List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage
- Thread starter Jonathan
- Start date
I imagine that Eleanor elopes with Frederick (which is weird because I thought they only met during the interval between her two marriages) and so Charles offers Isabella in Portugal, which again is weird because she was married in Denmark well before Charles was offering a sister in Portugal.
They are not Charles's to give and Hungary never belonged to Charles in the first place, why Ferdinand would agree to give up Hungary in favor of his nephew?
Yes, Eleanor and Frederick have a scandalous elopement and so Charles offers his sister to Portugal
ITTL Ferdinand is childless so he has no choice (note I did not put any descendants of Ferdinand down)
As far as Austria is involved, sure thing, but Hungary was his wife's inheritance or "inheritance" and I doubt even pro-Habsburg nobles would be going to back son of Charles V with no connection to previous dynasty who is a Spaniard unable to help them.
This is what I’ve come up with so far.
Charles II of England, Scotland & Ireland (29/5/1630–6/2/1685) m. 1648, Sophie Augusta of Holstein-Gottorp (5/12/1630–12/12/1680)
- Charles, Prince of Wales, later, Charles III of England, Scotland & Ireland (1/12/1650-4/3/1718) m. 1666, Princess Elisabeth Charlotte of the Palatinate, later, Queen Consort Elizabeth of England, Scotland & Ireland (27/5/1652–8/12/1722)
- Princess Mary, later, Princess Royal, later, Duchess of Orléans (15/10/1651-) m. 1570, Philippe I, Duke of Orléans (21/9/1640–9/6/1701)
- Princess Elizabeth, later, Princess consort of Orange (11/8/1652- m. 1670, William III, Prince of Orange (4/11/1650-8/3/1702)
- Prince Robert, Duke of Cambridge & Ross, later additionally, Duke of Newcastle-on-Tyne (24/9/1653-9/12/1715) m. 1669, Lady Elizabeth Cavendish, Heiress of Newcastle-on-Tyne, later, Duchess. Of Newcastle-on-Tyne (22/2/1654–11/9/1734)
- Miscarriage (15/4/1654)
- Princess Anne, later, Electress Consort of Palatine (25/2/1655- 17/5/1709) m. 1671, Charles II, Elector Palatine (31/3/1651–26/5/1685)
- Prince James, Duke of Gloucester & Glasgow (19/5/1656-) m. Marie Elisabeth of Hesse-Darmstadt (11/3/1656–16/8/1715)
- Princess Sophie, Queen of Sweden (14/2/1657-1733) m. Charles XI, King of Sweden (4/12/1657-15/4/1697)
- Stillborn son (27/2/1658)
- Princess Henrietta (12/1/1659-15/11/1674)
- Prince Frederick, Duke of Lancaster & Kendal (7/5/1660-18/10/1720) m.
- miscarriage (7/5/1661)
- Prince Henry, Duke of the Monmouth & Cleveland (4/2/1662-30/12/1718) m. 1681, Princess Anne of York (6/2/1665–1/8/1714)
- Prince William, Duke of Durham & Dunmore, later, Duke of Northumberland (11/5/1663-1726) m. 1681, Lady Elizabeth Percy, Dowager Countess of Ogle and Duchess of Northumberland (26/1/1667–24/11/1722)
- Princess Augusta (21/7/1664-17/8/1736) m. 1682, Charles Seymour, 6th Duke of Somerset (13/8/1662-2/12/1748)
- miscarriage (25/7/1665)
- Princess Charlotte, later, Princess of Conti, later, Queen of Poland & Grand Duchess of Lithuania (22/12/1666-17/1/1717) m. 1685, François Louis de Bourbon, le Grand Conti, later, Louis II, King of Poland & Grand Duke of Lithuania (30/4/1664–22/2/1709)
POD Sigismund II Augustus has issue
Sigismund II Augustus b. 1520 m. Catherine of Austria b. 1533
1. Sigismund III b. 1554 m. 1572 Margaret of Valois b. 1553
- Anne b. 1572 Francis II Duke of Lorraine b. 1572
- Sigismund IV b. 1573 m. Anne of Denmark b. 1574
2. Elizabeth b. 1554 m. 1572 Sebastian of Portugal b. 1554
- Joao IV of Portugal b. 1572 m. Anne of Austria b. 1573
- Sebastian b. 1574 m. Marie de Medici b. 1575
- Elizabeth b. 1575 abbess
Sigismund II Augustus b. 1520 m. Catherine of Austria b. 1533
1. Sigismund III b. 1554 m. 1572 Margaret of Valois b. 1553
- Anne b. 1572 Francis II Duke of Lorraine b. 1572
- Sigismund IV b. 1573 m. Anne of Denmark b. 1574
2. Elizabeth b. 1554 m. 1572 Sebastian of Portugal b. 1554
- Joao IV of Portugal b. 1572 m. Anne of Austria b. 1573
- Sebastian b. 1574 m. Marie de Medici b. 1575
- Elizabeth b. 1575 abbess
VVD0D95
Banned
Oh an intriguing tree wiuld the double palatinate marriagebbe due to attempts by Charles elector palatinate to reconcile with his cousins?
re duchy of Lancaster can it be separated from the crown?
Francis III of Brittany b. 1518 m. 1535 Maria of Viseu b. 1521
- Francis II of France b. 1536 m. Elizabeth Tudor* b. 1533
[*] She is never queen ITTL as Edward VI lived to have healthy issue.
- Francis II of France b. 1536 m. Elizabeth Tudor* b. 1533
[*] She is never queen ITTL as Edward VI lived to have healthy issue.
Eleanor and Frederick meet before Charles‘ departure for Spain, so well before her marriage to Manuel… I think you are mixing Eleanor and Christine (of Denmark, whose romance with René of Chalon, who happened between her marriages , was likewise broken by Charles V)
Henry VIII m. Catherine of Aragon(a)
1a. Elizabeth, Queen of France b. 1510 m. Francis I(a) Antoine, Duke of Vendome(b)
2a. Joanna, Queen of Portugal b. 1510 m. John III of Portugal
3a. Henry IX b. 1511
4a. Edward b. 1513
5a. Edmund b. 1514
6a. Mary b. 1516 m. James IV
7a. Catherine b. 1518 m. Emperor Maximilian II b. 1520[2]
1.Son of Ferdinand III of Castile(Archduke Ferdinand) and Isabella of Portugal
2. Son of Charles V and Anna of Bohemia-Hungary
Note John of Aragon, son of Germaine and Ferdinand II survives here.
1a. Elizabeth, Queen of France b. 1510 m. Francis I(a) Antoine, Duke of Vendome(b)
2a. Joanna, Queen of Portugal b. 1510 m. John III of Portugal
3a. Henry IX b. 1511
4a. Edward b. 1513
5a. Edmund b. 1514
6a. Mary b. 1516 m. James IV
7a. Catherine b. 1518 m. Emperor Maximilian II b. 1520[2]
1.Son of Ferdinand III of Castile(Archduke Ferdinand) and Isabella of Portugal
2. Son of Charles V and Anna of Bohemia-Hungary
Note John of Aragon, son of Germaine and Ferdinand II survives here.
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Why do Charles and Ferdinand switch wives? Why are none of Henry and Katherine's sons married? Why would Castile go to Ferdinand? Why is Elizabeth marrying Francis II, born 34 years after her? Also, if 6b is born and dead in the same year, how is he "John III"? Why is Mary marrying James VI, born 50 years after her?
It’s also a way to keep claimants within the family. Plus with heirs, spares and more double marriages aren’t seen as a waste, especially marrying a spare to his cousin Anne. ITTL Charles is able to marry Mary of York to Dauphin of France as planned otl.
With legitimate children, I doubt Charles finds the need to have the excessive amount of illegitimate children but the ones he dies have won’t be bestowed dukedoms, instead minor Earldoms to keep them comfortable without over reaching like IOTL.
All Duchies can be separated:
The are inherited by the eldest son upon death of holder and handed out at the monarchs pleasure.
For example when Edward VIII abdicated his brother the duke of York became king and the title was merged with the crown. It wouldn’t be recreated until the Queen bestowed it upon her second son Andrew, when he dies without male heir, the title become extinct and the monarch has the power to create it again.
The duchy of Edinburgh which has been created three times and in it’s current form has gone to the eldest son of the previous holder (Philip to Charles). It has been speculated that it will have a fourth creation to be bestowed onto Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex after Charles, Prince of Wales, becomes king and the title reverts to the crown.
VVD0D95
Banned
Intetesting. And true re the duchies tho I was under the impression that Lancaster had been given special status to stick with the sovereign since the reign of Henry IV
Although Henry IV made the declaration that the Duchy of Lancaster became an inheritance held separately from the other possessions of the Crown, and should descend to male heirs and was confirmed iby Edward IV when he incorporated the inheritance and the palatinate responsibilities under the title of the Duchy of Lancaster, stipulating that it be held separate from other inheritances by him and his heirs, but would however be inherited with the Crown. This hasn’t be dictated by a parliamentary act yet, just customary tradition.
As the newly restored king, Charles II may wish to have the Duchy handed out, allowing others to benefit especially a son further down the inheritance and influence line of power.
VVD0D95
Banned
Ahhh this is true, would be intriguing to see if he’d be willing to allow that to happen. Given the money concerns that led to the civil war and all that
No way who Eleanor married John here. She will marry Sigismund I of Poland as second wife if her other proposed matches do not work (still Ferdinand of Austria inheriting Castile if the son of Germaine lived is out of question)