Let's say the Crusader states do survive to the modern day....

Crusader States

Principality of Antioch: Greek. County of Edessa: Armenian. Kingdom of Jerusalem: Arabic. The number of western settlers was always very low, and with limited territory and distance from their mother countries, they will adopt the local languages.
 
Countries pass through danger periods and depending on how these danger periods are handled decides the fate of these countries. For Outremer the danger period was the simultaneous decline of Byzantium and unification of Egypt and Syria under Saladin. In the event this danger period was handled poorly at Hatttin, but as we know Hattin is golden AH fodder. Half of the danger period passed upon Saladins death, but by then Outremer was emasculated.
 
Countries pass through danger periods and depending on how these danger periods are handled decides the fate of these countries. For Outremer the danger period was the simultaneous decline of Byzantium and unification of Egypt and Syria under Saladin. In the event this danger period was handled poorly at Hatttin, but as we know Hattin is golden AH fodder. Half of the danger period passed upon Saladins death, but by then Outremer was emasculated.

Yeah. I think the problem is that the Egypt+Syria or equivalent power threat is something that can return again, even if we make Hattin anything up to and including a decisive win for the Crusaders.

The CS don't just need to avoid specific disasters, they need to avoid disastrous failure in general.
 
I don't think it's that bad. I think that if the Byz hadn't fallen to bits in the decade before Hattin Saladin would have been somewhat contained and Outremer wouldn't have been in such mortal danger. Outremer was quick to side with the Byz when it suited them, and I think if the Byz were powerful in 1187 the Franks would buddy up to the Byz at great speed.
 
I don't think it's that bad. I think that if the Byz hadn't fallen to bits in the decade before Hattin Saladin would have been somewhat contained and Outremer wouldn't have been in such mortal danger. Outremer was quick to side with the Byz when it suited them, and I think if the Byz were powerful in 1187 the Franks would buddy up to the Byz at great speed.

Assuming Byz cared - for instance, Alexius II in my timeline is too busy with internal issues and Stephen of Serbia being a pain in the behind - meanwhile, Saladin is the problem of the Franks, not his.

But not all possibilities are going to be like this.

Still, the Crusader States being dependent on the Byzantines being both able and willing to come to their aid is a relatively weak reed - better than "help from the West", even with religious division, but not reliable.
 
The Byzantines seemed fully content to allow Nur ad-din to ravage the Crusaders. I doubt they would change this policy with Saladin, especially considering he could be an ally against the Turks.
 
The Byzantines seemed fully content to allow Nur ad-din to ravage the Crusaders. I doubt they would change this policy with Saladin, especially considering he could be an ally against the Turks.

A muslim kingdom controling the Levant is one one thing, Saladins empire is a bit more than that and they wont want to deal with the Ayyubids for long, too powerful and too much of a threat to Byzantine territorial ambitions (of which the Crusader states are, seriously I doubt the Byzies are the key to keeping them around when their longterm goal is to either force them into vassalage or take them back ((especially Antioch)).
 
A muslim kingdom controling the Levant is one one thing, Saladins empire is a bit more than that and they wont want to deal with the Ayyubids for long, too powerful and too much of a threat to Byzantine territorial ambitions (of which the Crusader states are, seriously I doubt the Byzies are the key to keeping them around when their longterm goal is to either force them into vassalage or take them back ((especially Antioch)).

OTL, the Byzantines preferred allying with Saladin to the crusaders or the West.

And an Ayyubid Levant is a divided Levant in all but name, given how loose-knit the Ayyubid "Empire" was.

Meanwhile, the only reason Byzantine territorial ambitions in the Levant are Antioch and possibly down to Tripoli - Palestine can go wherever.

Obviously in the long run it would be nice to have it all back, but that's more or less part of the "It would be nice to rule the empire of Trajan" list, not an immediate issue.

Vassalage is more likely, but no one said the CS had to be entirely free of foreign influence, did they? They're going to depend on some powerful ally one way or another.
 
A powerful Byzantium would be something Saladin could not ignore, I doubt he'd want a large Byz army crossing Anatolia andd arriving at Antioch in 1187.
 
A powerful Byzantium would be something Saladin could not ignore, I doubt he'd want a large Byz army crossing Anatolia andd arriving at Antioch in 1187.

True, although even a Byzantium which doesn't have a bad ten years before that would still be busy I think - maybe not so busy as to be unable to put pressure on Saladin, but barring much different pre-1180 circumstances than OTL, Manuel's successor/s will be occupied at least to some extent with western problems (damn ambitious Serbian princes and thrice damned Normans).

But it does mean that after that's taken care of, the Byzantines can lean hard on Saladin or his successors - having a large Byzantine contingent in the Third Crusade would be possibly doable and definitely menacing.
 
There really is no reason the Crusader states should have a language. At least, not until the age of ethnic nationalism, by which time they are likely to already have a well-developed tradition of multilingualism. As to what the spoken languages will be, that will mostly depend on the way you get Outremer to survive (and that's a challenge on its own). One possible outcome I could see:

The principal language of trade and business is Levantine. Almost everyone speaks some. The Outremer dialect of Levantine (Oltramara) also became formalised in the nineteenth century and has now become the official language of the state, but it still has to contend with various minority languages.

French still enjoys high prestige and foer centuries was the primary language of the aristocracy and landed gentry. Noble families and aspirational businesspeople sent their children to be schooled in France, so the habit of speaking it never died out. There is, however, no native Outremer French - it has been subsumed into Levantine.

Arabic is the largest minority language, still widely spoken in large parts of the countryside. The ability to speak formally correct Classical Arabic has become a badge of identity among the Muslim population, but there are also Arabophone Christians. Almost all Levantine speakers also learn to communicate in basic Arabic, but few bother to study the language.

Aramaic/Syriac will barely exist at this point. Schools in Oltramar only use either Arabic or Levantine as languages of instruction, and higher education is in Levantine, French or English.

The various religious communities use Latin, Greek, Aramaic, Arabic, Hebrew and Armenian as liturgical languages, but of these, only Arabic is widely spoken.
 
The Byz were a practical people, this is why they would treat with the Islamic powers such as the Fatimids. Similarly they were happy to have the Crusaders fight the Turks of Anatolia and pick up the spoils. I think that if the Franks were going to fight Saladin the Byz would lend their support in order to knock Saladin down a peg or two and reduce the threat he posed to the empire. This support might take the form of money subsidies to the Franks, or doing some campaigning in the east to divert some attention rather than sending troops to fight with the Frankish army.
 
The Byz were a practical people, this is why they would treat with the Islamic powers such as the Fatimids. Similarly they were happy to have the Crusaders fight the Turks of Anatolia and pick up the spoils. I think that if the Franks were going to fight Saladin the Byz would lend their support in order to knock Saladin down a peg or two and reduce the threat he posed to the empire. This support might take the form of money subsidies to the Franks, or doing some campaigning in the east to divert some attention rather than sending troops to fight with the Frankish army.

What threat does Saladin pose to the empire? Saladin doesn't have any ambitions in Anatolia.
 
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