Liberal Portugal

But iMO, the real challenge will be the reaction of Holy Alliance, especially after their intervention in Spain...
IOTL the Hundred Thousand Sons of Saint Louis invaded Spain in April 1823. Prince Miguel's coup attempt (and subsequent death of the Constitution) was in late May.
In the meantime I don't think they had plans to extend the invasion to Portugal as well. If they did, Britain would be pissed.
 

abc123

Banned
IOTL the Hundred Thousand Sons of Saint Louis invaded Spain in April 1823. Prince Miguel's coup attempt (and subsequent death of the Constitution) was in late May.
In the meantime I don't think they had plans to extend the invasion to Portugal as well. If they did, Britain would be pissed.

That's what I wanted to know. Would Britain act to protect liberal Portugal? They ousted Beresford, but Portugal was stable British ally, so I doubt that Britain woud sit idly. And Portugal isn't so important for Holy Alliance as Spain.
 
That's what I wanted to know. Would Britain act to protect liberal Portugal? They ousted Beresford, but Portugal was stable British ally, so I doubt that Britain woud sit idly. And Portugal isn't so important for Holy Alliance as Spain.
Yeap, they considered Portugal was on Britain's... "sphere of influence".

Prince Miguel was however hopeful that the forces invading Spain would help him, that's why he tried the coup in the first place. The coup was co-opted by the king but even if it wasn't I don't think the 100,000 Sons of St. Louis would dare.
 

abc123

Banned
Yeap, they considered Portugal was on Britain's... "sphere of influence".

Prince Miguel was however hopeful that the forces invading Spain would help him, that's why he tried the coup in the first place. The coup was co-opted by the king but even if it wasn't I don't think the 100,000 Sons of St. Louis would dare.

I agree, especially when they IOTL haven't done that, and especially now without Miguel, I doubt that they would dare. It's not the same thing to do something like that when Britain will be against that.
 

abc123

Banned
OK. So if we take this POD and go on, who could be the first prime minister ( Secretary of State for affairs of the Kingdom ) in new, post-Constitutional Royal Government of Portugal? And other ministers?
They will be royal choice, as per Constitution, but I doubt that Joao VI would chose somebody who isn't liberal...

Their policies?
 
OK. So if we take this POD and go on, who could be the first prime minister ( Secretary of State for affairs of the Kingdom ) in new, post-Constitutional Royal Government of Portugal? And other ministers?
They will be royal choice, as per Constitution, but I doubt that Joao VI would chose somebody who isn't liberal...

Their policies?
That's a wildcard. None of those politicians had time to stand out. For an educated guess of who'd stand out you'd need a deeper knowledge of those parliamentarians. Alas, I don't have it by a long shot. :(
 

abc123

Banned
That's a wildcard. None of those politicians had time to stand out. For an educated guess of who'd stand out you'd need a deeper knowledge of those parliamentarians. Alas, I don't have it by a long shot. :(

The same thing with me.
:(

What if we use Duke of Palmela as primeiro-ministre?
 

abc123

Banned
OK, I will try:

Secretary of State for the Kingdom- Duke of Palmela
Secretary of State for Interior Affairs- Bento Perreira do Carmo
Secretary of State for Justice and Ecclesial Affaires- Jose da Silva Carvalho
Secretary od State for War- Antonio da Fonseca
Secretary of State for Navy and Overseas Territories- Inacio da Costa Quintela
Secretary of State for Education- Francisco Saraiva
Secretary of State for Trade- Jose Ferreira Borges
Secretary of State for Treasury- Manuel Fernandez Tomas

President of Cortes- Manuel Antonio de Lusignano
Vicepresident of Cortes- Filipe Ferreira de Araujo e Castro
Vicepresident of Cortes- Joaquim Pedro Gomes de Oliveira
 
OK, I will try:

Secretary of State for the Kingdom- Duke of Palmela
Secretary of State for Interior Affairs- Bento Perreira do Carmo
Secretary of State for Justice and Ecclesial Affaires- Jose da Silva Carvalho
Secretary od State for War- Antonio da Fonseca
Secretary of State for Navy and Overseas Territories- Inacio da Costa Quintela
Secretary of State for Education- Francisco Saraiva
Secretary of State for Trade- Jose Ferreira Borges
Secretary of State for Treasury- Manuel Fernandez Tomas

President of Cortes- Manuel Antonio de Lusignano
Vicepresident of Cortes- Filipe Ferreira de Araujo e Castro
Vicepresident of Cortes- Joaquim Pedro Gomes de Oliveira
Wow... so many names! :)
Regarding the Duke (then Count) of Palmela, it's a plausible choice to rise to the ranks of head of government. Even this early he's already an accomplished diplomat, well-respected and open-minded.
The rest I'm mostly unfamiliar with to contribute meaningfully.
 

abc123

Banned
Wow... so many names! :)
Regarding the Duke (then Count) of Palmela, it's a plausible choice to rise to the ranks of head of government. Even this early he's already an accomplished diplomat, well-respected and open-minded.
The rest I'm mostly unfamiliar with to contribute meaningfully.

The most of them are leaders of Liberal revolution in 1820 ( and not all of them real liberals, many of them members of nobility ). IMO Joao VI will put them in charge- if he allready accepted the Constitution, they are the right persons to work under such Constitution. I tried to make some sort of compromise between "royal" men and liberals...

Here's a few links about them:

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolu%C3%A7%C3%A3o_liberal_do_Porto

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bento_Pereira_do_Carmo

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inácio_da_Costa_Quintela

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_António_de_Sampaio_Melo_e_Castro_Moniz_e_Torres_de_Lusignano

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joaquim_Pedro_Gomes_de_Oliveira
 
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OK, this is my short start of TL:

So, Miguel dies in 1821. Cortes is still in session- working on new Constitution. The Queen is heavily hit with the news of Miguel's death ( her favourite son ). Pedro stays in Brazil, but is also hit with his brothers death. In meanwhile, independence movement in Brazil is stronger and stronger. Cortes asks from Pedro that he returns from Brazil. Pedro refuses- out of fear of dissolution of Brazil.
In meanwhile, Cortes works on new Constitution. The Queen while opposed to the Constitution is not so much into politics because of grief for Miguel.
So, Cortes accepts new Constitution, Joao VI takes an oath to the Constitution. Brazil refuses the new Constitution and independence war starts. After few years ( as in OTL ) Brazil wins and Portugal accepts his independence. Cortes, angry on Pedro because percieved his main role in independence of Brazil, decides that Pedro has lost his sucession rights in Portugal by becoming the Emperor of Brazil ( another country ).
In meanwhile, Joao VI dies in 1826. So Cortes pronounces his sister, Infanta Isabel Maria becomes the new Queen of Portugal in 1826.
Queen isabel accepts the liberal Constitution and the period of consolidation happens in Portugal. Queen Isabel Maria searches for husband in Europe- she wants to ensure the offspring and sucessors for her dynasty. Conservatives, without Miguel, easily accept the status quo and Constitution and start to act trough Cortes. So we have three main parties in Portugal: Liberals/Vintistas ( for even more liberal Constitution and liberal reforms, universal suffrage, responsible Government etc. ), Conservatives/Regenadores ( for absolutism ) and Moderate Liberal Party ( for Constitution of 1822 )...

What do you think?
Looks good to me.
OK. So if we take this POD and go on, who could be the first prime minister ( Secretary of State for affairs of the Kingdom ) in new, post-Constitutional Royal Government of Portugal? And other ministers?
They will be royal choice, as per Constitution, but I doubt that Joao VI would chose somebody who isn't liberal...

Their policies?
You can also use the Count of Subserra in a political position, since he was a moderate liberal.
 

abc123

Banned
Looks good to me.

You can also use the Count of Subserra in a political position, since he was a moderate liberal.

Hmm, maybe, but I'm not so sure about him, since he was in Napoleon's army, so puting him in Government would be insult to the Holy Alliance...
Maybe to send him somewhere far away, say as Ambassador in the United States or something like that...
 
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abc123

Banned
OK, so if we accept that Constitution was accepted in 1822, as in OTL, the King Joao VI made the oath to respect the Constitution, and without Miguel, Portugal has the new Government and enters 1823 as pretty much stabile country. Queen and absolutists are not happy, but they can't do a lot. Liberals have the majority in Cortes.
OTOH, Brazil declares independence and Portugal is in war against them, but Portugal lose as OTL and accepts independence of Brazil in 1825. It is allready time for new elections. I presume that Liberals will win again?
 
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