Linguistic World Map 1

So, I've decided that my new project needs its own little thread instead of hogging up the "Blank Map Thread." 1) my new project isn't exactly blank; and 2) it's a linguistic map, so it kind of needs a language thread. Having not found any appropriate threads that are still being commented on, I have made this special little thread for one purpose: to humbly show off the progress I'm making on my Linguistic World Map 1. So, without further ado, her is part 8 out of 58:

linguistic_world_map_1__wip_8__iberia__by_neneveh-dbleae1.png


Oh, and of course, the color scheme that goes with it:

l1_color_scheme_by_neneveh-dbi2aew.png


So, yeah. Boom. Nice map. I've already pumped out parts 6, 7 and 8 in just the last 24 hours, so I am on a roll. Expect Part 9/10 (which I'm doing together) for Italy, Malta, Vatican City, and San Marino.
 
You make a mistake about the Extremaduran language (Spain). Extremaduran is part of Asturleonés (you marked it as Asturian), but the territory that you marked as Extremaduran is "Castúo" a dialect of castilian/spanish.
Also, Mirandese (in Portugal) is a dialect of the Asturleonés language.
 
You make a mistake about the Extremaduran language (Spain). Extremaduran is part of Asturleonés (you marked it as Asturian), but the territory that you marked as Extremaduran is "Castúo" a dialect of castilian/spanish.
Also, Mirandese (in Portugal) is a dialect of the Asturleonés language.

Yeah, there are a lot what I'd call "language-dialects." I assure you this is not a mistake. I am using Glottolog 3.0 for this map, and according to them Extremaduran and Mirandese are their own separate languages. Other language catalogs may vary, but Glottolog is very good, and it's free to use.

So, to get to why you may think otherwise, Asturleonés is NOT a language by itself, but a language group. In this language group sits Asturian and Mirandese, all separate but related languages. Extremaduran is its own separate language as well, and is a related to both Asturian and Spanish. Just because a language is outside of certain area doesn't mean that doesn't belong there.
 
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VT45

Banned
I'm wondering how you came up with the divisions you did for what constitutes a language and what doesn't. After all, you seem to get super granular when it comes to French and (especially) German, yet you show the Channel Islands as speaking standard French, rather than Jerriais and Guerniais, which are widely considered to be separate languages, whereas Bavarian and Swabian are generally considered to be dialects of German.
 
This is a very impressive, very informative map you are devising. However, I must ask why you have not done Wallis and Futuna given that you've done the rest of France and its remaining, scattered colonial empire.
 
If you want to put regional languages in France, you might want to put them in dashed, no one speaks them anymore. I live myself in the part you colored as Breton, and I heard it spoke maybe once in my life.
 
I thank you all for your comments. However, some of ya'lls recommendations are not withstanding. Glottolog 3.0 is the word of the day for this map, and whatever they decide is a language or a dialect I follow. I'd use Ethnologue, but I don't have spare money off to the side I can tap into (perhaps LWM-2 will use Ethnologue), so I am using what many linguists would agree to be the second-best thing.

I am also basing this map off of a wonderful linguistic map series done in 2008-2011 by an actual linguistics professor. Scaling these maps down to fit a QBAM I will admit may be a little off around the borders. But the information, as I have gathered it, is accurate. DIALECTS WILL NOT BE SHOWN: I'm trying to make this a bit easy on myself, and also more viewer friendly then previous linguistic maps.

Ya'll may continue to inform me that I got something or another wrong, but just be warned that unless I do see an obvious screw up, I will not respond.
 
This is a very impressive, very informative map you are devising. However, I must ask why you have not done Wallis and Futuna given that you've done the rest of France and its remaining, scattered colonial empire.

I intended to put in Futunan and Wallisian, as well as several languages in French Polynesia and a few more in New Caledonia, not to mention Pitcairn-Norfolk in the Pitcairn Islands. The reason they were not included was because there simply isn't space for them. No blank green pixel for me to put a dot on, so they got officially canned. Eventually, I'll have list of all the languages that I wanted to include, but couldn't fit on here.
 
I'm wondering how you came up with the divisions you did for what constitutes a language and what doesn't. After all, you seem to get super granular when it comes to French and (especially) German, yet you show the Channel Islands as speaking standard French, rather than Jerriais and Guerniais, which are widely considered to be separate languages, whereas Bavarian and Swabian are generally considered to be dialects of German.

Just for you, I'm going to share my WIP descriptions I usually post on dA related to both of your queries. And again, do remember that I am using Glottolog 3.0 to descern between a language and a dialect. They do things a lot differently then, say, Wikipedia, where most people go to research this stuff.

- Incredibly absurd!!! Jersey and Guernsey speak.... FRENCH?!?!?! What??? Actually, these islands speak a few dialects of Norman, specifically Dgernesiais and Jerriais. Norman is the primary language spoken in nearby Normandy, which itself is a dialect of French (although, some may say that Norman is a separate language... my sources disagree at this time). Norman was actually a very common language on both sides of the Channel during the Middle Ages, as most kings of Britain were also kings of a significant part of France (in fact most English kings at that time WERE French, not British). The 100 Years War kicked out the British from France, and the British did their best to expunge French influence on their language by getting rid of English's case system. The Channel Islands are the leftovers of this cross-Channel empire, the only part of cultural France that Britain has managed to hold onto for the past thousand years.

Ah, Germany, where they speak everything but German...

Actually, Germany is a prime example of the blurred line between a language and a dialect. Most Germans do actually speak "German." But what kind of German?

You see, the German language is actually a general term for the West Germanic branch of the sub-family Germanic (the other branch is covered in Scandinavia). This branch forms the core of what is often considered to be Nuclear German, and aside from obvious offshoots like Dutch and English, all West Germanic languages are pretty much widely seen as one German language. This is not the case.

Western Germanic, according to my source Glottolog 3.0 (other sources will vary) contains 91 languages, of which 38 are considered to be part of a broad "German" language. This German language is split into three main groups: North Sea Germanic (Northern Germany), Franconian (Central Germany), and Upper German (Southern Germany). This may be a good time to clarify that the use of the terms "upper" and "lower" in most European languages refers to elevation, not cardinal points. Anyways, now to learn about the groups:

- North Sea Germanic: this is the home to the English language and its sibling, the trio of Frisian languages (Northern Frisian and Saterfriesisch can be found in Germany). Aside from these distractions, we come across those 7 languages in northeastern Netherlands. Believe it or not, these languages are considered to be German, along with Eastern Low German, Eastern Frisian (which isn't related to the other Frisian languages, oddly enough), and Westphalien.

- Franconian: the German that most foreigners such as myself would learn is known as Nuclear German, and it can be found in this group, specifically around Berlin. We'll get to that later, but first let me list the other Franconian languages: Lower Silesian, Luxembourgish (often considered its own language separate from German, despite being more closely related then the North Sea Germanic languages, for instance), Mainfrankisch, Kolsch and Limburgan (depending on who you ask, these two may be considered as one "Ripuarian" language), Pfaelzisch and Upper Saxon. Dutch and its associates can also be found here, but they aren't considered to be "German."

- Upper German: this is sometimes considered different from everyday "German," but as usual in cases like this, the debate rages on. They contain Swabian, Swiss German and Bavarian (as well as a few others that will be covered in the next few updates).

So, okay, the list is over. But what's the answer? Is there one German language or many more?

Well, that is a tricky subject, and it depends entirely on who you ask. If you ask the German on the streets what language she or he speaks, they are most likely going to say "German." This is despite the fact they may actually be speaking Westphalien or some such language to you. This is because in Germany, unlike most European nations, the mental distinction (keyword there) between the different linguistic, and thereby cultural groups, was eradicated between the World Wars.

Before WWI, Germany was split into several kingdoms and republics who all gave fealty to the Prussian King, the last of whom was Kaiser Wilhelm II. To an outsider, one might think that Germany before 1918 was united, but such was never really the case. People thought of themselves as Prussian, Bavarian, Saxon or Limburgan before they thought of themselves as German. After WWI, these disparate states of the German Empire cast aside their autonomy and fully united to form the first German Republic (the German Reich). The disposal of their partial-independence, coupled with the rise of German nationalism through the 20s and 30s, pretty much erased the lines of distinction between Silesian and Brandenburger, and every other group in between.

Today, these national identities that where so clear cut barely a hundred years ago can only be found on a linguistic map, where to this day the first language of most Germans remains the language spoken in that area in a time long past. To a person in Germany, it has been ingrained in their mind that they speak German, not some relative of German. But from a linguistical standpoint, they do indeed speak another language. And it isn't German.

What we know today as Nuclear German is actually the language of the once autonomous kingdom of Brandenburg, who's seat of power was Berlin (hence the Brandenburg Gate). Being the language of the capital has gained it particular fame, being the national language of Germany itself, and thus becoming confused with the other languages of Germany.

Which reminds me, there are a few other languages in Germany:

- Jutish has a small finger into Schleswig, and Danish is predominately spoken on the island of Fehmarn. Much of the Jutland Peninsula was given from Germany to Denmark after WWI (yes, WWI, not WWII), so I'm not sure why these two areas didn't join Denmark back then.

- Upper and Lower Sorbian can be found near Berlin. They are the language of the Sorbs, Germany's only native Slavic peoples.
 
If you want to put regional languages in France, you might want to put them in dashed, no one speaks them anymore. I live myself in the part you colored as Breton, and I heard it spoke maybe once in my life.

This map is focused on FIRST LANGUAGES. I'm sure most of the people in Brittany were taught Breton before they were taught French (especially the older generations), even if some of them no longer speak it today. My sister is a good example of such a concept. Her first language was Filipino, which she learned from her babysitter, despite the fact she came from generations of English speakers. Does she still speak Filipino today? No. But if she was to fill out a linguistical survey, she would mark Filipino as her first language. However, her primary language would be English, just as all of these Bretons you meet primarily speak French.

The concept of first language is different from primary language, although they are very often confused or thought of as the same thing. First language refers specifically to the first language you were able to speak. Finding this information is valuable to a linguist in that it showcases more definitively how alive a language is. If a language is on a good footing as a first language, it means that the parents are actively trying to teach the language in question, even if this language isn't spoken as much outside of the house (which would be a primary language).

So, even if all of those Bretons speak French on the street, I'm pretty sure a good majority of them were taught Breton as children from their parents. If that weren't the case, the information I'm using that was compiled by a linguistics professor after several years of statistical study the world over would be wrong. And as somebody with some level of experience into how such data is gathered (as an anthropology student), I can safely say that such a possibility would be very low if not improbable.
 
This map is focused on FIRST LANGUAGES. I'm sure most of the people in Brittany were taught Breton before they were taught French (especially the older generations), even if some of them no longer speak it today. My sister is a good example of such a concept. Her first language was Filipino, which she learned from her babysitter, despite the fact she came from generations of English speakers. Does she still speak Filipino today? No. But if she was to fill out a linguistical survey, she would mark Filipino as her first language. However, her primary language would be English, just as all of these Bretons you meet primarily speak French.

The concept of first language is different from primary language, although they are very often confused or thought of as the same thing. First language refers specifically to the first language you were able to speak. Finding this information is valuable to a linguist in that it showcases more definitively how alive a language is. If a language is on a good footing as a first language, it means that the parents are actively trying to teach the language in question, even if this language isn't spoken as much outside of the house (which would be a primary language).

So, even if all of those Bretons speak French on the street, I'm pretty sure a good majority of them were taught Breton as children from their parents. If that weren't the case, the information I'm using that was compiled by a linguistics professor after several years of statistical study the world over would be wrong. And as somebody with some level of experience into how such data is gathered (as an anthropology student), I can safely say that such a possibility would be very low if not improbable.

Yeah no, there was a break in language transmission about one génération before. However there is a regain of interest but the only ones that will know how to speak it are old farmers, enthousiasts and the maybe 5%population that went to a diwan school. For other ones, francoprovencal is dead except in Val d'aoste, corsican and alsacians are spoken in a familial context & with friends and occitan has a number of speakers but spread over half of France.
French linguistic policy has always been to assimilate and at our point in time they completely succeded for around 95% of the population.
 
This map is focused on FIRST LANGUAGES. I'm sure most of the people in Brittany were taught Breton before they were taught French (especially the older generations), even if some of them no longer speak it today. My sister is a good example of such a concept. Her first language was Filipino, which she learned from her babysitter, despite the fact she came from generations of English speakers. Does she still speak Filipino today? No. But if she was to fill out a linguistical survey, she would mark Filipino as her first language. However, her primary language would be English, just as all of these Bretons you meet primarily speak French.

The concept of first language is different from primary language, although they are very often confused or thought of as the same thing. First language refers specifically to the first language you were able to speak. Finding this information is valuable to a linguist in that it showcases more definitively how alive a language is. If a language is on a good footing as a first language, it means that the parents are actively trying to teach the language in question, even if this language isn't spoken as much outside of the house (which would be a primary language).

So, even if all of those Bretons speak French on the street, I'm pretty sure a good majority of them were taught Breton as children from their parents. If that weren't the case, the information I'm using that was compiled by a linguistics professor after several years of statistical study the world over would be wrong. And as somebody with some level of experience into how such data is gathered (as an anthropology student), I can safely say that such a possibility would be very low if not improbable.

Abslutely not, no. Even among older generations, no one speaks Breton anymore because of the centralizating efforts of the Third Republic which banned use of regional languages in schools. Any French people (in metropolitan France, I don't know about overseas, maybe Créole is their first language) has French as their first language. The only difference you would find nowadays is accents ad a few vocabulary words.

And "All those Bretons I meet" include myself, A Breton who was never taught Breton except from the most basic words like "Kenavo", like my parents, my grandparents, my great-grandparents and everyone else in Britanny. If anything, Breton is more of a novelty language that some people in Finistère learn in their pastime to reconnect with our more ancient culture.
 

VT45

Banned
Here's a more accurate map of the distribution of the Breton language as it actually stands. And depending on what threshold you want to use for showing minority languages, you're gonna either stripe a couple small areas of Brittany or just show it as entirely Francophone.
Percentage_of_breton_speakers_in_the_breton_countries_in_2004.png
 
Okay, well, as I said earlier: THE DATA AS I HAVE GATHERED IT TELLS A DIFFERENT STORY. And this is the story I intend to tell in my maps. If you have such a problem with it, then make your own map. Nobody is stopping you from doing that.
 
Okay, well after doing some research into my map source, it turns out that "significant minority languages" are given first rights to be on the map. I missed that not because I was avoiding it, but because a lot of the information I'm using is in Basque, as it was compiled by a Basque linguist professor. I apologize for the vehement upholding of these maps showcasing first or primary language boundaries.

That being said, I will continue to use this source. LWM-1 will become a significant minority language map using Glottolog. LWM-2, which I will begin making after I complete this map, will be a more realistic majority language map using Ethnologue.
 
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