Shit, I forgot about him being married to his niece. That could swing things in his favor
List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage
- Thread starter Jonathan
- Start date
as OTL (more because I'm lazy than anything else), so Henry VIII still plays hokey-pokey with the succession, still has only one son, although whether he marries Anne of Cleves here is debatable.
well, I imagine James V might toss his hat in the ring, but whether that becomes anything more than a "titular" attempt would depend on the support (both in England and without) Mary can muster. James V could be dealing with problems in Denmark, with Sweden (I don't think the Vasas are just gonna go away), with Holstein (where I imagine the Oldenburgs have retreated) or any number of reasons that mean he can't take a swing in 1554. Or James might "wait", see what Mary does, in the hopes of being named as her heir (or one of his sons) due to childlessness.
Brabant
Duke Jan III of Brabant (1300-1355) >< Marie of Évreux (1303-1335)
Flanders
Count Louis I of Flanders (1304-1346) >< Countess Margaret II of Holland-Hainaut (1311-1356)
Burgundy
Duke Eudes IV of Burgundy (1295-1349) >< Countess Jeanne III of Burgundy (1308-1347)
Duke Jan III of Brabant (1300-1355) >< Marie of Évreux (1303-1335)
A1. Duchess Joanna of Brabant (1322-1406) >< a. Count William IV of Holland (1307-1345) b. Duke Jean IV of Brabant (1322-1375)
A2. Margaret of Brabant (1323-1368) >< Count Louis II of Flanders (1330-1384)
A3. Maria of Brabant (1325-1399) >< Duke Reginald III of Flanders (1333-1371)
A4. Jan of Brabant (1327-1336)
A5. Henry of Brabant (1329-1349)
A6. Godfried of Brabant (1331-1353)
Flanders
Count Louis I of Flanders (1304-1346) >< Countess Margaret II of Holland-Hainaut (1311-1356)
A1. Count Louis II of Flanders (1330-1384) >< Margaret of Brabant (1323-1368)
B1. Countess Margaret III of Flanders (1350-1405) >< Duke Philippe II of Burgundy (1348-1404)
Burgundy
Duke Eudes IV of Burgundy (1295-1349) >< Countess Jeanne III of Burgundy (1308-1347)
A1. Duke Philippe I of Burgundy (1323-1351) >< Alice of Forez (1330-1383)
B1. Jeanne of Burgundy (1346-1360)
B2. Duke Philippe II of Burgundy (1348-1404) >< Countess Margaret III of Flanders (1350-1405)
C1. Duke Eudes V of Burgundy (1371-1419) >< Anne of Luxembourg (1366-1432)
D1. Catherine of Burgundy (1391-1414)
D2. Marie of Burgundy (1393-1463) >< Duke Johann I of Gelre (1373-1448
D3. Margaret of Burgundy (1393-1442) >< a. Louis of France (1397-1415) b. Duke Arthur III of Brittany (1393-1458)
D4. King Philippe II of Burgundy (1396-1467) >< a. Michelle of France (1395-1422) b. Bonne of Artois (1396-1425) c. Isabel of Portugal (1397-1471)
E1c. Antoine of Burgundy (1430-1432)
E2c. Joseph of Burgundy (1432)
E3c. King Charles V of Burgundy (1433-1486)
D5. Isabelle of Burgundy (1398-1412)
D6. Jeanne of Burgundy (1399)
D7. Anne of Burgundy (1404-1432) >< King Magnus I of England (1389-1435)
D8. Agnes of Burgundy (1407-1476) >< Duke Charles I of Bourbon (1401-1456)
C2. Charles of Burgundy (1372-1373)
C3. Margaret of Burgundy (1374-1441) >< King Edmund III of England (1366-1400)
C4. Louis of Burgundy (1373-1378)
C5. Catherine of Burgundy (1378-1425) >< Duke Ulrich II of Swabia (1371-1411)
C6. Jeanne of Burgundy (1379-1399)
C7. Count Antoine of Rethel (1384-1416) >< a. Jeanne of Saint-Pol (1386-1407) b. Elisabeth of Meissen (1390-1451)
D1a. Count Philippe II of Rethel (1406-1427)
D2a. Count Waléran of Rethel (1407-1430)
C8. Marie of Burgundy (1386-1428) >< Duke Amédée VIII of Savoy (1383-1451)
C9. Count Philippe II of Nevers (1389-1414) >< a. Isabelle de Coucy (1386-1411) b. Bonne of Artois (1396-1425)
D1a. Count Philippe III of Nevers (1410-1416)
D2a. Countess Margaret of Nevers (1411-1461) >< Count Engelbert I of Nevers (1411-1465)
D3b. Count Guillaume VI of Nevers (1414-1449) >< Jacqueline d'Ailly (1420-1470)
E1. Countess Elisabeth of Nevers (1439-1455)
E2. Count Philippe IV of Nevers (1446-1452)
A2. Jeanne of Burgundy (1327-1395) >< Duke Ulrich IV of Carinthia (1325-1353)
King Charles V of Burgundy (1433-1486) >< a. Catherine of France (1428-1446) b. Duchess Margaret of Lorraine (1430-1482) c. Margaret of York (1446-1503)A1. Marie of Burgundy (1457-1482) >< Emperor Maximilian of Germany (1459-1519)
A2. King Philippe III of Burgundy (1459-1528) >< Adelaide of Jülich (1460-1538)
B1. Adelaide of Burgundy (1479)
B2. Charles of Burgundy (1480-1508) >< Margaret of Nuremberg (1481-1545)
C1. Philippe of Burgundy (1503-1508)
C2. Margaret of Burgundy (1505-1517)
C3. Adelaide of Burgundy (1507-1564)
B3. Philippe of Burgundy (1482-1496)
B4. King Eudes I of Burgundy (1487-1534) >< Elisabeth of Württemberg (1490-1527)
C1. Elisabeth of Burgundy (1510-1540) >< Count Hugues X of La Marche (1507-1572)
C2. Philippe of Burgundy (1512-1526)
C3. Eudes of Burgundy (1513-1515)
C4. Adelaide of Burgundy (1518-1525)
C5. Marie of Burgundy (1521-1530)
C6. King Henri VI of Burgundy (1525-1551)
C7. King Philippe IV of Burgundy (1527-1598) >< a. Maria of Portugal (1527-1545) b. Mary of England (1516-1558) c. Elisabeth of France (1545-1568) d. Anne of Provence (1549-1580)
D1a. Charles of Burgundy (1545-1568)
D2c. Isabelle of Burgundy (1566-1633) >< King João IV of Portugal (1562-1638)
D3c. Catherine of Burgundy (1567-1597) >< Duke Charles IV of Savoy (1562-1630)
D4d. Eudes of Burgundy (1571-1578)
D5d. Louis of Burgundy (1573-1575)
D6d. Henri of Burgundy (1575-1582)
D7d. King Philippe V of Burgundy (1578-1621)
D8d. Marie of Burgundy (1580-1583)
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- I assume that William II succeeded Sigismund as Emperor of Germany?
- Judging by how Philip IV of Burgundy is a analog to Philip II of Spain, I'm guessing that a succession war will occur in Burgundy during the early 18th century?
- What are the Tudors known for in this timeline if they are not Kings of England?
1. Yes.
2. Not necessarily - Given there are more options for the Burgundies in relation to marriages than the Spanish Habsburgs did OTL, it's less likely that a Charles II-type monarch will come up.
3. Minor Welsh nobility.
List of Monarchs of the United Kingdom
Queen Victoria I (34 yrs): June 20, 1837 - February 29, 1872 (Assassinated)
King Edward VII (38 yrs): February 29, 1872 - May 6, 1910 (Died In Office)
As Regent, Prince Arthur (2 yrs): May 6, 1910 - June 23, 1912
King Edward VIII (59 yrs): June 23, 1912 - May 28, 1972 (Died In Office)
Queen Elizabeth II (4 yrs): May 28, 1972 - June 12, 1976 (Assassinated)
King George V (21 yrs): June 12, 1976 - August 31, 1997 (Died In Office)
As Regent, Princess Diana (2 yrs): August 31, 1997 - June 21, 2000
King William V (13 yrs): June 21, 2000 - March 3, 2014 (Assassinated)
King Edward IX (5 yrs): March 3, 2014 - August 14, 2019 (Abdicated)
Queen Elizabeth III (3 yrs): August 14, 2019 - April 25, 2023 (Assassinated)
Queen Victoria II (0 yrs): April 25, 2023 - present
Queen Victoria I (34 yrs): June 20, 1837 - February 29, 1872 (Assassinated)
King Edward VII (38 yrs): February 29, 1872 - May 6, 1910 (Died In Office)
As Regent, Prince Arthur (2 yrs): May 6, 1910 - June 23, 1912
King Edward VIII (59 yrs): June 23, 1912 - May 28, 1972 (Died In Office)
Queen Elizabeth II (4 yrs): May 28, 1972 - June 12, 1976 (Assassinated)
King George V (21 yrs): June 12, 1976 - August 31, 1997 (Died In Office)
As Regent, Princess Diana (2 yrs): August 31, 1997 - June 21, 2000
King William V (13 yrs): June 21, 2000 - March 3, 2014 (Assassinated)
King Edward IX (5 yrs): March 3, 2014 - August 14, 2019 (Abdicated)
Queen Elizabeth III (3 yrs): August 14, 2019 - April 25, 2023 (Assassinated)
Queen Victoria II (0 yrs): April 25, 2023 - present
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Question: What if Prince Charles (now King Charles III) had died when he was "run over" by that bus in 1969 and then Queen Elizabeth II and her husband Prince Philip were both assassinated a year later in April 1970 in the Lithgow Plot while in Australia? Obviously Prince Andrew is next in line due to the rules of succession at the time, however, he was only 10 years old so a regent would have to be named until he became of age to take the Crown. Who would be chosen to serve as regent for the next 8 years?
I haven't fully thought this through yet, but here are two trees that I sort of imagine taking place in the same world:
Francis II of Brittany betroths Anne to Phillip the Handsome in 1487 and sends her to Burgundy before he dies in the Mad War.
Anne of Brittany (1477-1514) m. 1493 Philip, Duke of Burgundy (1478-1527)
1) Stillborn daughter (1494)
2) Miscarriage (1496)
3) Maximillian (1497-1501)
4) Mary 1498-1499)
5) Stillborn daughter (1498)
6) Francis, Duke of Brittany and Burgundy (b.1500)
7) Miscarriage (1501)
8) Margaret (1503)
9) Anne (1504-1506)
10) Stillborn son (1507)
11) Miscarriage (1508)
12) Phillippa (1510)
Meanwhile in England, Elizabeth of York dies in Childbirth with Princess Margaret
Henry VII (1457-1509) m. 1485 Elizabeth of York (1466-1489) (a) m. 1494 Juana of Castile (b)
1a) Arthur, Prince of Wales (b.1486)
2a) Margaret (b,1489)
3b) Elizabeth (b.1496)
4b) Henry, Duke of Richmond (b.1498)
5b) Miscarriage (1499)
6b) Edmund, Duke of Somerset (b. 1500)
7b) Mary (1502-1504)
8b) Katherine (b.1505)
Francis II of Brittany betroths Anne to Phillip the Handsome in 1487 and sends her to Burgundy before he dies in the Mad War.
Anne of Brittany (1477-1514) m. 1493 Philip, Duke of Burgundy (1478-1527)
1) Stillborn daughter (1494)
2) Miscarriage (1496)
3) Maximillian (1497-1501)
4) Mary 1498-1499)
5) Stillborn daughter (1498)
6) Francis, Duke of Brittany and Burgundy (b.1500)
7) Miscarriage (1501)
8) Margaret (1503)
9) Anne (1504-1506)
10) Stillborn son (1507)
11) Miscarriage (1508)
12) Phillippa (1510)
Meanwhile in England, Elizabeth of York dies in Childbirth with Princess Margaret
Henry VII (1457-1509) m. 1485 Elizabeth of York (1466-1489) (a) m. 1494 Juana of Castile (b)
1a) Arthur, Prince of Wales (b.1486)
2a) Margaret (b,1489)
3b) Elizabeth (b.1496)
4b) Henry, Duke of Richmond (b.1498)
5b) Miscarriage (1499)
6b) Edmund, Duke of Somerset (b. 1500)
7b) Mary (1502-1504)
8b) Katherine (b.1505)
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An excellent thought, but probably better in the 'Misc Post 1900' chat
Ah okay!👍 Also just realized since I killed off George V early and George VI never took the throne then Charles would take the name George V instead of George VII.🤦An excellent thought, but probably better in the 'Misc Post 1900' chat
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Five pages left until this thread closes.
Might be time to start a new thread soon because of that.
Might be time to start a new thread soon because of that.
I was wondering who Isabella and Ferdinand's other children would marry in this world... I suspect it would look something like this:
Isabella of Castile (1451-1504) m.1469 Ferdinand of Aragon (1452-1516)
- Isabella (1470-1498) m.1490 Afonso, Prince of Portugal (1475-1491) m.1497 Manuel I of Portugal
- Miscarried son (1475)
- Juan (1478-1497) m. Margaret of Burgundy (b.1480) [1]
- Juana (b.1479) m. 1494 Henry VII of England [2]
- Maria (b.1482) m.1500 Manuel I of Portugal [3]
- Catalina (b.1485) m. 1501 Phillibert II of Savoy [4]
[2] The way I see this working is: The Ambassadors are there to arrange Catherine's match to Arthur as OTL, but then Elizabeth dies in childbirth and the English court is plunged into mourning for the better part of a year, stalling negotiations. When they are reopened in 1490/91, Henry needs a new wife with Lancastrian heritage, and the eleven-year-old Juana is thought to be suitable, so Henry and Juana's names are exchanged for Arthur and Katherine's on the marriage contract....
[3] Yes, Portugal goes as OTL, because I'm too lazy to consider butterflies here too...
[4] I was going to marry her to Charles III, but I wasn't sure her parents would be willing to wait until 1504 for her marriage and Phillibert's first wife died in 1499, so he slotted in perfectly ahead of his younger half-brother.
Done - but feel free to finish this thread first!
List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage II
Since we're only five pages from the end of the first thread, I thought I'd take the initiative to post another thread where people can post their thoughts/ideas on Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage.... Feel free to finish up the first thread first, though!
www.alternatehistory.com
OMG I wanna read this so badly.I was wondering who Isabella and Ferdinand's other children would marry in this world... I suspect it would look something like this:
Isabella of Castile (1451-1504) m.1469 Ferdinand of Aragon (1452-1516)
[1] I'm not sure the Catholic Monarchs would still want the Austrian match, if it's not part of a double match, but I couldn't think of anyone else for Juan. Happy to change it if anyone has any better ideas.
- Isabella (1470-1498) m.1490 Afonso, Prince of Portugal (1475-1491) m.1497 Manuel I of Portugal
- Miscarried son (1475)
- Juan (1478-1497) m. Margaret of Burgundy (b.1480) [1]
- Juana (b.1479) m. 1494 Henry VII of England [2]
- Maria (b.1482) m.1500 Manuel I of Portugal [3]
- Catalina (b.1485) m. 1501 Phillibert II of Savoy [4]
[2] The way I see this working is: The Ambassadors are there to arrange Catherine's match to Arthur as OTL, but then Elizabeth dies in childbirth and the English court is plunged into mourning for the better part of a year, stalling negotiations. When they are reopened in 1490/91, Henry needs a new wife with Lancastrian heritage, and the eleven-year-old Juana is thought to be suitable, so Henry and Juana's names are exchanged for Arthur and Katherine's on the marriage contract....
[3] Yes, Portugal goes as OTL, because I'm too lazy to consider butterflies here too...
[4] I was going to marry her to Charles III, but I wasn't sure her parents would be willing to wait until 1504 for her marriage and Phillibert's first wife died in 1499, so he slotted in perfectly ahead of his younger half-brother.