List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage

1. I did that with the idea that Richard thinks it will stop anyone from gathering around them to try and overthrow him.
2. She is a good fit for a Duke of Gloucester and the second son and could offer an appropriate dowry.
3. That was a mistake thanks for catching that! Also what does Afonso of Portugal living have to do with anything?
1) Nah, she'll marry OTL Manuel I of Portugal.

2) I think he'll marry an heiress, personally, or atleast a higher ranked french bride. Maybe Margaret of Angouleme (see below)

3) Joanna's kids would higher in succession than Manuel, so Richard's eldest son by her is going to be king of Portugal in the event of Afonso dying. So he can get a high match than Margaret.
 
1) Nah, she'll marry OTL Manuel I of Portugal.

2) I think he'll marry an heiress, personally, or atleast a higher ranked french bride. Maybe Margaret of Angouleme (see below)

3) Joanna's kids would higher in succession than Manuel, so Richard's eldest son by her is going to be king of Portugal in the event of Afonso dying. So he can get a high match than Margaret.
But was Portugal, not male preference? If so would it not skip over to Manuel? Also could her Father just not say it is going to Manuel
 
But was Portugal, not male preference? If so would it not skip over to Manuel? Also could her Father just not say it is going to Manuel
It is, and that's why Joanna's kids are higher in succession. If it followed salic or semi salic then Manuel would be next in line.

Who's father? If you mean Joanna's, he's dead pre-PoD. If you mean that the current ruler (Joanna's brother) could say that Manuel is heir, not happening. Joao hated the Viseus FWIR.
 
It is, and that's why Joanna's kids are higher in succession. If it followed salic or semi salic then Manuel would be next in line.

Who's father? If you mean Joanna's, he's dead pre-PoD. If you mean that the current ruler (Joanna's brother) could say that Manuel is heir, not happening. Joao hated the Viseus FWIR.
Ah, I see. So it’s better to just have the negotiations fail and have Richard remain unmarried or marry elsewhere, that or give Portugal to his other son
 
Ah, I see. So it’s better to just have the negotiations fail and have Richard remain unmarried or marry elsewhere, that or give Portugal to his other son
Negotiations had already succeeded, they ain't failing in all likelihood. Richard will remarry elsewhere if they do.

I don't see a particularly pressing need for York (R3's son) to be in England. He's the rightful king of Portugal why would he forsake it to give it to a younger brother?
 
Negotiations had already succeeded, they ain't failing in all likelihood. Richard will remarry elsewhere if they do.

I don't see a particularly pressing need for York (R3's son) to be in England. He's the rightful king of Portugal why would he forsake it to give it to a younger brother?
I meant Richard has England go to Edward Middleham and the younger brother gets Portugal
 
Maybe for his double nephew, Edward of Clarence, but not for an heir. Richard needs to establish his dynasty as fully and utterly royal - that means marrying into other royal families
I see, my idea was to get the dowry to help pay for the whole wars of the roses and any other debts Richard may have
 
That’s a good one! I also thought of Anne St Leger due to her wealth!
Anne St Ledger lost her wealth as soon Richard became King.

Negotiations had already succeeded, they ain't failing in all likelihood. Richard will remarry elsewhere if they do.

I don't see a particularly pressing need for York (R3's son) to be in England. He's the rightful king of Portugal why would he forsake it to give it to a younger brother?
Richard would most likely NOT remarry if Middleham survive
 
Why? What's your reasoning?
Agreed, wasn’t the conventional wisdom back the the “Heir and a spare” in practice in England back then?
Finding a bride for himself would be almost impossible. Joanna of Portugal was simply his last chance and she was both rather old and quite unwilling to marry. Excluding Joanna (who most likely will stay unmarried and in any case is unlikely to give him any child) who else Richard can realistically marry?
 
Finding a bride for himself would be almost impossible. Joanna of Portugal was simply his last chance and she was both rather old and quite unwilling to marry. Excluding Joanna (who most likely will stay unmarried and in any case is unlikely to give him any child) who else Richard can realistically marry?
Was Joanna not 23 at the time?
 
Top