Less reactionary Muslim world

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There's one area on Earth, and that's where they are at today, and that was recognized in the Great War.
Ah yes to ethnically cleanse the Arabs from palestine from a land they once controlled thousands of years ago. Fuck the inhabitants of the land amiright. It eas recongised to gain jewish support not because they cared.
 

Khanzeer

Banned
Ah yes to ethnically cleanse the Arabs from palestine from a land they once controlled thousands of years ago.
I wonder how many of the jews in palestine from 7th to 10th century converted to other religions?
Maybe genetics one day will solve how many people are actually what they claim to be.For example arab speakers can be found from morroco to khuzestan but how many are ethnically Arab?
These are all contentious issues best to be left alone by amateurs like us
 
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I wonder how many of the jews in palestine from 7th to 10th century converted to other religions?
Maybe genetics one day will solve how many people are actually what they claim to be.For example arab speakers can be found from morroco to khuzestan but how many are ethnically Arab?
These are all contentious issues best to be left alone for amateurs like us
Pretty simple look at the genetics of the jewish popluation and then see they have no claim to palestine and then find out palestinians have closer genetic heritage to that land.
 

Khanzeer

Banned
Pretty simple look at the genetics of the jewish popluation and then see they have no claim to palestine and then find out palestinians have closer genetic heritage to that land.
I think archeology and historical records make it clear that Jews have very strong ties to Palestine
 
I think archeology and historical records make it clear that Jews have very strong ties to Palestine
Yes, but that was thousands of years ago by using that argument muslims have a 'claim' to spain and Portugal which they don't only nutters would claim spain and portugal now. If we go by religious links to the region then it gets even worse all three abrahamic religions then have major claims to it. Jerusalem itself not the same city it was during rule of kingdom of Judea, the romans destroyed that city and built modern day Jerusalem. By that argument italy has more claim to the region. Or greece but that's different discussion. We shouldn't be basing claims on archaeology as ignore the real life situation of actual population who lives there. Moreover the british recognition of the Balfur decoration was in part to keep Jewish population out of mainland britian.
 

Khanzeer

Banned
^ and greeks should have anatolia as turks only moved there a mere thousand yrs ago ?
This is clearly offtopic issue so let's stick to the topic at hand
 
Yes, but that was thousands of years ago by using that argument muslims have a 'claim' to spain and Portugal which they don't only nutters would claim spain and portugal now. If we go by religious links to the region then it gets even worse all three abrahamic religions then have major claims to it. Jerusalem itself not the same city it was during rule of kingdom of Judea, the romans destroyed that city and built modern day Jerusalem. By that argument italy has more claim to the region. Or greece but that's different discussion. We shouldn't be basing claims on archaeology as ignore the real life situation of actual population who lives there. Moreover the british recognition of the Balfur decoration was in part to keep Jewish population out of mainland britian.

I hate to break this to you but Jews have lived in Israel since before the Romans came, changed the name and burned Jerusalem. They lived there after the Abbasid invasions that saw Roman Jerusalem yielded to the then growing Abbasid Caliphate. They have done so in spite of the best efforts of all of their invaders and neighbors and while their population there has waxed and waned over the millennia as all populations do, they have never been "gone".

Perceived or actual, the problems in any religion are not the fault of any other religion. Much less the imagined fault of an entire ethnicity whose only "crime" is existing.
 
Speaking as a Muslim

1. Do not allow the Wahhabis and by extension Al Saudis from ever becoming the dominant power in the Arabian peninsula

2. Have the Arab alliance win aganist Israel or at least have the dominant Zionist ideology be a more inclusive/ integration based brand

3. Somehow keep the new states from being granted “democracy” by the USA

4. Have a more stable and reformist Ottman empire and prevent the partition of the Middle East between France and Britian

That’s all I have for now thoughts ?

You'll have to explain number two to me.
Or is it something simple like "Opposition against Israel (Zionism) allowed the loonies to flourish"
 
You'll have to explain number two to me.
Or is it something simple like "Opposition against Israel (Zionism) allowed the loonies to flourish

More or less isreal and Zionism allowed people to blame all there failures on those two rather, than what caused the problem. To some its similar to "Jewz control the moni" while some it emasculate the arab world. Powerful arab states all togather couldn't even get a draw with small little isreal. So people abandoned the ideas they held. Leaders the pan-arab leaders placed too much legitimacy on defeating isreal. Also leaders can use isreal as an excuse and divert peoples anger. Also then islamists can play the card 'well back when islam was the primary focus we did better' ie the good old days argument about the islamic golden age to a population that isn't well educated it works.

Edit: like to apologise if anyone took offense to my messages, really wasn't the intention, i did simply a terrible job at conveying what i meant.
 
If you regard the creation of Israel as a catalyst for extremism then surely the best solution is to have the Wehrmacht come to grief in 1940 and Nazi Germany collapse before the Holocaust. Millions of lives saved and the impetus for mass Jewish migration to the Middle East disappears.

Thing is though I think oil and the desire to ensure its uninterrupted flow means the USA and the colonial powers are still going to keep interfering in the politics of the Middle East and that is going to encourage extremism in the long run.
 
I think archeology and historical records make it clear that Jews have very strong ties to Palestine

Yes, but here’s the thing, the Palestinians are descendents of the Jews and Samaritans, White the diaspora Jews do have ancestry from the region, they have mixed with the neighbors in exile. Which should be pretty obvious when Ashkenazim Jews looks like north Europeans, Ethiopian Jews looks like Ethiopians and Indian Jews look like Indians.
 

JSchafer

Banned
Pretty simple look at the genetics of the jewish popluation and then see they have no claim to palestine and then find out palestinians have closer genetic heritage to that land.

If a global superpower kicked Arabs off to Indonesia or something, do Arabs have any claims to Arabia? Do they have a right to want to restore Kaaba if destroyed or do they have to respect that the newcomers have built a decent Baptist church on it?
 
You'll have to explain number two to me.
Or is it something simple like "Opposition against Israel (Zionism) allowed the loonies to flourish"
Israel was (and still is seen ) as another brand of colonialism and the fact that the established Arab states failed to even significantly damage it in 1948 was the catalyst for the rise of many Islamist groups who branded this as not only a failure of secular states but as a sign that Muslims as a whole have become weak and are still ruled by Europeans , in their view the only way to avert this is to revert to a mythical golden age of Islamic unity and piety (which didn’t exist in the way they think it did ). In the then uneducated and agitated societies that message found a solid following and the rest is history.

I think archeology and historical records make it clear that Jews have very strong ties to Palestine
Same thing could be said about Spain and Portugal with their past as Al-Andalus. Does that mean both these countries should be dismantled to establish a mezoarabic Islamic state and those who don’t like it made to live under what is practically an apartheid state ? Same thing with Native Americans and pretty much all of the America, shouldn’t they get their own homeland too ?
 

Khanzeer

Banned
^ arabs came as conquerors and colonizers to Iberia

Native Americans have special status and privileges in USA ,lets vote and see how many of them want a separate state ?
 

CalBear

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Well, I am in a quandry. I could kick pretty much everyone on this page for engaging in this particular VERY current politics fight, but that would take a lot of time and would just postpone the inevitable since folks apparently can't manage to stay in past.

Other option is easier, and probably the end game in any case...

Locked.
 
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