List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage

[ordinarylittleme]

Alternate version of "Mary Tudor has a twin brother"

Henry VIII, King of England (b. 1491) m. Katherine of Aragon, Queen of England (b. 1485)

1) Mary, Princess of England (b. 1516) m. a) John, Crown Prince of Denmark, Norway and Sweden (b. 1518, d. 1533) in 1532, b) James V, King of Scotland (b. 1512) in 1536

1a) John II, King of Denmark, Norway and Sweden (b. 1534) m. Catherine, Archduchess of Austria (b. 1533)​

2b) James VI, King of Scotland (b. 1537) m. Elisabeth, Princess of France (b. 1545)​

3b) Margaret, Princess of Scotland (b. 1539) m. Emmanuel Philibert, Duke of Savoy (b. 1528)​

2) Henry IX, King of England (b. 1516) m. a) Charlotte, Princess of France (b. 1516, d. 1536) in 1532, b) Maria, Duchess of Viseu (b. 1521) in 1537

1a) Katherine, Princess of England (b. 1533) m. Francis III Gonzaga, Duke of Mantua (b. 1533)​

2a) Mary, Princess of England (b. 1536) m. John Manuel, Prince of Portugal (b. 1537)​

3b) Edward VI, King of England (b. 1539) m. Barbara, Archduchess of Austria (b. 1539)​

4b) Henry, Duke of York (b. 1541) m. Mary Grey (b. 1545)​

​

Plausible? @isabella @VVD0D95 @BlueFlowwer @FalconHonour

 

[Dame Violet]

POD: Charles V dies before 1525. Redo of this post.

Holy Roman Emperor Ferdinand I (IV of Spain) (1503- 1554) m. Empress Anna of Hungary (1503-1547).

1. Archduchess Elizabeth of Austria (1526-1545) m. Sigismund II Augustus of Poland (1520-1572).​

2. Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian II (1527-1576) m. Margaret of Valois (1523-1574).​

1. Anna of Austria, Queen of Portugal (1547-1580) m. King Carlos I of Portugal (1545-1588).​

1. Infante Ferdinand (1571-1578).​

2. Infante Carlos (1571-1573)​

3. King Diego I of Spain and Portugal (1575-1622).​

4. Infante Felipe (1578-1621).​

5. Infanta Maria (1580-1583).​

2. Archduke Ferdinand (1549-1552)​

3. Holy Roman Emperor Francis I (1550-1612).​

4. Archduke Rudolf (1553-1595)​

5. Elizabeth of Austria (1554-1592) m. Henri Emmunel, Duke of Savoy (1552-1620).​

6. Margaret of Austria (b and d 1555).​

7. Matthias of Austria (1557-1619).​

8. Maximilian of Austria (1560-1618).​

9. Charles of Austria (1562-1631).​

10. Margaret of Austria (1564-1633).​

3. Archduchess Anna of Austria (1528-1590) m. Albert IV, Duke of Bavaria (1528-1579)​

4. King Carlos II of Spain (1529-1595). m. Maria Manuela of Portugal (1528-1545). (a) Elizabeth of France (1543-1590) (b).​

1a. Carlos I of Portugal (1545-1588). m. Archduchess Anna of Austria (1547-1580).​

2b. Infanta Anna Clara (1564-1633).​

3b. Infanta Maria Michaela (1566-1604).​

4b. Infanta Isabella Eugenia (1567-1597).​

5b. Infanta Juana (b and d 1560).​

6b. Infanta Margarita Catalina (1565-1617).​

5. Archduchess Maria of Austria (1531-1581). m. William, Duke of Cleves (1516-1592).​

6. Archduchess Magdalena of Austria (1532-1590).​

7. Archduchess Catherine of Austria (1533-1572). m. Fredrick III, Elector of the Palatine [1525-1588].​

8. Archduchess Eleanor of Austria (1534-1594) m. King Edward VI of England (1531-1563)​

9. Archduchess Margaret of Austria (1536-1567).​

10. Archduke John (1538-1539).​

11. Archduchess Barbara of Austria (1539-1572) m. João Manuel, Prince of Portugal (1537-1544) (a) m. Guglielmo Gonzaga, Duke of Mantua [1538-1587) (b)​

12. King Ferdinand II of Hungary (1540-1590) m. Renata of Lorraine (1544-1602).​

13. Archduchess Ursula of Austria (1541-1543)​

14. Archduchess Helena of Austria (1543-1574).​

15. Archduchess Joanna of Austria (1547-1608). m. Alfonso II d'Este, Duke of Ferrara (1533-1597).​

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

POD: Charles V dies before 1525. Redo of this post.

Holy Roman Emperor Ferdinand I (IV of Spain) (1503- 1554) m. Empress Anna of Hungary (1503-1547).

1. Archduchess Elizabeth of Austria (1526-1545) m. Sigismund II Augustus of Poland (1520-1572).​

2. Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian II (1527-1576) m. Margaret of Valois (1523-1574).​

1. Anna of Austria, Queen of Portugal (1547-1580) m. King Carlos I of Portugal (1545-1588).​

1. Infante Ferdinand (1571-1578).​

2. Infante Carlos (1571-1573)​

3. King Diego I of Spain and Portugal (1575-1622).​

4. Infante Felipe (1578-1621).​

5. Infanta Maria (1580-1583).​

2. Archduke Ferdinand (1549-1552)​

3. Holy Roman Emperor Francis I (1550-1612).​

4. Archduke Rudolf (1553-1595)​

5. Elizabeth of Austria (1554-1592) m. Henri Emmunel, Duke of Savoy (1552-1620).​

6. Margaret of Austria (b and d 1555).​

7. Matthias of Austria (1557-1619).​

8. Maximilian of Austria (1560-1618).​

9. Charles of Austria (1562-1631).​

10. Margaret of Austria (1564-1633).​

3. Archduchess Anna of Austria (1528-1590) m. Albert IV, Duke of Bavaria (1528-1579)​

4. King Carlos II of Spain (1529-1595). m. Maria Manuela of Portugal (1528-1545). (a) Elizabeth of France (1543-1590) (b).​

1a. Carlos I of Portugal (1545-1588). m. Archduchess Anna of Austria (1547-1580).​

2b. Infanta Anna Clara (1564-1633).​

3b. Infanta Maria Michaela (1566-1604).​

4b. Infanta Isabella Eugenia (1567-1597).​

5b. Infanta Juana (b and d 1560).​

6b. Infanta Margarita Catalina (1565-1617).​

5. Archduchess Maria of Austria (1531-1581). m. William, Duke of Cleves (1516-1592).​

6. Archduchess Magdalena of Austria (1532-1590).​

7. Archduchess Catherine of Austria (1533-1572). m. Fredrick III, Elector of the Palatine [1525-1588].​

8. Archduchess Eleanor of Austria (1534-1594) m. King Edward VI of England (1531-1563)​

9. Archduchess Margaret of Austria (1536-1567).​

10. Archduke John (1538-1539).​

11. Archduchess Barbara of Austria (1539-1572) m. João Manuel, Prince of Portugal (1537-1544) (a) m. Guglielmo Gonzaga, Duke of Mantua [1538-1587) (b)​

12. King Ferdinand II of Hungary (1540-1590) m. Renata of Lorraine (1544-1602).​

13. Archduchess Ursula of Austria (1541-1543)​

14. Archduchess Helena of Austria (1543-1574).​

15. Archduchess Joanna of Austria (1547-1608). m. Alfonso II d'Este, Duke of Ferrara (1533-1597).​

Who is Henri Emanuele of Savoy's mom? Since the name would indicate either a French or English mother. If French, his dad was angling for Élisabeth's de Valois, who'd be too young, if English, Savoy seems rather low. Since Edward VI is born in 1531 I can only assume he's Anne Boleyn's son (with an earlier annulment), and a "legitimate" Elizabeth would likely be paired off with either Maximilian II, TTL Carlos II of Spain (OTL she was offered to both Felipe II and Ferdinand II of Austria before her dad died) or João Manuel of Portugal (another match considered for about 5-6 years). Some fresh Tudor blood would do wonders to muck out the Aviz genepool IMO

 

[Milites]

James V, King of Scots [1513-1564], King of Denmark and Norway [1534[1]-1564] (1512-1564) m: 1533 Dorothea of Denmark (b.1520)

I really don’t see either the burgher party or the nobility (Evangelical or Catholic) backing the King of Scots over either of Frederik’s children. It would be difficult for James to stake a claim on his wife’s behalf across the North Sea.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Henry VII m. 1505 Joanna of Naples

1) Edward b. 1506 m. Anne Boleyn (a) Jane Seymour (b)
2) Joanna b. 1507 m. John III of Portugal

 

[Awkwardvulture]

A rare War of the Roses idea from me, and even rarer it's a Ricardian Yorkist one after Richard wins at Bosworth.

King Richard III of England (b.1452, d.1502) m. Kunigunde of Austria, Queen of England (b.1465, d.1520) in 1486, had issue
1) Princess* Eleanor of York (b.1487, d.1502 (1) ) eng. King James IV of Scotland (b.1473, d.1530) (2)
2) Phillippa of York, Queen of Scotland (b.1489, d.1544) m. King James IV of Scotland (b.1473, d.1530) and had issue
3) Mary of York, Queen of France (b.1490, d.1520) m. King Charles IX of France (b.1492, d.1552) (3) and had issue
4) Edmund, Prince of Wales (b.1491, d.1546), later Edmund III of England m. Elizabeth of Denmark, Queen of England (b.1485, d.1555) had issue
5) Richard, Duke of York (b,1495, d.1547) m. Elizabeth Stafford, Duchess of York (b.1497, d.1558), no surviving issue
6) Roger, Duke of Somerset (b.1498, d.1549) m. Dorothy Howard, Duchess of Somerset (b.1509, d.1567), had issue
7) Margaret of York, Queen of Denmark (b.1501, d.1551) m. King Christian II of Denmark (b.1481, d.1559) had issue

*Yes I'm using Princess because Lady of England is stupid and I'm not pretending otherwise.

(1) Of delicate health, she died of influenza en route to marry James IV, just before her father died of a heart attack.
(2) As relations between England and Scotland are generally more cooperative, James doesn't invade and lives to a relatively old age.
(3) A surviving Charles Orlando, Mary marries him and dies of blood loss after giving birth to their fifth child, a long-awaited dauphin after four daughters.

 

[kasumigenx]

Eleanor of Aquitaine is not estranged with her husband in 1149
Louis VII m. Eleanor of Aquitaine d. 1153(a)

1a. Marie of France b. 1145 m. Geoffrey VI of Anjou

2a. Alix of France b. 1150

3a. Philip of France b. 1151

4a. Eleanor of France b. 1153



Constance of France m. Henry II of Champagne(a)

1a. Henry III of Champagne b. 1155

 

[King of Danes]

A rare War of the Roses idea from me, and even rarer it's a Ricardian Yorkist one after Richard wins at Bosworth.

King Richard III of England (b.1452, d.1502) m. Kunigunde of Austria, Queen of England (b.1465, d.1520) in 1486, had issue
1) Princess* Eleanor of York (b.1487, d.1502 (1) ) eng. King James IV of Scotland (b.1473, d.1530) (2)
2) Phillippa of York, Queen of Scotland (b.1489, d.1544) m. King James IV of Scotland (b.1473, d.1530) and had issue
3) Mary of York, Queen of France (b.1490, d.1520) m. King Charles IX of France (b.1492, d.1552) (3) and had issue
4) Edmund, Prince of Wales (b.1491, d.1546), later Edmund III of England m. Elizabeth of Denmark, Queen of England (b.1485, d.1555) had issue
5) Richard, Duke of York (b,1495, d.1547) m. Elizabeth Stafford, Duchess of York (b.1497, d.1558), no surviving issue
6) Roger, Duke of Somerset (b.1498, d.1549) m. Dorothy Howard, Duchess of Somerset (b.1509, d.1567), had issue
7) Margaret of York, Queen of Denmark (b.1501, d.1551) m. King Christian II of Denmark (b.1481, d.1559) had issue

*Yes I'm using Princess because Lady of England is stupid and I'm not pretending otherwise.

(1) Of delicate health, she died of influenza en route to marry James IV, just before her father died of a heart attack.
(2) As relations between England and Scotland are generally more cooperative, James doesn't invade and lives to a relatively old age.
(3) A surviving Charles Orlando, Mary marries him and dies of blood loss after giving birth to their fifth child, a long-awaited dauphin after four daughters.

Wild that you used the old thread hahah, but a cool idea I don’t think I’ve seen it before. A couple of notes/thoughts though

4) Edmund, Prince of Wales (b.1491, d.1546), later Edmund III of England m. Elizabeth of Denmark, Queen of England (b.1485, d.1555) had issue

7) Margaret of York, Queen of Denmark (b.1501, d.1551) m. King Christian II of Denmark (b.1481, d.1559) had issue

Not sure why they’d go for a double Danish match here (as fond as I am of the idea heh) when it would be more sensible for them to swap one of the matches for maybe a renewal of an Austrian match? Edmund could have Eleanor of Austria or Margaret could have Emperor Charles? The latter might be the more likely one

6) Roger, Duke of Somerset (b.1498, d.1549) m. Dorothy Howard, Duchess of Somerset (b.1509, d.1567), had issue

He deffo would not get Somerset in a Yorkist victory. It’s tainted by Beauforts. He’ll likely be Duke of Gloucester like his daddy was. Also, I’m not sure about the name. I know, they get their claim through a Roger Mortimer, but his father named none of his sons Roger. Maybe he could be Thomas, Duke of Gloucester? Named after one of Richard’s brothers and his friend Thomas Howard?

 

[Awkwardvulture]

Wild that you used the old thread hahah, but a cool idea I don’t think I’ve seen it before. A couple of notes/thoughts though


Not sure why they’d go for a double Danish match here (as fond as I am of the idea heh) when it would be more sensible for them to swap one of the matches for maybe a renewal of an Austrian match? Edmund could have Eleanor of Austria or Margaret could have Emperor Charles? The latter might be the more likely one

He deffo would not get Somerset in a Yorkist victory. It’s tainted by Beauforts. He’ll likely be Duke of Gloucester like his daddy was. Also, I’m not sure about the name. I know, they get their claim through a Roger Mortimer, but his father named none of his sons Roger. Maybe he could be Thomas, Duke of Gloucester? Named after one of Richard’s brothers and his friend Thomas Howard?

Oh, I didn't know there was a new one. Oh well I suppose.

Margaret for Charles would sure be interesting, and they're cousins once removed which helps with that.

Thank you, I forgot about that. Maybe Thomas, but I'm not sure

 

[Lalli]

A rare War of the Roses idea from me, and even rarer it's a Ricardian Yorkist one after Richard wins at Bosworth.

King Richard III of England (b.1452, d.1502) m. Kunigunde of Austria, Queen of England (b.1465, d.1520) in 1486, had issue
1) Princess* Eleanor of York (b.1487, d.1502 (1) ) eng. King James IV of Scotland (b.1473, d.1530) (2)
2) Phillippa of York, Queen of Scotland (b.1489, d.1544) m. King James IV of Scotland (b.1473, d.1530) and had issue
3) Mary of York, Queen of France (b.1490, d.1520) m. King Charles IX of France (b.1492, d.1552) (3) and had issue
4) Edmund, Prince of Wales (b.1491, d.1546), later Edmund III of England m. Elizabeth of Denmark, Queen of England (b.1485, d.1555) had issue
5) Richard, Duke of York (b,1495, d.1547) m. Elizabeth Stafford, Duchess of York (b.1497, d.1558), no surviving issue
6) Roger, Duke of Somerset (b.1498, d.1549) m. Dorothy Howard, Duchess of Somerset (b.1509, d.1567), had issue
7) Margaret of York, Queen of Denmark (b.1501, d.1551) m. King Christian II of Denmark (b.1481, d.1559) had issue

*Yes I'm using Princess because Lady of England is stupid and I'm not pretending otherwise.

(1) Of delicate health, she died of influenza en route to marry James IV, just before her father died of a heart attack.
(2) As relations between England and Scotland are generally more cooperative, James doesn't invade and lives to a relatively old age.
(3) A surviving Charles Orlando, Mary marries him and dies of blood loss after giving birth to their fifth child, a long-awaited dauphin after four daughters.

Small nitpick: Edmund would be Edmund I. Yes, there was two Anglo-Saxon Edmunds too but they are not taken on notice when post-conquest monarchs are numbered like for example there was king Edward I despite that there was few Edwards before the conquest.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

WI: Henry VIII died after Anne Boleyn was executed? [ @Kellan Sullivan @HortenseMancini @isabella @FalconHonour ]

Mary I, Queen of England m. Luis, Duke of Beja
1) Edward VI, King of England
2) John IV, King of Portugal
3) Katherine, Queen of France
4) Margaret, Queen of Spain
5) Mary, Holy Roman Empress
6) Edmund, Duke of York and Beja
7) Jasper, Duke of Guarda and Trancosco
8) Elizabeth, Queen of Poland
9) Beatrice, Queen of Scotland

Elizabeth, Marquess of Pembroke m. Robert Dudley, Earl of Leicester
1) Mary, Lady of England
2) Robert, Earl of Leicester & Marquess of Pembroke
3) Henry, cardinal
4) Anne, nun

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

WI: Henry VIII died after Anne Boleyn was executed? [ @Kellan Sullivan @HortenseMancini @isabella @FalconHonour ]

Mary I, Queen of England m. Luis, Duke of Beja
1) Edward VI, King of England
2) John IV, King of Portugal
3) Katherine, Queen of France
4) Margaret, Queen of Spain
5) Mary, Holy Roman Empress
6) Edmund, Duke of York and Beja
7) Jasper, Duke of Guarda and Trancosco
8) Elizabeth, Queen of Poland
9) Beatrice, Queen of Scotland

Elizabeth, Marquess of Pembroke m. Robert Dudley, Earl of Leicester
1) Mary, Lady of England
2) Robert, Earl of Leicester & Marquess of Pembroke
3) Henry, cardinal
4) Anne, nun

Mary would marry James V of Scots

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Mary would marry James V of Scots

James V was in France ready to marry Madeleine by then though

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

James V was in France ready to marry Madeleine by then though

but not yet married. Given that François didn't want her to marry and only reluctantly did so, I suspect if there's an alternative like Mary available, he'd push James towards her in the hopes of avoiding an imperial candidate marrying her instead.

 

[BlueFlowwer]

Mary would marry James V of Scots

James V was in France ready to marry Madeleine by then though

Me thinks that if James finds out that the next door Kingdom has a pretty available Queen with her own kingdom whom he can wed instead, he will be on the next boat back over the channel.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Me thinks that if James finds out that the next door Kingdom has a pretty available Queen with her own kingdom whom he can wed instead, he will be on the next boat back over the channel.

Even if her dad waged war against his and caused him to become king at age 1?

 

[ordinarylittleme]

WI: Henry VIII died after Anne Boleyn was executed? [ @Kellan Sullivan @HortenseMancini @isabella @FalconHonour ]

Mary I, Queen of England m. Luis, Duke of Beja
1) Edward VI, King of England
2) John IV, King of Portugal
3) Katherine, Queen of France
4) Margaret, Queen of Spain
5) Mary, Holy Roman Empress
6) Edmund, Duke of York and Beja
7) Jasper, Duke of Guarda and Trancosco
8) Elizabeth, Queen of Poland
9) Beatrice, Queen of Scotland

Elizabeth, Marquess of Pembroke m. Robert Dudley, Earl of Leicester
1) Mary, Lady of England
2) Robert, Earl of Leicester & Marquess of Pembroke
3) Henry, cardinal
4) Anne, nun

Rewritten:

Mary I, Queen of England m. James V, King of Scotland
1) James VI and I, King of England and Scotland
2) John, Duke of York and Albany
3) Katherine, Queen of France
4) Margaret, Queen of Spain
5) Mary, Holy Roman Empress
6) Edmund, Duke of Richmond and Ross
7) Jasper, Duke of Somerset and Gordon
8) Elizabeth, Queen of Poland
9) Joan, Queen of Portugal
10) Jacquetta, Duchess of Burgundy

Elizabeth, Marquess of Pembroke m. Robert Dudley, Earl of Leicester
1) Mary, Lady of England m. Robert Carey, Earl of Monmouth
2) Robert, Earl of Leicester & Marquess of Pembroke m. *Mary Grey
3) Henry, cardinal
4) Anne, nun
5) Margaret, Lady of England m. Thomas Howard, Earl of Suffolk


*ATL Jane Grey

 

[LoyalHistoryBuff]

Even if her dad waged war against his and caused him to become king at age 1?

Actually, James IV attacked England first while Henry VIII was in France, warring against France. If Henry VIII didn't attack France in the first place, James V wouldn't become king so young.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Actually, James IV attacked England first while Henry VIII was in France, warring against France. If Henry VIII didn't attack France in the first place, James V wouldn't become king so young.

Fair. Could be fun to imagine James V as son-in-law to Katherine of Aragon...

 

[BoleynBuff]

Fair. Could be fun to imagine James V as son-in-law to Katherine of Aragon...

You said the POD is Henry dying after Anne’s execution… meaning Katherine is dead as a doornail.