List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage

She couldn't marry abroad before he seizes power?

What do you mean by "her cousin of York"? I'm confused
No she can’t, the only way this would happen is if Edward IV lives longer, then all his kids would marry differently, meaning Arthur Tudor and his younger siblings wouldn’t exist as his parents would never marry each other.

Elizabeth of York (b. 1466) was betrothed to Charles VIII of France, but I think this failed even before her father’s death, so maybe she ends up as Maximilian of Austria’s second wife. Cecily (b. 1467) was meant to marry either James IV or the Duke of Ross but nothing came of these plans. And there were also negotiations for Anne (b. 1475) to Philip of Austria and Catherine (b. 1479) to Juan, Prince of Asturias.

Francis II, Duke of Brittany attempted to ally with England by promising his daughter and heiress Anne to young Edward, Prince of Wales. It was Edward IV’s dying that got in the way of all these plans.
 

VVD0D95

Banned
James IV marries Maria of Aragon.

James IV, King of Scots (b.1473) m Maria of Aragon (b.1482) in 1498

Issue:

James, Duke of Rothesay (b.1499)

stillborn son (b.1500: d.1500)

Elizabeth Stewart, Princess of Scotland (b.1502)

John Stewart, Duke of Ross (b.1504)

stillborn son (b.1507: d.1507)

Mary Stewart, Princess of Scotland (b.1510)

Alexander Stewart, Duke of Moray (b.1513)

Catherine Stewart, Princess of Scotland (b.1516)
 

VVD0D95

Banned
Revisiting this old chestnut

Arthur I, King of England and Lord of Ireland (b.1486: d.1535) m Catherine of Aragon (b.1485: d.1536) in 1501

Issue:

Henry of Wales (b.1502: d.1507)

Arthur II, King of England and Lord of Ireland (b.1503)

Elizabeth Tudor, Princess of England (b.1505)

Edmund, Duke of Somerset (b.1507)

Margaret Tudor, Princess of England (b.1510)

stillborn son (b.1513: d.1513)

stillborn daughter (b.1515: d.1515)

Mary Tudor, Princess of England (b.1518)
 
That was in a scenario where Karl was married to a Portuguese infanta and his kids were being born outside the empire (Felipe II in Valladolid, Maria in Madrid, D. Fernando in Toledo, Juana in Madrid). With Mary/Katherine, the kids might be born in the empire instead. Potentially in Burgundy. After all, Mary/Katherine will make little sense acting as regent in Spain à la Isabel of Portugal here
Things would NOT change unless Ferdinand of Aragon is able to secure Aragon and Castile plus Renee of France or Isabella of Portugal to his namesake grandson
 
POD: Henry VI and Margaret of Anjou have more children.

1. Edward of Westminster, Prince of Wales (b. 1453, d. 1471) m. Anne Neville (b. 1456)
2. Isabella (b. 1454) m. Alfonso XII (b. 1453) [1]
3. Henry VII of England (b. 1455) m. Joanna of Aragon (b. 1455)
4. Margaret (b. 1456) m. John II of Portugal (b. 1455)
5. Catherine (b. 1456) m. John, King of Denmark (b. 1455)
6. Charlotte (b. 1457) m. Vladislaus II of Hungary (b. 1455)

[1] Younger brother to IOTL's Isabella I of Castile, one half of the Catholic Monarchs.
 
POD: Henry VI and Margaret of Anjou have more children.

1. Edward of Westminster, Prince of Wales (b. 1453, d. 1471) m. Anne Neville (b. 1456)
2. Isabella (b. 1454) m. Alfonso XII (b. 1453) [1]
3. Henry VII of England (b. 1455) m. Joanna of Aragon (b. 1455)
4. Margaret (b. 1456) m. John II of Portugal (b. 1455)
5. Catherine (b. 1456) m. John, King of Denmark (b. 1455)
6. Charlotte (b. 1457) m. Vladislaus II of Hungary (b. 1455)

[1] Younger brother to IOTL's Isabella I of Castile, one half of the Catholic Monarchs.
I assume that this means that Henry recovers his wits? Or never loses them to start with?
 
Inspired by my "Independent Brittany" thread

Frañsez II, Duke of Brittany (b.1433) 1m: 1455 Marguerite of Brittany (1444-1465[1]); 2m: 1465 Margaret of York[2] (b.1446)

[1m.] Jehan, Comte de Montfort (1463)​
[2m.] Frañsez (1466-1468)​
[2m.] Marguerite (b.1467)​
[2m.] Richard, Comte de Montfort (b.1472)​
[2m.] Cécile (b.1475)​
[2m.] Frañsez (b.1477)​



[1] Our POD: Marguerite of Brittany dies earlier, while Isabelle de Bourbon lives a bit longer. Haven’t thought who Charles the Bold remarries to here.
[2] I’m going with the theory here that Margaret and Charles were simply a bad match/didn’t spend enough time together


@Brita @isabella @VVD0D95 @Jan Olbracht @Zygmunt Stary @RedKing @material_boy @BlueFlowwer
 

VVD0D95

Banned
Inspired by my "Independent Brittany" thread

Frañsez II, Duke of Brittany (b.1433) 1m: 1455 Marguerite of Brittany (1444-1465[1]); 2m: 1465 Margaret of York[2] (b.1446)

[1m.] Jehan, Comte de Montfort (1463)​
[2m.] Frañsez (1466-1468)​
[2m.] Marguerite (b.1467)​
[2m.] Richard, Comte de Montfort (b.1472)​
[2m.] Cécile (b.1475)​
[2m.] Frañsez (b.1477)​



[1] Our POD: Marguerite of Brittany dies earlier, while Isabelle de Bourbon lives a bit longer. Haven’t thought who Charles the Bold remarries to here.
[2] I’m going with the theory here that Margaret and Charles were simply a bad match/didn’t spend enough time together


@Brita @isabella @VVD0D95 @Jan Olbracht @Zygmunt Stary @RedKing @material_boy @BlueFlowwer
Interesting, this would make things very intriguing in France as time progresses and Louis XI dies
 
Oooh very true, hmmm, I guess it depends on a multitude of things like does Edward IV still fall out with Warwick badly enough to see Warwick become a traitor
As I said to @CaptainShadow
Warwick's attitude to the Wydevilles started the previous year - when Katherine Wydeville married the duke of Buckingham. Originally, Warwick had wanted Buckie for Isabel/Anne. Then the Wydevilles came out of nowhere and started snapping up all the available grooms.

Unfortunately there was a strong psychological aspect to Warwick's change in attitude: Warwick's dad joined Richard of York's rebellion because there was difficultyover rival claims to an inheritance with the duke of Somerset. Henry VI sided with Somerset, and Warwick, feeling that the only reason Somerset "won" was because he was "related" to the king, not because he was the best claimant.

Now, see it from Warwick's POV how the Wydevilles have done nothing to merit this advancement beyond marrying the king (there would've been an aspet of humiliation for Warwick in seeing a reminder like that as well). And suddenly the Wydevilles are everywhere. Including in Warwick's own family by marrying his aunt, the duchess of Norfolk. There was a concern at the time, due to the fact that the then duke of Norfolk was 25yo and without a male heir, that should something happen to Norfolk, the Wydevilles would claim the dukedom (and possibly, get it, remember, Wydevilles are the "new" Beauforts).

But there was another angle to it as well. From Warwick's former warder and father-in-law: the 13e earl of Warwick. The man had been captain of Calais. He was removed from that post (without warning or chance to defend himself) by the duke of Bedford. On the word of three men (Lewis John, Richard Bokeland and Richard Wydeville). The biggest "contributor of evidence" was Wydeville, Bedford's chamberlain. 13e Warwick was apparently bitter about being fired and blamed all of it on these three men. So the Wydevilles are already persona non grata to Warwick's wife. Now Warwick himself has been humiliated by them (Liz Wydeville's marriage to Edward caused Warwick some loss of face as a diplomat), and worse is that he's essentially forced to watch as the king he put in place, never held back for, gives stuff to other people and repeatedly deny Warwick's "hard earned" (as he likely saw it) and "well deserved" "rewards". His little brother gets made a "marquess" which means Warwick has to walk behind him, and his nephew is a duke, which means that, with the exception of Buckingham, Norfolk, Suffolk and the royal family, Warwick - the premier earl in England - has to now kowtow to a child. And I don't think Edward would've been above being deliberate in his choice of title for the boy (perhaps getting a good chuckle every time "the earl of Warwick" had to yield to the "duke of Bedford"). In short, I think it was a case of "if it hadn't been this, it would've been that".
 
Inspired by my "Independent Brittany" thread

Frañsez II, Duke of Brittany (b.1433) 1m: 1455 Marguerite of Brittany (1444-1465[1]); 2m: 1465 Margaret of York[2] (b.1446)

[1m.] Jehan, Comte de Montfort (1463)​
[2m.] Frañsez (1466-1468)​
[2m.] Marguerite (b.1467)​
[2m.] Richard, Comte de Montfort (b.1472)​
[2m.] Cécile (b.1475)​
[2m.] Frañsez (b.1477)​



[1] Our POD: Marguerite of Brittany dies earlier, while Isabelle de Bourbon lives a bit longer. Haven’t thought who Charles the Bold remarries to here.
[2] I’m going with the theory here that Margaret and Charles were simply a bad match/didn’t spend enough time together


@Brita @isabella @VVD0D95 @Jan Olbracht @Zygmunt Stary @RedKing @material_boy @BlueFlowwer

Who does Ric of Montfort marry?
 
Inspired by my "Independent Brittany" thread

Frañsez II, Duke of Brittany (b.1433) 1m: 1455 Marguerite of Brittany (1444-1465[1]); 2m: 1465 Margaret of York[2] (b.1446)

[1m.] Jehan, Comte de Montfort (1463)​
[2m.] Frañsez (1466-1468)​
[2m.] Marguerite (b.1467)​
[2m.] Richard, Comte de Montfort (b.1472)​
[2m.] Cécile (b.1475)​
[2m.] Frañsez (b.1477)​



[1] Our POD: Marguerite of Brittany dies earlier, while Isabelle de Bourbon lives a bit longer. Haven’t thought who Charles the Bold remarries to here.
[2] I’m going with the theory here that Margaret and Charles were simply a bad match/didn’t spend enough time together


@Brita @isabella @VVD0D95 @Jan Olbracht @Zygmunt Stary @RedKing @material_boy @BlueFlowwer
Interesting! Even if Frañsez still dies in 1488, Richard's old enough to rule.
I suppose Isabella of Bourbon won't have a second child even if she lives longer. Will Charles the Bold remarry after her death?
 
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