List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage

[RedKing]

I don't think Henry would get away with executing a foreign princess.

True actually, Francis would certainly not take that well, I'll go change the bio then.

 

[JaniceTheMannis]

In a world where Jeanne of Navarre's younger brother lives to adulthood and Henry and Anne Boleyn have quadruplets (Yes, I decided to play along too, at least to the extent of plotting out a basic family tree...)

Henry VIII of England m 1533 Anne Boleyn

1) Princess Elizabeth (b. 1 August 1533) m. Frederick II of Denmark (b. 1 July 1534)

2) Edward, Prince of Wales (b. 1 August 1533) m. 1548 Jeanne of Navarre (b. 16 November 1528)
- Prince Henry of Wales (b.1550)
- Lady Anne of Wales (b.1552)
- Lady Margaret of Wales (1553-1554)
- Lady Joan of Wales (b.1555)
- Lord Edward of Wales (1556-1562)
-Lord George of Wales (b. 1558)

3) George, Duke of York and Pembroke (1 August 1533) m. Lady Jane Grey (b. 12. Oct 1537)

4) Lady Anne (b. 1 August 1533) m. James Hamilton, 3rd Earl of Arran (b. 1537)

Notes: May seem odd choices of marital partners, but I was trying to find French proxies for at least some of the children, given Anne's pro-French attitudes. And I thought a Scottish alliance made sense, but Mary Queen of Scots was probably too young for Edward or George, so Lady Anne to James Hamilton it was...

Since Jane Grey was named after Queen Jane Seymour, she would probably be "Anne Grey" now, weird as that is!

 

[FalconHonour]

Since Jane Grey was named after Queen Jane Seymour, she would probably be "Anne Grey" now, weird as that is!

Do you know, I didn't even think of that. But yes. Anne or Elizabeth, perhaps...

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Marie Louise Gonzaga predeceased Władysław IV. Thus her OTL second husband Jan Kazimierz marries Isabella Clara of Austria instead (that match was considered IOTL).

Jan II Kazimierz (1609-1672) King of Poland 1648, m. Isabella Clara of Austria (1629-1685)

1) Konstancja Izabela (1649-1674) m. Sigismund Franz (1630-1665) Archduke of Tyrol

1) Sigismund Johann (1666-1718) Archduke of Tyrol 1666, m. a) Maria Antonia of Austria (1669-1692) b) Hedwig Elisabeth Amalia of Palatinate (1673-1722)​

2) Jan III Zygmunt (1651-1705) King of Poland 1672, m. Eleonore of Austria (1653-1697)

1) Izabela Eleonora (1674-1721) m. Maximilian II Emanuel (1662-1726) Elector of Bavaria​

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2) Jan Kazimierz (1675-1678)​

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3) Aleksander II (1677-1741) King of Poland 1705, m. Maria Magdalena of Austria (1789-1743)​

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4) Maria Anna (1679)​

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5) Maria Leopoldyna (1680-1684)​

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6) Władysław (1683-1711)​

3) Władysław (1653-1658)

4) Anna Katarzyna (1656)

5) Kazimierz Leopold (1657-1661)

6) Aleksander Karol (1659-1711) Cardinal

7) Anna Maria (1662-1701) m. Karl III Philipp (1661-1642) Elector Palatine

1) Karl Johann (1684-1685)​

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2) Johann Philipp (1686)​

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3) Anna Elisabeth (1688-1750) m. Karl VI (1685-1740) Holy Roman Emperor​

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4) Karl IV Sigismund (1691-1750) Elector Palatine 1742, m. Maria Maximiliana of Bavaria* (1698-1763)​

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* Daughter of Maximilian II Emanuel and Izabela Eleonora of Poland

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[JaniceTheMannis]

Do you know, I didn't even think of that. But yes. Anne or Elizabeth, perhaps...

Isn't it weird how many ripple-effect things would change from just one choice? Like how if Anne Boleyn had had a son and lived, would Mary Queen of Scots exist? Since Marie de Guise was very reluctant to marry James V of Scotland and was dragging out negotiations for a while but accepted immediately when Henry "Wife Killer" Tudor started hankering after her.

 

[Cate13]

Isn't it weird how many ripple-effect things would change from just one choice? Like how if Anne Boleyn had had a son and lived, would Mary Queen of Scots exist? Since Marie de Guise was very reluctant to marry James V of Scotland and was dragging out negotiations for a while but accepted immediately when Henry "Wife Killer" Tudor started hankering after her.

That's fascinating! Who would James V have married if not Marie de Guise?

 

[kasumigenx]

Andrea Maria Habsburg-Lothringen b. 1953[1] m. Charles, Prince of Wales b. 1948(a)
1a. Prince William b. 1977
2a. Prince Harry b. 1980
3a. Princess Sophia b. 1981

1. Converts to Anglicanism

Prince Philip chooses a dynastic marriage for Prince Charles, he chooses a Jacobite Princess, closer to age as Prince Charles.

 

[JaniceTheMannis]

That's fascinating! Who would James V have married if not Marie de Guise?

That's more murky, but I'll do my best! After Princess Madeline died, Francis I wanted to arrange another French bride for him. Marie de Guise was the top choice since she was from a very powerful, Catholic family and had proven her fertility with two sons, but Marie was understandably reluctant to live in Scotland (which, to her, was the boonies) and leave her son. She was hemming and hawing and trying to delay the match til James lost interest, but she realized James is an infinitely better match than Henry VIII (at least James is young and handsome and less likely to kill her) and decided to take the lesser of two evils.

I listed the potential brides in order of most likely to least likely.

Marie's sisters Louise and Renee were available (Renee became a nun, but not til later). Louise was renowned for her beauty, so probably her.

Marie of Vendome was seriously considered as James' bride before he insisted on marrying a princess. Francis I asked James to marry her instead since Madeline was so sickly. She's from a powerful family and still unmarried. She died pretty soon but after James married Marie de Guise, so she's still an option.

Isabella of Navarre is Marguerite's sister-in-law, and Marguerite suggested her. She was still unmarried by this time.

Anna of Lorraine is the 16-year-old daughter of Antoine the Good.

Christina of Denmark is an option. Marguerite of Navarre, Francis I's sister, suggested her, but this is unlikely since she's the Emperor's niece and Francis would prefer a French lady.

 

[Kynan]

Scenario: Anne Boleyn falls pregnant around March of 1536 and has a son.

Henry VIII, King of England and Ireland (b.1491: d.1547) m. Catherine, Infanta of Aragon and Castile (b.1485: d.1536) (a), Anne Boleyn (b.1501/1507: d.1555) (b)

1a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1510)​

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2a) Henry Tudor, Prince of Wales (b.1511: d.1511)​

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3a) Henry Tudor, Prince of Wales (b.1513: d.1513)​

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4a) Henry Tudor, Prince of Wales (b.1515: d.1515)​

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5a) Mary Tudor (b.1516: d.1556)​

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6a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1518)​

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7b) Elizabeth Tudor, Princess of England and Ireland (b.1533: d.1610) m. William, Duke of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (b.1516: d.1592) (a)​

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1a) Anne of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (b.1547)​

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2a) Maria of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (b.1549: d.1550)​

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3a) William II, Duke of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (b.1553)​

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4a) Sybille of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (b.1556)​

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5a) John of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (b.1558: d.1560)​

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6a) Frederick of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (b.1561)​

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7a) Cecilia of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (b.1564)​

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8b) Stillborn Son (c.1534)​

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9b) Miscarriage (c.1536)​

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10b) Edward VI, King of England and Ireland (b.1536: d.1591) m. Elisabeth de Valois, Princess of France (b.1545: d.1564) (a), Renata of Lorraine (b.1544: d.1602) (a)​

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1a) Henry IX, King of England and Ireland (b.1562)​

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2a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1563)​

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3a) Miscarriage (c.1564)​

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4b) Anne, Princess of England and Ireland (b.1569)​

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5b) Edward Tudor, Duke of York (b.1572)​

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6b) Thomas Tudor, Duke of Bedford (b.1574)​

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7b) Edmund Tudor, Prince of England and Ireland (b.1575: d.1577)​

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8b) Catherine Tudor, Princess of England and Ireland (b.1579)​

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9b) Joan Tudor, Princess of England and Ireland (b.1581: d.1588)​

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10b) Francis Tudor, Duke of Pembroke (b.1582)​

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11b) Margaret Tudor, Princess of England and Ireland (b.1583: d.1583)​

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12b) Cecily Tudor, Princess of England and Ireland (b.1585)​

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13b) George Tudor, Duke of Richmond (b.1587)​

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11b) Stillborn Son (c.1538)​

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12b) Margaret Tudor, Princess of England and Ireland (b.1539: d.1541)​

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13b) Miscarriage (c.1540)​

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14b) Stillborn Son (c.1542)​

 

[kasumigenx]

Elizabeth of Luxembourg m. Albert III of Germany(a) Vladislaus III of Poland and Hungary(b)
1a. Anne of Austria b. 1432 m. William III of Saxony
2a. Elizabeth of Austria b. 1438 m. Charles I of Burgundy
3a. Ladislaus of Austria, King of Bohemia and Hungary b. 1440 d. 1457 b. Magdalene of France
5b. Vladislaus Jagiellon, King of Poland and Hungary b. 1446 m. Magdalene of France
6b. Barbara Jagiellon b. 1448 m. Alfonso II of Naples

 

[kasumigenx]

Eleanor of France b. 1203[1] m. Raymond IV of Provence
1a. Jofre I of Aragon b. 1220 m. Maria I of Aragon b. 1229
2a. Margaret of Provence b. 1221 m. Edward I of England
3a. Constance of Provence b. 1223
4a. Alix of Provence b. 1225
5a. Sanchia of Provence b. 1229
1. Daughter of Eleanor of Brittany and Louis VIII

 

[isabella]

An alternate six for Henry:


King Henry VIII (1491-1547), reigned from 1509, M. Eleanor of Austria (1498-1536) [1] in 1512, Elizabeth Blount (1502-1536) [2] in 1530, Anne Boleyn (1507-1537) [3] in 1536, Margot of Alencon (1517-1543) [4] in 1538, Elizabeth Boleyn (1510-1545) [5] in 1543 and Katherine Manners (1528-1556) [6], had issue

With Eleanor of Austria:

1. Princess Elizabeth, later Queen Elizabeth I (1516-1556), reigned from 1553 never married
2. Princess Mary (1519-1555) M. Duarte, Duke Guimaraes (1515-1559), had no surviving issue

With Elizabeth Blount:

3. Henry Fitzroy, later Henry Tudor, Prince of Wales (1521-1543) M. Mary Howard (1519-1543), had no issue
4. Lady Margaret Fitzroy, later Princess Margaret (1522-1540)
5. Prince Arthur (1531-1536)

With Anne Boleyn:

6. King Henry IX "The Devote" (1537-1553), never married

With Margot of Alencon:

7. Princess Katherine, later Queen Katherine (1539-1608), reigned from 1556 M. Henry Percy, Duke of Northumberland (1532-1589), had issue

7 (A). Princess Margaret Percy (1559-1610) M. Holy Roman Emperor Matthias (1557-1619)
7 (B). King Henry X (1561-1621) M. Christina of Lorraine (1565-1637)
7 (C). Prince Francis, Duke of York (1564-1610) M. Penelope Blount (1563-1609)

With Elizabeth Boleyn:

N/A

With Katherine Mannes:

N/A


...

[1] Divorced in 1530 after failing to give Henry a son, Henry marries long time lover Elizabeth Blount. Elizabeth I doesn't marry due to taking a vow of celibacy and so all hopes on her line lies on her sister who does not have any issue.
[2] A mistress of Henry VIII since 1519, has two children by the time of their marriage who are legitimised. Henry VIII still splits with the Church. Blount dies of a flu. Margaret dies in a horse riding accident and Fitzroy dies of the sweat.
[3]. Still does her magic, they have one son named Henry, she dies in childbirth like Jane Seymour in otl.
[4] An alt daughter of Marguerite of Angouleme and the Duke of Alencon, Margot converts but falls out of favour and is imprisoned and later dies under suspicious circumstances. Katherine gets the Mary treatment but becomes this scenario's equivalent to Elizabeth I, but with issue. Katherine I is Protestant, but has Catholic sympathies and wants peace with the Catholics in Europe, hence the marriages.
[5] Alt daughter of Tom Boleyn and Elizabeth Howard, Henry VIII marries her due to her resemblance to Anne but Elizabeth cheats on him and so is beheaded.
[6] An OTL noblewoman, she survives.

What happens to Catherine of Aragon? She dies with Arthur.

Do not work like that. Fitzroy would never become King, being a bastard, Eleanor would NOT be divorced, specially not in that year and that way and if Henry had married her is likely who she would have a much better childbirth history than her aunt

 

[RedKing]

Do not work like that. Fitzroy would never become King, being a bastard, Eleanor would NOT be divorced, specially not in that year and that way and if Henry had married her is likely who she would have a much better childbirth history than her aunt

I suppose, I might remake that tree. I should’ve mentioned more detail such as a hard pregnancy leading to Eleanor not being able to bare more children etc. Also since it’s Henry VIII’s church I imagine he would legitimise Henry and Margaret Fitzroy.

 

[isabella]

I suppose, I might remake that tree. I should’ve mentioned more detail such as a hard pregnancy leading to Eleanor not being able to bare more children etc. Also since it’s Henry VIII’s church I imagine he would legitimise Henry and Margaret Fitzroy.

He would not as he had not done it in OTL. Also split from the church will not happen here as Eleanor is unlikely to put up the fight of Catherine and more likely to be replaced by another royal bride, likely from her own family. And Anne Boleyn would be long married at this point...

 

[RedKing]

He would not as he had not done it in OTL. Also split from the church will not happen here as Eleanor is unlikely to put up the fight of Catherine and more likely to be replaced by another royal bride, likely from her own family. And Anne Boleyn would be long married at this point...

Yes, but would Charles let Henry divorce Eleanor? There are now good candidates now that Maria of Viseu, has been butterflied. As for Anne Boleyn true. I will probably remake this tree

 

[isabella]

Yes, but would Charles let Henry divorce Eleanor? There are now good candidates now that Maria of Viseu, has been butterflied. As for Anne Boleyn true. I will probably remake this tree

If Eleanor is willing (and she would be likely tormented by her inability to give an heir to Henry) Karl has NO right to intervene. Also is likely who ATL Charles V will have daughters of the right age as he will have married Mary Tudor the Elder (and maybe remarried to Isabella of Portugal, if Mary died in the second half of 1520s). In alternative Charles would still have Dorothea and Christine of Denmark to offer (or would try to use Isabella of Poland as proxy)

 

[RedKing]

If Eleanor is willing (and she would be likely tormented by her inability to give an heir to Henry) Karl has NO right to intervene. Also is likely who ATL Charles V will have daughters of the right age as he will have married Mary Tudor the Elder (and maybe remarried to Isabella of Portugal, if Mary died in the second half of 1520s). In alternative Charles would still have Dorothea and Christine of Denmark to offer (or would try to use Isabella of Poland as proxy

I see, a Princess Christine of England would’ve been cool.

 

[Zygmunt Stary]

(or would try to use Isabella of Poland as proxy)

That would be interesting, especially if Isabella's brother kicks the bucket childlessly as IOTL, if Henry had more than one sons by Isabella, it's likely that second one would be adopted by his uncle and would become his heir, Tudor Poland-Lithuania would be interesting to see.

 

[RedKing]

Tudor Poland-Lithuania would be interesting to see.

That would be awesome!

 

[Zygmunt Stary]

That would be awesome!

Oh, definitely, especially as TTL me would live in state (probably) ruled by descendants of that second son.