List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage

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Tyrann Philip II

Tyrann Philip II

Alrighty, just sketching out Habsburg TL here:

  • Leopold II (1716-1783) m. Mariana Victoria of Spain (1718-1781)
    • Friedrich IV (1738-1808) m. Maria Josepha of Bavaria (1739-1804)
      • (I couldn't resist) Karl Franz I (1757-1826)
      • Elisabeth Christine (1762-1832)
    • Maria Claudia Johanna (1738-1800) m. Louis XVI* (1729-1789)
      • Here be Bourbons (too lazy to write them in)
    • Gabriela Augusta (1743-1745)
    • Heinrich Maximilian (1746-1819)
    • Ferdinand Wilhelm (1754-1821) m. Maria Amalia of Saxony (1757-1831)
      • Antonia Carolina (1774-1838)
    • Anna Isabella (1775-1836) m. John VI (1767-1826)
*Son of Louis XV

The main POD here is Charles VI's eldest child, Leopold Johann, surviving his infancy and becoming Holy Roman Emperor. Another one I threw in was OTL Louis XVI's father surviving his brush with smallpox. This is still a major work in progress, so feel free to critique as you wish.
 

Jan Olbracht

Descendants of Blanche of Navarre and John of Aragon (Trastamara wank): John dies before Blanche (thus he has no occassion to fight against his son over Navarre). OTL childless marriages of older children of Blanche (Charles and Blanche) are not childless ITTL.

John Trastamara (1398-1440) m. 1419 Blanche of Navarre (1387-1441)

1) Charles IV/I (1421-1475) King of Navarre 1441-1475, King of Aragon 1458-1475 m. a) 1439 Agnes of Cleves (1422-1448) b) 1453 Catherine of Portugal (1436-1463)

1a) John III (of Navarre and Castile)/II (of Aragon) (1441-1501) King of Aragon and Navarre 1475-1501, King of Castile iure uxoris 1474-1501, m. 1464 Eleanor of Castile (1449-1503)

2a) Blanche (1443)

3a) Mary (1445-1448)

4a) Charles (1446-1507) m. 1474 Mary of Burgundy (1457-1511)

5b) Eleanor (1454-1508) m. 1471 Alfonso II (1448-1495) King of Naples
​
2) Joanna (1423-1425)

3) Blanche (1424-1485) m. 1440 Henry IV (1425-1474) King of Castile

1) Mary (1445-1447)

2) Eleanor (1449-1503) Queen of Castile 1474-1503, m. John of Aragon (see above)
​
4) Eleanor (1427-1479) m. Gaston of Foix

Castile and Aragon are united peacefully via marriage of son of Charles of Navarre/Aragon and daughter of Henry IV of Castile, thus Charles the Bold sees younger son of Charles IV as good candidate for his heiress' husband, as he'd have backing of newly united Spain.
 

Jan Olbracht

More successful Casimir of Słupsk.

Louis I of Hungary dies few days before his Polish uncle. In Hungary Elizabeth of Bosnia fights civil war against Charles of Durazzo, meanwhile Casimir of Słupsk (who happens to be a bit smarter ITTL) succeedes grandfather as King of Poland. Griffite rule does not last long-Casimir II (Casimir the Great used number "I", thus Casimir of Słupsk would be the second, not fourth) has no male heir. But his daughter marries Jogaila, Duke of Lithuania, who starts new royal house of Poland. Outcome similar to OTL but without period of Polish-Hungarian union with absend king and with better legitimacy of Jagiellon dynasty.

Casimir II (1351-1384) King of Poland 1370-1384, Duke of Słupsk 1374-1384 m. a) Joanna of Lithuania (d. 1368) b) 1369 Margaret of Mazovia (d. 1388)

1b) Casimir (1371-1381)

2b) Elizabeth (1373-1425) m. 1386 Casimir III Jogaila (ca. 1360-1434) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1386-1434

1) Margaret (1389-1446) m. Ladislaus V Anjou-Durazzo (1379-1441) King of Hungary and Naples

2) Elizabeth (1391-1394)

3) Anna (1393-1456) m. Eric of Pomerania (1382-1459) King of Denmark, Norway and Sweden

4) Hedwig (1397)

5) Casimir IV (1402-1461) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1434-1461 m. 1418 Margaret of Luxembourg* (1399-1457)
​
3b) Vladislaus (1378-1383)​

* Daughter of Sigismund of Luxembourg (who ITTL never gets Hungarian throne, is Elector of Brandenburg and then King of Bohemia and Holy Roman Emperor) and Richardis of Mecklenburg.

@krieger
 
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VVD0D95

Banned
Edward V is born in 1466:

Edward V of England (b.1466:d.1514) m Kunigunde or Austria (b.1465d.1520)

issue:

Elizabeth (b.1482)

Edward VI (b.1483)

Richard of England (b.1485)

Anne of England (b.1489)

William of England (b.1493)

Eleanor of England (b.1498)
 

Wendell

Can we explore this some more @Jan Olbracht ?

I do like the idea of Casimir of Slupsk becoming King of Poland as a result of that POD, but I'm not sure about Sigismund here. Why would he hold both electorates in this timeline instead of parting with one as per OTL, and would the other electors tolerate one ruler holding both Bohemia and Brandenburg?

Also, does TTL Ladislaus V manage to sire children with Margaret?
 

Jan Olbracht

Wendell said:
Can we explore this some more @Jan Olbracht ?

I do like the idea of Casimir of Slupsk becoming King of Poland as a result of that POD, but I'm not sure about Sigismund here. Why would he hold both electorates in this timeline instead of parting with one as per OTL, and would the other electors tolerate one ruler holding both Bohemia and Brandenburg?

Also, does TTL Ladislaus V manage to sire children with Margaret?
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Possibly Sigismund could ceede Electorate of Brandenburg to his son upon taking Bohemia, eventually it may go to younger son later.
 
kasumigenx

kasumigenx

Eleanor of Austria m. Louis XII of France d. 1518(a) John III of Portugal(b)

1a. Charles X of France b. 1516

2a. Marguerite of France b. 1518

3b. Alfonso VI of Portugal b. 1522 m. Mary Tudor b. 1516

4b. Maria of Portugal b. 1526 m. Philip II of Spain

5b. Manuel of Portugal b. 1530

6b. Philip of Portugal b. 1533

7b. John Manuel b. 1536
 
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redjirachi

Augustus Approves
  • 1: Emperor Augustus(Gaius Octavius): Ruled 727-767 AUC. First emperor and first citizen, great-nephew and adoptive son of Julius Caesar
  • 2: Emperor Drusus(Nero Claudius Drusus): Ruled 767-779 AUC. Step-son, adoptive son of Emperor Augustus(speculated to be his biological son). His son Germanicus predeceased him around his OTL death(he died in battle), sadly Drusus' heart was not in it and he passed away not long after
  • 3: Emperor Germanicus(Nero Julius Caesar Germanicus): Ruled 779-820 AUC. Dubbed himself as such to honor his fallen father. His brother Gaius Caesar(aka Caligula) was a more rational figure and competent general in this timeline.
 

Jan Olbracht

Martin I of Aragon has one more surviving son.

Martin I (1356-1410) King of Aragon 1396-1410 m. 1372 Maria de Luna (1358-1406)

1) Martin (1374-1409) King of Sicily m. 1392 Mary of Sicily (1363-1415)

1) Peter V (1398-1449) King of Sicily 1409-1449, King of Aragon 1410-1449, King of Naples 1435-1449 m. 1420 Mary of Aragon (1405-1471) (see below)

1) Martin (1422-1425)

2) Peter VI (1423-1466) King of Navarre iure uxoris 1444-1466, King of Aragon 1449-1466 m. Joanna III of Navarre (see below)

3) John I (1424-1489) King of Naples and Sicily m. 1444 Isabella of Clermont (1424-1465)

4) Joanna (1426-1428)

5) Martin (1430)​

2) James (1378)

3) John (1380-1408) m. 1400 Joanna of Navarre (1382-1416)

1) Charles IV (1403-1444) King of Navarre 1425-1444 m. 1422 Eleanor of Antequera* (1402-1445)

1) Charles (1423-1426)

2) Joanna III (1425-1477) Queen of Navarre 1444-1477 m. 1438 Peter VI (1423-1466) King of Aragon (see above)
​
2) Mary (1405-1471) m. 1420 Peter V King of Aragon (see above)

3) Eleanor (1408-1472) m. 1426 Edward (1391-1438) King of Portugal

1) John II (1428-1479) King of Portugal 1438-1479

2) Afonso (1430-1435)

3) Philippa (1432-1499)​


4) Margaret (1384)

* Daughter of Fernando de Antequera, who never gets Aragonese throne and is only regent of Castile ITTL.
 

Kellan Sullivan

Jan Olbracht said:
Martin I of Aragon has one more surviving son.

Martin I (1356-1410) King of Aragon 1396-1410 m. 1372 Maria de Luna (1358-1406)

1) Martin (1374-1409) King of Sicily m. 1392 Mary of Sicily (1363-1415)

1) Peter V (1398-1449) King of Sicily 1409-1449, King of Aragon 1410-1449, King of Naples 1435-1449 m. 1420 Mary of Aragon (1405-1471) (see below)

1) Martin (1422-1425)

2) Peter VI (1423-1466) King of Navarre iure uxoris 1444-1466, King of Aragon 1449-1466 m. Joanna III of Navarre (see below)

3) John I (1424-1489) King of Naples and Sicily m. 1444 Isabella of Clermont (1424-1465)

4) Joanna (1426-1428)

5) Martin (1430)​

2) James (1378)

3) John (1380-1408) m. 1400 Joanna of Navarre (1382-1416)

1) Charles IV (1403-1444) King of Navarre 1425-1444 m. 1422 Eleanor of Antequera* (1402-1445)

1) Charles (1423-1426)

2) Joanna III (1425-1477) Queen of Navarre 1444-1477 m. 1438 Peter VI (1423-1466) King of Aragon (see above)
​
2) Mary (1405-1471) m. 1420 Peter V King of Aragon (see above)

3) Eleanor (1408-1472) m. 1426 Edward (1391-1438) King of Portugal

1) John II (1428-1479) King of Portugal 1438-1479

2) Afonso (1430-1435)

3) Philippa (1432-1499)​


4) Margaret (1384)

* Daughter of Fernando de Antequera, who never gets Aragonese throne and is only regent of Castile ITTL.
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It sounds stupid, but perhaps instead of a cousin match to Maria of Aragon, Pedro V could marry Blanche of Lancaster (daughter of Henry IV)? There were originally negotiations going on that would've married her to first Martin I of Sicily's son (Pedro/Pietro) and then to the widowered Martin himself. There was also talk of a marriage of Blanche's OTL husband to an Aragonese/Sicilian princess (not sure who that was though).
 

Jan Olbracht

Kellan Sullivan said:
It sounds stupid, but perhaps instead of a cousin match to Maria of Aragon, Pedro V could marry Blanche of Lancaster (daughter of Henry IV)? There were originally negotiations going on that would've married her to first Martin I of Sicily's son (Pedro/Pietro) and then to the widowered Martin himself. There was also talk of a marriage of Blanche's OTL husband to an Aragonese/Sicilian princess (not sure who that was though).
Click to expand...
Good idea, good to have some fresh blood added to Iberian royal house.
 

Kellan Sullivan

Tyrann Philip II said:
Alrighty, just sketching out Habsburg TL here:

  • Leopold II (1716-1783) m. Mariana Victoria of Spain (1718-1781)
    • Friedrich IV (1738-1808) m. Maria Josepha of Bavaria (1739-1804)
      • (I couldn't resist) Karl Franz I (1757-1826)
      • Elisabeth Christine (1762-1832)
    • Maria Claudia Johanna (1738-1800) m. Louis XVI* (1729-1789)
      • Here be Bourbons (too lazy to write them in)
    • Gabriela Augusta (1743-1745)
    • Heinrich Maximilian (1746-1819)
    • Ferdinand Wilhelm (1754-1821) m. Maria Amalia of Saxony (1757-1831)
      • Antonia Carolina (1774-1838)
    • Anna Isabella (1775-1836) m. John VI (1767-1826)
*Son of Louis XV

The main POD here is Charles VI's eldest child, Leopold Johann, surviving his infancy and becoming Holy Roman Emperor. Another one I threw in was OTL Louis XVI's father surviving his brush with smallpox. This is still a major work in progress, so feel free to critique as you wish.
Click to expand...

Names of the kids looks well...weird. Habsburg daughters - and particularly Habsburg daughters with a Spanish mom - by that point had the first name "Maria". But it's only the last daughter (who unless that birth year is a typo, and it's supposed to be 1757, is born when Mariana is 57yo) who is named after her grandmother. The OTL names of Maria Theresia's first daughters would probably stick (Maria Elisabeth, Maria Karoline, Maria Christine, Maria Anna) named as they were after her mom (Christine), dad (Karoline), sister (Maria Anna), and mom-in-law (Elisabeth/Isabel).
The names of the boys there's a bit more flexibility, but again, seeing an absence of Karls, Philipps, Leopolds, etc. The only reason Joseph II got his name was because his mom prayed to St. Joseph for a male heir.

Also, no way in Hell that Mariana Vitoria is sending a daughter to France (she blocked three French matches for her daughters, two to the same dauphin you have her daughter marrying and one to the duc d'Orléans); and no way that sans a diplomatic revolution of OTL that the France are taking an Austrian queen.
 
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