List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage

[Deleted member 161180]

Not really.

This instead is pretty likely

😔I am Sorry for Juana cause i love her.

 

[CaptainShadow]

A rough idea (I have no idea where these kids will end up marrying - I'll admit I arranged the ages deliberately to prevent first cousin marriages)

Isabel, Princess de los Asturias Born Male:

Juan III, King of Aragon [1516-1528], Castile [1504-1528], (1471-1528) m: 1483 Catherine, Queen of Navarre [1483-1517] (1470-1517)

Juan, Prince of Viana (1486-1486)​

Alfonso, King of Spain [1528-1550], King of Navarre [1517-1550] (1487-1550)​

Isabel (1491-1566)​

Juan, Infante of Spain (1492-1530)​

Fernando, Infante of Spain (1494-1543)​

Catalina (1495-1575)​

Maria (1498-1555)​

​

@isabella @VVD0D95 @CaptainShadow @The_Most_Happy @Awkwardvulture @FalconHonour @Jan Olbracht

Margaret Tudor or an ATL daughter of Edward V (Westminster or Middleham. Potentially even OG Westminster)

Surviving Charles Orlando?

Ummm, *insert mistress here*

Dunno. An heiress if there is one or another mistress.

Depends on who's available. Might be Henry VII or Edward V or Manuel or insert lover here.

Nunnery ig.

Catherine of

I like Savoy.

True, if Naples was the only chance for Catherine to get herself a crown Isabella would push for it.

This depends heavily on how much England and thus Europe is effected. If the Yorks are around the marriage game is affected *quite* a bit.

But if all goes as OTL yea.

Like the idea Kellan!

 

[RedKing]

Margaret Tudor

I doubt it, she was only ever considered for the Scots IIRC, just to stop them from supporting another Warbeck. An alt twin or sister of a similar age to her could work though.

This depends heavily on how much England and thus Europe is effected. If the Yorks are around the marriage game is affected *quite* a bit.

True, if it’s Tudor England than the matches there are limited. If it’s Yorkist England then there will be a lot of choice.

 

[isabella]

😔I am Sorry for Juana cause i love her.

Their lives would be happier. Specially Juana’s (as she will marry Manuel instead of Isabella here)

 

[Tmckay]

Can alternate monarchs be fictional or do they have to be priope who really lived?

 

[The_Last_Plantagenet]

Can alternate monarchs be fictional or do they have to be priope who really lived?

They can be fictional to a point, for example, exploring the descendents of say Napoleon, Prince Imperial, but who OTL never had issue

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Mary of Burgundy lives longer (due to butterfly effect House of York keeps the throne-Elizabeth of York is send to France before death of Edward IV, that prevents Gloucester's usurpation).

Mary of Burgundy (1457-1490) m. Maximilian I (1459-1519) Holy Roman Emperor

1) Philip IV (1478-1513) Duke of Burgundy 1490, m. Anne of England (1475-1511)

2) Margaret (1480-1530) m. Richard III (1473-1519) King of England*

3) Francis (1481)

4) Eleanor (1483-1541) m. Vladislaus II (1456-1516) King of Bohemia and Hungary

5) Ernest (1484-1488)

6) John (1486-1551) Holy Roman Emperor 1519, m. Bona Sforza (1494-1560)

7) Kunigunde (1487-1549) m. a) Philibert II (1480-1504) Duke of Savoy b) Sigismund I (1467-1548) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland

8) Rudolf (1490)

* OTL Richard of Shrewsbury

 

[CaptainShadow]

Margaret (1480-1530) m. Richard III (1473-1519) King of England*

Who does Anne of Brittany marry then? If Liz is in France Charles can't get her.

And nice tree.

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Who does Anne of Brittany marry then? If Liz is in France Charles can't get her.

And nice tree.

If Charles and Elizabeth have a son early (mid to late 1480s) then I think that son could marry Anne of Brittany (she'd be 8-10 years older, but Brittany is worth it. Considering the fact, that Louis XI wanted Mary of Burgundy for Charles (who was 13 years younger than her) it would not be something unthinkable

 

[Deleted member 161180]

United Kingdom of England, Scotland and Burgundy:
Edward IV never marries Elizabeth Woodwyle and marries his brother Richard to Mary of Burgundy:
Edward IV "the victorious" r. 1461-1492 m. Isabel of Lorraine
Children:
Isabel 1466-1526 m. Maximilian I, Holy Roman Emperor
Mary 1468-1482
Edward V 1470 m. Anne of Brittany
Cecily b:172 m. Charles VIII of France
John duke of Lorraine b:1474
Anne queen of Scotland b:1476
Richard duke of York b:1478
Catherine queen of France b:1480
Richard Duke of Gloucester m. Mary of Burgundy:
John II king of Burgundy r.1492-1529 b. 1476
Philip duke of Gloucester b. 1478

Edward V m. Anne of Brittany:
Edward 1497-1497
Anne 1500-1560 r. 1523-1553 m. Charles II king of Burgundy
Richard 1502 d. 1506
Isabel 1504-1552

John II king of Burgundy m. Juana the mad:
Charles II king of Burgundy 1528-1558 m. Anne queen of England 1523-1558:
Edward VI & I of the united kingdom of England and Burgundy.


Meanwhile in Scotland:
James IV r. 1493-1526 m. Anne of England:
James V r. 1526-1558 m. Margaret of Austria:
Margaret II r. 1558-1600 "the Great" m. Edward VI & I of England and Burgundy:
Charles I/III of England/Scotland/Burgundy 1589-1625/1600/1625:
Edward VII, I & II 1625-1658
Charles II/IV 1658-1689
Edward VIII & III of the united kingdom of Great Britain and Burgundy 1689-1727.

 

[kasumigenx]

Eleanor of Aquitaine m. Louis VII(a) Henry II of England (b)

1a. Marie b. 1145 m. Ferdinand II of Leon

With issue

2a. Alix b. 1147 m. Malcolm III of Scotland(a) William I of Scotland(b)

With Issue both husbands.

3a. Philippe II of France b. 1147 m. Agnes of Aragon 1152[1]

With issue

3a?a. Louis VIII b. 1173

4b. Matilda b. 1155 m. Henry the Lion of Saxony

With issue

5b. Eleanor b. 1156 m. Alfonso VIII of Castile

With issue

6b. William III b. 1157 d. 1199 m. Berengaria of Navarre

No issue

7b. Geoffrey, King of Jerusalem B. 1158 d. 1186 m. Sybilla of Jerusalem

7b1a. Eleanor I of Jerusalem b. 1184 m. Aimeric of Cyprus

8b. Agnes b. 1160 m. William II of Sicily

With issue

9b. Joanna b. 1165 m. Henry VI of HRE

With issue

10b. John I of England b. 1166 m. Constance of Brittany

With Issue

1. IOTL she is male named Infante Peter and died in infancy.

 

[kasumigenx]

Elizabeth, Countess of Hainaut and Holland[1] b. 1436 m. Albert I, Count of Luxembourg[2] b. 1420 d. 1460(a) Edward IV(b)

1a. Jacqueline I, Countess of Luxembourg b. 1457 m. Vladislaus II of Bohemia and Hungary

2b. Elizabeth of York, Countess of Hainault b. 1466 m. Charles VIII b. 1470

3b. Cecily b. 1469

4b. Edward V b. 1470

5b. Richard, Duke of York b. 1473

6b. Anne b. 1475

7b. Catherine b. 1478

8b. Margaret b. 1480

1. Daughter of Jacqueline of Hainaut.
2. Son of Jacqueline of Hainaut's uncle.

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Trastamara tree:

John II (1398-1435) King of Navarre iure uxoris, m. Blanche of Navarre (1387-1441)

1) Charles IV/I (1421-1480) King of Navarre 1441, King of Aragon 1458, m. a) Agnes of Cleves (1422-1448) b) Catherine of Portugal (1436-1477)

1a) Blanche (1441)​

​

2a) John III/II (1443-1500) King of Castile iure uxoris 1474, King of Aragon and Navarre 1480, m. Blanche of Castile (1446-1498) see below​

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3a) Charles (1446)​

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4b) Charles (1454-1496) m. Mary of Burgundy (1457-1509)​

​

5b) Alfonso (1459)​

​

7b) Catherine (1462-1465)​

2) Joanna (1423-1425)

3) Blanche (1424-1472) m. Henry IV (1425-1474) King of Castile

1) Maria (1444-1449)​

​

2) Blanche (1446-1498) Queen of Castile 1474, m. John III/II(1443-1500) King of Aragon and Navarre​

​

3) Catherine (1448)​

​

4) John (1449)​

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5) Alfonso (1453-1463)​

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6) Eleanor (1456)​

4) Eleanor (1426-1479) m. Henry VI (1421-1475) King of England

1) Henry (1442-1470) Prince of Wales, m. Joanna of Portugal (1439-1475)​

​

2) Edward (1444-1447)​

​

3) John II (1446-1507) King of England 1475, m. Margaret of Scotland (1455-1500)​

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4) Catherine (1449)​

​

5) Edward (1451-1455)​

 

[kasumigenx]

Louis VIII m. Marie of England b. 1192[1](a)

1a. Philip b. 1209 d. 1216

2a. Richard b. 1212 d. 1212

3a. Folques b. 1212 d. 1212

4a. Louis IX b. 1214 m. Margaret of Provence

5a. Robert, Count of Artois b. 1216

6a. Richard b. 1220

7a. Isabella b. 1224


8a. Stephen b. 1225-1227

9a. Charles b. 1229

1. Daughter of Richard I

 

[VVD0D95]

José I of Spain (b.1692: d.1747) m Louisa Maria Theresa Stuart (b.1692: d.1755) in 1708

Issue:

Maria Antoina of Spain (b.1709)

Maximilian I of Spain (b.1710)

Infante Jaime of Spain (b.1711)

stillborn daughter (b.1713: d.1713)

stillborn son (b.1715: d.1715)

Maria Beatrice of Spain (b.1718)

Infante José of Spain (b.1721)

Maria Theresa of Spain (b.1725)

 

[HortenseMancini]

a likelier option is one of Butcher Cumberland's sons

Right, that makes sense...my only problem is, who could cumberland marry so that his son would roughly be of age with augusta? i was initially thinking he could marry therese of brunswick-wolfenbuttel but if george ii wants him to get married shortly after freddie dies then therese is off the table as she would be about 12 years old.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Right, that makes sense...my only problem is, who could cumberland marry so that his son would roughly be of age with augusta? i was initially thinking he could marry therese of brunswick-wolfenbuttel but if george ii wants him to get married shortly after freddie dies then therese is off the table as she would be about 12 years old.

I saw an idea once where Cumberland married OTL Catherine the Great (not sure what was going on in Russia at this point). Although, George II was in negotiations for Cumberland to marry a Catholic princess, either Portugal, Modena or Savoy as a way of getting around the Act of Settlement and thus "splitting" Hannover and Britain. But then the whole 45 business interfered and nobody Catholic wanted to marry their daughter to the Butcher.

 

[Victoria]

Inspired by @RedKing 's thread about Richard III marrying off Elizabeth of York to Manuel of Portugal. Henry Tudor still wins Bosworth and marries Cecily of York. Manuel and Elizabeth recognize Henry as king of England and arrange that his oldest son will marry their daughter. I know this situation might be asb but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Henry VII of England (1557-1511) m. Cecily of York (1469-1505)

1. Margaret (1486-1489)
2. Arthur I of England(1488-1542) m. Beatrice of Portugal (1491-1526)
   1. Arthur II of England (1508-1559) m. Catherine of Austria (1507-1578)
   2. Cecily (1510-1573) m. Alfonso VI of Portugal (1505-1552)
   3. Stillborn daughter (1511)
   4. Henry, Duke of York (1512-1554) m. Anne of Brittany [1] (1515-1581)
   5. Elizabeth (1514-1515)
   6. Edward, Duke of Richmond (1516-1527)
   7. Stillborn son (1517)
   8. Margaret (1519-1567) m. John II of Denmark (1518-1553)
   9. John (1521)
   10. Mary (1523-1557) m. John III of Spain [2] (1520-1586)
   11. Beatrice (1526-1589) m. Charles III of Lorraine [3] (1524-1577)
3. Elizabeth (1490-1538) m. a) James IV of Scotland (1473-1521), b) Henry Stewart, Lord Methven (1495-1532)
   1. A) Elizabeth (1507)
   2. A) James V of Scotland (1508-1543) m. Charlotte of France (1513-1549)
   3. A) Alexander, Duke of Ross (1510-1513)
   4. A) Margaret (1512-1517)
   5. A) Stillborn son (1513)
   6. A) Henry, Duke of Ross (1515-1566) m. Anne Stewart, countess of Auvergne [4] (1516-1562)
   7. A) Stillborn daughter (1518)
   8. A) Arthur (1520-1521)
   9. B) Cecily, Lady Methven (1526-1584) m. James Hamilton, Earl of Arran (1519-1575)
4. Mary (1493-1549) m. Charles VIII of France [5] (1470-1517)
   1. Charles IX of France (1510-1565) m. a) Eleanor of Portugal (1512-1543), b) Anna of Poland (1523-1596)
   2. Mary (1511)
   3. Charlotte (1513-1549) m. James V of Scotland (1508-1543)
   4. Louis (1515-1517)
5. Henry (1495-1496)
6. Edmund, Duke of York (1497-1501)
7. Catherine (1499-1551) m. Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (1500-1558)
   1. Joanna (1518)
   2. Stillborn son (1520)
   3. Philip (1523-1531)
   4. Cecily (1525-1526)
   5. Stillborn daughter (1527)
   6. Stillborn son (1529)
   7. Catherine, Duchess of Burgundy (1532-1574) m. Maximilian II, Holy Roman Emperor (1527-1576)
   8. John (1534-1537)
8. John, Duke of Somerset (1502-1559) m. a) Elizabeth Grey, Viscountess Lisle (1505-1523), b) Anne Boleyn (1507-1568)
   1. A) Henry, Duke of Somerset (1523-1580) m. Catherine Howard (1523-1571)
   2. B) Elizabeth (1528-1535)
   3. B) Stillborn son (1530)
   4. B) Arthur, Earl of Pembroke (1531-1574) m. Catherine Percy, Countess of Northumberland [6] (1529-1582)
   5. B) Edmund (1533)
   6. B) Margaret (1535-1599) m. Thomas Grey, Marquess of Dorset [7] (1534-1585)
   7. B) Stillborn daughter (1538)
   8. B) George (1540-1542)

Manuel I of Portugal (1469-1521) m. Elizabeth of York (1466-1501)

1. John III of Portugal (1486-1544) m. Maria of Aragon (1482-1520)
   1. Isabella (1502-1569) m. Ferdinand VI of Spain (1500-1548)
   2. Manuel (1504-1513)
   3. Alfonso VI of Portugal (1505-1552) m. Cecily of England (1510-1573)
   4. Maria (1507-1509)
   5. Beatriz (1507)
   6. Ferdinand, Duke of Guimarães (1510-1564) m. Isabella of Braganza (1514-1576)
   7. Eleanor (1513-1543) m. Charles IX of France (1510-1565)
   8. Henry, Duke of Guarda (1514-1579) m. Maria, Duchess of Viseu (1521-1588)
   9. Anthony (1516)
2. Isabella (1488-1492)
3. Beatrice (1491-1526) m. Arthur I of England (1488-1542)
4. Duarte, Duke of Beja (1493-1511)
5. Alfonso (1496-1497)
6. Maria (1498)
7. Luis, Duke of Viseu (1501-1557) m. Leonora d'Este [9] (1505-1563)
   1. Maria, Duchess of Viseu (1521-1585) m. Henry, Duke of Guarda (1514-1579)

[1] Daughter of Anne II of Brittany, the only surviving child of Anne of Brittany and Charles VIII.
[2] Son of Isabella of Portugal and Ferdinand VI of Spain.
[3] Son of Antoine, Duke of Lorraine and Eleanor of Austria.
[4] Daughter of John Stewart, Duke of Albany and Anne de la Tour d'Auvergne.
[5] Charles avoids his accident and l lives longer. Anne of Brittany dies in 1505, but her namesake daughter survives.
[6] Daughter of Henry Percy and Mary Talbot.
[7] Son of Henry Grey and Catherine FitzAlan.
[8] Son of John, Prince of Asturias (who lives until 1501 ITTL) and Margaret of Austria.
[9] ATL daughter of Alfonso d'Este and Lucrezia Borgia.

 

[BlueFlowwer]

John III of Portugal (1486-1544) m. Maria of Aragon (1482-1520

I think Infanta Catalina would be a better fit for him, given she's only one year older (b 1485) then Maria who's four years older.

 

[RedKing]

@Victoria excellent tree!

I know this situation might be asb but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not necessarily. It is possible, that Cecily stays in Sanctuary, while Elizabeth is taken out. Unlikely but not at all ASB.