List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage

Revised issue of Margaret of Austria from my Margareta domina TL.


Margaret of Austria, Duchess of Burgundy (b. January 1480, r. from 1496) m. Philibert II, Duke of Savoy (b. 1480, r. from 1504) in 1497, had issue

1) Mary (b. September 1498) m. John III, King of Castile, Aragon, and Portugal (b. 1502)​
2) Philip V, Duke of Burgundy (b. April 1500) m. Mary Tudor (b. 1503, d. 1524) (a); Beatriz of Portugal (b. 1504) (b)​
3) Margaret (b. February 1502) m. Sigismund I Jagiellon, King of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania (b. 1467) in 1517, had issue​
4) Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (b. August 1503) m. Elisabeth Jagiellonica (b. 1505)​
5) Philiberta (b. October 1505) m. Stephen VI Jagiellon, King of Hungary and Bohemia (b. 1504)​
6) Bianca (b. March 1507) m. Massimiliano II Sforza, Duke of Milan (b. 1512)​
Note:
Stephen and Elisabeth Jagiellon are the children of Vladislaus II and María of Aragón.
Beatriz and John are the children of Manuel I and Juana of Castile.
Massimiliano is the son of Francesco II Sforza and Bona Sforza.
I am also considering having Margaret marry Christian II of Denmark because I don't have a bride for him ITTL.
I am loving it. For Christian there is no Tudor bride available?
And I am absolutely loving it
 
No, as Arthur Tudor survives longer ITTL so Elizabeth of York and Henry VII never try for another child in 1502/1503. Though Elizabeth was probably pregnant before Arthur's death, so maybe I could change that...
You have Mary Tudor as born in 1503 here, so she is either Arthur’s daughter (and her aunt is free) or the birthdate is wrong... Also with your POD
 
You have Mary Tudor as born in 1503 here, so she is either Arthur’s daughter (and her aunt is free) or the birthdate is wrong... Also with your POD
Oh oh, I was confused...I had thought about Mary the Elder dying in childhood (she was apparently a sickly child) while Henry and Elizabeth had a surviving daughter in 1503. But I decided against it.
 
Mary of Savoy has a son with Filippo Maria Visconti

Mary of Savoy (1411-1469) m. Filippo Maria (1392-1447) Duke of Milan

1) Galeazzo Maria (1430-1489) Duke of Milan 1447, m. a) Margaret of Savoy (1439-1464) b) Eleanor of Naples (1450-1493)

1a) Gian Galeazzo (1457-1460)​
2a) Mary (1458-1512) m. Ercole d'Este (1431-1505) Duke of Ferrara​
3a) Margaret (1461)​
4a) Anna (1464-1471)​
5b) Philip (1469-1531) Duke of Milan 1489, m. Elisabetta Gonzaga (1471-1526)​
6b) Isabella (1472)​
7b) Eleanor (1474-1538) m. Philibert I (1465-1505) Duke of Savoy​
 
MIRACLE OF THE HOUSE OF HABSBURG

Built this tree based on various previous discussions about Baltasar Carlos or Ferdinand IV, King of the Romans, surviving or Klaudia Felizitas having a brother:

Ferdinand III, Holy Roman Emperor [1637-1657], King of Hungary & Bohemia [1637-1646] (1608-1657) 1m: Maria Anna of Spain (1606-1646); 2m: 1648 Maria Leopoldine of Austria (1632-1649); 3m: 1651 Eleonora Gonzaga (1630-1686)

[1m.] Ferdinand IV, Holy Roman Emperor [1657-1700], King of Hungary & Bohemia [1646-1669] (1633-1700) m: 1654 Anna Sophie of Hesse-Darmstadt [1] (1638-1683)​
Ferdinand V Bonaventure Philipp Albrecht, Holy Roman Emperor [1700-1712], King of Hungary & Bohemia [1669-1712] (1655-1716) m:​
Maria Anna Leopoldine (b.1656)​
Eleonore Maria Theresia (b.1658)​
Stillborn Son (1660)​
Maria Antonia Klementine (b.1663)​
Maria Theresia Ferdinande (1664-1664)​
Karl Thomas Ferdinand, Archduke of Austria (b.1666)​
Stillborn Child (1667)​
Maria Elisabeth Karoline (1670-1671)​
Joseph Anton Ignaz, Archduke of Austria (b.1672)​
[1m.] Maria Anna (1634-1696) m: 1648 Carlos II, King of Spain (1629-1709)​
[1m.] Philipp August (1637-1639)​
[1m.] Maximilian Thomas (1638-1639)​
[1m.] Leopold, Cardinal [1655-], Archbishop-Elector of Trier [1652-1705[2]], Bishop of Olmütz [1655-1705], Bishop of Breslau [1662-1705] Grand Master of the Teutonic Order [1662-1705] (1640-1705)​
[1m.] Maria (1646)​
[2m.] Karl Joseph, Archduke of Austria[3] (1649-1708) m: 1673 Klaudia Felizitas of Tyrol (1653-1716)​
Karl Ferdinand Joseph (1674-1675)​
Franz Anton, Archduke of Austria (1677-1713)​
Maria Anna Barbara (1678-1679)​
Maria Leopoldine Felizitas (1679-1740)​
[3m.] Theresia Maria Josepha (1652-1653)​
[3m.] Eleonore Maria Josepha (1653-1697) 1m: 1670 Michal Wisniowiecki, King of Poland (1640-1673); 2m: 1678 Charles V, Duke of Lorraine (1643-1690)[7]​
Issue as OTL​
[3m.] Maria Anna Josepha (1654-1696) m: 1674 Karl Emil, Elector of Brandenburg (1655-1724)​
Karl (1676-1680)​
Luise Eleonore (1678-1719)​
Anna Maria (1680-1718)​
Henriëtte Dorothea (1682-1687)​
Friedrich IV Ferdinand, Elector of Brandenburg (1684-1740)​
Leopold Wilhelm (1687-1753)​
Elisabeth Amalie (1688-1739)​
[3m.] Ferdinand Joseph Alois (1657-1658)​


Felipe IV, King of Spain [1621-1665] (1605-1665) 1m: 1615 Élisabeth de France (1601-1644)

Maria Margarita (1621-1621)​
Margarita Maria Catalina (1623-1623)​
Maria Eugenia (1625-1627)​
Stillborn Daughter (1626)​
Isabel Maria Teresa (1627-1627)​
Baltasar Carlos II, King of Spain, Naples, Sicily, Sardinia [1665-1709] (1629-1709[4]) m: 1648 Maria Anna of Austria (1634-1696)​
Maria Isabel (1652-1675) m: [7]​
Felipe Fernando (1654-1658)​
Fernando Miguel (1656-1656)​
Maria Antonia Leonor (b.1659) m: [7]​
Carlos III Antonio, King of Spain, Naples, Sicily & Sardinia [from 1709] (b.1661) m: 1674 Maria Beatrice d'Este (b.1658)[6]​
Stillborn Son (1664)​
Felipe Pedro, Infante of Spain (b.1667)​
Francisco Fernando (1634)​
Maria Antonia Dominica (1636-1636)​
Maria Teresa (1638-1683) m: 1660 Louis XIV, King of France (1638-1715)[5]​
Issue as OTL​



[1] a match gleaned from one of the aforementioned previous discussions. That one of the daughters of the Landgrave of Hesse-Darmstadt was the likeliest candidate (especially since Ferdinand III had promised to avoid getting the empire involved in the Spanish entanglements) for Ferdinand IV. Anna Sophie had a “moment of weakness” shortly after her sister married the Count of Neuberg, and her election as abbess of Quedlinburg was regarded as suspect for this reason. Here, the moment of weakness is long enough to make her convert to Catholicism and marry Ferdinand IV. Although she later isn't what one can call a very...convinced Catholic.

[2] basing this off something I think @Valena said once that had Ferdinand IV had survived, Leopold would have been shuffled into one of the archbishop-electorates

[3] things in Tyrol go as OTL. Another discussion between @Valena and @VVD0D95 that in the event of Karl Joseph surviving or Klaudia Felizitas having a brother, he would’ve been married to Margarita Teresa of Spain and Leopold I would’ve married to Klaudia Felizitas with the Tyrol as a dowry.

[4] here is our primary POD. Baltasar Carlos survives (or better yet, never catches the disease that killed him OTL. Felipe IV seems unlikely to remarry here, so he doesn't.

[5] Maria Teresa is admittedly less of a catch with Baltasar Carlos surviving. However, since there already is an Austro-Spanish match, and Felipe IV was already decided on a French match back in the 1640s. Until the Restoration happens, she’s the best match that Louis XIV can get.

[6] this marriage is probably the most ASB one here, but, if her brother seemingly has poor health, she's a potential heiress of sorts (especially if Rinaldo d'Este were to follow his half-brothers to an early grave. And even if he didn't, a Farnese mother might've still helped Rinaldo (provided him with allies), a Barberini mother is pretty much useless for anything except influence in the papal states.

[7] other: these matches were mostly because I either couldn't think of alternatives (although James II of England did occur to me for Eleonora Maria Josepha, neither she nor her sister, Maria Anna were considered OTL, although Klaudia Felizitas was) or wasn't sure who'd be up for consideration.

@Vitruvius @Benevolence @isabella @Jan Olbracht
 
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Sigismund Jagiellon predeceased his brother Alexander, Vladislaus of Bohemia and Hungary succeedes Alexander in Poland and Lithuania, being only living adult male Jagiellon, and thus he sits on 4 thrones.

Vladislaus II/IV (1456-1518)* King of Bohemia 1471, King of Hungary 1490, Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1506, m. a) Barbara of Brandenburg (annuled) b) Beatrice of Naples (annuled) c) Anne of Foix (1484-1535)

1c) Louis II (1503-1571) King of Bohemia and Hungary 1518, m. Mary of Austria (1505-1558)

2c) Vladislaus V (1505-1557) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1518, m. Anna of Brandenburg (1507-1567)

3c) Anna (1507-1536) m. Ferdinand I (1503-1564) Holy Roman Emperor

*As Anne of Foix survives ITTL, Vladislaus, who was depressed after her death, lives a bit longer.
 
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Something I've been pondering

Charles II of England, Scotland and Ireland (b.1630: d.1686) m Catherine of Braganza (b.1638: d.1705)

Issue:

Stillborn son (b.1663: d.1663)

Elizabeth, Princess Royal (b.1666) m Frederick, Crown Prince of Denmark (b.1671) in 1685

Charles III of England, Scotland and Ireland (b.1666) m Maria Anna of Neuburg (b.1667) in 1684

---------
Charles III of England, Scotland and Ireland (b.1666: d.1723) m Maria Anna of Neuburg (b.1667: d.1740)

Issue:

Catherine, Princess Royal (b.1684)

Charles, Prince of Wales (b.1685: d.1692)

Robert I of England and IV of Scotland (b.1687)

Mary of England (b.1689)

stillborn son (b.1691: d.1691)

Anne of Holyrood (b.1694)

James, Duke of Gloucester and Kintyre (b.1696)

Stillborn daughter (b.1699: d.1699)

Henry, Duke of Clarence and Ross (b.1702)

@Kellan Sullivan @isabella @curlyhairedhippie @The Professor @Jonathan @Valena @Emperor Constantine
 
Something I've been pondering
Why is Anne called of Holyrood?

Charles III of England, Scotland and Ireland (b.1666: d.1723) m Maria Anna of Neuburg (b.1667: d.1740)
1) Catherine, Princess Royal, Queen of Spain (b.1684) m. Philip V of Spain (19/12/1683–9/7/1746) [1]​
2) Charles, Prince of Wales (b.1685: d.1692)​
3) Robert I of England and IV of Scotland (b.1687) m. Sophia Dorothea of Hanover (26/3/1687–28/6/1757) [2]​
4) Mary of England (b.1689) m. John V of Portugal (22 October 1689 – 31 July 1750) [3]​
5) stillborn son (b.1691: d.1691)​
6) Anne of Holyrood (b.1694) m. James, Duke of York (10/6/1688-1/1/1766) [4]​
7) James, Duke of Gloucester and Kintyre (b.1696)​
8) Stillborn daughter (b.1699: d.1699)​
9) Henry, Duke of Clarence and Ross (b.1702)​

[1] In 1670, England agreed to support the rights of Louis XIV to the Spanish throne in the Treaty of Dover, this would result in England joing France in the War of the Spanish Succession.
[2] A Protestant cousin was suggested as a match from Parliament.
[3] Mary was related to John via her mother (sister of John's mother, Maria Sophia, Queen of Portugal) and her paternal grandmother, Catherine of Braganza (sister of John's father, Peter II, King of Portugal)
[4] The marriage was arranged by Charles III and his uncle James, Duke of York, before he died.

Haven't decided on the younger brothers.
 
Sneak peak of something I'm doing for my TL about the Catholic Monarchs...


János I Corvinus, King of Hungary and Croatia (b. 1473, d. 1504) m. Isabella of Naples (b. 1473, d. ?) in 1491, had issue

1) Beatrix Corvinus, Holy Roman Empress (b. 1492, d. ?) m. Ernst I, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1486, d. ?)​
2) Elisabeth Corvinus, Queen of Naples (b. 1494, d. ?) m. Ferdinand III, King of Naples (b. 1479, d. 1513)​
3) Matthias II Corvinus, King of Hungary and Croatia (b. 1497, d. 1526) m. Margaret of Burgundy (b. 1499, d. ?)​
4) Alfonz Corvinus (b. 1499, d. 1500)​
5) Johanna Corvinus, Queen of Bohemia (b. 1504, d. ?) m. Wenceslaus V Jagiellon, King of Bohemia (b. 1503, d. ?)​
 
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Why is Anne called of Holyrood?
Born at Holyroodhouse Palace?

3) Robert I of England and IV of Scotland (b.1687) m. Sophia Dorothea of Hanover (26/3/1687–28/6/1757) [2]
Only way for this match to go through would be for Friedrich Wilhelm not to fall for her (or his mother to not want a match with her niece), since he bribed the ambassador sent abroad to scout potential brides to tell his father bad things about the other three candidates (Ulrika Eleonora and ICR the other two) in order to make Sophia Dorothea (who he really wanted to marry) seem like the only "suitable" candidate.

1) Catherine, Princess Royal, Queen of Spain (b.1684) m. Philip V of Spain (19/12/1683–9/7/1746) [1]
I could see Catherine being considered as a match for either Emperor Joseph I (whose wife was a great-granddaughter of Elizabeth Stuart) or Karl VI instead. And was the Spanish succession already an issue at the time of OTL Dover?
 
Why is Anne called of Holyrood?

Charles III of England, Scotland and Ireland (b.1666: d.1723) m Maria Anna of Neuburg (b.1667: d.1740)
1) Catherine, Princess Royal, Queen of Spain (b.1684) m. Philip V of Spain (19/12/1683–9/7/1746) [1]​
2) Charles, Prince of Wales (b.1685: d.1692)​
3) Robert I of England and IV of Scotland (b.1687) m. Sophia Dorothea of Hanover (26/3/1687–28/6/1757) [2]​
4) Mary of England (b.1689) m. John V of Portugal (22 October 1689 – 31 July 1750) [3]​
5) stillborn son (b.1691: d.1691)​
6) Anne of Holyrood (b.1694) m. James, Duke of York (10/6/1688-1/1/1766) [4]​
7) James, Duke of Gloucester and Kintyre (b.1696)​
8) Stillborn daughter (b.1699: d.1699)​
9) Henry, Duke of Clarence and Ross (b.1702)​

[1] In 1670, England agreed to support the rights of Louis XIV to the Spanish throne in the Treaty of Dover, this would result in England joing France in the War of the Spanish Succession.
[2] A Protestant cousin was suggested as a match from Parliament.
[3] Mary was related to John via her mother (sister of John's mother, Maria Sophia, Queen of Portugal) and her paternal grandmother, Catherine of Braganza (sister of John's father, Peter II, King of Portugal)
[4] The marriage was arranged by Charles III and his uncle James, Duke of York, before he died.

Haven't decided on the younger brothers.

Where she was born, was thinking that Mary is Mary of England largely becsuse her birth place may be a bit scandalous.

And oh interesting, would this duke of York srill come into being with Charles having two heirs?
 
Born at Holyroodhouse Palace?
Ah thats fair enough, I was only asking as Mary was know as of England. Just making sure she wasn't an illegitimate.

Only way for this match to go through would be for Friedrich Wilhelm not to fall for her (or his mother to not want a match with her niece), since he bribed the ambassador sent abroad to scout potential brides to tell his father bad things about the other three candidates (Ulrika Eleonora and ICR the other two) in order to make Sophia Dorothea (who he really wanted to marry) seem like the only "suitable" candidate.
Would George I or George II not try and push her to be in England rather than Prussia? Being a year older, England could arrange the marriage quicker.
I could see Catherine being considered as a match for either Emperor Joseph I (whose wife was a great-granddaughter of Elizabeth Stuart) or Karl VI instead. And was the Spanish succession already an issue at the time of OTL Dover?
In this article, it says that Charles II sought to support Louis XIV in a war with Dutch Republic, but was also supportive of Louis XIV's claim to the Spanish Throne. Charles II wasn't close with the HRE

Where she was born, was thinking that Mary is Mary of England largely becsuse her birth place may be a bit scandalous.
Fair enough

And oh interesting, would this duke of York srill come into being with Charles having two heirs?
James, would still want a wife and children to take his dukedom.
 
Ah thats fair enough, I was only asking as Mary was know as of England. Just making sure she wasn't an illegitimate.


Would George I or George II not try and push her to be in England rather than Prussia? Being a year older, England could arrange the marriage quicker.

In this article, it says that Charles II sought to support Louis XIV in a war with Dutch Republic, but was also supportive of Louis XIV's claim to the Spanish Throne. Charles II wasn't close with the HRE


Fair enough


James, would still want a wife and children to take his dukedom.

True though, Mary of Modena only married him on the view that she’d bring about a catholic dynasty in England, with thay hope gone, it is possible james marries klaudoa feliticas
 
Would George I or George II not try and push her to be in England rather than Prussia?
Why? What can England that's a sea away do for them that Prussia (that's essentially right next door) can't?

Charles II wasn't close with the HRE
Yes, but Charles II isn't the one who'd be arranging his granddaughter's marriage.
And as to Charles II's closeness with the Habsburgs, I wouldn't say that. He considered two Habsburg candidates (Eleonore Magdalene of Neuburg and Klaudia Felizitas of Austria) as second wives for James II just three years after Dover, and the only reason he went with Mary of Modena was because Klaudia was unavailable and Eleonore didn't want to (IIRC).
Mary II was considered as a third wife for Leopold I, and Anne was considered (at the same time) for Carlos II of Spain. So I don't think the whole "not close with the HRE" reasoning holds water even regardless of the fact that Catherine would only be two when Charlie dies.

Mary of England largely becsuse her birth place may be a bit scandalous.
She born at Piddleditch or something? :p
 
Why? What can England that's a sea away do for them that Prussia (that's essentially right next door) can't?


Yes, but Charles II isn't the one who'd be arranging his granddaughter's marriage.
And as to Charles II's closeness with the Habsburgs, I wouldn't say that. He considered two Habsburg candidates (Eleonore Magdalene of Neuburg and Klaudia Felizitas of Austria) as second wives for James II just three years after Dover, and the only reason he went with Mary of Modena was because Klaudia was unavailable and Eleonore didn't want to (IIRC).
Mary II was considered as a third wife for Leopold I, and Anne was considered (at the same time) for Carlos II of Spain. So I don't think the whole "not close with the HRE" reasoning holds water even regardless of the fact that Catherine would only be two when Charlie dies.


She born at Piddleditch or something? :p

Let’s just say she and Charles were getting busy and then Maria Anna’s water broke.... and they weren’t in a palace 😂
 
Let’s just say she and Charles were getting busy and then Maria Anna’s water broke.... and they weren’t in a palace 😂
So an "Italian induction" [1] then?

[1] don't know what the actual term is, heard it called that on a medical show once

PS: didn't queens still go into confinement or was that a thing of the past by this point
 
So an "Italian induction" [1] then?

[1] don't know what the actual term is, heard it called that on a medical show once

PS: didn't queens still go into confinement or was that a thing of the past by this point
Actuallt bot sure, Mary of Modena was playing cards when her water broke with James.

Not sure she’d be allowed to play cards if in confinement
 
PODs: Edward IV and Mary of Burgundy both lives until 1484, meanwhile in Spain Isabella of Castile miscarries in 1479 and could not have more children (WIP)

Edward IV (1442-1484) King of England, m. Elizabeth Woodville (1437-1492)

1) Elizabeth (b. 1466) m. Charles VIII (b. 1470) King of France

2) Mary (1467-1482)

3) Cecily (1469-1507) m. James IV (b. 1473) King of Scotland

4) Edward V (1470-1489) King of England 1483

5) Margaret (1472)

6) Richard (1473-1486) m. Anne Mowbray

7) Anne (1475-1511) m. Philip IV (b. 1478) Duke of Burgundy

8) George I (b. 1477) King of England, m. Margaret of Austria (b. 1480)

9) Catherine (1479-1527) m. a) John (1478-1497) Prince of Asturias b) Manuel I (1469-1521) King of Portugal

10) Bridget (1480-1517) nun
 
Here’s one where Richard III wins Bosworth and Edward of Middleham survives:

King Richard III (1452-1507), reigned from 1483, M. Anne Neville (1456-1485) and in 1487 Princess Joanna of Portugal (1452-1506), had issue:

With Anne Neville:

1. Edward Middleham, later King Edward V (1473-1529) reigned from 1507 M. Elizabeth of York (1466-1521), had issue:

1 (A). Prince Richard, later King Richard IV (1489-1551), reigned from 1529 M. Catherine of Aragon (1485-1555).
1 (B). Princess Anne (1492-1543) M. King Orland I of France (1492-1539)
1 (C). Prince Edward, Duke Of Gloucester (1494-1525) M. Antoinette de Bourbon

With Princess Joanna

2. Princess Cecily (1488-1536) M. King James IV of Scotland (1473-1423) reigned from 1488, had issue:

2 (A). Prince James, Duke of Rothesay (1508-1556) reigned from 1523.
2 (B). Princes Cecily of Scotland (1509)

3. Prince Richard, Duke of York (1491-1559) M. Marguerite de Angouleme (1492-1550) had issue:

3 (A). Sir Edward of York (1507)
3 (B). Lady Margaret (1509)
3 (C). Lady Joanna (1511)
3 (D). Sir Richard (1513)

4. Princess Joanna (1494-1519) M. King Christian II of Denmark, had issue:

4 (A). Prince John of Denmark (1510-1543)
4 (B). Prince Christian (1512-1550)
4 (C). Princess Christina (1515-1556)

.....

So a few notes, the daughters of Edward IV are either married of to loyalist of Richard or sent to the convent.
 
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