Linebacker III

US airforce goes back to Indo-china year 1985
with B-52G & H models and with F-15 and F-4E escorts , plus F-14 from USN

vietnamese are bolstered with a sophisticated air defence system with SAM-4/6/8 along with MiG-21MF/yak-28P /Su-15 interceptors and few squadorns of MiG-25PD loaned from USSR

interesting air war over Indochina ?

p.s concentrate on aviation aspect ignore the political aspect
 
The Vietnamese would need lots of fighters just to match the Americans. The Tomcats would be a real problem, too, because those can launch from carriers.

If I'm the Vietnamese, I'm keeping the Su-15s and Yak-28s up as much as possible, and getting AWACS support. The Russians had figured that out by 1985, and the Vietnamese would need the help. They would also need the MiG-29 or Su-27 if they didn't want to be way behind on the fighter problem. The Foxbats are good, but not that good.

The B-52 has a big problem in that it absolutely requires air superiority, because its huge and slow. A great plane if you wanna blow up whole city blocks, but not good otherwise. That said, on airpower the US has a big advantage. If they wanted to press that advantage they'd bring out F-16s to smoke the radar/SAM sites.

If the US was serious, they would also try to get the B-1s into the action. That would be tough to do because they weren't ready yet in 1985, but they were close, and I imagine if this war a real fight they'd want the Lancers to take on bombing runs where the bombtrucks were just too fat to pull them off.

Another big problem for the Vietnamese - actually, probably the biggest in an air war - is the AWACS and the range of American missiles. The AIM-54 missiles have a range of better than a hundred miles, which combined with AWACS means the American fighters can shoot from long ranges. If the AWACS can be taken out, the Foxbats' powerful radars can make it a pretty event fight, because the American fighters would have to get a lot closer, to the point where the AA-11s can start making problems, particularly for the F-4s.
 
If I'm the Vietnamese, I'm keeping the Su-15s and Yak-28s up as much as possible, and getting AWACS support. The Russians had figured that out by 1985, and the Vietnamese would need the help.
agreed
They would also need the MiG-29 or Su-27 if they didn't want to be way behind on the fighter problem. The Foxbats are good, but not that good.
problem is every avalible fulcrum/flanker is sorely needed in eastern europe cant be diverted for this sideshow

If they wanted to press that advantage they'd bring out F-16s to smoke the radar/SAM sites.

or F-4G


Another big problem for the Vietnamese - actually, probably the biggest in an air war - is the AWACS and the range of American missiles. The AIM-54 missiles have a range of better than a hundred miles, which combined with AWACS means the American fighters can shoot from long ranges. If the AWACS can be taken out, the Foxbats' powerful radars can make it a pretty event fight, because the American fighters would have to get a lot closer, to the point where the AA-11s can start making problems, particularly for the F-4s.
good point although in a sky filled with hundreds of planes I dont think tomcats will be using the AIM-54 too much


what about soviet AWACS ? are they any good [ if they survive that is]


P.S TheMann I love your sig !
 
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The F-4G is not as fast or as agile as the F-16 is, and by 1985 the F-16s were out in force. I don't honestly see the need for the Phantoms here, because it's outclassed by 1985. If the Vietnamese do manage to get some Fulcrums or Flankers, then the F-4s are almost sitting ducks. You could use them as escorts for the bombtrucks, but it would make sense to get as many Eagles, Tomcats and Falcons out there as possible.

Without the later Soviet fighters, the Vietnamese are screwed on the air superiority problem, because the Foxbat is badly outclassed by the F-15, F-14 and barely matches the Phantom. The others are worse still. It wouldn't be much of an air war unless the Vietnamese had huge numbers and could somehow get rid of the American AWACS support. The Soviet Mainstay AWACS systems were good, but they would only be able to give the Vietnamese warning when the Phoenixes were airborne, and by which time they need to nail for the deck and run like hell, unless there is a lot more of them than there are missiles on the fighters.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
This would be an utter walkover. Ameri-wank to the core.

The MiG-21 was obsolecent by the mid-70's, the YaK-28P was obsolete, and the SU-15, while still in it's prime, is a pure interceptor (something that the U.S. stopped producing with the F-106). The best aircraft, by far, is the Flagon, but the design is almost as unmanueverable as a bomber making it, unlike the Fishbed, very vulnerable to the Phoenix (same as the Mig-25 & for the same reason) & the Firebar/Brewster is even worse, being a full Mach number slower than the Sukhoi & TWO Mach slower than the Foxbat. The Foxbat has been demonstrated as inferior to the Tomcat/AIM-54 combination (Iran was had the only Phoenix kills during the Iran/Iraq War) & the F-15 was designed from inception to defeat the -25.

The SA-4/6/8 are all decent systems, but by 1985 all of these systems were vulnerable to U.S. Wild Weasel aircraft systems (both the Standard ARM & the HARM greatly outrange the SAMs listed). This means the Vietnamese ADZ is liable to destruction by aircraft far outside the system's engagement envelope. The F-4E can operate the AMG-78 & -88, not to mention virtually all of the Paveway II LGB, the Maverick, Walleye, and other 1st & 2nd generation "smart" weapons. The B-52's would have access to the Tomahawk, yet another way to deal with the SAM systems mentioned (especially the SA-4 which tends to be static).

This would be an one-sided slaughter.
 
This would be an utter walkover. Ameri-wank to the core.

The MiG-21 was obsolecent by the mid-70's, the YaK-28P was obsolete, and the SU-15, while still in it's prime, is a pure interceptor (something that the U.S. stopped producing with the F-106). The best aircraft, by far, is the Flagon, but the design is almost as unmanueverable as a bomber making it, unlike the Fishbed, very vulnerable to the Phoenix (same as the Mig-25 & for the same reason) & the Firebar/Brewster is even worse, being a full Mach number slower than the Sukhoi & TWO Mach slower than the Foxbat. The Foxbat has been demonstrated as inferior to the Tomcat/AIM-54 combination (Iran was had the only Phoenix kills during the Iran/Iraq War) & the F-15 was designed from inception to defeat the -25.

The SA-4/6/8 are all decent systems, but by 1985 all of these systems were vulnerable to U.S. Wild Weasel aircraft systems (both the Standard ARM & the HARM greatly outrange the SAMs listed). This means the Vietnamese ADZ is liable to destruction by aircraft far outside the system's engagement envelope. The F-4E can operate the AMG-78 & -88, not to mention virtually all of the Paveway II LGB, the Maverick, Walleye, and other 1st & 2nd generation "smart" weapons. The B-52's would have access to the Tomahawk, yet another way to deal with the SAM systems mentioned (especially the SA-4 which tends to be static).

This would be an one-sided slaughter.

Which was my thought too. The Vietnamese would need to get Flankers and Fulcrums to have any prayer, and even that would still see the odds very much in the US' favor.
 

hammo1j

Donor
Why 1985? Wouldn't 1975 be better, to stop the fall of the South?

Don't you know anything?

1985 was the year Rambo went back into Vietnam to free the PoWs. I know it would be unlikely that he needed air support, since OTL he took on the entire Vietnamese and Russian armies, but once those Lilly Livered Politicos had been found out the first thing they would do to cover their fat asses would be to give the Gooks a good thumping in the air.
 
Don't you know anything?

1985 was the year Rambo went back into Vietnam to free the PoWs. I know it would be unlikely that he needed air support, since OTL he took on the entire Vietnamese and Russian armies, but once those Lilly Livered Politicos had been found out the first thing they would do to cover their fat asses would be to give the Gooks a good thumping in the air.
oh good God no ! Rambo dosent need any support and if any Mig dares to close in on him he can always shoot it down with a bow & arrow :p
 
Why 1985? Wouldn't 1975 be better, to stop the fall of the South?
its more interesting as we can use different airplanes than in 75
e.g soviets are unlikely to deploy large numbers of flagons and foxbats in 75 when both planes are relatively new
also USAF has no new fighters after F-4
 
Why 1985? Wouldn't 1975 be better, to stop the fall of the South?
its more interesting as we can use different airplanes than in 75
e.g soviets are unlikely to deploy large numbers of flagons and foxbats in 75 when both planes are relatively new
also USAF has no new fighters after F-4
 
If B-2 stealth bombers were used in 1972/1975 instead of B-52, while there would have been no bombers shot down by Vietnamese and no casualties, and therefore weak anti-war sentiments. North Vietnam would have been reduced to a country of rumble. Le Duan would have been forced to surrender unconditionally.

Certain we would know that B-2 was not available in 1972 or 1975.
 
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