Lincoln Sort of Loses to McClellan

No the commission will count the votes, not Congress itself..

You sure? I know such a body was set up in 1876, but I didn't know of any provision for one in 1864.

If there was one, who was on it? If it has a Republican majority it's not hard to guess how it will rule Politics then were, if possible, even more partisan than today.
 
McClellan winning in the way you describe would take such a massive flip in voters that I really can't see a path to it happening short of massive changes in the years before 1864, which more or less invalidates the scenario. Or time-traveling South Africans. Either way, not seeing it.

What? You're not making any sense. I never put the deadline in the election year itself. Just pretty much any sequence of events with McClellan still running but sort of winning this time.

You sure? I know such a body was set up in 1876, but I didn't know of any provision for one in 1864.

If there was one, who was on it? If it has a Republican majority it's not hard to guess how it will rule Politics then were, if possible, even more partisan than today.

Well in 1876, the commission was made after disputed returns came in. One didn't actually exist in 1864, but such a body is the only one capable of resolving disputed states. Although, I suppose in this case you might be right that doesn't really apply since none of the states have disputed returns, the only question is does Tenasee get to send its electors after being toldf it was a complete waste of time.

Manton Marble, the Pro-Peace editor of the New York World, that he was in favor of a ceasefire and negotiations with the Confederacy without pre-conditions.

First off, they weren't friends so this is a bit at odds with your claim that he told his friends he was in favor of peace. Democrats of the 19th century weren't afraid ofmisinforming the press just to get what they wanted. Still, we should take McClellan's words at face value since he didn't say anything else, so let's not assume he's lying at this point in time about his intentions at this point in time. A bit more importantly Also, in this case the ceasefire was without pre-conditions. This is negotiating in good faith that you come to the table without demanding stuff from the get go. It doesn't actually mean you concede anything without getting what you want. McCelllan was a war democrat right up to the convention when the peace democrats forced his platform.
 
What? You're not making any sense. I never put the deadline in the election year itself. Just pretty much any sequence of events with McClellan still running but sort of winning this time.
Going back that far changes the nature of the election significantly, meaning its extremely difficult to extrapolate. With an 1863 POD that has the Union in a significantly worse position by 1864 could easily preclude McClellan even winning the nomination, let alone the election. The general point is that Lincoln won by such a massive number of votes that you'd need huge PODs to give McClellan the election. You don't flip 5% of voters in 1860s elections, at least not without massive changes.

You sure? I know such a body was set up in 1876, but I didn't know of any provision for one in 1864.

If there was one, who was on it? If it has a Republican majority it's not hard to guess how it will rule Politics then were, if possible, even more partisan than today.

There wasn't/isn't one. The commission doesn't exist. Congress counts the votes how they see fit.
 
First off, they weren't friends so this is a bit at odds with your claim that he told his friends he was in favor of peace.

I never claimed that.

Democrats of the 19th century weren't afraid ofmisinforming the press just to get what they wanted. Still, we should take McClellan's words at face value since he didn't say anything else, so let's not assume he's lying at this point in time about his intentions at this point in time. A bit more importantly Also, in this case the ceasefire was without pre-conditions. This is negotiating in good faith that you come to the table without demanding stuff from the get go. It doesn't actually mean you concede anything without getting what you want. McCelllan was a war democrat right up to the convention when the peace democrats forced his platform.

No, he stated he was in favor of a ceasefire and then negotiations without pre-conditions; he can't say without pre-conditions if he's coming with the pre-condition of inviolable Union as you're suggesting. Nor was he a War Democrat forced to do anything, if he was, he wouldn't have been supporting Copperheads and he certainly wouldn't have waited until September of 1864 to repudiate the plank.
 
No, he stated he was in favor of a ceasefire and then negotiations without pre-conditions; he can't say without pre-conditions if he's coming with the pre-condition of inviolable Union as you're suggesting. Nor was he a War Democrat forced to do anything, if he was, he wouldn't have been supporting Copperheads and he certainly wouldn't have waited until September of 1864 to repudiate the plank.

Of course, much depends on how the war goes between November and March. If Atlanta falls a month or two after the election, and Inauguration Day finds Sherman marching to the sea, President McClellan is hardly going to call off the war at that point.

Could be a difficult postwar situation though. A Democratic POTUS facing a Republican Senate and possibly a Republican HoR as well promises the mother of all gridlocks.
 
Of course, much depends on how the war goes between November and March. If Atlanta falls a month or two after the election, and Inauguration Day finds Sherman marching to the sea, President McClellan is hardly going to call off the war at that point.

Could be a difficult postwar situation though. A Democratic POTUS facing a Republican Senate and possibly a Republican HoR as well promises the mother of all gridlocks.

True, the possibility is always there and I do concede that. Generally speaking though, anything sufficient to get McClellan elected is probably sufficient to ensure the Confederacy holds on fairly well into 1865. For example, we recently discussed something along these lines recently and I brought up the Battle of Peachtree Creek; Hood was in a position to utterly thrash Sherman by destroying first Thomas and then Schofield or McPherson as well. At that point, what's left of Sherman's army would need to fall back on Chattanooga while Grant would be forced to abandon the Siege of Petersburg.
 
True, the possibility is always there and I do concede that. Generally speaking though, anything sufficient to get McClellan elected is probably sufficient to ensure the Confederacy holds on fairly well into 1865. For example, we recently discussed something along these lines recently and I brought up the Battle of Peachtree Creek; Hood was in a position to utterly thrash Sherman by destroying first Thomas and then Schofield or McPherson as well. At that point, what's left of Sherman's army would need to fall back on Chattanooga while Grant would be forced to abandon the Siege of Petersburg.
I know this post was a little while ago, but why would Grant have to abandon Petersburg because of a successful Peachtree Creek?
 
I know this post was a little while ago, but why would Grant have to abandon Petersburg because of a successful Peachtree Creek?

Grant IOTL was advocating for it. In a situation where Sherman has been smashed, the War Department is going to have to reinforce the West and the only force they can readily rely on to do that well is forces from the Army of the Potomac. Grant's strength at this point was about 85,000 to around 60,000 for Lee, so a pullback is necessary in order to detach enough troops.
 
Grant IOTL was advocating for it. In a situation where Sherman has been smashed, the War Department is going to have to reinforce the West and the only force they can readily rely on to do that well is forces from the Army of the Potomac. Grant's strength at this point was about 85,000 to around 60,000 for Lee, so a pullback is necessary in order to detach enough troops.
Very interesting thank you. Any idea what the implications of this would be?
 
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