List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage

@Kellan Sullivan @alexmilman Ok, fine then, perhaps we see Maria marrying, say, an Archduke of Austria like her aunt Alexandra Pavlovna, or the future Grand Duke Leopold of Baden once he officially becomes heir to his half-brother. Then maybe young Elizabeth still marries Franz of Saxe-Coburg; after all, his sister was good enough to marry into the Romanov family.
 
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Ok, fine then, perhaps we see Maria marrying, say, an Archduke of Austria like her aunt Alexandra Pavlovna, or the future Grand Duke Leopold of Baden once he officially becomes heir to his half-brother. Then maybe young Elizabeth still marries Franz of Saxe-Coburg; after all, his sister was good enough to marry into the Romanov family.
A Habsburg match is unlikely, it was proposed three times after Alexandra Pavlovna died (once between Ekaterina Pavlovna and Franz II; once between Anna Pavlovna and Goodinand; and lastly between Olga Nikolaïevna and Archduke Stephan of Austria), and in all three cases religion was an issue (not to mention Alexandra's appalling treatment by Franz II's second wife).

Leopold of Baden is an interesting possibility although again, IDK how likely it is. Leopold and Franz though, would BOTH be tainted by their kinship to Maria/Elizabeth though.

Hell, a match between Maria and the duke of Clarence might be likelier. OTL, there was talk of a marriage between the widowed Ekaterina Pavlovna and George IV. Katya found George disgusting, George made a few choice remarks about Katya. The match went nowhere. The British government was concerned that Alexander I would try to marry one of his brothers, Nikolai or Mikhail to the Princess Charlotte and refused to issue passports for them to accompany Alexander-Katya to London. Clarence was LOOKING for a wife after dumping Mrs. Jordan, and while he WOULDN'T be king of England, he would succeed to the throne of Hannover in due course. No one could know the duchess of York (or Queen Caroline) would predecease their hubbies, or that hubbies WOULDN'T remarry.

@isabella
 
After all, his sister was good enough to marry into the Romanov family
No one in the Romanovs particularly cared for Anna after she'd "abandoned" Konstantin and refused to return. The only reason Alexander I sat on the divorce as long as he did was because his mamushka told him to. Maria Feodorovna had the horror of Konstantin contracting some otherwise unsuitable marriage (not sure why she finally changed her mind, Anna's bastards might have had something to do with it). Then, after Anna gave birth to not one, but TWO bastard kids, AND rebuffed an attempt by Konstantin at reconciliation, she was "written off" by the remaining Romanovs (even Elizabeth Alexeïevna who had been her best friend).

The Coburgs GENUINELY didn't have a good stock with the Romanovs (even when Queen Victoria's son came a courting, there were those in Russia who whispered unfavourably about it).
 
Scenario: Elizabeth Tudor (b.1492) survives her childhood illness and marries Louis XII in 1514. Hijinks ensue.

Family Tree of Elizabeth Tudor to about 1600

Elizabeth Tudor, Princess of England (b.1492: d.1549) m. Louis XII, King of France (b.1462: d.1515) (a), Antoine, Duke of Lorraine (b.1489: d.1544) (b)

1b) Marguerite de Lorraine (b.1517: d.1575) m. Alessandro de Medici, Duke of Florence (b.1510: d.1537) (a)​
1b) Piero de Medici, Duke of Florence (b.1535: d.1560) m. Eleanora d'Este (b.1537: d.1581) (a)​
1a) Ercole de Medici, Duke of Florence (b.1554: d.1579) m. Eleanora d'Este (b.1561: d.1637) (a)​
2a) Stillborn Son (c.1556)​
2b) Guila de Medici (b.1537: d.1603) m. Frederick of Brunswick-Luneburg (b.1532: d.1553) (a), Christopher, Count of Oldenburg (b.1504: d.1566) (b)​
1a) Elizabeth of Brunswick-Luneburg (b.1552: d.1581) m. John II, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg (b.1545: d.1622) (a)​
1a) Dorothea of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg (b.1570: d.1575)​
2a) Stillborn Son (c.1573)​
3a) Julia Marie of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg (b.1574: d.1649) m. Henri IV, King of France (b.1553: d.1610) (a)​
1a) Louis XIII, King of France (b.1600: d.1621)​
2a) Charles X, King of France (b.1601)​
3a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1603)​
4a) Nicholas, Duke of Anjou (b.1604)​
5a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1606)​
6a) Elisabeth, Princess of France (b.1609)​
4a) Miscarriage (c.1576)​
5a) Margaret Eleanore of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg (b.1578: d.1606) m. Francois de Bourbon, Prince of Conti (b.1558: d.1614) (a)​
1a) Stillborn Son (c.1604)​
2b) Stillborn Daughter (c.1518)​
3b) Henri II, Duke of Lorraine (b.1520: d.1562) m. Margaret of Austria (b.1522: d.1586) (a)​
1b) Francois I Augustus, Duke of Lorraine (b.1541: d.1575) m. Sophia of Brunswick-Luneburg (b.1541: d.1631) (a)​
1a) Henri III, Duke of Lorraine (b.1560: d.1589)​
2a) Antoine II, Duke of Lorraine (b.1563: d.1609) m. Antoinette d'Orleans (b.1572: d.1618) (a)​
1a) Stillborn Son (c.1589)​
2a) Stillborn Son (c.1590)​
3a) Antoine III, Duke of Orleans (b.1594: d.1611)​
4a) Stillborn Son (c.1596)​
5a) Henri IV, Duke of Lorraine (b.1598)​
3a) Stillborn Son (c.1565)​
4a) Marie of Lorraine (b.1567: d.1601) m. Charles, Count of Soissons (b.1566: d.1612) (a)​
1a) Louis, Count of Soissons (b.1590)​
2a) Guy de Bourbon (b.1594)​
5a) Robert, Count of Lambesc (b.1569: d.1670) m. Catherine de l'Isle de Marivaux (c.1570: d.1608) (a), Guilia Marie della Roverre (b.1590: d.1651) (b)​
1b) Benjamin de Lorraine de Lambesc (b.1610)​
2b) Marie de Lorraine de Lambesc (b.1615)​
3b) Stillborn Son (c.1616)​
4b) Claude de Lorraine de Lambesc (b.1620)​
5b) Stillborn Daughter (c.1622)​
6a) Eleanore of Lorraine (b.1571: d.1571)​
7a) Renee of Lorraine (b.1573: d.1597)​
8a) Stillborn Son (c.1574)​
9a) Sophia of Lorraine (b.1575: d.1628) m. Charles I, King of Scotland (b.1567: d.1599) (a)​
- had surviving issue​
2b) Stillborn Daughter (c.1543)​
3b) Charles of Lorraine (b.1546: d.1546)​
4b) Joanna of Lorraine (b.1548: d.1633) m. Francois de Bonne, Duke of Lesdiguieres (b.1543: d.1626) (a)​
1a) Robert de Bonne, Duke of Lesdiguieres (b.1566)​
2a) Jacques de Bonne (b.1569)​
3a) Miscarriage (c.1570)​
4a) Marie de Bonne (b.1573)​
5a) Henri de Bonne (b.1575)​
6a) Julianne de Bonne (b.1576)​
7a) Marguerite de Bonne (b.1577)​
8a) Stillborn Son (c.1578)​
9a) Francois de Bonne (b.1580)​
5b) Stillborn Son (c.1550)​
4b) Charles, Count of Vaudemont (b.1522: d.1546) m. Juana de Toledo (c.1520: d.1582) (a)​
1a) Stillborn Son (c.1539)​
2a) Martin, Count of Vaudemont (b.1541: d.1592) m. Mary I, Queen of Scotland (b.1542: d.1591) (a)​
1a) James, Duke of Rothesay (b.1563: d.1572)​
2a) Marie de Lorraine, Princess of Scotland (b.1565: d.1610) m. Maximilian I, Elector of Bavaria (b.1570: d.1602) (a)​
1a) Stillborn Son (c.1590)​
2a) Albert VI, Elector of Bavaria (b.1596)​
3a) Charles I, King of Scotland (b.1567: d.1599) m. Christine of Hesse-Darmstadt (b.1578: d.1596) (a), Sophia of Lorraine (b.1575: d.1628) (b)​
1b) Alexander I & IV, King of England, Ireland and Scotland (b.1598)​
2b) Antoine of Lorraine, Duke of Albany and York (b.1599)​
4a) Stillborn Son (c.1568)​
5a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1569)​
3a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1542)​
4a) Isabel of Lorraine (b.1543: d.1543)​
5a) Francois of Lorraine (b.1545: d.1545)​
5b) Stillborn Daughter (c.1523)​
6b) Philippa of Lorraine (b.1524: d.1525)​
7b) Stillborn Son (c.1525)​
8b) Elisabeth of Lorraine (b.1527: d.1552) m. Francois de Montmorency, Duke of Montmorency (b.1530: d.1579) (a)​
1a) Anne de Montmorency, Duke of Montmorency (b.1550: d.1584)​
2a) Marie de Montmorency (b.1552: d.1555)​
9b) Francois, Count of Lambesc (b.1530: d.1561)​
10b) Stillborn Son (c.1531)​
11b) Marie of Lorraine (b.1534: d.1534)​
Points about the family:
  • The match between Marguerite of Lorraine (b.1517) and Alessandro de Medici obviously results in a slightly longer line that branch of de Medicis, ending in the male line in 1579 with the murder of Ercole de Medici at the hands of his bride's lover.
  • Guila de Medici would go down in history as one of the most ambitious women in Europe's history. Convinced that, had her cousin Edward VI of England lived she would have married him (an idea based off one meeting with an ambassador in 1552 where the match was discussed casually in order to obtain a loan from Florence to England, despite Edward's betrothal to Elisabeth de Valois at the time), she found herself unhappily married to a younger son of a German Prince, partially mostly to remove her the matchmaking game after she attempted to seduce who she thought was her brother-in-law, the Duke of Ferrara, but was in actuality a member of his entourage, and partially because the Duke of Lorraine's son had become betrothed to the youngest daughter of the family and Piero de Medici, a man interested in maintaining that family bond, thought it smart to have his sister within that mix. Thus, she married the second son of a German Duke, was left a young widow with an infant daughter within a year of the wedding at 16 years old, and promptly married the Count of Oldenburg without her father's consent. It's likely her first pregnancy had left her infertile, as she produced no children by her second husband nor any lovers. Through her second husband, she managed to have her daughter meet and marry the youngest son of the King of Denmark, and after her death in 1581 of pneumonia, was allowed custody of her two granddaughters, bringing them to France into the household of Lorraine, where she positioned them well, successfully pitching her eldest granddaughter to the King of France in 1599, and her younger to the Prince of Conti.
  • While she had been against it, Elizabeth Tudor grew to have affection for her son's wife, the bastard daughter of the Holy Roman Emperor. However, she had wanted him to marry the younger Princess of France, Marguerite. However, she would have been very happy to see her great-granddaughter become Queen of Scotland, and even happier to see her great-great-grandson ascend to three thrones as King of England, Ireland and Scotland. The Queen of Scot's elder sister, Renee of Lorraine, had been considered for Henri IV of France as his second wife until late 1597, when he spurned her due to her apparent physical frailty, which made the likelihood of children low. Just as well, as the poor girl died during the winter of that year, and an autopsy found she had a cancer of the lungs.
  • The marriage of the Count of Vaudemont and Juana of Toledo was a love-match, against both families direct wishes but just solid enough that neither threw fits over it. It was, however, incredibly successful in one regard, as the fruit of that union married into a crown. Martin de Lorraine, Count of Vaudemont managed to woo the Queen of Scots in 1561, as part of her entourage back to Scotland. Tall, willowy and a poet by nature, the two would have a decade of good love before he ultimately turned on her. The souring was political, with Vaudemont converting to Protestantism in 1568, demanding her conversion and, in 1571, after she attempted to lead a rebellion against him, placing her under house arrest. The official reason given was that the rebellion was actually an attempt at forcing the Scottish people to convert to Catholicism, and with the Scottish nobles against her and an escape plan in 1572 failing, Mary was forced to abdicate for her second son Charles in early 1573, having lost her eldest to smallpox before the new year. Vaudemont made it his mission to maintain the order he had created, marrying his son to a Protestant girl in 1591 (ultimately a failure as she died having produced no heirs on his death and the King married a Catholic cousin in 1597) and gaining permission for his daughter to retain her Protestant religion when she married into the Catholic dynasty of Bavaria (again, a failure, as she converted by herself following his death).
  • The Elector of Bavaria Joanna of Scotland married was the result of a match between the Duke of Bavaria and Joanna of Austria in 1565. He was one of three surviving sons of the match.
  • The murder of Anne de Montmorency in 1584 left the line of Elizabeth Tudor's youngest daughter done only two generations in. Elisabeth of Lorraine, a sickly girl, died of childbed fever for a daughter that herself died in childhood. Her elder son never married, although he had become engaged to the widowed Duchess of Lorraine earlier that year (that match most likely wouldn't have produced children, but she was very wealthy and the man in question was extremely in debt).
 
Influenced by a conversation with @Kellan Sullivan , a timeline where Louis, Duke of Burgundy and his wife Marie Adélaide survive.

Louis XV of France (b.1682: d.1747) m Marie Adélaide of Savoy (b.1685: d.1750)

Issue:

Louis of France, Duke of Brittany (b.1704:d.1705)

Louis of France, Duke of Brittany (b.1707: d.1712)

Louis XVI of France (b.1710)

Louis, Duke of Anjou (b.1713)

Maria Theresa of France (b.1715)

Philippe, Duke of Berry (b.1717)

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In such a timeline, I'm thinking that once Louis, Duke of Burgundy ascends the throne, James Francis Edward Stuart would get much more support for his attempts to take the throne of Britain, and thus he ascends the throne either through a coup in 1714, or through a successful 15'. Consequently, he's married to Marie Anne of Bourbon, daughter of the Prince of Conde:

James III of Great Britain and Ireland (b.1688: d.1749) m Marie Anne of Bourbone-Condé (b.1697: d.1757)

Issue:

James IV of Great Britain and Ireland (b.1715)

Mary, Princess Royal (b.1716)

Charles, Duke of York and Albany (b.1719)

Henry Louis, Duke of Gloucester and Ross (b.1722)

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That's what I'#ve got so far, curious for your thoughts.
 
Posting also in this thread the updates version + notes of my scenario of Europe with a continuing Yorkist England from here

Edward IV, King of England (1442–1486) married Elizabeth Woodville (1437-1492) in 1464
  1. Elizabeth of York (b.1466) married Maximilian I, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1459) in 1483
    1. See under Maximilian for issue
  2. Mary of York (1467-1482)
  3. Cecily of York (b.1469) married James IV, King of Scotland (b.1473) in 1484
    1. Margaret of Scotland (b.1485)
    2. James, Duke of Rothesay (1487-1488)
    3. Elizabeth (b.1489)
    4. James V, King of Scotland (b.1492)
    5. Alexander (b. 1494)
  4. Edward V of England (b.1470) married Anne, Duchess of Brittany (b.1477) in 1490
    1. Edward, Prince of Wales (1492-1497)
    2. Richard III, King of England (b.1494)
    3. Elizabeth (1497-1500)
    4. Anne Isabelle (1500)
    5. Francis III, Duke of Brittany (b.1502)
    6. Katherine (b. 1505)
  5. Margaret of York (1472-1472)
  6. Richard, Duke of York and Norfolk (b.1473) married a) Anne de Mowbray, Countess of Norfolk (1472-1493) in 1478
    1. Edward, Duke of York and Norfolk (b.1488)
    2. Elizabeth of York (b.1490)
    3. Anne of York (b.1493)
  7. Anne of York (b.1475) married Philip, Duke of Burgundy (b.1478) in 1493
    1. See under Philip for issue
  8. George, Duke of Bedford (1477-1479)
  9. Catherine of York (b.1479) married Juan, Prince of Asturias (1478-1497) in 1494
  10. Bridget of York (b.1480) nun

Maximilian I, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1459) married a) Mary, Duchess of Burgundy (1457-1482) in 1477 b) Elizabeth of York (b.1466-1492) in 1482 c) Bianca Maria Sforza (b.1472) in 1494

1a) Philip of Burgundy (1478-1500), Duke of Burgundy married Anne of York (b. 1475) in 1493
1) Mary II, Duchess of Burgundy (b. 1495) married Antoine, Duke of Lorraine and Burgundy (b. 1489) in 1507*
2) miscarriage (1498)
3) Charles (1499-1500)
2a) Margaret of Burgundy (1480-1510), Queen of France married Charles VIII, King of France (1470-1498) in 1492
1) Anne Marie of France (1495-1506)
2) Louis XII, King of France (1497-1507)
3a) Francis (1481)
4b) stillborn son (1485)
5b) Eleanor (b.1487), Queen of Hungary and Bohemia married Vladislaus II Jagiellon, King of Bohemia and Hungary (b.1456) in 1502
5b) Ernest II, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1490)
6b) Elizabeth (b.1492), Queen of Poland married Sigismund I the Old, King of Poland (b.1467) in 1510
8c) Bianca (b.1495) married James V of Scotland ?
9c) Beatrice (b. 1497) married Richard III of England ?
10c) Isabella (b.1498) married Christian II of Denmark ?
11c) Frederick (1502-1508)
12c) miscarriage (1504)
13c) Maximilian II, Duke of Milan (b.1507) married Isabella Beatrice Sforza, Duchess of Milan and Bari (b.1515)**


Ferdinand II, King of Aragon (1452-1518) married Isabella I, Queen of Castile (1451-1506) in 1469
  1. Isabella (1470-1505), Princess of Portugal married Alfonso, Prince of Portugal (1475-1491) in 1490
  2. miscarried son (1475)
  3. Juan, Prince of Asturias and Girona (1478-1497) married Catherine of York (b. 1479) in 1494
    1. Isabella (1496-1497)
    2. Juana (1497)
  4. Juana I, Queen of Castile and Aragon (b.1479) married Manuel I, King of Portugal (b.1469) in 1496
    1. Juan III, King of Spain (b.1497) married Madeleine, Queen of Navarre (b.1494) in 1511
    2. Isabella (b. 1498) married Richard III, King of England ?
    3. stillborn daughter
    4. Ferdinand, Duke of Beja (b.1502) married Guiomar Coutinho, Duchess of Guarda (b. 1510)
    5. Alfonso (b.1505)
    6. Luis (1506-1507)
    7. Beatrice (b.1508)
    8. Maria (1509-1513)
    9. Catalina (1511-1518)
    10. Enrique (b.1512), cardinal
    11. Eduardo, Duke of Guimarães (b.1515) married Isabella of Braganza (b.1514)
  5. Maria (b.1482) married Louis XIII, King of France (b.1462) in 1507
  6. Beatrice (1482)
  7. Catalina (b.1485) married Ferdinand III, King of Naples (b.1488) in 1505
Philibert I, Duke of Savoy (1480-1508) married Yolande Louise of Savoy (1487-1507)
  1. Charles III, Duke of Savoy (b. 1503)
  2. Bianca (b. 1505)
  3. miscarriage 1506
  4. Philip (b. 1507)


notes
*matches who bring an union between Burgundy and Lorraine are something who I really like
**Isabella Beatrice Sforza is the daughter and only child of Ercole Massimiliano Sforza (aka Maximilian I of Milan, eldest son of Ludovico Sforza "il Moro" and Beatrice d'Este) and of his wife and cousin Bona Sforza (daughter of Gian Galeazzo Sforza and Isabella of Aragon-Naples). Maximilian's younger brother Francesco (OTL Francis II) decided who he had no intention to make Bona and Isabella his enemies contesting his niece's claim and instead supported her


Already established matches to be add and other things

  • Henry Tudor, Earl of Richmond will marry Katherine Herbert (I do not know how many children they will have) and their eldest son (Edmund?/Jasper?/Henry?/William?/Owen?/Arthur?) will marry either Elizabeth or Anne of York
  • Edward of Clarence, Earl of Warwick will die young, while Margaret of Clarence will be married soon after to Edward of Middleham and their son and only surviving child, Richard, Duke of Gloucester (also Earl of Warwick and Earl of Salisbury) will marry Elizabeth or Anne of York, unless Anne Isabelle of England is still available for him
  • Louis, Duke of Orleans will become King Louis XIII of France and will remarry before becoming King to Charlotte of Naples with a surviving son and daughter
  • Gaston de Foix, Viscount of Narbonne, his sister Germaine de Foix, Francis, Duke of Angouleme and his sister Marguerite d‘Angouleme will be all wards of the future Louis XIII after the deaths of their fathers.
  • Pierre, Duke of Bourbon will live longer and his daughter Suzanne will marry Alencon
  • Catherine of Navarre and Jean d’Albret will have their OTL children
  • Frederick of Aragon will became King of Naples and will have his OTL children
  • John Stewart, Duke of Albany will likely have surviving children (either by Anne or he will remarry to Madeleine after Anne’s early death)
for France: the Duke d’Orleans will remarry to Charlotte of Naples, they will have a surviving son and daughter, she will die in 1506 (like OTL) in childbirth and Louis XIII will remarry again in 1507 to Maria of Aragon (Catalina had married Ferdinand III of Naples in 1505).
Germaine of Foix will marry Francis, Duke of Angoulême in a double match with Gaston, Viscount of Narbonne and Marguerite of Angouleme while Suzanne, Duchess of Bourbon will marry Charles, Duke d’Alençon and Anne of Foix-Candale will marry Francis II, Duke of Longueville. The Bourbon-Montpensier line will die as both Louis and Charles will die childless, while the Angouleme, Narbonne, Alençon and Longueville lines will survive...
I still do not know if the successor of Louis XIII will be the son of Charlotte or that boy will die young and Louis’ successor will be born from his ATL third wedding...

Edward of Warwick was mostly a victim of the circumstances (aka I needed Richard of Gloucester feeling safer and giving him the whole Warwick inheritance was the best way to get it so I killed off Edward of Warwick and married Margaret to her double first cousin)

I do not have any idea about eventual remarriages for Richard of York, Catherine of York and Juana of Naples right now...
 
A little something I started pondering ...

George I of Great Britain, Elector of Hanover, b. 1660, r. 1714 to 1727, m. Sophia Dorothea of Celle
1) George Augustus, b. 1683, d. 1706, m. Hedwig Sophia of Sweden (i)​
a) Charles Augustus, b. 1705, d. 1707 (ii)​
2) Sophia I of Great Britain, Queen Consort of Prussia, b. 1687, r. 1727 to 1757, m. Frederick William, King of Prussia, Duke of Cambridge (iii)​
a) Frederick of Prussia, b. 1712, d. 1720 (iv)​
b) William IV of Great Britain, King of Prussia, b. 1722, r. 1757 to 1758, m. Therese of Brunswick Wolfenbuttel (v)​
1) William Augustus of Wales, b. 1744, d. 1754​
2) Henry IX of Great Britain, King of Prussia, b. 1747, r. 1757 to 1767​
3) Sophia II of Great Britain, b. 1751, r. 1767 to 1820, m. William, Prince of Orange​
a) William, Prince of Wales, b. 1772, d. 1793 (vi)​
c) Frederick, Duke of York and Albany, b. 1726, d. 1802, Regent of Britain and Prussia, 1757 to 1765, King of Prussia in his own right 1767 to 1802​
d) Ferdinand, Duke of Kent and Strathearn, b. 1730, d. 1813, Regent of Britain 1767 to 1769, King of Prussia in his own right, 1802 to 1813, m. Elisabeth Louise of Brandenburg Schwedt​
1) William of Prussia, b. 1779, r. 1813 to 1843, m. morganatically (vii)​
2) Louise I of Great Britain, b. 1770, r​
1820 to 1836, m. Antoni Radziwill, Duke of Clarence​
a) William V of Great Britain, b. 1797, r. 1836 to 1870​



(i) Negotiations for George and Hedwig Sophia to marry occurred IOTL, but are more successful here. Likewise, George petitioned his father for permission to take part in the War of the Spanish Succession, but IOTL the elder refused - here the younger George finds his persistence rewarded (as he has a son and heir) until he comes to an untimely end.
(ii) Charles, named after Hedwig Sophia's father, catches smallpox from his mother and both die. OTL, Caroline of Ansbach and George Augustus caught smallpox, and both survived.
(iii) OTL George II was given the title Duke of Cambridge by Anne of Great Britain. He may have still received it here, but upon Sophia becoming Queen, she recreates it for her husband.
(iv) IOTL, Frederick becomes the first of his grandfather's grandchildren to survive infancy. Here, he doesn't.
(v) Therese Natalia IOTL was Abbess of Gandersheim, but here marries her elder sister, Luise's OTL husband.
(vi) Takes part as IOTL in the Flanders Campaign inc. the Battle of Wervik where he is wounded and later dies
(vii) The War of the English Succession resulted in William, King of Prussia abdicating any claim to the British crown in favour of the line of his sister, Louise of Kent and Strathearn due to the desire to keep Prussia and Britain as seperate crowns. At any rate, they would have separated by 1843 anyway as the Hohenzollern male line was extinct, cue The War of the Prussian Succession!
 
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Scenario: Elizabeth Tudor (b.1492) survives her childhood illness and marries Louis XII in 1514. Hijinks ensue.
I'm curious as to what happens to Kristina of Denmark TTL? Did she wind up married to Henry VIII (the horror!) or did her uncle let her marry the prince d'Orange like she wanted to?
 
A little something I started pondering ...

George I of Great Britain, Elector of Hanover, b. 1660, r. 1714 to 1727, m. Sophia Dorothea of Celle
1) George Augustus, b. 1683, d. 1706, m. Hedwig Sophia of Sweden (i)​
a) Charles Augustus, b. 1705, d. 1707 (ii)​
2) Sophia I of Great Britain, Queen Consort of Prussia, b. 1687, r. 1727 to 1757, m. Frederick William, King of Prussia, Duke of Cambridge (iii)​
a) Frederick of Prussia, b. 1712, d. 1720 (iv)​
b) William IV of Great Britain, King of Prussia, b. 1722, r. 1757 to 1758, m. Therese of Brunswick Wolfenbuttel (v)​
1) William Augustus of Wales, b. 1744, d. 1754​
2) Henry IX of Great Britain, King of Prussia, b. 1747, r. 1757 to 1767​
3) Sophia II of Great Britain, b. 1751, r. 1767 to 1820, m. William, Prince of Orange​
a) William, Prince of Wales, b. 1772, d. 1793 (vi)​
c) Frederick, Duke of York and Albany, b. 1726, d. 1802, Regent of Britain and Prussia, 1757 to 1765, King of Prussia in his own right 1767 to 1802​
d) Ferdinand, Duke of Kent and Strathearn, b. 1730, d. 1813, Regent of Britain 1767 to 1769, King of Prussia in his own right, 1802 to 1813, m. Elisabeth Louise of Brandenburg Schwedt​
1) William of Prussia, b. 1779, r. 1813 to 1843, m. morganatically (vii)​
2) Louise I of Great Britain, b. 1770, r​
1820 to 1836, m. Antoni Radziwill, Duke of Clarence​
a) William V of Great Britain, b. 1797, r. 1836 to 1870​
There are massive problems with this idea. Like, firstly, if George I's son predeceases him, the heir to Hannover is Maximilian Wilhelm of Hannover (a Catholic) which means that once more, the electoral college of the HRE is going to be predominantly Catholic, rendering the whole creation of the Protestant electorate of Hannover in the first place pointless. Maxie is going to marry here (unlike OTL, particularly if George doesn't)
Secondly, what's to stop George I remarrying? OTL his divorce was unilateral and nobody outside of Hannover paid it much heed (Hell, his mother-in-law approached William III of England, and encouraged him to back George I as (eventual) heir to England because she hoped it would get the Princess von Ahlden released from her confinement). Here, George I could very well find that the divorce is supported by his cousin by marriage, Emperor Joseph. For the simple reason that should Maximilian Wilhelm inherit Hannover, it'll create a massive headache for the emperor in that some other state (Württemberg was really the only one large enough at the time to merit it) will start eyeing a promotion (since Hannover was bumped up to redress the relgiious "balance" in the electoral college, if Hannover goes Catholic, the balance is out again).

But, let's assume that George stays married to Sophie Dorothea of Celle and that his brother marries someone to sprog off to have kids to succeed in Hannover. With a POD in 1706 (or whenever George II married Hedvig - George I lost interest in the match because he'd heard rumours about Hedvig that made him decide that George II would essentially be marrying his mom; so he packed George II off on a tour to let him pick a bride for himself) it seems more than a bit ASB that Sophie Dorothea of Hannover, Queen of Prussia will exactly have her OTL kids. (And that's assuming she still marries the Prussian crown prince to start with - she didn't want the marriage, Friedrich Wilhelm contemplated divorcing her before the kissing month (honeymoon) was out; but her grandmother and aunt (Friedrich Wilhelm's mom) pushed it).

She had seven sons OTL (one in 1707, one in 1710, Friedrich the Great, another in 1717 who died in infancy, then August, Heinrich and Ferdinand). The oldest one died of an ear infection, the second one of something to do with his teething IIRC. I'm not sure what the 1717 died from, but it seems rather ridiculous to me to think that the first two who'd both be conceived POST-POD would die.

Credulity suspension no. 2: and think that August Wilhelm succeeds his mom as King William IV. Why the change in brides? More specifically, why bother with a change in brides if the children she produces are exactly the same? Then how is it, that August/William IV's second son has exactly the same lifespan as OTL, better yet, that the prince of Wales/king of England dies at exactly the same time (English wiki says August died of a brain tumour, yet no German sources and no more recent bios of Frederick mention this - rather weird considering that Asprey's book was first published nearly eighty years ago in 1941).

Credulity suspension no. 3: Brain tumours crop up for all sorts of reasons. Britain has zero history of uncle-niece marriage (as was Ferdinand of Prussia-Elisabeth of Schwedt - and if her mother is daughter of the Queen of England, she (as well as her sisters Wilhelmine and Freiderike are all) likely marrying a ways better than a Hohenzollern cousin in Ansbach/Bayreuth/Schwedt. Especially since the only reason Wilhelmine married her Bayreuth husband (which was never in Sophie Dorothea's approval box - she urged Wilhelmine to "live with your husband as a sister" so that "the marriage can be set aside") was because her father bullied/blackmailed her into it, using OTL Friedrich the Great - who here, has died in infancy - imprisoned and in disgrace after the failure of his "flight to England" to get her to agree. (Friedrich Wilhelm threatened to have his son and heir executed/imprisoned for life unless Wilhelmine agreed to marry Bayreuth). The Ansbach match hated one another from the start. And the Schwedt match only happened because the margrave ran up debts that Friedrich Wilhelm agreed to pay them off. As daughters of the queen of England, these matches aren't happening.

Credulity suspension no. 4 and Wilhelmine and her sisters all marry as OTL. Still presents a massive problem that under Church of England law such a match would be regarded as illegitimate (the Jacobites who were Catholics, regarded Maria Beatrice of Savoy (Queen Mary III)'s marriage to her Modenese uncle as invalid for this reason).

Credulity suspension no. 5; the marriage between Ferdinand-Elisabeth still happens. English law doesn't acknowledge morganatic marriages. It's why George III had to push through the Royal Marriages Act OTL. So, OTL August of Prussia hopskips past two older brothers, and manages to marry his Polish countess of a mistress (Madame Ostrowska, and that they married or even had children seems to be a fever dream of Mrs. Hass) or better yet, if we're to believe this, that he doesn't marry at all.

Credulity suspension no. 6: Luise of Prussia - that she'd even be allowed to look at Prince Radziwill (who was Catholic) when OTL she was considered for the duke of York (second son of George III), the prince of Denmark (Frederik VI - George III's nephew), Maximilian I of Bavaria (who courted her but ultimately decided on Auguste of Hesse-Darmstadt since Ferdinand was unwilling to let his daughter leave home before she turned 18yo)

Do you understand why I say that this is wildly ASB?
 
There are massive problems with this idea ...

Do you understand why I say that this is wildly ASB?
To be honest, I find your statement that this is wildly ASB more than a little insulting.

1) Even if George I remarried after Sophia Dorothea of Celle, there is no guarantee he would produce male issue, or even any issue at all. Ergo, the succession still defaults to Sophia Dorothea of Great Britain in the event of his death.

2) Fredrick the Great was the first of his grandfather's grandchildren to survive infancy. Here, he simply succumbs to some form of illness or injury as a child, and the line of succession moves to his brother, ITTL Henry IX.

3) I started to make a few changes - such that William IV marries Therese of Brunswick Wolfenbuttel rather than her slightly older sister. And yes, I used the same date of birth and death as many of the OTL counterparts for the simplicity of planning - but that's hardly ASB is it.

4) I will grant you that the marriage to Elisabeth of Brandenburg Schwedt is unlikely - and happy to make that change, not that it will have a significant effect on the timeline.

5) Frederick chooses not to marry and by the time his lack of wife becomes an issue, his father is dead, and neither his brother or his nephew or his niece feel they can force him into marriage, especially with Ferdinand married with kids.

6) And strictly speaking there's nothing to say that in the time between our divergence point and his marriage to Louise of Prussia, the Radziwills could not have converted. Much like Ferdinand of Saxe Coburg and Gotha Koharry being the Catholic branch of the family, equally possible that Antoni sets up a branch of the House of Radziwill (Radziwill Clarence, for example) because of the marriage prospects.
 
To be honest, I find your statement that this is wildly ASB more than a little insulting.
My apologies for coming across strong.
I'm simply pointing out that George II dying with no issue would unleash a potential hurricane of butterflies in the Netherlands, Denmark, Hesse (Who are those guys marrying with no English princesses?) that makes the idea seem very much butterfly herding to wind up with the Radziwiłłs ruling the UK.

the Radziwills could have converted
@Valena @isabella can correct me on this, but there WAS a Protestant branch of Radziwiłłs already. Although by your POD it was extinct in the male line.

Family members who converted (usually Protestant to Catholic, seldom the other way around) like George I's brother (Maximilian); Queen Charlotte's brother (Georg August); Maximilian I of Bavaria's dad (Friedrich Michael); Ferdinand of Coburg etc, were SECOND sons who were in the Imperial Service. Conversion to Catholicism was the ONLY way for them to get promoted above a certain level. They would have had NOTHING to offer a king/queen of England in terms of alliances/security/etc. And even WITH those things, Louisa, at the time of the marriage (1796 in OTL, assuming a similar date here) would've had TWO brothers ahead of her in the succession so there would've been no similar incentive to "convert". Which means Louisa marrying a Catholic puts her and her kids OUTSIDE the line of Succession by the Act of Settlement/Act of Union. @VVD0D95 @The Professor
 
My apologies for coming across strong.
I'm simply pointing out that George II dying with no issue would unleash a potential hurricane of butterflies in the Netherlands, Denmark, Hesse (Who are those guys marrying with no English princesses?) that makes the idea seem very much butterfly herding to wind up with the Radziwiłłs ruling the UK.



@Valena @isabella can correct me on this, but there WAS a Protestant branch of Radziwiłłs already. Although by your POD it was extinct in the male line.

Family members who converted (usually Protestant to Catholic, seldom the other way around) like George I's brother (Maximilian); Queen Charlotte's brother (Georg August); Maximilian I of Bavaria's dad (Friedrich Michael); Ferdinand of Coburg etc, were SECOND sons who were in the Imperial Service. Conversion to Catholicism was the ONLY way for them to get promoted above a certain level. They would have had NOTHING to offer a king/queen of England in terms of alliances/security/etc. And even WITH those things, Louisa, at the time of the marriage (1796 in OTL, assuming a similar date here) would've had TWO brothers ahead of her in the succession so there would've been no similar incentive to "convert". Which means Louisa marrying a Catholic puts her and her kids OUTSIDE the line of Succession by the Act of Settlement/Act of Union. @VVD0D95 @The Professor
Spot on re Louisa, the minute she marries a Catholic she's out the succession as are her kids.
 
Ferdinand I of Portugal has legitimate son, Portuguese House of Burgundy continues.

Ferdinand I (1345-1383) King of Portugal 1367, m. Leonor Teles (1350-1405)

1) Afonso V (1373-1419) King of Portugal 1383, m. Catherine of Lancaster (1373-1418)

1) Eleanor (1391)​
2) Beatrice (1393-1397)​
3) Ferdinand II (1395-1451) King of Portugal 1419, m. Eleanor of Castile* (1402-1445)​
4) Eleanor (1397-1400)​
5) Constance (1398-1446) m. Alfonso XII (1396-1458) King of Castile*​
6) Afonso (1400)​
7) Peter (1401-1402)​
8) Maria (1404-1461) m. Martin II (1406-1439) King of Aragon**​

2) Beatrice (1382-1409) m. Henry III (1379-1406) King of Castile

1) John III (1398-1407) King of Castile 1406​

3) Isabella (1383)

* Children of Fernando de Antequera, who ITTL is not King of Aragon but King of Castile as successor of his nephew.

** Surviving son of Martin I of Sicily and Blanche of Navarre.
 
My apologies for coming across strong.
I'm simply pointing out that George II dying with no issue would unleash a potential hurricane of butterflies in the Netherlands, Denmark, Hesse (Who are those guys marrying with no English princesses?) that makes the idea seem very much butterfly herding to wind up with the Radziwiłłs ruling the UK.



@Valena @isabella can correct me on this, but there WAS a Protestant branch of Radziwiłłs already. Although by your POD it was extinct in the male line.

Family members who converted (usually Protestant to Catholic, seldom the other way around) like George I's brother (Maximilian); Queen Charlotte's brother (Georg August); Maximilian I of Bavaria's dad (Friedrich Michael); Ferdinand of Coburg etc, were SECOND sons who were in the Imperial Service. Conversion to Catholicism was the ONLY way for them to get promoted above a certain level. They would have had NOTHING to offer a king/queen of England in terms of alliances/security/etc. And even WITH those things, Louisa, at the time of the marriage (1796 in OTL, assuming a similar date here) would've had TWO brothers ahead of her in the succession so there would've been no similar incentive to "convert". Which means Louisa marrying a Catholic puts her and her kids OUTSIDE the line of Succession by the Act of Settlement/Act of Union. @VVD0D95 @The Professor
Spot on re Louisa, the minute she marries a Catholic she's out the succession as are her kids.
Yep. And I think that reconversion would only add them behind everyone else too.
 
My apologies for coming across strong.
I'm simply pointing out that George II dying with no issue would unleash a potential hurricane of butterflies in the Netherlands, Denmark, Hesse (Who are those guys marrying with no English princesses?) that makes the idea seem very much butterfly herding to wind up with the Radziwiłłs ruling the UK.



@Valena @isabella can correct me on this, but there WAS a Protestant branch of Radziwiłłs already. Although by your POD it was extinct in the male line.
Yep. And I think that reconversion would only add them behind everyone else too.
As an alternative to the Radziwill-Clarence concept, who would you suggest as an alternative? Or keep the same concept bit shift it to Gedeon, Antoni's younger brother with a matching change to Louise's DOB too (swap her and her brothers DOB round?)
 
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As an alternative to the Radziwill-Clarence concept, who would you suggest as an alternative?
Her OTL options of Denmark or Hannover could be fun. Obviously they'd be different people to OTL. Frederick V maybe marries Juliane of Brunswick as his first wife; a Hannoverian would likely be a descendant of Maximilian Wilhelm and whomever he marries. Since Max only converted to Catholicism out of "ambition" to get promoted, its unlikely he expects his kids to be Catholic. Or a cousin from the Brunswick line could also be possible
 
@Valena @isabella can correct me on this, but there WAS a Protestant branch of Radziwiłłs already. Although by your POD it was extinct in the male line.
Yes. Slutsk Radziwills. But the last Calvinist Duchess of Slutsk (Ludwika Karolina, the darling of oh so many PLC PoDs) died sonless in 1695, and the holdings got absorbed into CATHOLIC Neuburg dynasty anyway.
 
Here's a hypothesis then - Ernest, Duke of York and Albany marries his sister-in-law, Elisabeth Sophie of Brandenburg. Ernest and his line get Hanover when George doesn't have surviving male issue, creating our secondary line from which to establish Louise's husband down the line.
 
Here's a hypothesis then - Ernest, Duke of York and Albany marries his sister-in-law, Elisabeth Sophie of Brandenburg. Ernest and his line get Hanover when George doesn't have surviving male issue, creating our secondary line from which to establish Louise's husband down the line.
I could see that. FW of Prussia hated his half-siblings enough that I could see him marrying Elisabeth Sophie to a (rumoured) gay guy (Ernst) out of spite.
Although IIRC there was also talk of a princess of Nassau for him (Ernst) once his brother became king of England
 
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