List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage

I've seen Earl of Mar used for younger sons in Scotland. Duke of Albany is another one, if it's available. If not, you could use Moray.
Great tree!
These are the usual titles for the Stewarts, if James’ brothers died as OTL. Albany is still occupied at the moment
 
A work in progress tree for the Hapsburgs in the 'Queen Twice Over' world. Suggestions for Eleanor and Catalina of Austria's kids would be much appreciated (Eleanor's by her second marriage that is).

Philip, Duke of Burgundy (1478-1506) m 1496 Juana of Castile and Aragon

1) Eleanor (b.1498) m. 1518 Manuel I of Portugal (1469 – 1521) (a) m 1523 Antoine, Duke of Lorraine (b.1489) (b)

1a. Charles of Portugal (1520-1521)
2a. Maria of Portugal (b.1521)

2) Charles (b.1500) m. 1522 Marguerite de Angouleme (b.1492)
  • Philip, Prince of Asturias (b.1524) m. Dorothea of Denmark (b.1520)
  • Isabella of Spain (b.1526)
  • Catalina of Spain (b.1527) m. Afonso, Prince of Portugal (b.1531) [1]
  • Juan, Duke of Burgundy (b.1529) m. Anna of Lorraine (b.1522) [2]
3) Isabella (b.1501) m. 1515 Christian II of Denmark (b.1481)
  • John, Crown Prince of Denmark (b.1518) m Anna of Hungary (b.1525)
  • Dorothea of Denmark (b.1520) m. Philip, Prince of Asturias (b.1524)
  • Christina of Denmark (b.1521)
4) Ferdinand (b.1503) m.1521 Anna of Bohemia and Hungary (b.1503)
  • Kids as OTL
5) Maria (b.1505) m. 1515 Louis II of Hungary (1506-1526)
  • Karoly of Hungary (b.1522)
  • Anna of Hungary (b.1525)
6) Catalina (b.1507) m. 1523 Ercole, Duke of Ferrara (b.1508)

[1] ATL eldest son of Joao III of Portugal and Margot of France (b.1516)
[2] Antoine of Lorraine's younger daughter by his first wife, Duchess Renee, who died in childbirth ATL.
 
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Miklos of Hungary (b.1522)

Why would he be named Miklos, no Hungarian royal used that name even, it seems very outlandish, Matthias after Matthias Corvinus is more probable, but I don't think that Louis would even want to honor his family's sworn enemy (Louis's grandmother, Elizabeth of Austria, reportedly insulted Matthias calling him "Wallachian sheperd", "peasant" and "stealer of the crown") by giving his son that name. The probable names include:
Laszlo/Ulaszlo (they are both versions of the same name, which is Ladislaus/Vladislaus) after boy's paternal grandfather, Louis afer himself, Sigismund after his great-uncle Sigismund I the Old, Philip after maternal grandmother or even Charles after maternal uncle, the Emperor (Charles is even more probable than Philip since there were two Charleses on the Hungarian throne before).

m 1523 Antoine, Duke of Lorraine (b.1489) (b)

I'm actually torn apart between wanting Eleanor's son to be duke of Lorraine, but on the other hand Antoine-Eleanor marriage remaining childless and Lorraine falling into Claude of Guises's hands is also interesting perspective.

Catalina (b.1507) m. 1523 Ercole, Duke of Ferrara (b.1508)

Given the fact both of them had children and Catherine a lot of them, I'd expect at least six living children, ideally three boys, three daughters.
 
Why would he be named Miklos, no Hungarian royal used that name even, it seems very outlandish, Matthias after Matthias Corvinus is more probable, but I don't think that Louis would even want to honor his family's sworn enemy (Louis's grandmother, Elizabeth of Austria, reportedly insulted Matthias calling him "Wallachian sheperd", "peasant" and "stealer of the crown") by giving his son that name. The probable names include:
Laszlo/Ulaszlo (they are both versions of the same name, which is Ladislaus/Vladislaus) after boy's paternal grandfather, Louis afer himself, Sigismund after his great-uncle Sigismund I the Old, Philip after maternal grandmother or even Charles after maternal uncle, the Emperor (Charles is even more probable than Philip since there were two Charleses on the Hungarian throne before).
I was trying to find the Hungarian version of Nicholas, thinking they would have prayed to St Nicholas of Bari for a child, not being sure that Louis would be strong enough to father one, and thence named the child after him, but I could go for something else. Anyone know what Charles is in Hungarian?
 
I was trying to find the Hungarian version of Nicholas, thinking they would have prayed to St Nicholas of Bari for a child, not being sure that Louis would be strong enough to father one, and thence named the child after him, but I could go for something else. Anyone know what Charles is in Hungarian?

Charles is Karoly in Hungarian and praying for a child to Saint not necessarily equals naming the child after him and Mary had some Lutheran sympathies.
Anyways, I think she'd remarry here to John Zapolya in order to protect her son's inheritance.
And Louis likely had no problem with fertility, he had fathered a bastard son.
 
I'm actually torn apart between wanting Eleanor's son to be duke of Lorraine, but on the other hand Antoine-Eleanor marriage remaining childless and Lorraine falling into Claude of Guises's hands is also interesting perspective.



Given the fact both of them had children and Catherine a lot of them, I'd expect at least six living children, ideally three boys, three daughters.
Karoly it is! I'll keep thinking about Catherine and Ferarra's kids, and maybe Eleanor will just have to be a stepmother to Lorraine's three earlier kids.
 
Mary Plantagenet, b. 1467

Cecily Plantagenet, b. 1469

Here's my current list of potential grooms for Mary and Cecily:
John Oldenburg, King of Denmark, Norway, and Sweden​
Francis Phoebus de Foix, King of Navarre​
Gian Galeazzo Sforza, Duke of Milan​
Any thoughts, feedback?
 
Here's my current list of potential grooms for Mary and Cecily:
John Oldenburg, King of Denmark, Norway, and Sweden​
Francis Phoebus de Foix, King of Navarre​
Gian Galeazzo Sforza, Duke of Milan​
Any thoughts, feedback?
John to Mary, and Francis to Cecily makes sense.

Sforza's probably out, Edward did ditch his mom after all.
 
Here's my current list of potential grooms for Mary and Cecily:
John Oldenburg, King of Denmark, Norway, and Sweden​
Francis Phoebus de Foix, King of Navarre​
Gian Galeazzo Sforza, Duke of Milan​
Any thoughts, feedback?
Mary in Denmark, Cecily in Navarre. Gian Galeazzo was engaged to his cousin Isabella of Naples when he was 10 and that match made much more sense than anyone else,
 
Mary for Denmark would be my guess.
Milan unlikely - Francis of Navarre is an option (especially if it happens at the same time as Elizabeth's marriage to the dauphin is going through as Francis is Louis XI's nephew) - gives Francis both French and English support.
 
POD: Barbara Zapolya dies in 1513, thus Sigismund the (not yet) Old is widowed by the time of Congress of Vienna in 1515 and it is then, when his marriage to Eleanor Habsburg is decided (IOTL Max proposed her to Sigismund, but Charles opposed, ITTL Charles is not yet King of Spain by the time proposition is made and is less likely to oppose grandfather's decision).​
Eleanor of Austria (1498-1558) m. Sigismund I (1467-1548) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland​
1) Anna (1516-1568) m. Francis I (1494-1547) King of France​
2) Sigismund II (1518-1567) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1548, m. Elizabeth of Austria (1526-1578)​
3) Elizabeth (1519)​
4) Vladislaus (1521-1522)​
5) Sophia (1524-1588) m. Charles Victor (1525-1577) Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel​
6) Albert II (1527-1592) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1567, m. Maria Anna of Bavaria (1551-1608)​
Next generation under construction.​
 
Philip, Prince of Asturias (b.1524) m. Dorothea of Denmark (b.1520)
I think this Philip is more likely to marry Maria of Portugal (b. 1521) than Dorothea.
John, Crown Prince of Denmark (b.1518) m Anna of Hungary (b.1525)
I think Anna is more likely to wed the son of Sigismund the Old and Bona Sforza.
6) Catalina (b.1507) m. 1523 Ercole, Duke of Ferrara (b.1508)
Ferrara is too low for Catalina tbh. I would expect a French proxy bride in Ferrara and Catalina can marry Charles of Savoy.
 
I think this Philip is more likely to marry Maria of Portugal (b. 1521) than Dorothea.

I think Anna is more likely to wed the son of Sigismund the Old and Bona Sforza.

Ferrara is too low for Catalina tbh. I would expect a French proxy bride in Ferrara and Catalina can marry Charles of Savoy.
France and Ferrara have fallen out big time. They don't want a French bride, even supposing I had a French bride of a suitable age to hand.

But yes, I could swap Anna out for an English/Low Countries bride and send her to Poland, and the Phillip/Maria match does make sense.
 
POD: Barbara Zapolya dies in 1513, thus Sigismund the (not yet) Old is widowed by the time of Congress of Vienna in 1515 and it is then, when his marriage to Eleanor Habsburg is decided (IOTL Max proposed her to Sigismund, but Charles opposed, ITTL Charles is not yet King of Spain by the time proposition is made and is less likely to oppose grandfather's decision).

Next generation added:
Eleanor of Austria (1498-1558) m. Sigismund I (1467-1548) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland
1) Anna (1516-1568) m. Francis I (1494-1547) King of France

1) John (1534-1586) Duke of Anjou, m. Henriette of Cleves (1542-1601)​
2) Sigismund II (1518-1567) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1548, m. Elizabeth of Austria (1526-1578)
3) Elizabeth (1519)
4) Vladislaus (1521-1522)
5) Sophia (1524-1588) m. Charles Victor (1525-1577) Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel

1) Charles Henry (1548-1551)​
2) Sigismund (1550-1604) Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel, m. Sibylle of Jülich-Cleves Berg (1557-1627)​
3) Sophia (1552-1555)​
4) Eleanor (1553-1607) m. Ferdinand (1529-1595) Archduke of Tyrol​
6) Albert II (1527-1592) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1567, m. Maria Anna of Bavaria (1551-1608)

1) Hedwig (1570-1572)​
2) Sigismund III (1572-1631) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1595, m. Sophia of Austria-Tyrol* (1578-1640)​
3) Vladislaus (1574)​
4) Albert (1575-1601)​
5) Alexander (1577-1633) Archbishop of Gniezno, Cardinal​
6) Anna (1580)​
7) Casimir (1582-1584)​
* Daughter of Archduke Ferdinand and Eleanor of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel
 
Charles is Karoly in Hungarian and praying for a child to Saint not necessarily equals naming the child after him and Mary had some Lutheran sympathies.
It doesn't. But Isabel Clara Eugenia was named after St. Eugenius and St. Claire of Assisi afterher mother prayed to them for a successful pregnancy. Another half-Habsburg princess at the time was named after her mom cried out to said saint while giving birth (think it was Anna of Austria with one of Felipe II's sons).

Considering that Miklos/Nicolas has five feast/name days (21 March, 10 September, 25 September, 13 November and 6 December). The kid could easily be born on one of them.

Saint Nicolas of Mysa (Santa Claus) is on December 6
Saint Nicolas of Tolentino is September 10
Saint Nicolas I the Great is November 13
Saint (Ni)Colette de Corbie on March 6. While Colette was only canonized in the 19th century had a strong following in the Low Countries. With such famous followers as BOTH Margaret of York AND Mary of Burgundy, BOTH of whom prayed to her for a child. Colette is the patron saint of childless women, women who wish to conceive and expectant mothers. Several of Colette's miracles performed in her lifetime had to do with childbirth/newborns.
It sounds weird to us simply because there never WAS a "King Miklos" OTL.

As to Mary being Lutheran sympathizer, she still dismissed her chaplain (a supporter of Luther) when the pope excommunicated Luther.
 
It doesn't. But Isabel Clara Eugenia was named after St. Eugenius and St. Claire of Assisi afterher mother prayed to them for a successful pregnancy. Another half-Habsburg princess at the time was named after her mom cried out to said saint while giving birth (think it was Anna of Austria with one of Felipe II's sons).

Considering that Miklos/Nicolas has five feast/name days (21 March, 10 September, 25 September, 13 November and 6 December). The kid could easily be born on one of them.

Saint Nicolas of Mysa (Santa Claus) is on December 6
Saint Nicolas of Tolentino is September 10
Saint Nicolas I the Great is November 13
Saint (Ni)Colette de Corbie on March 6. While Colette was only canonized in the 19th century had a strong following in the Low Countries. With such famous followers as BOTH Margaret of York AND Mary of Burgundy, BOTH of whom prayed to her for a child. Colette is the patron saint of childless women, women who wish to conceive and expectant mothers. Several of Colette's miracles performed in her lifetime had to do with childbirth/newborns.
It sounds weird to us simply because there never WAS a "King Miklos" OTL.

As to Mary being Lutheran sympathizer, she still dismissed her chaplain (a supporter of Luther) when the pope excommunicated Luther.

Still neither Clara nor Eugenia were Isabel's first names.
 
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