Let The Eagle Scream!

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Murica1776, Jun 12, 2018.

?

Does America enter WWI?

Poll closed Jun 20, 2018.
  1. Yes

    20 vote(s)
    71.4%
  2. No

    8 vote(s)
    28.6%
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  1. Threadmarks: Presidential Briefing: The Kingdom of Italy

    Murica1776 Building an American Tomorrow

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    Presidential Briefing: The Kingdom of Italy

    [​IMG]

    Introduction: Italy might be the nation everyone least expected to become a Great Power, yet here they are. In the wake of the Great War and the dissolution of Austria-Hungary, Italy is larger and more powerful than it has been since the Roman days.

    Politics: Italy is a constitutional monarchy under King Antonio I and Prime Minister Guido Meloni. Mr. Meloni is very similar to his German counterpart, being a moderate, somewhat expansionist conservative who hate Unitism. However, there are some major differences. Whereas Chancellor Hitler is against government intervention in the economy, Mr. Meloni has wedded the Italian government to big business, and major businessmen wield considerable clout in the government. More alarmingly, there are rumored ties between Meloni and the Italian mafia. While disappointing, this is not unexpected, as there is a history of mafia involvement in Italian politics. Meloni is notoriously stubborn as well, but our people think that threatening to reveal his extramarital liaisons to his wife ought to make him more pliable.

    Economy: The Italian economy is in pretty good shape, partially due to the close relationship of government and business. The territories they've acquired from both the War and the collapse of Austria-Hungary have been a small but helpful boost as well. While not exactly an economic powerhouse, the Italian economy is stronger than many might first assume.

    Military: The Italian military has historically been a bit of a laughingstock. Corrupt, incompetent, and ill equipped were the words used to describe the Italian military for years. Even during the Great War, some of these traits were still evident. This is not the case today. Today's Italian military is an efficient and effective fighting force under the command of a young, nationalistic, German trained officer corps. In fact, the modern Italian military might well be the least corrupt, most effective institution in the nation's history. The Italian Navy dominates the Mediterranean, and is helping keep the Greeks at bay. The Italian Army is world renowned for its desert fighting capabilities, honed in the Great War, as well as its skill at keeping the Serbs away from their Croatian lands.

    Mafia Connection: A key concern to both our government and the Italian one is the connection between the Sicilian Mafia and the American one. The Italians are smuggling quality wine to their American brethren in return for American firearms, which are much better than most of what can be bought in Italy. We lose tax revenue, they have a more violent Mafia. Plus, since organized crime isn't exactly picky about who they sell too, we could see Japanese or Russian troops with American firearms. This is obviously unacceptable, and harsh (some would say authoritarian) measures must be taken to crush this threat.

    Alliances: Italy is the junior partner in Germany's world straddling empire. They have very close relations with their Teutonic neighbors, and also exercise a fair amount of control over German satellite states in Europe. In the future, Italian desires to break free of Germany's shadow could be useful. For the time being, they're Germany's allies, and our allies too. Keep em close, and for God's sake, make sure they don't do something stupid.

    Italian Ambitions: The Italians have grown more ambitious in recent years, thanks to their wave of expansion. They desire France and Spain's North African lands, as well as Corsica. However, their real ambitions lie in the "Near Orient" (the Middle East), as well as Greece. The Italians desire to turn Turkey into a puppet state, and begin colonization schemes in Greece. They envision a "Greco-Roman" race taking hold there and uniting with Italy. The Italians also have designs on Arabia, Iran, and Palestine. None of these are terribly threatening to the United States, so they aren't a concern.

    Basic War Plan: In the unlikely event of war with Italy, the first goal must be to convince the Germans to stay out of it. That alone is the difference between a massive global slugfest vs us just grinding the Italians to dust. If that is impossible, see the Basic War Plan for Germany. If the Germans agree to stay out, things become easier. Using Liberia as a base, we can deploy large invasion forces to Sicily and North Africa. Destroying the Italian Navy should not prove too difficult, as long as appropriate force is utilized. From there, invading the Italian mainland shouldn't be too problematic.

    [​IMG]
    Prime Minister Meloni in his military dress uniform.
     
  2. Jim Smitty Lost in my mind

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    Italy not having a military that is a laughing stock? How many goats did they have to kill? :p
     
  3. TheImperialTheorist To theorize & imagine worlds of possibilities.

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    It’s more likely he had to sacrifice a lot of spaghetti.
     
  4. traveller76 Member

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    I am sure the Germans made them an offer they could not refuse. **Start Godfather music**

    I would think the US/Germans/Italians would be wise to emphasize the 'brotherhood of nations' and cultural diversity angle. 'We just want to make money, what language you speak or god you worship is up to you.'
     
  5. marcus_aurelius A BIRD and proud

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    Wang Jingwei as president is an amusing thought, although he'll need much more support from the military than he did IOTL to make an effective President. Then again, if Sun Yat-sen outright named him successor, he'll have sufficient clout to get things done.

    Marc A

    P.S. The following idea is crack: WI Sun Yat-sen was Frank Underwood to Soong Qingling's Claire? :eek:
     
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  6. Whiteshore Defender of Myrcella Baratheon

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    Anyways, maybe Yan Xishan might also be a major Chinese leader ITTL as well.
     
  7. jennysnooper87 Proud Albish Citizen Since 2017

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    Damn it. Now I can't get that mental image out of my head. XD
     
  8. marcus_aurelius A BIRD and proud

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    Depending on M1776's thoughts, I can see Yan Xishan either be an important supporter of Sun Yat-sen (autonomy optional) or a pro-Russian warlord.

    Marc A
     
  9. Whiteshore Defender of Myrcella Baratheon

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    Anyway, is Sadao Araki by any chance the Japanese Prime Minister?
     
  10. Threadmarks: Presidential Briefing: The Greater Serbian Empire

    Murica1776 Building an American Tomorrow

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Presidential Briefing: The Greater Serbian Empire

    [​IMG]

    Introduction: As Otto von Bismarck once said "One day the Great European War will come out of some damned foolish thing in the Balkans." Seeing the actions of the Great War and of present day Serbia, it is easy to see why he felt this way. The Balkaners are indeed damn fools, and the Serbs are the most foolish among them.

    Politics: Today's "Greater Serbian Empire" is under the totalitarian rule of one man: Dimitrije Ljotic. A vicious Serbian nationalist with grandiose dreams of conquest, his Serbian Unitist Committee controls everything in Serbia. Although Ljotic is unpopular with the general staff, he's revered by the population, meaning a coup is unlikely in the near future.

    Ideology: The Serbs are hellbent on first "gathering" all of the Serbs outside their borders into Serbia, and then pressing on to recreate the borders of the medieval Serbian Empire and cleansing the land of non-Serbs. They're also violently Orthodox Christian, and believe the Serbs have been chosen by God to save humanity from sin. To top it off, there is a massive cult of personality around Ljotic as the "God-ordained Savior of Serbia."

    Economy: The Serbian economy is rather small, but sufficient for a country of its size. However, without outside economic aid, the Serbs are unlikely to achieve their grandiose imperial visions. Which is good for the rest of the Balkans.

    Military: The Serbian military isn't terribly well equipped, thanks to Serbia's limited economic capacity. Corruption in the army is also a problem for the Serbian military, as officers skim resources to build mansions for their mistresses. Nonetheless, it would be unwise to underestimate the Serbian military for one reason: the Serbian soldier. Raised into a culture that has a long, violent history of conquest and resisting foreign invasion, the average Serbian was practically born with a gun, and is fiercely loyal to his homeland.

    Alliances: The Serbs are rather isolated from their fellow Unitist powers. Relations with Britain, France, and Japan remain cordial. However, Serbia is better known for having frighteningly close ties to Moscow. The two nations have rallied around their shared Orthodox faith and hatred of Jews and Masons. The Serbs also share a violently contentious relationship with the Greeks, since the Serbs view portions of Greece as "rightful Serbian land." Manipulating this rivalry with the Greeks is a useful way to distract the two.

    Serbian Ambition: Beyond the old Serbian Empire, the Serbs don't have any major ambition to speak of. That being said, their desire to recreate the Serbian Empire is bad enough. The amount of warfare and ethnic cleaning that would be required will destabilize the region to an unacceptable degree. Working with German client states should be a top priority.

    Basic War Plan: The Serbs are landlocked and far away from the United States. In the event of war, just let the Germans and their clients take care of it. We can contribute troops to the effort, but invading the Balkans to deal with one pissant country is ridiculous.

    [​IMG]
    A rough approximation of the medieval Serbian Empire, which Ljotic wants to recreate.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2018 at 1:45 PM
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  11. Whiteshore Defender of Myrcella Baratheon

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    So, is Ikki Kita a prominent Japanese political leader with the regime being under a "Showa Restoration"?
     
  12. Murica1776 Building an American Tomorrow

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    Jun 22, 2016
    I figure that Sun Yat-Sen gave Wang the nod before passing away.

    And lol, that's a hilarious image!

    I think he could be a pro-Russian warlord
     
  13. TRH Timeline Right Here

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    Slobodan Milosevic wasn't even born until 1941 IOTL. Honestly, the biggest problem I have with this timeline is this sense of rote recitation. It's worst in the early sections, with so much material that just recaps completely convergent OTL events, but it persists in the dependence on figures like Milosevic or Churchill or Stalin not because they make sense in the roles you've assigned them, but simply because their names are familiar.

    For Churchill, that remark he gave about "half-mongrelized Yankees" in post 125 is another example of something that makes no sense given his basic biographical information. Because Winston? He was half-American himself. It's one thing for Winston to turn against America in light of the broader political climate, but if he'd said what you wrote for him, even fellow Britons who agreed with the sentiment would immediately ask, "What about Jennie, then?" Honestly, the timeline would probably benefit from slowing down, and conducting more due diligence with characters and story, because it comes off as reliant on national and personal stereotype otherwise.
     
  14. TheImperialTheorist To theorize & imagine worlds of possibilities.

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    While I do agree that there are many historical inaccuracies throughout this TL, I can’t help but still be entertained by this. What it lacks in historical accuracy, it makes up for how bat-shit insane things are. To me, what this AH is like soft science fiction. Yes, it might not be exactly factual, but it makes up by being enthralling and a good story. I can see why you might be irked by how it seems unrealistic it may be to OTL, but it's honestly a fantastic ride if you just enjoy it.
     
  15. TRH Timeline Right Here

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    I don't see why the entertainment value has to come at the expense of basic research. I mean, there's another timeline with a similar premise, Story of a Party, which has Britain go authoritarian under Lawrence of Arabia, and it seems to make perfect sense in context. Using a 1990's Serbian villain in the 1930's isn't prioritizing story over plausibility, it's just lazy writing.
     
  16. President Earl Warren Well-Known Member

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    Jul 19, 2017
    Could you send a link im now really interested in this
     
  17. TRH Timeline Right Here

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    Pretty sure it went unfinished, but here.
     
  18. Whiteshore Defender of Myrcella Baratheon

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimitrije_Ljotić
    This guy would make a better leader for evil!Serbia. According to his wikipedia article, he "proposed that Yugoslavia be restructured along the lines of Fascist Italy to King Alexander I with his draft constitution being rejected".
     
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  19. TRH Timeline Right Here

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    Absolutely. And for me at least, one of the best parts of alternate history is the chance to shine a spotlight on guys like that who a lay audience wouldn't otherwise be familiar with. And for evil!Britain...honestly, it occurs to me that a real ironic figure to use would be Lloyd-George, given his OTL shift towards Hitlerphilia.
     
  20. Whiteshore Defender of Myrcella Baratheon

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    That or J.F.C Fuller. He was a military officer heavily involved with British fascist movements IOTL.
     
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