VVD0D95
Banned
Hmm true though would Maria be more open to missy marrying Albert as he’s the heir? And if no missy or alix who could be considered?
List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage
- Thread starter Jonathan
- Start date
Sigismund the Old marries 3 times.
Sigismund I (1467-1548) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland, m. a) Barbara Zapolya (ca 1495-1515) b) Bona Sforza (1494-1522) c) Eleanor of Austria (1498-1558)
1a) Hedwig (1513-1573) m. Joachim II Elector of Brandenburg or Francis I King of France (instead of her ATL stepmother) ? Unresolved yet, help welcomed.
2a) Anna (1515-1520)
3b) Isabella (1519-1579) m. Frederick II Gonzaga (1500-1540) Duke of Mantua
4b) Sigismund Augustus (1520-1547) m. Elizabeth of Austria (1526-1545)
5b) Sophia (1522-1576) m. Albert II (1522-1576) Duke of Prussia**
6c) Albert II (1525-1574) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1548, m. Catherine of Austria (1533-1571)
7c) Anna (1528-1571) m. Ferdinand (1529-1595) Archduke of Tirol
* ITTL Albert, first Duke of Prussia dies in 1526, thus his brother Casimir instead of fighting in Hungary, where he died from dysentery IOTL, goes to Prussia to inherit the Duchy after deceased brother, his son, known IOTL as Albert Alcibiades, succeedes him as Albert II of Prussia. Albert Alcibiades is Catholic ITTL, being raised by Catholic father instead of Protestant uncle.
Sigismund I (1467-1548) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland, m. a) Barbara Zapolya (ca 1495-1515) b) Bona Sforza (1494-1522) c) Eleanor of Austria (1498-1558)
1a) Hedwig (1513-1573) m. Joachim II Elector of Brandenburg or Francis I King of France (instead of her ATL stepmother) ? Unresolved yet, help welcomed.
2a) Anna (1515-1520)
3b) Isabella (1519-1579) m. Frederick II Gonzaga (1500-1540) Duke of Mantua
1) Francis III (1537-1589) Duke of Mantua 1540
2) Isabella (1539-1573)
4b) Sigismund Augustus (1520-1547) m. Elizabeth of Austria (1526-1545)
5b) Sophia (1522-1576) m. Albert II (1522-1576) Duke of Prussia**
1) Albert Casimir (1545-1550)
2) Sigismund (1548-1601) Duke of Prussia
3) Frederick (1550-1598) Margrave of Bayreuth
6c) Albert II (1525-1574) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1548, m. Catherine of Austria (1533-1571)
1) Hedwig (1550-1611)
2) Eleanor (1552-1578)
3) Anna (1554-1559)
4) Sigismund (1555-1557)
5) Albert III (1557-1611) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1574
6) Sophia (1559-1585)
7) Sigismund (1562-1584)
7c) Anna (1528-1571) m. Ferdinand (1529-1595) Archduke of Tirol
1) Anna (1550-1590)
2) Ferdinand (1552-1555)
3) Sigismund (1554-1602) Archduke of Tirol
4) Eleanor (1556)
* Sigismund Augustus dies in hunting accident (he was close to being killed by bear in 1547 IOTL)* ITTL Albert, first Duke of Prussia dies in 1526, thus his brother Casimir instead of fighting in Hungary, where he died from dysentery IOTL, goes to Prussia to inherit the Duchy after deceased brother, his son, known IOTL as Albert Alcibiades, succeedes him as Albert II of Prussia. Albert Alcibiades is Catholic ITTL, being raised by Catholic father instead of Protestant uncle.
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While I just love this idea - it would surely make a really beautiful TL - I'm just not sure Anne would have so many surviving children. She had trouble giving birth to healthy children OTL and she's already born when the POD happens. Maybe if her sister Isabeau survives she can marry one of the husbands you gave to Anne?
No Missy's mom hated England and particularly didn't like being lower in the line of precedence than Alexandra, while Alex thought Maria was too pro-German. Plus Maria was anti-first cousin marriage, which wasn't allowed in Orthodoxy. George did propose to Missy after Eddy's death, but by that time she saw the writing on the wall and her mother was already pushing her towards Romania.
The issue is between Victoria and Alexandra there was quite a demanding list. They couldn't be too German/pro-Prussia lest Alex threw a fit (hence why Mossy and Helena's girls were disregarded despite pushing from their mothers) but Victoria had a demanding list as well (they had to be decently attractive, smart, etc...) The only three who met both sets of qualifications IOTL were Alix, Helene of Orleans, and May of Teck. Alix didn't want the job (and was already in love with Nicky), Helene wanted it but her dad and the pope refused to let her convert, leaving May as the only viable option despite her morganatic blood and her parents being Vic's poor relations.
Your best chance at someone who isn't Alix or May of Teck is probably to kill off Helene's dad a year or two early and have her brother/mom let the poor girl convert.
VVD0D95
Banned
Hmm this is very true, I do wonder what the ripples would be from Helene converting to Anglicanism, and how happy she and ol' Eddy would be.
The two of them were apparently in love, with Eddy's last words supposedly being "Helene" (while Mary was in the room, which must have been awkward). I think they would have been happy together and I think Helene would have loved being Queen (IOTL she was offered to Eddy and the Tsar and got ... the Duke of Aosta).
VVD0D95
Banned
Oooh well now that's very interesting. I may need to rejig some of my idea and bring this into play.
Absolutely true... Alicky not being in love with Nicholas AND more amenable to Victoria’s pressures would be also pretty interesting...
Still Helene is the best option... I think May was not really upset for that last words, pretty unlikely she was in love with Eddy and surely she knew about his broken heart...
I think who with Eddy married to either Alicky or Helene we will still see a match between George and May
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Andrew III of Hungary lives slightly longer (and Wenceslauses II and III live a LOT longer), and the betrothal of Wenceslaus III of Bohemia and Elizabeth of Töss is actually followed through.
Wenceslaus III of Bohemia/II of Poland/I of Hungary (b.1289; d.1340) m. Elizabeth of Hungary (b.1289; d.1338)
1) Andrew IV of Hungary/I of Bohemia and Poland (b.1309; d.1354) m. Amalia of Poland[1] (b.1304; d.1367)
7) stillborn son 1321
[1] ATL daughter of Wladyslaw the Elbow-High
[2] ATL granddaughter of Otto III, Duke of Bavaria, and great-great-granddaughter of Béla IV of Hungary
[3] ATL daughter of Trojden I, Duke of Masovia
[4] ATL daughter of Robert, King of Naples, and great-granddaughter of Stephen V of Hungary
[5] ATL son of John Kőszegi
[6] ATL son of Andrew of Galicia
[7] ATL son of Boleslaw III the Generous
[8] ATL son of Mladen II Šubić of Bribir
- Andrew III makes it through 1301 without dying. His wife gives birth to a son -- named Stephen -- in 1305. Feeling more secure with an heir, Andrew allows the betrothal between his daughter and Wenceslaus Jr to go through. The two are married the following year.
- Andrew's luck ends 1308, when he dies suddenly in a riding accident. His infant son is crowned Stephen VI.
- With the prospect of an easily controlled child king, Charles Robert of Anjou -- who has been skulking about Croatia since 1300 -- starts rapidly hemorrhaging supporters.
- Elizabeth gives birth to her firstborn son in late 1309, named Andrew after his late grandfather.
- Mere months later, Stephen VI dies from an illness, only weeks after his 4th birthday.
- Wenceslaus Jr. and Elizabeth claim the throne of Hungary, Charles Robert disputes their claim, the ensuing succession war is abruptly cut short when Charles Robert is killed in battle in the summer of 1311. After weeks of armwrestling over whether the Holy Crown should go to Wenceslaus, Elizabeth, or even baby Andrew, Wenceslaus Jr. is finally crowned King of Hungary.
- Pleased with the outcome, Wenceslaus Sr. turns his attention back to Poland, where he keeps his lucky streak going by capturing and executing Wladyslaw the Elbow-high in 1313, taking both of his daughters to his custody. The younger, Amalia, is promptly betrothed to young Andrew. The elder daughter, Kunigunde, is eventually carted off into a convent.
- In 1321, Wenceslaus II of Bohemia finally dies at the age of 50, having secured both Poland and Hungary for his son.
- By the 1340s, the Přemyslids have come to the conclusion that ruling an empire stretching from the Baltic to the Adriatic is more trouble than it's worth. The Poles are persnickety, the Hungarians are cantankerous, and if the kings try placating them with a softer hand the Bohemians get grumpy. They can't focus on HRE affairs because they're constantly focusing on either keeping their nobles in line or propping up Galicia-Volhynia as a buffer against the Golden Horde. They'd love to split their realms, but the younger sons keep. Not. Having. Living. HEIRS!!! Both Andrew IV and Ladislaus V famously went prematurely gray.
Wenceslaus III of Bohemia/II of Poland/I of Hungary (b.1289; d.1340) m. Elizabeth of Hungary (b.1289; d.1338)
1) Andrew IV of Hungary/I of Bohemia and Poland (b.1309; d.1354) m. Amalia of Poland[1] (b.1304; d.1367)
1) Ladislaus V of Hungary/IV of Bohemia/II of Poland (b.1324; d.1363) m. Anna of Bavaria[2] (b.1323; d.1376)
1) Andrew (b.1342; d.1351)
2) Stephen VII of Hungary/I of Poland and Bohemia (b.1343)
3) Elizabeth of Bohemia (b.1345)
4) Anna (b.1347; d.1348)
5) Lucia of Hungary (b.1349)
6) Wenceslaus (b.1351; d.1351)
2) Andrew (b.1325; d.1339)
3) Casimir of Poland (b.1326; d.1358) m. Catherine of Masovia[3] (b.1329; d.1355)
1) Mary (b.1345; d.1345)
2) Ottokar (b.1346; d.1347)
3) stillborn son 1347
4) Margaret (b.1348; d.1348)
5) stillborn daughter 1349
6) Rastislav (b.1350; d.1353)
2) Michael of Hungary (b.1311; d.1349) m. Constance of Naples[4] (b.1305; d.1345)1) stillborn son 1326
2) Margaret of Hungary (b.1327; d.1349) m. Gregory II Kőszegi[5] (b.1328; d.1390)
1) Nicholas (b.1344; d.1345)
2) Andrew (b.1345; d.1348)
3) Ivan II Kőszegi (b.1347; d.1383)
4) stillborn son 1349
3) Stephen (b.1329; d.1329)
4) stillborn daughter 1331
5) Elizabeth (b.1332; d.1333)
6) Wenceslaus (b.1334; d.1335)
7) stillborn daughter 1335
3) Mary of Bohemia (b.1313; d.1347) m. Dmytro of Galicia[6] (b.1311; d.1341)1) Lev (b.1329; d.1329)
2) Maria (b.1330; d.1331)
3) Vladimir (b.1332; d.1332)
4) Mikhail, King of Galicia-Volhynia (b.1335; d.1383)
5) stillborn son 1336
6) Yaroslava (b.1338; d.1375)
4) Hedwig of Hungary (b.1315; d.1351) m. Jaroslaw of Legnica[7] (b.1319; d.1364)1) Barbara (b.1335; d.1335)
2) Agnes (b.1336; d.1336)
3) Boleslaw IV, Duke of Legnica (b.1338; d.1378)
4) Rastislaw (b.1339; d.1341)
5) Margaret (b.1341; d.1344)
6) stillborn son 1342
7) Henry (b.1347; d.1357)
5) Anna of Croatia (b.1317; d.1339) m. Mladen III Šubić of Bribir[8] (b.1302; d.1350)1) Juraj (b.1332; d.1332)
2) stillborn daughter 1334
3) Nikola Šubić, Ban of Croatia (b.1335; d.1381)
4) Jelena (b.1337; d.1359)
5) stillborn son 1339
6) Ladislaus (b.1319; d.1321)7) stillborn son 1321
[1] ATL daughter of Wladyslaw the Elbow-High
[2] ATL granddaughter of Otto III, Duke of Bavaria, and great-great-granddaughter of Béla IV of Hungary
[3] ATL daughter of Trojden I, Duke of Masovia
[4] ATL daughter of Robert, King of Naples, and great-granddaughter of Stephen V of Hungary
[5] ATL son of John Kőszegi
[6] ATL son of Andrew of Galicia
[7] ATL son of Boleslaw III the Generous
[8] ATL son of Mladen II Šubić of Bribir
- Andrew III makes it through 1301 without dying. His wife gives birth to a son -- named Stephen -- in 1305. Feeling more secure with an heir, Andrew allows the betrothal between his daughter and Wenceslaus Jr to go through. The two are married the following year.
- Andrew's luck ends 1308, when he dies suddenly in a riding accident. His infant son is crowned Stephen VI.
- With the prospect of an easily controlled child king, Charles Robert of Anjou -- who has been skulking about Croatia since 1300 -- starts rapidly hemorrhaging supporters.
- Elizabeth gives birth to her firstborn son in late 1309, named Andrew after his late grandfather.
- Mere months later, Stephen VI dies from an illness, only weeks after his 4th birthday.
- Wenceslaus Jr. and Elizabeth claim the throne of Hungary, Charles Robert disputes their claim, the ensuing succession war is abruptly cut short when Charles Robert is killed in battle in the summer of 1311. After weeks of armwrestling over whether the Holy Crown should go to Wenceslaus, Elizabeth, or even baby Andrew, Wenceslaus Jr. is finally crowned King of Hungary.
- Pleased with the outcome, Wenceslaus Sr. turns his attention back to Poland, where he keeps his lucky streak going by capturing and executing Wladyslaw the Elbow-high in 1313, taking both of his daughters to his custody. The younger, Amalia, is promptly betrothed to young Andrew. The elder daughter, Kunigunde, is eventually carted off into a convent.
- In 1321, Wenceslaus II of Bohemia finally dies at the age of 50, having secured both Poland and Hungary for his son.
- By the 1340s, the Přemyslids have come to the conclusion that ruling an empire stretching from the Baltic to the Adriatic is more trouble than it's worth. The Poles are persnickety, the Hungarians are cantankerous, and if the kings try placating them with a softer hand the Bohemians get grumpy. They can't focus on HRE affairs because they're constantly focusing on either keeping their nobles in line or propping up Galicia-Volhynia as a buffer against the Golden Horde. They'd love to split their realms, but the younger sons keep. Not. Having. Living. HEIRS!!! Both Andrew IV and Ladislaus V famously went prematurely gray.
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I did consider having the eldest and youngest daughter not survive, but also, it's possible not having to carry the role of Duchess and Queen would allow Anne to be less stressed and thus not lose so many children. It'd depend on who I needed to be important for this as a timeline tbh.
More for the Breton Independence Things I did: Here
Louis XII of France (b.1462: d.1515) m. Jeanne, Princess of France (b.1464: d.1505) (a), Germaine of Foix (b.1488: d.1536) (b)
Louis XII of France (b.1462: d.1515) m. Jeanne, Princess of France (b.1464: d.1505) (a), Germaine of Foix (b.1488: d.1536) (b)
1b) Louis XIII, King of France (b.1505: d.1564) m. Mary, Archduchess of Austria (b.1505: d.1558) (a), p. Suzanne de Bourbon (b.1508: d.1570) (b)
1a) Francois I, King of France (b.1529)
2a) Marie, Princess of France (b.1532)
3a) Charles, Duke of Orleans (b.1536)
4b) Germaine de Valois (b.1538) - bastard
6b) Catherine de Valois (b.1540) - bastard
2b) Anne, Princess of France (b.1507: d.1545) m. Charles III, Duke of Bourbon (b.1490: d.1527) (a), Henri II, King of Navarre (b.1503: d.1555) (b)
1a) Marguerite of Bourbon (b.1524: d.1524)
2a) Isabelle of Bourbon (b.1525: d.1526)
3a) Charles III, Duke of Bourbon (b.1527)
4b) Stillborn Son (c.1529)
5b) Charles, Comte de Foix (b.1530: d.1535)
6b) Eleanor d'Albret, Princess of Navarre (b.1533)
7b) Stillborn Son (c.1535)
8b) John III, King of Navarre (b.1538)
9b) Stillborn Son (c.1539)
10b) Marie d'Albret, Princess of Navarre (b.1540: d.1543)
3b) Charlotte, Princess of France (b.1509: d.1598) m. Peter IV, Duke of Brittany (b.1520: d.1579) (a)
1a) Elisabeth of Brittany (b.1539)
2a) Stillborn Son (c.1540)
3a) Peter V, Duke of Brittany (b.1542)
4a) Catherine of Brittany (b.1543)
5a) Jean of Brittany (b.1545)
6a) Francois of Brittany (b.1546)
7a) Marie of Brittany (b.1548)
4b) Catherine, Princess of France (b.1511: d.1540) m. James V, King of Scotland (b.1512: d.1542) (a)
1a) James VI, King of Scotland (b.1538)
2a) Louis, Duke of Albany (b.1539)
5b) Francois, Duke of Orleans (b.1512: d.1529)
Some Things That Happened: - The young Dauphin of France was betrothed, in 1514, to Catherine, Archduchess of Austria, then in 1521 to Mary Tudor, Princess of England, only daughter of the King of England. In 1524 he once again attempted to marry the Archduchess, only to be rebuffed and refuse the consolation prize of her younger sister, asserting Eleanor of Austria was too old to be his bride. Eventually, in 1526, Catherine's elder sister Mary was widowed in Hungary, and in 1527 the two were married in a proxy marriage, and then in 1528 were to finally meet. Mary, unhappily pressured into her second marriage, was a reluctant Queen, and after the birth of a son in 1529, removed herself from many of the courtly entertainments. The marriage produced three children and after the birth of a second son in 1536, the two seem to have ended their relations. Louis XIII of France had many mistresses, including the Dowager Countess of Candale, Suzanne de Bourbon, by whom he had 2 illegitimate daughters, the only bastards he ever acknowledged.
- Anne of France, the eldest daughter, followed her namesake in 1524 when she was married to the Duke of Bourbon in an effort to match the Angouleme-Breton alliance. She has one surviving child by this union, and in late 1528 married the King of Navarre following her widowhood, taking what had been considered a likely match for her younger sister. This marriage will produce a further two healthy children.
- Charlotte, as has been established, marries late, in 1538, to the Duke of Brittany, and has 6 surviving children. It's likely this marriage is made to deter Henry VIII's suit for the Princess, who was considered an option for his fourth wife following the death of Jane Seymour.
- Catherine, the youngest child, is also considered the most intelligent but also the roughest, and in 1535 makes a good match to the King of Scotland, where it is expected she will flourish. Unfortunately, sweating sickness takes her in 1540, leaving behind two sons by her husband.
- Francois, the youngest son of Louis XII and Germaine of Foix, dies in his youth.
Louis XII will NOT marry Germaine of Foix, as he has nothing to gain in marrying his own niece and getting a dispensation for marrying her would be not easy, specially if he still need to divorce from Jeanne...
Louise of Savoy is in her late 20s and would be a not bad choice, her daughter Marguerite d’Angouleme (14 in 1506) also a possibility, Charlotte of Naples, if she is still unmarried, Suzanne de Bourbon (the daughter of Anne of France, niece of his first wife) likely his best options, also Anne of Foix-Candale or Charlotte d’Albret would be better matches than Germaine...
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George-May more or less as they fit the bill for the other and serious alternatives for both are missing, plus theirs in the end was a love match so is likely who they will still fall in love if pushed together in different circumstances than OTLI’ll keep that in mind
VVD0D95
Banned
This is very true, so perhaps eddy and Helene marry in 1892, following her fathers death. George and May marry the following year?
Yes, pretty likely. Duchess of York is the best May can aspire with Eddy already married AND George need a wife without any political complication (specially after his brother married newly converted Helene) and May is the only british princess available NOT descendant of Queen Victoria (who liked May a lot) so..
That depend from Eddy, Helene and their offsprings... Still no Edward VIII and no Wallis Simpson saga can be only good for England
Blanche of Castile m. Louis VIII d. 1216(a) Theobald I of Navarre(b)
1a. Blanche of France m. Sancho II of Navarre
2a. Philip III of France b. 1209
3a. Robert, Count of Artois b. 1216 m. Mary I of Flanders b. 1216[1]
4b. Henry I of Navarre b. 1218
5b. Isabella of Navarre b. 1220
6b. Theobald of Navarre b. 1223
1. Daughter of Joanna of Flanders
1a. Blanche of France m. Sancho II of Navarre
2a. Philip III of France b. 1209
3a. Robert, Count of Artois b. 1216 m. Mary I of Flanders b. 1216[1]
4b. Henry I of Navarre b. 1218
5b. Isabella of Navarre b. 1220
6b. Theobald of Navarre b. 1223
1. Daughter of Joanna of Flanders