Li Zicheng and the Dynasty of Submission: Muslim China

I'm reading From Ming to Ch'ing, about, well, the transition from the Ming to the Qing.

There's an interesting point brought up, about the rebel Li Zicheng, who overthrew the Ming (and whose actions let the Manchu into China).

He might have been a Muslim. "It appears that LI was adopted at the age of ten by an old Muslimw oment o help her care for her horses. He received some instruction in Islamic practices during his stay with her but certainly did not convert".

However, "Later he became a postal station attendant, a popular occupation with the Muslims. With the start of the rebellions, his relationshp with Islam and the Chinese Muslims can be more easily traced. One of his prominent and most esteemed advisors was a Han Muslim....[and] though the number of Muslims who joined [the rebels] is uncertain, it is clear that those who did were a diverse group".

So, POD: As a youth, Li Zicheng travels with his old woman to a mosque, where he hears the words of the Prophet.

There's little change, in his role as a rebel. But when he takes Beijing in 1644, he proclaims himself Emperor of the Dynasty of Submission, and makes offerings to the Lord of Heaven, the Merciful, the Compassionate.

Hmm. To make it more than "Manchus kill Muslims", we'll have him not kill Wu Sangui's father, so Wu joins his army.

What now?
 
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Maybe China has another few civil wars, and along the way decides that it will rule over Mecca some day?
 
Bump on account of the possibility of me using this for my AAR. Is this a plausible idea? Could Li Zicheng convert?
 
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It's got to be at least a difficult as Catholic China. And the biggest difference is that a Muslim China isn't going to be able to get access to advanced weaponry that the Jesuits offered.
 
It's got to be at least a difficult as Catholic China. And the biggest difference is that a Muslim China isn't going to be able to get access to advanced weaponry that the Jesuits offered.

Why?

He ddi take Beijing, after all.

Granted, he'd probably remain "Muslim" while performing the typical rituals.
 
Why?

He ddi take Beijing, after all.

Granted, he'd probably remain "Muslim" while performing the typical rituals.

I have read that some of the Hui Chinese had synthesized some aspects of Confucianism with their Sufi-Sunni Islam... so maybe after taking Beijing, Li could propagate this synthesis among his people. It would have enough Confucianism to placate at least some of those scholars, while still being recognizably Islamic.

Once some people started converting, they would probably keep their old religions too. Would the Muslim Chinese tolerate that, or would they require that Islam would be the only faith the Chinese followed? My first thought was the former, but then again I don't know a lot about the Hui.
 
I meant the difficulty of having "trickle-down" conversion of the Chinese population from the traditional religions to an Abrahamic faith. A Catholic Manchu would have the advantage of having Jesuit advisers to help reinforce his faith and his ability to enact some changes in favor of his outsider religion... what support base could a Muslim Chinese dynasty draw from? The Hui? The Uighurs? Those minorities on the interior of China?
 
I meant the difficulty of having "trickle-down" conversion of the Chinese population from the traditional religions to an Abrahamic faith. A Catholic Manchu would have the advantage of having Jesuit advisers to help reinforce his faith and his ability to enact some changes in favor of his outsider religion... what support base could a Muslim Chinese dynasty draw from? The Hui? The Uighurs? Those minorities on the interior of China?

At this point I think the Mughals were pretty powerful and influential in Asia. There were also the rich sultanates in Indonesia, such as Brunei, Johor, Atjeh, etc... all of which would profit from trade with Muslim China. They could supply weapons and whatnot to Li if he captures a port, say on the Shangdong Peninsula. I don't know how much of an impact that would have, but it's better than nothing.

The Mughals could go through Tibet, because in the 16th-17th century the Tibetans were at least mildly tolerant of Islam. I remember reading that at this time the Dalai Lama actually met with a Muslim theologian in the late 1500s, so they would not stop Muslim merchants. So both the Mughals and Malays could support Li Zicheng.
 

Thande

Donor
"It appears that LI was adopted at the age of ten by an old Muslimw oment o help her care for her horses. He received some instruction in Islamic practices during his stay with her but certainly did not convert".

Was this book written by Susano by any chance? ;)

I don't think 'China ruled by some Muslims, possibly a Muslim dynasty' is the same as 'Muslim China'. How much effect did the Manchus have on Chinese culture in the long run? Some, sure, but China acculturated the Qing far more than the other way around, and it's not as though Islam in China is a novelty by this point.
 
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