)
9) stillborn son 1422
10) miscarriage 1424
6) Adelaide of Burgundy (b.1395, d.1462) m. John, Count of Vendôme (b.1387, d.1466) [22]
7) Beatrice of Burgundy (b.1397, d.1443) m. Philip II, Count of Eu (b.1395, d.1442) [23]
8) Isabelle (b.1398, d.1398)
9) Catherine of Burgundy (b.1400, d.1447) m. Bernard II, Margrave of Baden-Baden (b.1401, d.1452) [24]
10) Robert (b.1402, d.1404)
11) stillborn son 1405
3) Louis (b.1370, d.1372)
4) Catherine (b.1371, d.1373)
5) Anne of Burgundy (b.1374, d.1423) m. Charles, Duke of Berry (b.1370, d.1421) [25]
6) Anthony (b.1375, d.1380)
7) Mary of Burgundy (b.1377, d.1402) m. Louis, Duke of Touraine (b.1375, d.1434) [26]
8) John (b.1379, d.1379)
9) stillborn daughter 1380
10) Margaret of Burgundy (b.1382, d.1429) m. Gian Galeazzo II, Duke of Milan (b.1380, d.1433) [27]
11) Yolande (b.1384, d.1385)
12) Isabelle of Burgundy (b.1386, d.1438) m. Amadeus VIII, Duke of Savoy (b.1384, d.1453) [28]
13) Blanche of Burgundy (b.1388, 1440)
[1] He's got the same name, but he's a different guy from the OTL one
[2] ATL daughter of John I, Duke of Lorraine
[3] ATL son of John III, Duke of Armagnac
[4] ATL daughter of Louis I of Chalon, Count of Auxerre and Tonnerre (his elder brother - OTL John IV, Count of Auxerre - dies suddenly in 1369 before he can sell his county to the French king, thus Louis holds both counties instead of just Tonnerre)
[5] ATL grandson of Louis II, Duke of Bourbon
[6] ATL grandson of Gaston III, Duke of Foix
[7] ATL great-grandson of Peter II, Count of Alençon
[8] Granddaughter of aforementioned alt-Charles VI of France. Yes, that makes them second cousins.
[9] ATL grandson of Charles III of Navarre
[10] ATL great-grandson of Louis I of Hungary
[11] ATL granddaughter of Albert I, Duke of Bavaria-Straubing, Count of Holland and Hainaut
[12] ATL great-grandson of Charles IV, Holy Roman Emperor
[13] ATL great-granddaughter of Adolf III of the Marck
[14] ATL great-grandson of Edward, Duke of Guelders (who doesn't die in battle TTL)
[15] ATL great-grandson of William VII of Jülich, 1st Duke of Berg
[16]
[17] ATL daughter of Waleran III, Count of Ligny and Saint-Pol
[18] ATL granddaughter of John IV the Conqueror, Duke of Brittany
[19] ATL great-grandson of Louis I, Count of Étampes
[20] ATL great-great-grandson of Louis II, Count of Blois
[21] ATL great-grandson of Louis I of Anjou
[22] ATL son of John I, Count of La Marche
[23] ATL son of Philip of Artois, Count of Eu
[24] ATL grandson of Rudolf VI, Margrave of Baden-Baden
[25] ATL son of John, Duke of Berry
[26] ATL son of Philip the Bold, who is Duke of Touraine TTL.
[27] ATL son of Gian Galeazzo Visconti
[28] Same name, different guy
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Scenario: Surviving Neapolitan Dynasty.
Joanna, Princess of Naples (b.1478: d.1518) (a) m. Ferdinand II, King of Naples (b.1469: d.1496) (a), Alfonso I d'Este, Duke of Ferrara (b.1476: d.1534) (b)
Joanna, Princess of Naples (b.1478: d.1518) (a) m. Ferdinand II, King of Naples (b.1469: d.1496) (a), Alfonso I d'Este, Duke of Ferrara (b.1476: d.1534) (b)
1a) Ferdinand III, King of Naples (b.1497: d.1549) m. Bona Sforza (b.1494: d.1557) (a)
1a) Catherine, Princess of Naples (b.1514: d.1560) m. Alessandro de' Medici, Duke of Florence (b.1510: d.1537) (a)
- had no issue
2a) Beatrice, Princess of Naples (b.1516: d.1557) m. Fadrique Álvarez de Toledo, 2nd Duke of Alba (c.1460: d.1531) (a), William I, Count of Nassau-Dillenburg (b.1487: d.1559) (b)
1b) William I, Prince of Orange (b.1532)
2b) Ferdinand of Nassau (b.1535)
3b) Elizabeth of Nassau (b.1536)
4b) Charles of Nassau (b.1538: d.1540)
5a) Adolf of Nassau (b.1539)
6a) Eleanor of Nassau (b.1540)
7a) Maria of Nassau (b.1542: d.1542)
8a) Beatrice of Nassau (b.1543)
9a) Louis of Nassau (b.1545)
10a) Philip of Nassau (b.1546)
11a) Catherine of Nassau (b.1548: d.1555)
12a) Maximiliam of Nassau (b.1549)
13a) Margaret of Nassau (b.1550)
3a) Alfonso III, King of Naples (b.1519: d.1559) m. Amalia of Cleves (b.1517: d.1541) (a), Ippolita della Rovere (b.1525: d.1561) (a)
1a) Ferdinand III, King of Naples (b.1540: d.1560)
2a) Frederick II, King of Naples (b.1541)
4a) Charles, Prince of Naples (b.1521: d.1522)
5a) Alessandro, Duke of Bari (b.1522: d.1558) m. Joanna Sforza (b.1536: d.1579) (a)
- had surviving issue
6a) Ippolita, Princess of Naples (b.1525: d.1600) m. Ercole II d'Este, Duke of Ferrara (b.1529: d.1578) (a)
- had surviving issue
7a) Ferdinand, Archbishop of Milan (b.1527: d.1609)
2b) Alfonso II d'Este, Duke of Ferrara (b.1500: d.1537) m. Charlotte de Brosse (c.1505: d.1579) (a)
1a) Ercole II d'Este, Duke of Ferrara (b.1529: d.1578) m. Ippolita, Princess of Naples (b.1525: d.1600) (a)
1a) Stillborn Son (c.1548)
2a) Eleonora d'Este (b.1550: d.1555)
3a) Ercole III d'Este, Duke of Ferrara (b.1553)
4a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1555)
5a) Ferdinand d'Este (b.1558: d.1570)
2a) Valentina d'Este (b.1533: d.1587) m. García de Toledo Osorio, 4th Marquess of Villafranca (b.1514: d.1577) (a)
1a) Alfonso de Toledo Osorio (b.1554: d.1555)
2a) Beatrice Maria de Toledo Osorio (b.1557)
3a) Eleonora de Toledo Osorio (b.1559)
4a) Luis Ferdinando de Toledo Osorio, 5th Marquess of Villafranca (b.1563)
3b) Isabella d'Este (b.1503: d.1558) m. Wolfgang, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen (b.1492: d.1566) (a)
1a) Joanna of Anhalt-Köthen (b.1522: d.1598) m. Christopher, Count of Oldenburg (c.1504: d.1566)
1a) Dorothea of Oldenburg (b.1546)
2a) Frederick, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen (b.1525: d.1573) m. Catherine of Stolberg (c.1540: d.1569) (a)
1a) Ursula of Anhalt-Köthen (b.1560)
2a) Frederick II, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen (b.1563)
3a) Maximilian of Anhalt-Köthen (b.1567)
3a) Margaret of Anhalt-Köthen (b.1526: d.1571) m. Philipp III, Count of Hanau-Münzenberg (b.1526: d.1561) (a)
1a) Barbara of Hanau-Münzenberg (b.1548)
2a) Philipp IV, Count of Hanau-Münzenberg (b.1551)
3a) Nicholas of Hanau-Münzenberg (b.1553)
4a) Louis of Hanau-Münzenberg (b.1555)
5a) Marie of Hanau-Münzenberg (b.1556)
6a) John Frederick of Hanau-Münzenberg (b.1559)
7a) Isabella of Hanau-Münzenberg (b.1561)
8a) George of Hanau-Münzenberg (b.1563)
9a) Albert of Hanau-Münzenberg (b.1564)
10a) Charlotte of Hanau-Münzenberg (b.1566)
4a) Anne of Anhalt-Köthen (b.1528: d.1548) m. Philip III, Count of Nassau-Weilburg (b.1504: d.1559) (a)
- had no issue
5a) Charles of Anhalt-Köthen (b.1529: d.1535)
6a) Kunigunde of Anhalt-Köthen (b.1532: d.1590) m. Bernard IV, Margrave of Baden-Durlach (b.1517: d.1553) (a)
1a) Bernard V, Margrave of Baden-Durlach (b.1550)
7a) Elisabeth of Anhalt-Köthen (b.1534: d.1567)
8a) Catherine of Anhalt-Köthen (b.1535: d.1536)
9a) Beatrice of Anhalt-Köthen (b.1538: d.1600) John III, Count of Ligny (c.1540: d.1576) (a)
1a) Eleonor of Luxembourg (b.1558)
2a) Francois I, Count of Ligny (b.1561)
3a) John of Luxembourg (b.1565)
4a) Charlotte of Luxembourg (b.1569)
10a) Magdalena of Anhalt-Köthen (b.1540: d.1605) m. John Sigismund Zápolya, Prince of Transylvania (b.1540: d.1571) (a)
1a) Louis Zápolya, Prince of Transylvania (b.1562)
2a) Catherine Zápolya (b.1565)
11a) John of Anhalt-Köthen (b.1542: d.1559)
4b) Frederick d'Este, Archbishop of Milan (b.1505: d.1578)
5b) Maria d'Este (b.1509: d.1540) m. Francesco II Sforza, Duke of Milan (b.1495: d.1535) (a)
1a) Francesco III Sforza, Duke of Milan (b.1535: d.1556)
2a) Joanna Sforza (b.1536: d.1579) m. Alessandro, Duke of Bari (b.1522: d.1558) (a)
1a) Alfonso, Duke of Milan and Bari (b.1556)
2a) Bona of Naples (b.1558)
3a) Guilia of Naples (b.1559)
John Sigismund Zapolya was grandson of Bona Sforza, who ITTL is Queen of Naples instead of Queen of Poland, thus he'd be butterflied away.
Francis II of Brittany has more daughters
Francis II (1433-1488) m. a) Margaret of Brittany b) Margaret of Navarre
1b) Anne of Brittany (1477-1514) m. a) Charles VIII of France b) Louis XII of France (OTL issue)
2b) Isabella (1478-1490)
3b) Margaret (1480)
4b) Mary (1481-1484)
5b) Eleanor (1484-1536) m. Vladislaus II (1456-1516) King of Bohemia and Hungary
6b) Catherine (1485-1543) m. a) John Albert (1459-1501) King of Poland b) Ferdinand II (1452-1516) King of Aragon
Francis II (1433-1488) m. a) Margaret of Brittany b) Margaret of Navarre
1b) Anne of Brittany (1477-1514) m. a) Charles VIII of France b) Louis XII of France (OTL issue)
2b) Isabella (1478-1490)
3b) Margaret (1480)
4b) Mary (1481-1484)
5b) Eleanor (1484-1536) m. Vladislaus II (1456-1516) King of Bohemia and Hungary
1) Louis II (1503-1559) King of Bohemia and Hungary, m. Mary of Austria (1505-1558)
2) Anna (1505-1508)
3) Catherine (1507-1536) m. Ferdinand Habsburg (1503-1564) Holy Roman Emperor
6b) Catherine (1485-1543) m. a) John Albert (1459-1501) King of Poland b) Ferdinand II (1452-1516) King of Aragon
1a) Hedwig (1501-1557) m. Stanisław (1500-1524) Duke of Mazovia
2b) John III (1508-1561) King of Aragon 1516, m. Catherine of Austria (1507-1578)
Louis XVIII has a surviving son and said son marries Marie Therese of France, also, there's an earlier restoration here:
Louis XIX of France (b.1774: d.1838) m Marie Therese of France (b.1778: d.1845)
Issue:
Maria Josepha Antonia of France (b.1800)
Louis Charles, Dauphin of France, later Louis XX (b.1801)
stillborn son (b.1802: d.1802)
Stillborn daughter (b.1805: d.1805)
Louis Stanislaus Xavier, Duc de Anjou (b.1807)
Marie Therese Charlotte of France (b.1810)
stillborn daughter (b.1813: d.1813)
Louis XIX of France (b.1774: d.1838) m Marie Therese of France (b.1778: d.1845)
Issue:
Maria Josepha Antonia of France (b.1800)
Louis Charles, Dauphin of France, later Louis XX (b.1801)
stillborn son (b.1802: d.1802)
Stillborn daughter (b.1805: d.1805)
Louis Stanislaus Xavier, Duc de Anjou (b.1807)
Marie Therese Charlotte of France (b.1810)
stillborn daughter (b.1813: d.1813)
Sigismund the Old married Catharine of Mecklenburg.
Sigismund I (1467-1548) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland, m. Catherine of Mecklenburg (1487-1561)
1) Hedwig (1510-1556) m. Janusz III (1502-1526) Duke of Mazovia
2) Sigismund II (1512-1569) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1548, m. Elizabeth of Austria (1526-1571)
3) Elizabeth (1513-1566) m. John (1513-1571) Margrave of Brandenburg-Küstrin
4) Sophia (1515-1518)
5) Anna (1517-1551) m. Louis X (1495-1545) Duke of Bavaria-Landshut
6) Albert (1519-1522)
Sigismund I (1467-1548) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland, m. Catherine of Mecklenburg (1487-1561)
1) Hedwig (1510-1556) m. Janusz III (1502-1526) Duke of Mazovia
1) Janusz IV (1526-1568) Duke of Mazovia 1526
2) Sigismund II (1512-1569) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1548, m. Elizabeth of Austria (1526-1571)
1) Hedwig (1546-1554)
2) Catherine (1548)
3) Sigismund III (1551-1607) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1569
3) Elizabeth (1513-1566) m. John (1513-1571) Margrave of Brandenburg-Küstrin
1) Joachim (1534-1539)
2) Elizabeth (1535-1589)
3) John Sigismund (1537-1588) Margrave of Brandenburg-Küstrin
4) Frederick (1539)
5) Joachim (1542-1567)
6) Hedwig (1545-1603)
4) Sophia (1515-1518)
5) Anna (1517-1551) m. Louis X (1495-1545) Duke of Bavaria-Landshut
1) Louis (1536-1538)
2) Sigismund (1540-1597) Duke of Bavaria-Landshut
3) Kunigunde (1542)
4) Catherine (1545-1599)
6) Albert (1519-1522)
A scenario where Louis Joseph is born healthy:
Louis XVI of France (b.1754: d.1792) m Marie Antoinette (b.1755: d.1820)
Issue:
Marie Therese, Madame Royal (b.1778)
Louis Joseph, Dauphin of France (b.1781)
Louis Charles, Duke of Normandy (b.1785)
Sophie of France (b.1786: d.1787)
--------------------------
Louis XVII of France (b.1781: d.1843) m Maria Amalia of Naples and Sicily (b.1782: d.1855)
Issue:
Marie Antoinette, Madame Royal (b.1803)
Marie Therese of France (b.1804)
Louis Auguste, Dauphin of France (b.1806)
Stillborn son (b.1807: d.1807)
Stillborn daughter (b.1809: d.1809)
Louis Francis Joseph, Duc de Berry (b.1811)
Marie Clementina of France (b.1813)
Francois, Duc de Bordeaux (b.1816)
Charles of France (b.1819)
stillborn daughter (b.1821: d.1821)
Louis XVI of France (b.1754: d.1792) m Marie Antoinette (b.1755: d.1820)
Issue:
Marie Therese, Madame Royal (b.1778)
Louis Joseph, Dauphin of France (b.1781)
Louis Charles, Duke of Normandy (b.1785)
Sophie of France (b.1786: d.1787)
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Louis XVII of France (b.1781: d.1843) m Maria Amalia of Naples and Sicily (b.1782: d.1855)
Issue:
Marie Antoinette, Madame Royal (b.1803)
Marie Therese of France (b.1804)
Louis Auguste, Dauphin of France (b.1806)
Stillborn son (b.1807: d.1807)
Stillborn daughter (b.1809: d.1809)
Louis Francis Joseph, Duc de Berry (b.1811)
Marie Clementina of France (b.1813)
Francois, Duc de Bordeaux (b.1816)
Charles of France (b.1819)
stillborn daughter (b.1821: d.1821)
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Something that's been percolating in my head for a day or two. Very rough, so suggestions welcome.
When Claude of France miscarries her first daughter and predeceases her father because of it, Francis I decides to salvage the English alliance by marrying Louis's beautiful young widow..
Francis I of France (1494-1547) m 1514 Claude of France (1499-1514) (a) m. 1516 Mary of England (1496 -1549) (b)
1b Francis, Dauphin of France (1517 -) m Anne of Brittany (1525 - ) [1]
2b Louise of France (1519-1521)
3b Marie of France (1520 - ) m. James V of Scotland
4b Henri, Duke of Orleans (1522 -1533)
5b Charlotte of France (1523 - 1529)
6b Charles, Duke of Valois (1524 -)
7b. Marguerite of France (1526 -)
8b Elisabeth of France (1528 -)
9b Edouard of France (b and d. 1528) [2]
[1] Only daughter and heiress of Renee of France and an as yet unnamed husband. Suggestions welcome.
[2] Yes, Elisabeth and Edouard are twins. Mary never has another child - twins at 32 does for her fertility - although it's her son Henry who dies in 1533 here, not Marie herself. She gets to be Dowager Queen of France twice over ITTL.
@Brita @vandevere @Ogrebear @rgroberts @VVD0D95
When Claude of France miscarries her first daughter and predeceases her father because of it, Francis I decides to salvage the English alliance by marrying Louis's beautiful young widow..
Francis I of France (1494-1547) m 1514 Claude of France (1499-1514) (a) m. 1516 Mary of England (1496 -1549) (b)
1b Francis, Dauphin of France (1517 -) m Anne of Brittany (1525 - ) [1]
2b Louise of France (1519-1521)
3b Marie of France (1520 - ) m. James V of Scotland
4b Henri, Duke of Orleans (1522 -1533)
5b Charlotte of France (1523 - 1529)
6b Charles, Duke of Valois (1524 -)
7b. Marguerite of France (1526 -)
8b Elisabeth of France (1528 -)
9b Edouard of France (b and d. 1528) [2]
[1] Only daughter and heiress of Renee of France and an as yet unnamed husband. Suggestions welcome.
[2] Yes, Elisabeth and Edouard are twins. Mary never has another child - twins at 32 does for her fertility - although it's her son Henry who dies in 1533 here, not Marie herself. She gets to be Dowager Queen of France twice over ITTL.
@Brita @vandevere @Ogrebear @rgroberts @VVD0D95
Hmm I have a feeling Renee may be considered for Francis first before perhaps marrying a cadet or the royal family?
I considered that, but she's too young for the elder Francis, being all of four when Claude dies and a touch old for the younger Francis, being seven years older than him. I know it's the same age gap with her daughter, but at least the gap is the right way round, with the bride younger than the groom.
Mary of Burgundy does not die in 1482 and has big family with Max.
Mary of Burgundy (1457-1512) m. Maximilian (1459-1519) Holy Roman Emperor
1) Philip (1478-1506)
2) Margaret (1480-1530) m. a) John (1478-1497) Prince of Asturias b) Philibert II (1480-1529) Duke of Savoy
3) Francis (1481)
4) Eleanor (1483-1538) m. a) Wolfgang of Bavaria-Landshut (1482-1504)* b) Henry VII (1457-1509) King of England
5) Charles (1485)
6) Kunigunde (1488-1493)
7) Charles (1490-1494)
8) Mary (1492-1500)
9) John (1495-1552) Holy Roman Emperor 1519, m. Anna of Bohemia and Hungary (1503-1563)
10) Agnes (1497-1540) m. Christian II (1481-1559) King of Denmark, Norway and Sweden
11) Catherine (1499-1554) m. Sigismund I (1467-1548) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland
* Son of George the Rich, IOTL died as infant after being dropped nanny.
Mary of Burgundy (1457-1512) m. Maximilian (1459-1519) Holy Roman Emperor
1) Philip (1478-1506)
2) Margaret (1480-1530) m. a) John (1478-1497) Prince of Asturias b) Philibert II (1480-1529) Duke of Savoy
3) Francis (1481)
4) Eleanor (1483-1538) m. a) Wolfgang of Bavaria-Landshut (1482-1504)* b) Henry VII (1457-1509) King of England
5) Charles (1485)
6) Kunigunde (1488-1493)
7) Charles (1490-1494)
8) Mary (1492-1500)
9) John (1495-1552) Holy Roman Emperor 1519, m. Anna of Bohemia and Hungary (1503-1563)
10) Agnes (1497-1540) m. Christian II (1481-1559) King of Denmark, Norway and Sweden
11) Catherine (1499-1554) m. Sigismund I (1467-1548) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland
* Son of George the Rich, IOTL died as infant after being dropped nanny.
Hmm perhaps a surviving Francis of Clermont son of the duke and duchess of bourbon? Could keep Charles duke of bourbon loyal?
Ooh, now there's a shout. He gets Brittany and then Francis's daughter gets to be Queen after that and Brittany is brought into the French sphere a generation later than OTL.