@King of Danes looks pretty good but a nithpick is that William would be II on Scotland on account of William the Lion.
List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage II
- Thread starter FalconHonour
- Start date
Thanks for noticing
To be fair, how Protestant was Elizabeth at the time of her marriage? She won't exactly have the OTL experience of only them supporting her
Fair enough, I was thinking that maybe he falls for her portrait or something (and it certainly would not be ASB for a Tudor to make a surprising marriage)
I mean, 60 years old is quite a long life for those days
The Hungarian Jagiellons Survive:
Lajos II, King of Hungary & Bohemia [1516-1526] (1506-1526) m: 1515 Maria of Austria (1505-1564)
[1] Her father dies before his third marriage, which means that Anna Maria is heiress to Georg’s lands in Hungary and Bohemia. While originally, a match with the Habsburgs is preferred, on reaching his majority, Karoly weds Anna Maria to assert his independence from the court. Without her Calvinist dad, Anna Maria and her foster siblings, the kids of Kasimir of Ansbach, remain (at least nominally) Catholic.
[2] Adopted as heir to Sigismund II Augustus after the deaths of Sigismund’s namesake nephew, Sigmund of Brandenburg in 1566 (figure Karol's got that he's a male-line Jagiellon on his side, plus the fact he's only 10yo in 1566 and can be taken to Poland to be raised)
@Jan Olbracht @Fehérvári @Zygmunt Stary @Tibi088 @VVD0D95 @isabella
Lajos II, King of Hungary & Bohemia [1516-1526] (1506-1526) m: 1515 Maria of Austria (1505-1564)
Karoly III, King of Hungary & Bohemia [as Karel V 1526-1587] (1525-1587) m: 1545 Anna Maria of Brandenburg-Ansbach[1] (b.1526)
Lajos, Duke of Slavonia (1546-1549)
György, King of Hungary & Bohemia [as Jiri II from 1587] (b.1547)
Maria (b.1550)
Hedwig (b.1552)
Anna (b.1554)
Karol I, King of Poland, Grand Duke of Lithuania [from 1572[2]] (b.1556)
Stillborn Son (1559)
[1] Her father dies before his third marriage, which means that Anna Maria is heiress to Georg’s lands in Hungary and Bohemia. While originally, a match with the Habsburgs is preferred, on reaching his majority, Karoly weds Anna Maria to assert his independence from the court. Without her Calvinist dad, Anna Maria and her foster siblings, the kids of Kasimir of Ansbach, remain (at least nominally) Catholic.
[2] Adopted as heir to Sigismund II Augustus after the deaths of Sigismund’s namesake nephew, Sigmund of Brandenburg in 1566 (figure Karol's got that he's a male-line Jagiellon on his side, plus the fact he's only 10yo in 1566 and can be taken to Poland to be raised)
@Jan Olbracht @Fehérvári @Zygmunt Stary @Tibi088 @VVD0D95 @isabella
As male line Jagiellon Karol would be preffered heir even before death of Sigismund Hohenzollern. Grand Duchy of Lithuania had no tradition of female line inheritance.
James IV, King of Scotland [1488-1513] (1473-1513) m: 1503 Margaret Tudor, Princess of England (1489-1541)
James V, King of Scotland [1513-1542] (1512-1542) m: 1528 Mary I, Queen of England [1528-1558] (1516-1558)
James VI and I, King of Scotland [1542-1605], King of England [1558-1605] (1532-1605) 1m: 1549 Catherine, Archduchess of Austria (1533-1572), 2m: 1573 Sibylle of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (1557-1627)
Elizabeth, Princess of England and Scotland [1533-1603] (1533-1603) m: Philip II, King of Spain [1556-1598] (1527-1598)
Edward, Duke of York and Ross [1536-1599] (1536-1599) m: Jane Grey, Duchess of Suffolk [1559-1604] (1537-1604)
Mary had cancer, James had cholera/dysentery - not like they were killed in battle or something, so I'd think these illnesses would still occur
Yeah, I was wondering that too. The circumstances that led to their deaths had more or less been butterflied. Mary suffered horrific mental and emotional abuse due to "The King's Great Matter", which means way emotional and mental stress for Mary, and we now know that stress has a huge effect on physical health. Henry's death in 1528 completely erases that. And Queen Mary marrying James V completely erases the reasons for his death in 1542 too.
Both of them should live at least a few years longer here...
Yes, and on top of that, with everything in ruins, he was told his wife had just had a baby girl. None of that is happening here.
Also, with a very different life/health history, and way less stress and mental/emotional abuse in her life, it's highly likely Mary might not have cancer, or at least get it much later in life...
A male Jagiellon would be always favored over female line descendants in Poland, specially as Lithuania could go only to a male Jagiellon, until they got exinct
POD: Catherine of Aragon and Arthur Tudor switch death dates.
Henry VII of England (1457-1509) m. Elizabeth of York (1466-1522)
[1] He lives some years longer than OTL. Also I know Sidonie would probably be pushed to remarry but she refuses and becomes a nun.
[2] Children of John III of Portugal and Isabella of Austria.
[3] Healthier than in OTL.
[4] Children of Philip II of Spain and Isabella of Portugal.
[5] Son of Catherine of Austria and Francesco II of Milan, her second husband.
[6] Son of Henry Grey and Catherine FitzAlan.
[7] I know that she's too old and not low ranked for him but it wouldn't be the Tudor dinasty without at least one scandalous marriage.
[8] Granddaughter of Henry Percy and Anne Boleyn.
[9] Daughter of Sigismund II of Poland and Catherine of Austria.
Henry VII of England (1457-1509) m. Elizabeth of York (1466-1522)
1) Arthur I of England (1486-1536) m. a) Catherine of Aragon (1485-1502), b) Sidonie of Bavaria (1488-1509), c) Eleanor of Austria (1498-1558)
1b) Elizabeth (1505-1562) m. Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (1500-1558)
1) Sidonie (1522-1595) m. Francis III, Duke of Brittany (1518-1540) [1]
2) Philip II of Spain (1524-1583) m. Isabella of Portugal (1523-1576) [2]
3) Joanna (1525)
4) Maria (1527-1592) m. Maximilian II, Holy Roman Emperor (1527-1576)
5) Arthur (1529-1531)
6) Charles, Duke of Burgundy (1530-1598) m. Margaret of Valois (1534-1592)
7) Isabella (1532-1533)
8) John, Archbishop of Zaragoza (1534-1609)
9) Eleanor (1537-1604) m. Manuel II of Portugal (1539-1586)
2b) Stillborn daughter (1507)
3b) Henry, Prince of Wales (1509-1528) m. Catherine of Austria (1507-1579)
1) Eleanor (1526-1528)
2) Henry (1527)
4c) Arthur II of England (1516-1577) m. Madeleine of Valois (1520-1583) [3]
1) Arthur, Duke of Cornwall (1537-1541)
2) Henry VIII of England (1539-1600) m. Joanna of Spain (1541-1598) [4]
3) Stillborn son (1540)
4) Edmund, Duke of York (1543-1559)
5) Eleanor (1546-1609) m. Robert IV of Scotland (1540-1601)
5c) Edward (1518)
6c) Margaret (1519-1573) m. Afonso VI of Portugal (1519-1564) [2]
1) John (1537-1540)
2) Manuel II of Portugal (1539-1586) m. Eleanor of Austria (1537-1604)
3) Isabella (1540-1541)
4) Eleanor (1542)
5) Arthur, Duke of Beja (1544-1596) m. Filipa da Silva, Countess of Portalegre (1550-1590)
6) Maria (1546-1604) m. Philip, Prince of Asturias (1546-1579) [4]
7) Joanna (1548-1615) m. Ludovico II Sforza, Duke of Milan (1533-1590) [5]
7c) Mary (1521-1528)
8c) Edmund, Duke of Richmond (1522-1584) m. Elizabeth Tudor, Vicountess Lisle (1521-1570)
1) Henry, Duke of Richmond (1538-1599) m. Mary FitzAlan (1540-1594)
2) Arthur (1540)
3) Eleanor (1541-1585) Nun
4) Elizabeth (1541-1603) m. Arthur Grey, Marquess of Dorset (1537-1592) [6]
9c) Catherine (1524-1573) m. Francis, Duke of Lorraine (1517-1545)
1) Charles III, Duke of Lorraine (1544-1608) m. Madeleine of Valois (1544-1610)
10c) Charles, Duke of Pembroke (1526-1528)
11c) John, Duke of Pembroke (1529-1596) m. Catherine Howard (1523-1570) [7]
1) Arthur, Duke of Pembroke (1548-1612) m. Anne Percy (1549-1621) [8]
2) Eleanor (1550-1617) m, Edward Manners, Earl of Rutland (1549-1587)
3) Magdalene (1553-1591) m. Gilbert Talbot, Earl of Shrewsbury (1552-1616)
4) John (1555)
5) Edward, Archbishop of Canterbury (1559-1629)
2) Margaret (1489-1541) m. James IV of Scotland (1473-1533)
1) James, Duke of Rothesay (1507-1508)
2) Stillborn daughter (1508)
3) Margaret (1509-1510)
4) James V of Scotland (1512-1542) m. Dorothea of Denmark (1516-1582)
1) James, Duke of Rothesay (1535-1541)
2) Margaret (1537-1584) m. James Stewart, Duke of Ross (1535-1602)
3) Alexander (1539)
4) Robert IV of Scotland (1540-1601) m. a) Marie of Valois (1540-1560), b) Eleanor Tudor (1546-1609)
5) Mary (1542-1543)
5) Arthur (1513)
6) Alexander, Duke of Ross (1514-1540) m. Mary of Bourbon (1515-1538)
1) James, Duke of Ross (1535-1602) m. Margaret Stewart (1537-1584)
2) Mary (1538-1597) m. James Hamilton, Earl of Arran (1537-1609)
7) Dorothea (1516-1519)
8) Mary (1518-1581) m. Henry II of France (1519-1566)
1) Margaret (1534-1592) m. Charles, Duke of Burgundy (1530-1598)
2) Claude (1536)
3) Elisabeth (1537-1588) m. Emmanuel Philibert, Duke of Savoy (1528-1580)
4) Francis II of France (1539-1579) m. Isabella of Spain (1540-1593) [4]
5) Marie (1540-1560) m. Robert IV of Scotland (1540-1601)
6) Henry (1542)
7) Madeleine (1544-1610) m. Charles III, Duke of Lorraine (1544-1608)
8) Charles, Duke of Orleans (1545-1573) m. Lucrezia de Medici (1545-1607)
9) Louise (1547-1552)
10) Stillborn son (1549)
11) John II of Poland (1551-1623) m. Hedwig II of Poland (1555-1625) [9]
12) Anne (1554-1612) m. Henry III of Navarre (1553-1625)
9) Henry (1520)
3) Henry, Duke of York (1491-1547) m. a) Madeleine de la Tour d'Auvergne (1498-1518), b) Elizabeth Grey, Viscountess Lisle (1505-1559)
1a) Stillborn son (1517)
2b) Elizabeth, Viscountess Lisle (1521-1570) m. Edmund Tudor, Duke of Richmond (1522-1584)
4) Elizabeth (1592-1595)
5) Mary (1496-1543) m. Christian II of Denmark (1481-1559)
1) John (1514-1526)
2) Dorothea (1516-1582) m. James V of Scotland (1512-1542)
3) Christina (1518-1569) m. William, Duke of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (1516-1596)
1) Stillborn daughter (1538)
2) William Frederick, Duke of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (1540-1603) m. a) Barbara of Austria (1539-1572), b) Jakobea of Baden (1558-1597)
3) John (1543-1544)
4) Marie Eleonore (1545-1598) m. William V, Duke of Bavaria (1548-1626)
5) Elizabeth (1547)
6) Anna (1550-1551)
7) Sybille (1552-1616) m. Albert Frederick, Duke of Prussia (1553-1618)
4) Elizabeth (1521)
5) Henry (1523-1524)
6) Christian III of Denmark (1525-1591) m. Maria of Austria (1531-1581)
1) John (1550-1552)
2) Christian (1552)
3) Stillborn daughter (1553)
4) Maria (1555-1559)
5) Anna (1557-1621) m. John III of Sweden (1537-1592)
6) Stillborn son (1558)
7) Frederick III of Denmark (1560-1633) m. Sophie-Hedwig of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1561-1631)
8) Christina (1562-1563)
9) Stillborn son (1565)
6) Edmund, Duke of Somerset (1498-1500)
[1] He lives some years longer than OTL. Also I know Sidonie would probably be pushed to remarry but she refuses and becomes a nun.
[2] Children of John III of Portugal and Isabella of Austria.
[3] Healthier than in OTL.
[4] Children of Philip II of Spain and Isabella of Portugal.
[5] Son of Catherine of Austria and Francesco II of Milan, her second husband.
[6] Son of Henry Grey and Catherine FitzAlan.
[7] I know that she's too old and not low ranked for him but it wouldn't be the Tudor dinasty without at least one scandalous marriage.
[8] Granddaughter of Henry Percy and Anne Boleyn.
[9] Daughter of Sigismund II of Poland and Catherine of Austria.
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An updated version of my Empress Isabella Clara Eugenia‘s trees
As usual WIP, POD is Philip II deciding to not waste time in marrying Isabella and so she married her cousin Ernest with the Netherlands as dowry
Ernest I of Austria, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1553) married Isabella Clara Eugenia of Austria-Spain (b. 1566) in 1584
Charles III, Duke of Lorraine (b. 1543) married Claude of Valois (1547-1575) in 1559
NOTES: Jakobea of Baden here died in 1600
@VVD0D95 thanks fior having inspired me to work again on this scenario
As usual WIP, POD is Philip II deciding to not waste time in marrying Isabella and so she married her cousin Ernest with the Netherlands as dowry
Ernest I of Austria, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1553) married Isabella Clara Eugenia of Austria-Spain (b. 1566) in 1584
- Maximilian III, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1585) married Magdalene of Bavaria (b. 1587) in 1603
- Archduchess Isabella (b. 1586) married John Wilhem, Duke of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (b. 1562) in 1602*
- Ferdinand I, King of Poland and Hungary (b. 1587) married
- Archduchess Maria (b. 1589) married Maximilian I, Duke of Bavaria (b. 1573) in 1605
- Archduke Philip (b.1590), Grandmaster of Teutonic Order
- Archduchess Anna (b. 1592) married
- Archduke Karl (b. 1594), Archduke of Further Austria
- Archduchess Magdalena (1596-1608)
- Archduke Ernest (b. 1598), Cardinal
- Archduchess Eleanor (b. 1601) married Charles I, King of England (b. 1600)
Charles III, Duke of Lorraine (b. 1543) married Claude of Valois (1547-1575) in 1559
- Henry II, Duke of Lorraine (b. 1563) married Eleanor of Austria (b. 1568)
- Christina (b. 1565) married Ferdinando I de Medici, Grand Duke of Tuscany (b. 1549)
- Charles, Cardinal of Lorraine (b. 1567)
- Antonia of Lorraine (b. 1568) married Charles, Duke of Guise (b. 1571)
- Anne of Lorraine (1569-1576)
- Francis, Count of Vaudémont (b. 1572)
- Catherine of Lorraine (b. 1573), Abbess of Remiremont
- Elisabeth of Lorraine (1574-1504) married Maximilian I, Duke of Bavaria (b. 1573)
- Claude of Lorraine (1575-1576)
NOTES: Jakobea of Baden here died in 1600
@VVD0D95 thanks fior having inspired me to work again on this scenario
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Louis VII m. Eleanor of Aquitaine d. 1150(a) Constance of Castile(d. 1160 (b) Eleanor of Vermandois(c)
1a. Marie, Duchess of Aquitaine b. 1145 m. Bohemond III of Antioch
2a. Alix of France b. 1150 m. Alfonso VIII of Castile
3b. Margaret of France b. 1158 m.?
4b. Alix of France b. 1160 m.?
5c. Philip II of France b. 1165 m. Isabella of Hainault
6c. Eleanor of France b. 1170 m.?
1a. Marie, Duchess of Aquitaine b. 1145 m. Bohemond III of Antioch
2a. Alix of France b. 1150 m. Alfonso VIII of Castile
3b. Margaret of France b. 1158 m.?
4b. Alix of France b. 1160 m.?
5c. Philip II of France b. 1165 m. Isabella of Hainault
6c. Eleanor of France b. 1170 m.?
no way this wedding would ever happen. Marie would NOT marry a ruler of Outremer if she is Duchess of Aquitaine
Perhaps she can marry Raymond of Toulouse although that would be ASB if Eleanor is living.