List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage

Right so...is there any way to salvage this TL? :coldsweat:

Henry only having a daughter by Marie might help. Because then at least any son of his and Elizabeth's would be first in line to the throne of England, like Arthur was OTL. But they wouldn't be his first child, which would still likely impact on family dynamics..
 
Frederick II of HRE b. 1194 m. Sanchia of Aragon b. 1186(a) Margaret of Flanders(b) Isabella of England (c)

1a. Henry VII of Germany b. 1211 m. Matilda of Portugal*

2a. Frederick of Germany b. 1213 m. Isabella II of Jerusalem

3b. Conrad of Swabia b. 1224 m. Beatrice of Provence

4c.Philip of Swabia b. 1238 d. 1238

5b. Margaret m. Albert II of Meissen

*Daughter of Eleanor of Brittany and Alfonso II of Portugal
 
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Philip of Swabia m. Irene Angelina(a)

1a.Beatrice of Hohenstaufen (1198–1212), married Otto IV, Holy Roman Emperor

2a. Cunigunde of Hohenstaufen (1200–1248), married King Wenceslaus I, King of Bohemia

3a.Marie of Hohenstaufen (1201–1235), married Henry II, Duke of Brabant

4a.Elisabeth of Hohenstaufen (1203–1235), married Conrad the Curly of Silesia, Duke of Opole
 
Frederick II of HRE b. 1194 m. Sanchia of Aragon b. 1186(a) Margaret of Flanders(b) Isabella of England (c)

1a. Henry VII of Germany b. 1211 m. Matilda of Portugal*

2a. Frederick of Germany b. 1213 m. Isabella II of Jerusalem

3b. Conrad of Swabia b. 1224 m. Beatrice of Provence

4c.Philip of Swabia b. 1238 d. 1238

5b. Margaret m. Albert II of Meissen

*Daughter of Eleanor of Brittany and Alfonso II of Portugal

I suspect that this Heinrich VII would still marry his Babenberger wife. They were married in 1225 already, before anyone could've that both her brothers would die without male issue.
 
Maximilian I m. Mary of Burgundy(a) Elizabeth of York(b)

1a. Philip, Duke of Burgundy b. 1478 m. Anne of York(a)

1a1a.Charles, Duke of Burgundy b. 1498

2a. Margaret of Austria b. 1480 m. Charles VIII d. 1498(a) Louis XII(b)

2a1b. Henry II of France b. 1501

3a. Francis, Duke of Brabant and Luxembourg b. 1481 m. Margaret of Brandenburg-Ansbach

3a1a. Maximilian, Duke of Brabant and Luxembourg b. 1501

4b. Archduke Ernest(Ernest I) b. 1483 m. Maria of Aragon(a)

4b1a. Archduke Maximilian(Maximilian II) b. 1501

5b. Anna of Austria b. 1485 m. Juan, Prince of Asturias(a) Sigismund I of Poland(b)

5b1b. Sigismund Augustus b. 1509

6b. Charles b. 1488 m. Julia of Naples b. 1492

7b. Anna of Austria b. 1492 m. William IV of Bavaria
 
Richard III (1452-1507) m 1472 Anne Neville (1457-1485) [a] 1486 Margaret of Scotland (b. 1471)

1a) Edward of Middleham, Prince of Wales (1473-1484)

2b) Richard of Westminster, Prince of Wales (b. 1487)

3b) Cecily of York, (b.1489)

4b) Edmund of Fotheringhay (1488-1491)

5b) Margaret of Nottingham (b. and d. 1490)

6b) James of Dublin (b.1492), Duke of York and Gloucester

7b) Anne of Warwick (b.1494)

8b) Francis of Sheriff Hutton, Duke of Clarence and Richmond (b.1496)

Notes: This POD is two-fold: James III of Scotland has a daughter with Margaret of Denmark before James IV, and Richard succeeds in retrieving Henry Tudor from Brittany, meaning there is no battle of Bosworth, and Richard keeps his throne. Suggestions on the next generation’s marriages/alliances, etc, would be appreciated. The places after their names are their birthplaces, following common medieval practice (or at least common historiography practice...)
 
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Would Richard III have his heir betrothed to Catherine of Aragon? or to someone else?

I was debating Catherine. She's the right age. I was also thinking about reestablishing the Anglo-Portuguese alliance, in an effort to build on what the Lancastrians started, but I think their Princesses are too young - although I suppose one of Richard's younger girls could marry the future John III of Portugal -Anne's only six years older than him. Or four, if Miguel da Paz survives, which may be unlikely.
 
Joan of France survives her journey to Aragon and marries Aragonese infante, future John I of Aragon

John I (1350-1396) King of Aragon 1387-1396 m. 1371 Joanna of France (1351-1403)

1) James III (1372-1402) King of Sicily (with Maria) 1386-1402, King of Aragon 1396-1402 m. 1386 Maria of Sicily (1363-1404)

1) Peter V (1395-1405) King of Aragon 1402-1405, King of Sicily 1404-1405​

2) John II (1375-1429) King of Aragon 1405-1429 m. 1401 Joanna of Navarre (1382-1413) b) 1414 Isabella of Portugal (1397-1471)

1a) John (1403-1404)​
2a) Charles (1405-1406)​
3a) Alfonso (1407-1411)​
4a) Joanna III (1410-1441) Queen of Navarre m. 1425 James (see below)​
5b) John (1416-1418)​
6b) Philippa (1418)​
7b) Eleanor (1421-1423)​

3) Joanna (1377-1426) m. Matthew of Foix, has issue

4) Philip (1379

5) Alfonso I/V (1381-1442) King of Naples 1415-1442 (with Joanna II untill 1435) King of Aragon 1429-1442 m. a) 1408 Margaret of Prades (1388-1412) b) 1415 Joanna of Naples (1371-1435)

1a) James (1410-1428) King of Navarre iure uxoris 1425-1428 m. 1425 Joanna III (1410-1441) Queen of Navarre 1425-1441​
1) Alfonso II/VI (1428-1479) King of Navarre 1441-1479, King of Aragon 1442-1479​
2a) John I (1412-1466) King of Naples and Sicily 1442-1466 m. 1440 Isabella of Clermont (1424-1465)​
1) Alfonso (1443-1453)​
2) John II (1446-1509) King of Naples​
3) Margaret (1448-1505)​
4) Maria (1450-1487)​
5) Peter (1451)​
6) Joanna (1455-1531)​

6) Eleanor (1384)
 
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Richard I of England m. Berengaria of Navarre

1a. Eleanor of England b. 1192 m. Frederick II of Sicily b. 1194

2a. Henry III of England b. 1194 m. Marie of France

3a. Guilhem XI of Aquitaine b. 1196 m. Douce of Leon b. 1194

4a. Matilda of England b. 1198 m. Peter II of Aragon

5a. Elijah of England b. 1203



Constance of Brittany m. Geoffrey I of Brittany(a) Ranulf of Blondeville(b)

1a. Eleanor of Brittany m. Frederick I of Austria

1a1a. Helena of Austria b. 1199 m. Conrad the Curly

1a2a. Margaret of Austria b. 1204 m. Henry VII of Germany*

1a3a. Henry III of Austria b. 1208 m. Agnes of Thuringia

1a4a. Constance of Austria b. 1212 m.Henry III of Meissen

2a. Matilda of Brittany d. 1189

3a. Arthur of Brittany b. 1187 m. Sanchia of Portugal

3a1a. Geoffrey III of Brittany b. 1203

4b. Conan of Brittany b. 1199



*Son of Eleanor of England and Frederick II of Sicily.
 
Some stuff from a TL idea I have

House of Habsburg
Philip I of Castile (1478-1506), King of Castile 1506-1506 Duke of Burgundy 1482-1506 M. 1496 Joanna "the Mad" of Castile (1479-1555), Queen of Castile 1504-1555, Queen of Aragon 1516-1555

1. Eleanor, Queen of Portugal (1498-1558) M. 1518 Manuel I of Portugal (1469-1521) Had Issue, M. 1524 Charles III, Duke of Bourbon (1490-1543) Had Issue

2. Charles (V) (1500-1529), Anti-Emperor and King of Germany 1523-1529, King of Spain 1516-1529, Archduke of Austria 1519-1529, Duke of Burgundy 1506-1529

3. Isabella, Queen of Denmark (1501-1526) M. 1515 Christian II of Denmark (1481-1559) Had Issue

4. Ferdinand V (1503-1554), Anti-King of Bohemia and Hungary 1524-1529, King of Spain 1529-1554, Archduke of Austria 1529-1554, Duke of Burgundy 1529-1554 M.1515 Anne of Bohemia and Hungary (1503-1546)

1. Charles II (1530-1593), King of Spain 1554-1593​
3. Maximilian II (1533-1578), Archduke of Austria 1554-1578​
4. Ferdinand II (1535-1601), Duke of Burgundy 1554-1601​
Others
5. Mary, Queen of Bohemia and Hungary (1505-1558) M. 1522 Louis II, King of Bohemia and Hungary (1506-1524)

1. Louis III "the Young' (1523-1570), King of Bohemia and Hungary (1524-1570)​
6. Catherine of Austria, Queen of England (1507-1571) M. 1527 Henry VIII, King of England (1491-1556)

See below for issue

House of Tudor
Henry VIII (1491-1556), King of England 1507-1556 M. 1509, D. 1527 Catherine of Aragon (1485-1530), M. 1527 Catherine of Austria (1507-1571)

1a. Henry, Duke of Cornwall (1511-1511)​
2a. Mary Tudor, Queen of Spain (1516-1562) M. 1549 Charles II of Spain (1530-1593) Had Issue
3b. Elizabeth Tudor, Duchess of Bavaria (1530-1558) M. 1548 Albert V, Duke of Bavaria (1528-1579) Had Issue
4b. Henry, Prince of Wales (1532-1540)​
5b. Margaret Tudor, Duchess of Ormond (1536-1590) M. Thomas Butler, 1st Duke of Ormond (1528-1579) Had Issue
6b. Edward VI of England (1538-1571), King of England 1556-1571 M. Mary I of Scotland (1542-1603), Queen of Scotland 1567-1603​
 
Eleanor of Aquitaine m. Louis VII(a) Henry II of England(b)

1a.Marie of France b. 1145 m. Philip of Flanders

2a.Alix of France 1150 m. William II of Sicily

3b. William, Count of Poitiers b. d. 1153

4b. Henry III of England b. 1155 m. Beatrice of Swabia

5b. Matilda of England b. 1156 m. Henry the Lion(b)

6b. Richard, Duke of Aquitaine b. 1157 m. Margaret of France

7b. Geoffrey of England b. 1158 m. Constance of Brittany

8b. Eleanor of England b. 1160 m. Alfonso VIII

9b. Joanna of England b. 1165 m. Henry VI, Holy Roman Emperor

10b. John b. 1166 m. Ida, Countess of Boulogne(b)
 
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House of Tudor
Henry VIII (1491-1556), King of England 1507-1556 M. 1509, D. 1527 Catherine of Aragon (1485-1530), M. 1527 Catherine of Austria (1507-1571)

1a. Henry, Duke of Cornwall (1511-1511)​
2a. Mary Tudor, Queen of Spain (1516-1562) M. 1549 Charles II of Spain (1530-1593) Had Issue
3b. Elizabeth Tudor, Duchess of Bavaria (1530-1558) M. 1548 Albert V, Duke of Bavaria (1528-1579) Had Issue
4b. Henry, Prince of Wales (1532-1540)​
5b. Margaret Tudor, Duchess of Ormond (1536-1590) M. Thomas Butler, 1st Duke of Ormond (1528-1579) Had Issue
6b. Edward VI of England (1538-1571), King of England 1556-1571 M. Mary I of Scotland (1542-1603), Queen of Scotland 1567-1603​

What reason would Albrecht V have for taking an English princess over an Austrian archduchess? The marriages for Henry VIII's daughters seem ASBish (and I'm assuming Catalina of Aragon DIED since THAT would be the ONLY way she'd allow Henry to remarry).

My thoughts: Mary would be married off in the 1530s (as soon as her father has a male heir). Possibly to someone well-up (like François I's eldest son; Hans, son of Isabella of Austria and Christian II of Denmark would be the only age appropriate candidate the Habsburgs can field) if the OTL nastiness hasn't happened. If it HAS, (which I assume, given her late marriage date, then Mary will get a bit lower (James V of Scotland's mom was interested in a match between Jim and Mary at one point). She's NOT waiting 30+ years for a husband to grow up.

Second. Daughters from Henry's second marriage to the sister of TWO emperors and THREE queens will CERTAINLY marry BETTER than they do in your diagram. OTL Elizabeth was betrothed to Charles, duc d'Angoulême, Felipe II of Spain, an unspecified son of the king of Portugal (OTL son of Katherina of Austria) and Alfonso II of Ferrara (as a French proxy) before her dad died. Pretty sure Katharina's daughters will land AT LEAST one of those.

Third. Who does João III marry here, if NOT a sister of Karl V? And why does Karl V NOT marry TTL? True, OTL he took his time getting to the altar, but his death is POST-OTL wedding and if he hasn't got a sister for Portugal, he'll marry his OTL wife (possibly SOONER than OTL).
 
What reason would Albrecht V have for taking an English princess over an Austrian archduchess? The marriages for Henry VIII's daughters seem ASBish (and I'm assuming Catalina of Aragon DIED since THAT would be the ONLY way she'd allow Henry to remarry).

My thoughts: Mary would be married off in the 1530s (as soon as her father has a male heir). Possibly to someone well-up (like François I's eldest son; Hans, son of Isabella of Austria and Christian II of Denmark would be the only age appropriate candidate the Habsburgs can field) if the OTL nastiness hasn't happened. If it HAS, (which I assume, given her late marriage date, then Mary will get a bit lower (James V of Scotland's mom was interested in a match between Jim and Mary at one point). She's NOT waiting 30+ years for a husband to grow up.

Second. Daughters from Henry's second marriage to the sister of TWO emperors and THREE queens will CERTAINLY marry BETTER than they do in your diagram. OTL Elizabeth was betrothed to Charles, duc d'Angoulême, Felipe II of Spain, an unspecified son of the king of Portugal (OTL son of Katherina of Austria) and Alfonso II of Ferrara (as a French proxy) before her dad died. Pretty sure Katharina's daughters will land AT LEAST one of those.

Third. Who does João III marry here, if NOT a sister of Karl V? And why does Karl V NOT marry TTL? True, OTL he took his time getting to the altar, but his death is POST-OTL wedding and if he hasn't got a sister for Portugal, he'll marry his OTL wife (possibly SOONER than OTL).

This is a scenario where Frederick of Saxony won the 1519 HRE election, leading to a religious war breaking out in 1523 that fizzled out when Charles gets distracted by France and Ferdinand gets distracted by wars of Succession in Hungary and Bohemia. Henry also intervenes which, combined with no Sack of Rome, means the Pope grants his divorce. As Anne Boleyn's marriage to the Earl of Ormond went through, Henry falls in love with an Archduchess instead.

The second generation's marriages were a bit rushed and if I make this into a TL they will be changed. Charles never married because he was too busy with the war, but I might change that.
 

VVD0D95

Banned
This is a scenario where Frederick of Saxony won the 1519 HRE election, leading to a religious war breaking out in 1523 that fizzled out when Charles gets distracted by France and Ferdinand gets distracted by wars of Succession in Hungary and Bohemia. Henry also intervenes which, combined with no Sack of Rome, means the Pope grants his divorce. As Anne Boleyn's marriage to the Earl of Ormond went through, Henry falls in love with an Archduchess instead.

The second generation's marriages were a bit rushed and if I make this into a TL they will be changed. Charles never married because he was too busy with the war, but I might change that.
Charlesnnevwr marrying seems a bit asb no? The man needs to continue his libe
 
Charlesnnevwr marrying seems a bit asb no? The man needs to continue his libe

Yeah I'll probably change it. They could always be married by proxy after all. However, I doubt (and for story purposes he won't) he'll have any kids because he will be too busy with the war and his wife will likely be in Castile, while he'll be in Germany, Burgundy and France.
 

VVD0D95

Banned
Yeah I'll probably change it. They could always be married by proxy after all. However, I doubt (and for story purposes he won't) he'll have any kids because he will be too busy with the war and his wife will likely be in Castile, while he'll be in Germany, Burgundy and France.
Why? He managed it otl..,
 
Alfonso V of Aragon has legitimate issue

Alfonso V/I (1396-1458) King of Aragon and Sicily 1416-1458, King of Naples 1442-1458 m. 1415 Mary of Castile (1401-1458)

1) Eleanor (1423-1483) m. 1436 Charles IV (1421-1472) King of Navarre

1) John II (1440-1479) King of Navarre 1472-1479 m. 1458 Joanna of Portugal (1439-1475)​

2) Ferdinand (1425-1426)

3) Catherine (1428-1429)

4) Mary (1430)

5) Alfonso VI/II (1433-1472) King of Aragon, Sicily and Naples (1458-1472) m. 1453 Eleanor of Portugal (1434-1467)

1) Alfonso VII (Aragon) III (Naples and Sicily) XII (Castile) (1455-1507) King of Aragon, Sicily and Naples 1472-1507, King of Castile iure uxoris 1474-1504 m. 1470 Isabella (1451-1504) Queen of Castile​
2) John (1458-1460)​
3) Mary (1460-1514) m. 1477 Charles V* (1460-1503) King of Navarre​

5) Catherine (1435-1489) m. 1452 Frederick (1415-1493) Holy Roman Emperor

1) Helene (1455)​
2) Christopher (1458-1515) Holy Roman Emperor 1493-1515 m. 1477 Mary of Burgundy (1457-1511)​
3) Mary (1460-1463)​
4) Kunigunde (1466-1527) m. 1487 Casimir IV** (1458-1524) King of Poland​
5) Catherine (1468-1516) m. 1488 Albert IV (1447-1508) Duke of Bavaria- Munich​
* Son of John II of Navarre and Joanna of Portugal
** OTL Saint Casimir. He is Casimir IV not V, because his father, known in OTL as Casimir IV, in fact used number III during his reign
 
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