List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage

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Jonathan

Jonathan

VVD0D95 said:
Oh interesting, and perhaps producing kids with her as well? Thus meaning his son Carlos marries Elisabeth de Valois here
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Possibly producing children but if not, it isn’t an issue. Keeping Elizabeth off the market is Philip’s only way of making sure his son isn’t overthrown.
VVD0D95 said:
Think Edward is probably out given how the last King Edward treated Mary, Henry might happen, but may not.
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I doubt Mary would name her son after her dad, who divorced her mum and made her an illegitimate child.
An alternative name could be Arthur, cementing the legend that he is God’s saviour of the Brits

Other names used by Philip:
- Ferdinand
- Laurence
- Diego
- Félix

Although it’s not unusual for medieval monarchs to use the same name on more than one child, for example James III of Scotland named two of his sons James.
You could have Charles/Carlos the Spanish and Charles the English or even their titles Carlos, Prince of Asturias and Charles, Prince of Wales to differentiate between the brothers
 
Awkwardvulture

Awkwardvulture

What about John? It wasn't the most popular name for English monarchs for obvious reasons, but Phillip had a younger brother named John, while it was also the name of Mary's uncle... He could also possibly be named Phillip after his father...
 

VVD0D95

Banned
Jonathan said:
Possibly producing children but if not, it isn’t an issue. Keeping Elizabeth off the market is Philip’s only way of making sure his son isn’t overthrown.

I doubt Mary would name her son after her dad, who divorced her mum and made her an illegitimate child.
An alternative name could be Arthur, cementing the legend that he is God’s saviour of the Brits

Other names used by Philip:
- Ferdinand
- Laurence
- Diego
- Félix

Although it’s not unusual for medieval monarchs to use the same name on more than one child, for example James III of Scotland named two of his sons James.
You could have Charles/Carlos the Spanish and Charles the English or even their titles Carlos, Prince of Asturias and Charles, Prince of Wales to differentiate between the brothers
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Could she be placed in a convent or is that too late to do much?

philip abd Arthur work for me
Awkwardvulture said:
What about John? It wasn't the most popular name for English monarchs for obvious reasons, but Phillip had a younger brother named John, while it was also the name of Mary's uncle... He could also possibly be named Phillip after his father...
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oh reclaiming the name John would be good
 

Kellan Sullivan

Tmckay said:
This is in my Simpsons-Verse TL:

Queen Elizabeth II/King George XI-1952-1995

Queen James V/Queen Anne III-1995-2001

King William V/Queen Mary II-2001-2027

Queen Victoria II/King Henry XII-2027-2047

Queen Louise I/King Edward VII-2047-2053

Queen Charlotte II/King Harrison II-2053-2059

Queen Margaret/King Ronald V-2059-2065

King Ronald V(after his wife's passing) 2065-2077

Queen Harriett II/King James XX-2077-2080

King Howard II/Queen Sophia II-2080-2091

King Malcom I-2091-2098

Queen Arabella/King George XV-2098-2115
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Huh?
 

isabella

Victoria said:
POD: The children of Henry VII and Elizabeth of York who died young live to adulthood and the ones that lived to adulthood die young.

Henry VII of England (1457-1509) m. Elizabeth of York (1466-1503)
  1. Arthur I of England(1586-1527) m. Catherine of Aragon (1485-1539)
    1. Henry VIII of England (1503-1559) m. Isabella of Portugal (1503-1551)
    2. Elizabeth (1504-1506)
    3. Stillborn son (1506)
    4. Margaret (1509-1568) m. John III of Portugal (1502-1557)
    5. Edward (1511)
    6. John, duke of York (1513-1527)
    7. Stillborn daughter (1516)
    8. Mary (1518-1559) m. Henry II of France (1519-1568)
  2. Margaret (1489-1492)
  3. Henry, duke of York (1491-1501)
  4. Elizabeth(1492-1540) m. James IV of Scotland (1473-1513)
    1. Elizabeth (1508-1561) m. Luis, duke of Beja (1506-1555)
    2. James V of Scotland (1510-1548) m. Isabella of Navarre (1512-1565)
    3. Alexander, duke of Ross (1511-1563) m. Anne Tudor of Somerset, countess of Auvergne (1517-1562)
    4. Margaret (1513)
  5. Mary (1496-1501)
  6. Edmund, duke of Somerset(1498-1555) m. a) Madeleine de la Tour d'Auvergne (1496-1523), b) Jane Parker (1505-1564)
    1. a) Anne, countess of Auvergne (1517-1562) m. Alexander, duke of Ross (1511-1563)
    2. a) Arthur (1520-1521)
    3. a) Catherine (1522-1525)
    4. b) Henry (1528-1541)
    5. b) Elizabeth (1529-1592) m. Henry Stafford, duke of Buckingham [1] (1526-1565)
    6. b) Alice (1531-1578) m. Thomas Percy, earl of Northumberland [2] (1528-1570)
    7. b) Edmund (1533)
    8. b) William III of England (1535-1579) m. Eleanor I of England [3] (1539-1598)
  7. Catherine(1503-1549) m. Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (1500-1558)
    1. Juana (1520-1533)
    2. Felipe (1521)
    3. María (1523-1568) m. Manuel II of Portugal [4] (1520-1584)
    4. Catalina (1525-1577) m. a) Arthur, Prince of Wales [5] (1526-1551), b) Sigismund II Augustus of Poland (1520-1572)
    5. Carlos II of Spain (1527-1582) m. Catherine of Portugal [6] (1529-1588)
    6. Stillborn son (1528)
    7. Isabel (1530-1578) m. Maximilian II, Holy Roman Emperor (1527-1581)
    8. Enrique (1532-1536)
    9. Stillborn daughter (1535)
    10. Fernando, duke of Burgundy (1538-1601) m. a) Barbara of Austria (1538-1572), b) Catherine Tudor [7] (1557-1622)

[1] The duke of Buckingham doesn't rebel against Arthur, so the Stafford family keeps the title.
[2] Son of Henry Percy and Anne Boleyn
[3] Only surviving child of Henry VIII and Isabella of Portugal.
[4] Son of John III of Portugal and his first wife Eleanor of Austria, who died young ITTL.
[5] Son of Henry VIII and Isabella of Portugal. He dies childless, which leads to Henry VIII arranging the marriage of William and Eleanor and acknowledging them as his heirs.
[6] Daughter of John III of Portugal and his second wife Margaret Tudor.
[7] Daughter of William III and Eleanor I.

@isabella Is this better?
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Much better
 
RedKing

RedKing

Unrealistic? Yes. Fun? Absolutely:


Queen Mary I (1516-1562), reigned from 1553 M. King Philip II of Spain (1527-1598) reigned from 1556, had issue

1. Queen Catherine I of England and the Netherlands (1555-1612) M. King Francis III of France [1] (1555-1609), reigned from 1589, had issue

1 (A). King Henry IX Of England, I of the Netherlands and IV of France (1577-1634)
1 (B). Prince Philippe, Duke of York and Orleans (1579-1618)
1 (C). Princess Mary (1581-1621)
1 (D). Princess Catherine (1581-1629)


....

[1] OTL Francis of Anjou.

I know this would never happen but I decided to do it anyways as this Anglo-French-Dutch Empire would be a good counterbalance to the Habsburgs. Also the idea of Philip raging at this is hilarious.
 

vandevere

RedKing said:
Unrealistic? Yes. Fun? Absolutely:


Queen Mary I (1516-1562), reigned from 1553 M. King Philip II of Spain (1527-1598) reigned from 1556, had issue

1. Queen Catherine I of England and the Netherlands (1555-1612) M. King Francis III of France [1] (1555-1609), reigned from 1589, had issue

1 (A). King Henry IX Of England, I of the Netherlands and IV of France (1577-1634)
1 (B). Prince Philippe, Duke of York and Orleans (1579-1618)
1 (C). Princess Mary (1581-1621)
1 (D). Princess Catherine (1581-1629)


....

[1] OTL Francis of Anjou.

I know this would never happen but I decided to do it anyways as this Anglo-French-Dutch Empire would be a good counterbalance to the Habsburgs. Also the idea of Philip raging at this is hilarious.
Click to expand...
I suppose this is one way to make a King of England also King of France.
 

Jan Olbracht

Edward VI dies in 1550, Mary Tudor marries earlier and has a son with Philip II.

Philip II (1527-1598) Duke of Burgundy, King of Spain, King of England iure uxoris, m. a) Maria Manuela of Portugal (1527-1545) b) Mary of England (1516-1560) c) Anna of Austria (1549-1580)

1a) Charles (1545-1568) Prince of Asturias, m. Elizabeth of France (1545-1597)
​
1) Isabella (1564-1569)​
​
2) Maria I (1566-1609) Queen of Spain 1598, m. Ferdinand VI (1570-1606) see below​

2a) Henry IX (1552-1599) Duke of Burgundy, King of England 1560, m. Elizabeth of Austria (1554-1592)

1) Mary (1574-1602) m. John IV (1575-1627) King of Portugal*​
​
2) Catherine (1576-1629) m. Henry II (1563-1624) Duke of Lorraine​
​
3) Henry (1577-1579)​
​
4) Philip II (1579-1633) Duke of Burgundy, King of England 1599, m. a) Margaret of Austria (1584-1611) b) Anna of Spain (1597-1649) see below​
​
5) Henry (1582)​

3c) Ferdinand VI (1570-1606) King of Spain (with Maria) m. Maria I (1566-1609) Queen of Spain

1) Isabella (1588-1642) m. John IV (1575-1627) King of Portugal (second wife)​
​
2) Maria (1590)​
​
3) Philip II (1591-1650) King of Spain 1609, m. Joanna of Portugal (1596-1642)**​
​
4) Ferdinand (1593-1610)​
​
5) Charles (1595-1637) Archbishop of Toledo​
​
6) Anna (1597-1649) m. Philip II (1579-1633) King of England​

4c) Philip (1572)

5c) Isabella (1574-1583)

6c) James (1576)

* Son of Sebastian of Portugal and Margaret of France

** Daughter of John IV of Portugal and Mary of England
 
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isabella

Jan Olbracht said:
Edward VI dies in 1550, Mary Tudor marries earlier and has a son with Philip II.

Philip II (1527-1598) Duke of Burgundy, King of Spain, King of England iure uxoris, m. a) Maria Manuela of Portugal (1527-1545) b) Mary of England (1516-1560) c) Anna of Austria (1549-1580)

1a) Charles (1545-1568) Prince of Asturias, m. Elizabeth of France (1545-1597)
​
1a) Isabella (1564-1569)​
​
2a) Maria I (1566-1609) Queen of Spain 1598, m. Ferdinand VI (1570-1606) see below​

2a) Henry IX (1552-1599) Duke of Burgundy, King of England 1560, m. Elizabeth of Austria (1554-1592)

1) Mary (1574-1602) m. John IV (1575-1627) King of Portugal*​
​
2) Catherine (1576-1629) m. Henry II (1563-1624) Duke of Lorraine​
​
3) Henry (1577-1579)​
​
4) Philip II (1579-1633) Duke of Burgundy, King of England 1599, m. a) Margaret of Austria (1584-1611) b) Anna of Spain (1597-1649) see below​
​
5) Henry (1582)​

3c) Ferdinand VI (1570-1606) King of Spain (with Maria) m. Maria I (1566-1609) Queen of Spain

1) Isabella (1588-1642) m. John IV (1575-1627) King of Portugal (second wife)​
​
2) Maria (1590)​
​
3) Philip II (1591-1650) King of Spain 1609, m. Joanna of Portugal (1596-1642)**​
​
4) Ferdinand (1593-1610)​
​
5) Charles (1595-1637) Archbishop of Toledo​
​
6) Anna (1597-1649) m. Philip II (1579-1633) King of England​

4c) Philip (1572)

5c) Isabella (1574-1583)

6c) James (1576)

* Son of Sebastian of Portugal and Margaret of France

** Daughter of John IV of Portugal and Mary of England
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I wonder if Charles in 1550 would already push his son instead of accepting to marry Mary himself.
 

Jan Olbracht

Wilhelm (b. 1585) son of Albrecht Friedrich, Duke of Prussia, lives to adulthood and marries Anna Maria Vasa (b. 1593, IOTL died young).

William (1585-1633) Duke of Prussia, Margrave of Ansbach and Bayreuth 1618, m. Maria Anna of Poland (1593-1647)

1) William Sigismund (1616-1641) Duke of Prussia 1633

2) Frederick Albert (1618-1665) Margrave of Ansbach and Bayreuth 1633, Duke of Prussia 1641, m. Sibylle of Würtemburg (1620-1707)

1) John Frederick (1641-1642)​
​
2) Anna Sibylle (1643)​
​
3) Albert Frederick (1645-1647)​
​
4) John III Albert (1648-1700) Duke of Prussia 1665, King of Poland 1672, Margrave of Bayreuth and Ansbach 1676, m. Eleanor of Austria (1653-1697)​
​
1) Sigismund IV (1674-1730) Duke of Prussia, King of Poland 1700​
​
2) Eleanor (1676)​
​
3) Anna Maria (1677-1740)​
​
4) John Albert (1679-1736) Margrave of Bayreuth 1700​
​
5) Vladislaus (1681-1687)​
​
6) Ferdinand Charles (1682-1727) Margrave of Ansbach 1700​
​
5) Catherine (1650)​
​
6) William (1651-1676) Margrave of Bayreuth and Ansbach 1665​
 
RedKing

RedKing

An alternate six for Henry:


King Henry VIII (1491-1547), reigned from 1509, M. Eleanor of Austria (1498-1536) [1] in 1512, Elizabeth Blount (1502-1536) [2] in 1530, Anne Boleyn (1507-1537) [3] in 1536, Margot of Alencon (1517-1543) [4] in 1538, Elizabeth Boleyn (1510-1545) [5] in 1543 and Katherine Manners (1528-1556) [6], had issue

With Eleanor of Austria:

1. Princess Elizabeth, later Queen Elizabeth I (1516-1556), reigned from 1553 never married
2. Princess Mary (1519-1555) M. Duarte, Duke Guimaraes (1515-1559), had no surviving issue

With Elizabeth Blount:

3. Henry Fitzroy, later Henry Tudor, Prince of Wales (1521-1543) M. Mary Howard (1519-1543), had no issue
4. Lady Margaret Fitzroy, later Princess Margaret (1522-1540)
5. Prince Arthur (1531-1536)

With Anne Boleyn:

6. King Henry IX "The Devote" (1537-1553), never married

With Margot of Alencon:

7. Princess Katherine, later Queen Katherine (1539-1608), reigned from 1556 M. Henry Percy, Duke of Northumberland (1532-1589), had issue

7 (A). Princess Margaret Percy (1559-1610) M. Holy Roman Emperor Matthias (1557-1619)
7 (B). King Henry X (1561-1621) M. Christina of Lorraine (1565-1637)
7 (C). Prince Francis, Duke of York (1564-1610) M. Penelope Blount (1563-1609)

With Elizabeth Boleyn:

N/A

With Katherine Mannes:

N/A


...

[1] Divorced in 1530 after failing to give Henry a son, Henry marries long time lover Elizabeth Blount. Elizabeth I doesn't marry due to taking a vow of celibacy and so all hopes on her line lies on her sister who does not have any issue.
[2] A mistress of Henry VIII since 1519, has two children by the time of their marriage who are legitimised. Henry VIII still splits with the Church. Blount dies of a flu. Margaret dies in a horse riding accident and Fitzroy dies of the sweat.
[3]. Still does her magic, they have one son named Henry, she dies in childbirth like Jane Seymour in otl.
[4] An alt daughter of Marguerite of Angouleme and the Duke of Alencon, Margot converts but falls out of favour and is imprisoned and later dies under suspicious circumstances. Katherine gets the Mary treatment but becomes this scenario's equivalent to Elizabeth I, but with issue. Katherine I is Protestant, but has Catholic sympathies and wants peace with the Catholics in Europe, hence the marriages.
[5] Alt daughter of Tom Boleyn and Elizabeth Howard, Henry VIII marries her due to her resemblance to Anne but Elizabeth cheats on him and so is beheaded.
[6] An OTL noblewoman, she survives.

What happens to Catherine of Aragon? She dies with Arthur.
 
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