Lions of the Lowlands: Netherlands TL

The butterflies here will be massive before long. Subscribed. Also, why would being a bishop have excluded John, Jacqueline's uncle, from the throne? Aren't there other examples of bishops stepping down to assume an inherited secular title and domain?

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The point I guess I horribly tried to put was that they were using his position of Bishop of Liege agaisnt him - I guess they would state that he had already given his life to the church in this example hence he should continue and let the rulership of William's lands be down to his daughter. Its more that Jacqueline is able to rule the lands so therefore she should rather than her uncle who already had a religious position.

Hope this makes sense
 
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The point I guess I horribly tried to put was that they were using his position of Bishop of Liege agaisnt him - I guess they would state that he had already given his life to the church in this example hence he should continue and let the rulership of William's lands be down to his daughter. Its more that Jacqueline is able to rule the lands so therefore she should rather than her uncle who already had a religious position.

Hope this makes sense

I think so.
 
Just as a Note I shall try and post the next addition as soon as I can. I have quite a bit of Uni work for the next week or so which is my priority atm for obvious reasons

Just something I wanted to mention to those who are interested in the TL
 
The butterflies here will be massive before long. Subscribed. Also, why would being a bishop have excluded John, Jacqueline's uncle, from the throne? Aren't there other examples of bishops stepping down to assume an inherited secular title and domain?

As noted John of Bavaria wasn't ordained. Even when he was, then under extraordinary circumstances he could be released from that. Moreover he did inherit Bavaria-Straubing (a part of the duchy of Bavaria), which followed different inheritance rules than the counties of Hainaut, Holland & Zeeland, which were inherited by Jacqueline (Jacoba) (this didn't mean that male claimants never challenged female heiresses; for instance the inheritance of countess Ada of Holland was challenged by her uncle, later, count William I of Holland).
Still the best way to strengthen the position of Jacqueline (Jacoba) and John (Jan) of Brabant's position would be for them to have an heir (an heiress could work too, the duchies of Lothier*, Brabant & Limburg, unlike the duchy of Burgundy, can also be inherited through the female line).

(*= the remnant of Lower Lorraine (Lower Lotharingia), though the ducal status of Brabant and Limburg is also strongly connected to Lower Lorraine; the duchies of Lorraine & Bar developed out of Upper Lorraine (Upper Lotharingia))
 
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As noted John of Bavaria wasn't ordained. Even when he was, then under extraordinary circumstances he could be released from that. Moreover he did inherit Bavaria-Straubing (a part of the duchy of Bavaria), which followed different inheritance rules than the counties of Hainaut, Holland & Zeeland, which were inherited by Jacqueline (Jacoba) (this didn't mean that male claimants never challenged female heiresses; for instance the inheritance of countess Ada of Holland was challenged by her uncle, later, count William I of Holland).
Still the best way to strengthen the position of Jacqueline (Jacoba) and John (Jan) of Brabant's position would be for them to have an heir (an heiress could work too, the duchies of Lothier*, Brabant & Limburg, unlike the duchy of Burgundy, can also be inherited through the female line).

(*= the remnant of Lower Lorraine (Lower Lotharingia), though the ducal status of Brabant and Limburg is also strongly connected to Lower Lorraine; the duchies of Lorraine & Bar developed out of Upper Lorraine (Upper Lotharingia))

This has been quite helpful, so thanks you for sharing! Well I would assume then in this case that John would gain the Bavarian lands from his brothers, but what I read stated that those lands went to local noble of the region? Am I confusing myself or did both happen in some form?
 
Bavaria-Straubing like Bavaria-Landshut was a dynastic division of Lower Bavaria, whereas Bavaria-Munich and Bavaria-Ingolstadt were dynastic divisions of Upper Bavaria.
These all came into existence, when joint-rule* was ''replaced'' by a division of the inheritance (even under joint-rule there often was a de facto division).
In this case it's a division of the Lands held by the house of Wittelsbach, when a line goes extinct lands stay a part of the dynasty.
IOTL when John of Bavaria-Straubing (Jaqueline's uncle) left no male heir, the lines Bavaria-Munich, Bavaria-Ingolstadt and Bavaria-Landshut divided Bavaria-Straubing between them.
John of Bavaria-Straubing already gained the territory of Bavaria-Straubing, after his brother Albert II of Bavaria-Straubing died.
Duke Albert of Bavaria: duke of Bavaria-Straubing, count of Hainaut, Holland & Zeeland, had 3 sons, William (Jaqueline's father), who was to inherit Hainaut, Holland & Zeeland, Albert II, who was to inherit Bavaria-Straubing and John, who was to have a career in the church (they would all inherit the title duke of Bavaria).
John didn't spend much time in Bavaria-Straubing, after he inherited the territory, he used representatives there.
(*= primogeniture wasn't established for many of the territories in the Holy Roman Empire at this point)
 
Thank you, I think I'll probably just follow [boring I know] the OTL events of John getting the Bavarian lands. Atm with Jan and Jacoba controlling over the Lowlands portion I cant really see a real reason for John to full take control of those lands.
 
Thank you, I think I'll probably just follow [boring I know] the OTL events of John getting the Bavarian lands. Atm with Jan and Jacoba controlling over the Lowlands portion I cant really see a real reason for John to full take control of those lands.

I was assuming that anyway :D
 

Prelude

Part III – Europe’s Power Couple [1418-1427]


Duchy of Brabant [1418-1423]

Though the two had been wed in 1418 it would be a while before either one of them would claim the crown of their respective Duchies or counties. For the most part Antoine continued to aid with the education of his son, installing an attitude in his son to expand his families reach into the lowlands [1]. His marriage to that of Jacoba, daughter of Count William VI, with the assumption of an heir between the two would secure his families control over important trading cities such as Antwerp and Amsterdam. In these early years it would seem that Jan was less interested in securing a lasting family power in the region with instead he preferred to delve around in the local nobility much to the annoyance of his father. He was a young heir whose wife was miles away in Holland; his mind was on other activities. Bitterly Antoine soon had to accept that his wife would be needed to reign him back in – in early 1419 he requested that Jacoba would move to live with them in Bruxelles. Though Count William was less inclined to relinquish control over his heir and only daughter to another nation, even if they were married, an action that caused much unneeded tensions between the two states. However in mid-April a settlement between the parties where the two would set up residence outside Breda – a ‘mid-point’ which better suited the two states. A minor building of residence was constructed from 1419 to 1420 for the couple and in 1421 they would for the second time in their marriage share the same home.

Their time in their manor outside of Breda was by most accounts comfortable. They would both get funding from their respective parents using the money to develop Jacobahuis [2]. Although only after a few months it would be Jacoba’s parentage funding a lot more following the acquisition of the Marquis of Namur in mid-1421 from John III of Dampierre [3]. The Marquis was offered by that of Antonie to Jan and Jacoba though it was rejected. It would become clear that Jacoba was the more dominating one in the relationship [4], which once again really suited both parties with Jan becoming more and more encouraging of his wife habits. The pair committed good relationships with that of their neighbours in Breda itself with Johanna and Engelbert, Lord of Breda. The pair’s time in Jacobahuis would be short however following the death of Count William VI on November 3rd 1423 forcing Jacoba to move promptly to Holland to secure her position on the throne against her Father’s brother whom she was afraid would steal it from her. Jan too would accompany his wife as she moved towards The Hague. He also sent word to his father requesting possible assistance to securing Jacoba’s throne. Jacoba would easily retain control over Holland using her husband’s influence in Brabant to also secure her control over Hainaut by 1424.

The Hague, County of Holland [1424-27]

Jacoba’s control over her father’s land under the law of inheritance brought with it issues, namely that of the conflicts between the Cod and Hook parties. The Cod’s continued to support William IV’s Brother John while the hooks looked towards the Union of Jacoba and Jan. Worse the Holy Roman Emperor too was looking into the inheritance situation of the Lowlands unhappy at the seeming expansion of the Valois family. Luckily for the pair the Emperor was too busy involved in the Hussite Wars in Bohemia to put much influence into the situation. Once again Jan would use his father in Brabant to help back up Hook control in the court politics for that of Jacoba while in return Jacoba would use her power in Holland and Hainaut to support Antoine in his control over Namur whom his brother John was grumbling about.

It would be in The Hague in 1425 an heir to Jan and Jacoba would be born, the two’s first living child and a son. The child would be named William in an unexpected move as it named after Jacoba’s father rather that of Antoine who created an awkward arrangement as Duke Antoine took it as an insult, especially given the amount of help he had given to Jacoba in the past years. Luckily for the arrangement this anger was kept relatively in private, with Antoine’s dreams of family control greater than his anger of the name of his grandchild.

In 1427 Antoine took would succumb to the end of life. It allowed Jan to formally accept his title of Duke of Brabant, Lothier and Limburg as well as Marquis of Namur. Antoine’s death officially began the creation of a powerful state in the lowlands and further created strife with the Holy Roman Emperor although once again he refused to personally intervene as he was still attempting to stop the Hussite Movement.

Kingdom of France [1422]

King Charles VI died in 1422 allowing for his son Louis XI to take the throne. His position was whole heartedly against that of the Burgundian influence, something which he was deeply committed to removing away from his crown as he had not forgotten the murder of his brother John, Duke of Orleans. In some ways this came much to Jan’s father, Antoine’s, advantage as he used the conflict between Louis XI and his brother John to secure control over his newly brought Marquis of Namur which John contested claim over. What complicated matters was that Louis was married to that of Margaret of Burgundy, daughter of the Duke of Burgundy, allowing him to exert some influence within the Burgundian court, further creating both tension and confusion between the two states. The birth of the French heir in late 1422 further solidified this control over his throne against the Burgundians.

-----Notes-----
[1]: The TL's way of showing a the formation of a more competent Jan as he still has his father to teach and guide him in the way of ruler ship.
[2]: I know I have probably butchered dutch so in that case I do apologise in advance! ITTL it supposed to be named after Jacoba by that of Jan as in 'Jacoba's House/Home'
[3]: Happen OTL although not to Brabant but to Burgundy. With Antoine still in control he had some influence over where the nation moved towards.
[4]: Even with his father's teaching Jan is still easily controlled by his otherhalf much like OTL
 
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