Les Carabinières de la Reine, 1585 - 1787

Since thread necromancy is bad manners, I post here some musings elicited by Challenge: Female Soldiers in the 1700's

As stressed in the original thread, this is very, very unlikely (even if gender roles became more enforced by Victorian times). Historically we had:
- Individual women masquerading as men to enlist (in uniform, fighting, but their femininity hidden): the last example I known of in France is Fatima, a Moroccan woman who joined the Goumiers volunteer to be sent to France in 1914 as 'Régiment des Chasseurs Indigènes' -future Spahis Marocains http://femmesenuniforme.blogspot.fr/2012/09/image-fatima-seule-femme-combattante.html. A few were so admired that, once their gender known, they were not only kept in active service but promoted, such as in France Angélique Brûlon who retired in the Military Invalids as a captain and was eventually the first woman to receive the Légion d'Honneur http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ang%C3%A9lique_Br%C3%BBlon, in Spain Agustina Raimunda María Saragossa Domènech (the only female officer in Wellington's army in Spain) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agostina and in Russia Nadezhda Durova 'The Cavalry Maiden' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durova who retired as captain (1).

- Individual women, acknowledged as such, in military uniform but not expected to fight: they mostly appeared in the 2nd half of the 19th C., as two very different types: as uniformed cantinières / vivandières (a French military fashion which spread together with the zouave uniform); but also high born ladies made regimental god-mothers / honorary colonels: e.g. Victoria Luise Prinzessin von Preussen for the Leib-Hussaren in 1909 http://www.preussen.de/Bilder/Geschichte/wilhelm_II./Victoria_Luise_1_-_Text_JK.jpg (I remember images of Queen Elisabeth in uniform, riding sidesaddle at the 'trooping the colours'). It was already not unknown in the (late) 18th C., we have paintings of Catherine II http://a51.idata.over-blog.com/497x578/1/21/78/82/divers3/amazone/amazone/chevaux-dans-l-art--amazone--cheval/portrait-equestre-de-Catherine-II-de-Russie.JPG riding in uniform of the Preobrazhensky Regiment http://www.oceansbridge.com/paintings/museums/new-hermitage/Erichsen_(Ericksen)_Virgilius-ZZZ-Equestrian_Portrait_of_Catherine_II.jpg (though wearing trousers and riding astride man-like is perhaps a little 'too much' for most women of the time).

- Women openly fighting (but most examples predate the generalization of uniforms), far more exceptional, in France Jeanne d'Arc but also Jeanne Hachette. This last is specially interesting, since not only she fought on the ramparts of Beauvais against the besieging Burgandians in 1472 but seemingly other women joined her to hold a segment of the curtain wall. So far we had only isolated individuals, here we have an all-female 'warband'. And to defend formal fortifications is a far less unlikely role for a 'regular' female unit than campaigning in the field. Several noblewomen became quite famous for leading the defense of their castles while their husbands were away (indeed there are still several well documented examples during the ECW and a case occurred in France as late as 1692 http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philis_de_La_Charce) and if most men had followed their lord they could have mobilized some of the women to drop boiling oil and stones on the attackers.
Lady Ann Cunningham http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Ann_Cummingham is also a striking example, so much the more as she reportedly raised a cavalry troop of men and women and led it in the Battle of Berwick.

- At last the rather mysterious Catherine II's 100-strong ceremonial company of Amazons raised in march 1787 by Potemkin (from wives & daughters of soldiers of the Balaklava Greek Settled Battalion) to escort the Empress during her visit with Joseph II to Crimea (because Herodotus had located the Amazons in the general area?): a whole regular unit at last; a ceremonial Queen's Guard is another not too unlikely possibility.

Thus I tried to combine these last two possibilities to have a permanent rather than ephemeral body: a troop of female defenders improvised during a siege and perpetuated as a Queen's Guard.
The difficulty is that in Western Europe during the 1700 -indeed between 1650 and the Revolutionary times- the civilian population of besieged cities was not interested in the defense, indeed not deeply in the outcome of the siege. War tried to be 'clean' and 'gentlemanly', unless the place was actually stormed troops were not 'unleashed', no murders, plunder & rapes; and for burgers in Flanders for instance to possibly pass from the rule of an Austrian Emperor to that of a French King was not too much of a concern. For the population, specially the women, to be motivated enough to fight one need a cruel civil war; the only example I can think of is the siege of Barcelona in 1714, given the atrocity of Philip V's repression in Catalonia -and it would require an independent Catalonia to perpetuate female defenders as a militia / city guard unit.

I developed my musings in France -being less ignorant of its military history, and France has a few favorable elements: the precedents of Joan of Arc and Joan Hatchet, Alienor of Aquitaine (remembered as French here) leading a troop of noble ladies masquerading as amazons during the crusade, and the great female knight Bradamante, developed in the Italian Orlandos and back-injected in the Matter of France (she was the heroin of a dramatic play first performed in 1582). Also, France had an interesting character with Julie d'Aubigny http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Maupin
For the possible uniform I concentrate on the mid-18th C., the 'heart'' of the Guerre en dentelle, my favorite period for military uniforms https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=8233587&postcount=6 (and wargaming). In France the most recent sieges implying a formed body of female defenders would date of the Wars of Religion (2).

So let's try: Les Carabinières de la Reine, 1585 - 1787.

Les Carabinières de la Reine: origins and history
During the Wars of Religions French countryside was sometimes akin to the Anglo–Scottish border by the time of the Reivers, with raids and counter-raids by nobles of opposite confession. During her wanderings of 1585 Marguerite of Navarre is threatened by a party of marauders and takes refuge in the nearest castle: the landlord is away with most of his men, but the chatelaine closes the doors and arms the women. At most a few shots are fired, but learning that the lady who defended his wife is a beauty Henri decides to create a female company of Queen's Guards under her command. His relationships with Marguerite were absolutely awful, but Henri ('Until I was 40 I believed it had a bone') was not the man to miss an opportunity to gather a group of young, comely maiden at his court [as a consequence, Marguerite stays with him instead of being secluded 18 years in Usson; wonder how many of her Guards she tried to poison -she's rumored to have poisoned Gabrielle d'Estrée, who had born 4 children to the king while herself was barred http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tXiY2A8nAM (3)]. When Henri became king of France he added his Guard to the French Household (4).
During the Fronde the Carabinières provided the direct escort of the Queen and her sons during their escape from Paris and their wanderings, to the everlasting gratitude of Louis XIV. In 1690, despite the opposition of Madame de Maintenon Julie d'Aubigny received in commission in the Corps and became its acting swordmistress, but she was too independent for military life and resigned 3 years later, though after her return from Brussels she occasionally reappeared as an officious fencing mistress. In 1692 the Company received two recruits of note: Madeleine de Verchères http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madeleine_de_Verchères was invited to join the Company, the expenses of the travel from New France to Paris covered by the Crown, and Philis de la Charce http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philis_de_La_Charce was given a commission of sous-lieutenante.
For reasons of his own Maurice de Saxe asked Louis XV to bring the Company when the king joined the army of Flanders: the Carabinières were at Fontenoy, but were forbidden to be part of the wild charge of the Household: they were the only guard Louis XV had kept for himself and the Dauphin - and they were riding sidesaddle.
Like the whole Maison Rouge the Company was reduced in 1776 and disbanded in 1787, but many ex-Carabinières, acting privately, gathered around the Queen when the revolutionary troubles began: many of them were killed defending the the Queen and the royal children when the Tuileries were stormed on aug. 10 1792. Their (ex)captain, Bien-Aimée de Labite de Monvoisin, was literally hacked to pieces while desperately trying to protect Marie-Antoinette and the princess with her body.
Louis XVIII did not resurrect the Carabinières, despite the pleas of the Duchesse d'Angoulême ; her own attempt during the 100 Days ("She's the only man in her family.") to raise an all-female royalist Compagnie de Jeanne d'Arc at Bordeaux was a failure.

Les Carabinières de la Reine: characteristic weapon and name.
It was stressed that women, being on the average shorter than men, where handicapped to reload the long-barreled muskets: but a man having to reload a mouth-loader while riding faces similar difficulties, and precisely a shoulder weapon with a shorter barrel war designed during the 16th C. for the cavalry, the carabine (rifled carbine), rifling balancing the shortening of the barrel with regard to range and accuracy. Thus the female guards received carabines, and in the same way as the Mousquetaires were named after their mousquets they were known as the Carabinières de la Reine. Of course they would carry a sword and a left-hand dagger (even when off-duty, being noble or assimilated (5) - the basic private probably ranking equal to a junior lieutenant of the Line) and often a pistol or two hidden under their skirt. In the early 18th C. the hilt of the main-gauche was modified to allow using it as a bayonet. To spread their weight sword and dagger scabbards are to a kinf of bodice / corset worn under the skirt http://24.media.tumblr.com/f8072dfb18174ac93ff5a48b420d8fe7/tumblr_mvwu24UPHn1qfbon7o1_400.jpg; 'pocket flaps' cover the slits of the skirt (or breeches).
And later Alexandre Dumas would write about the 'Trois Carabinières' (who were four) fanatically devoted to Anne d'Autriche and dueling with the Cardinal's guards (6).

Les Carabinières de la Reine: [18th C.] uniform
Colors: since the high Middle-Ages the two colors associated with French royalty were blue and red, because of the 2 battle standards the Bannière (golden lilies on blue) and the Oriflamme (gold flames on red). Blue being the main color of the French 'arms' became the King's color and red the Queen's. Thus, a whole red uniform for the Carabinières. From the late 17th C. most military uniforms had a second 'facing' color (on cuffs at least, later on lapels, turnbacks, collar...), it had to be yellow, red and yellow being the colors of Navarre. Such a prestigious unit would have 'gold' buttons and lace.
Thus the Carabinières are the only company of the Maison Rouge (Red Household) belonging to the Garde du Dedans du Louvre (8).
Ranks are marked by additional gold lace, following the rules of the Gendarmerie de France http://www.maquetland.com/article-1497-gendarmerie-de-france#1690.

Badge: appearing at least on the (small) cartridge box, but probably elsewhere (buttons, buckles, dagger and sword hilts, firearms...): with reference to Athena -the 'classical' example of a respectable woman in arms- and her gorgoneion, the Head of Medusa (not unknown anyway in military decoration, of guns for instance).

Cut: by the mid-17th C. women started wearing (mostly for hunting at first) a characteristic 'riding habit' http://www.kipar.org/period-galleries/paintings/1700/bourgogne.jpg clearly copied on military uniforms (though for comfort while riding side-saddle the coat is shorter than in the manly dress): http://janeaustensworld.wordpress.com/2011/12/16/womens-riding-outfits-in-the-early-18th-century/
http://www.pinterest.com/heileen/18th-century-riding-habit/ http://jeannedepompadour.blogspot.fr/2013/07/riding-habits-1700-1770.html
http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a5/6c/d7/a56cd70737c00f45d6ca4118a1a6f312.jpg (late 18th C.: see also 'The Duchess' with Keira Knightley)
(a fine example in 'Brotherhood of the Wolf, unfortunately not worn by Monica Bellucci: http://www.naergilien.info/movies/PdW/Reitkleid_rot_10.jpg
Thus by the mid-18th C. an uniform along these lines:
Being an 'Household' unit the coat would be abundantly decorated with lace:

Ceremonial uniform: when in close attendance to the King the Gardes du Corps (e.g. when acting as Gardes de la Manche [guards of the sleeve]) wore a decorated hoqueton over their uniform http://resources21.kb.nl/gvn/LEMU01/LEMU01_00112083-003_U.jpg; same for the Gardes de la Prévôté de l'Hôtel du Roi http://i41.servimg.com/u/f41/09/01/04/33/garde_12.jpg. In similar circumstances - providing the immediate bodyguard of the queen during the mass for instance - the Carabinières would probably wear something similar. Because of traditional representation of Bradamante http://operabaroque.fr/Bradamante.jpg (and some of Joan of Arc http://www.histoire-en-ligne.com/IMG/jpg/doc-216.jpg) it may even more explicitly cut to look like a (17th C. theatrical) reconstruction of 'ancient armor http://jean-claude.brenac.pagesperso-orange.fr/Alcina_Gottingen_2002.jpg / http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7eCyk1Y0998/Uhdicw0cSQI/AAAAAAAAm3Y/5eeMF-AOmuE/s1600/LOUIS+XIV,+1638-1715+King+of+France,+in+ballet+costume+for+dancing+at+Aix,+France,+1660+engraving.jpg and with yellow rather than white as the background color. With reference to Bradamante and Athena they may even wear with the hoqueton a (light) helmet instead of their tricorne https://www.knuckleheads.net/link4/3c1.jpg (with false eyes as a remembrance of Athena's traditional helmet). All in all not dissimilar to the 'Roman' pseudo-armor worn by Louis XIV and his 'brigade' at the Carrousel of 1662 http://a406.idata.over-blog.com/500x247/3/93/95/63/HISTOIRE/LOUIS-XIV/CAROUSEL/numerisation0001.jpg, but less excessive. By tradition the hoqueton would still wear the arms of Marguerite de France http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/53/CoA_of_Marguerite_of_France.png/414px-CoA_of_Marguerite_of_France.png. In such ceremonial circumstance the Carabinières would not wear a heavy partizan like the Gardes de la Manche but a lighter shortened spontoon / half-pike.

Off-duty / mess / social uniform: OTL for hot summer times (and also when the 'riding habit' became a kind of 'easy wear' of more general use) variants with more feminine details, such as cleavage, appeared: http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/e4/c5/9a/e4c59aa5dd3a07e0e36cb241f2865b46.jpg . http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-U1XgF9HWEE4/Ue1AFXqtSOI/AAAAAAAAmnU/bhk2xFuVLdY/s1600/Emercjanna_Pociej_n%C3%A9e_Warszycka+attributed+to+%C3%81d%C3%A1m+M%C3%A1nyoki+18th+c.PNG . With this uniform, thanks to a slit of the dress facing the left hip most of the sword is hidden under the skirt, only the hilt is visible so that the Carabinière can for instance dance without hindrance; the main-gauche is always worn openly.
When Marie-Antoinette played shepherdess, her guards wore this type of uniform with a straw hat decorated with tiny red roses.

Campaign dress: in the (very, very unlikely) case they would go on active campaign, since riding sidesaddle would put them in drastic inferiority, they would receive (red) trousers and high boots (light and soft, officially because like the Mousquetaires they are supposed to be able to double as mounted infantry) and would ride man fashion, shocking as it may be. Like most French heavy cavalry in campaign they would probably wear a steel breastplate under their coat -but in their case an 'anatomical' (not really 'muscle' ^.^) one, 'golden' (copper) with their badge in various metals and enamels.

Les Carabinières de la Reine: flag and musician(s).
Flag size: infantry flags were some 3 times larger than cavalry ones; while Carabinières service is mostly indoors, when escorting the queen's carriage they would obviously not walk (chivalric courtesy forbids it!) but would ride (sidesaddle), so like the Gardes du Corps and Mousquetaires (who also were on foot or mounted according to circumstances) they were given a cavalry standard. Appropriately less heavy, anyway.
Flag shape: cavalry flags were of different types fixed by formal regulations (rectangular étendards for the 'heavy' cavalry, bilobed or swallow-tailed guidons for the dragoons and hussars...) dating from the time when only 'leading' knights (chevaliers bannerets) were entitled to attach a rectangular bannière to their lance, while the ordinary knights (bas chevaliers / bacheliers / bachelors) they commanded had to be content with a forked pennon. All cavalry units of the Household had standards, but maybe, because of their exceptional nature, the Carabinières received a vexillum (OTL Frederick gave one to his Gardes du Corps http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Garde_du_Corps-Standarte.jpg, so there is a historical precedent).
Flag decoration: within the Gendarmerie de France the Compagnie de la Reine had a very distinctive standard http://www.maquetland.com/v2/images_articles/GendReine.gif quite different from the type used by the other companies (ex: Berry: http://www.maquetland.com/v2/images_articles/fra_gendberry_drap.jpg). The standard of the Carabinières would be quite similar, with Marguerite's arms on the obverse and a (golden) gorgoneion on the reverse (and, if indeed a vexillum, given that the reverse is rarely visible, a brass gorgoneion instead of a spear head at the top of the pole).
The flag pole is covered with red velvet, with brass fleurs de lys on its upper part.
Musician(s): probably playing drum (of a lighter type than that regulated for the infantry) on foot service and trumpet (maybe shaped as a diminutive hunting horn) when riding (being of mounted infantry origin the Mousquetaires, like the line dragoons, kept their drums when mounted but it would be difficult to play a drum while riding side-saddle; and women can well play trumpet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyEL3NJSHIk). As in all the Household cavalry and Gendarmerie the coat is almost entirely covered with livery lace (the Queen's instead of the King's, in their case); maybe the false sleeves are serrated http://bflons.pagesperso-orange.fr/Carroussel 2.jpg, to mark their difference.

Other female units, as a consequence of the long-standing French Carabinières:
In France
Before the Revolution: when the French King visited a rich city the wealthy inhabitants formed a Garde D'Honneur in military uniforms to ceremonially greet him; infantry and cavalry in generally gaudy uniforms, but sometimes with small groups taking inspiration from the Household, for instance halberders in imitation of the Cent Suisses. With a female company in the Household, some Gardes d'Honneur may include a female troop; specially if the Queen is accompanying the King, but, I know, poor Maria Leszczyńska did not travel much...
After the Revolution: no way before 1871 (unless Louis XVIII had the Company in his fully reconstructed Household of 1814) because of its association with the Ancien Regime; Napoléon and Louis-Philippe's Guards were emphatically different, in composition and nomenclature from the Household of old. *Maybe*, if women had actively fought during the siege of Belfort, a paramilitary compagnie de tradition of municipal nature? OTL there *was* an attempt to form a Bataillon des Amazones de la Seine during the Prussian siege of Paris, neglected while more than 1000 volunteers had registered and hundreds of artillery and cavalry carbines gathered for them (their uniform was to be black kepi pipped orange, black hooded smock, black trousers with 2 orange stripes). And many women fought during the Commune de Paris, most as individuals in 'male' units but the -understrength- all-female Bataillon des Citoyennes Volontaires of the National Guard 12th Legion was fully organized and fought remarkably well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqwRd1A7kX4.

Elsewhere, with a corps of female guards existing in France for more than 2 centuries:
- Less unlikely, Russia: Catherine II's Amazon Guard may last longer. And anyway, with the historical precedent of her Balaklava Amazon Guard, there is a possibility in the Late 19th C. Tsar's Escort: it was made of companies from the various 'exotic' ethnical-cultural groups of the Empire, some quite spectacular such as the Circassians parading in traditional armor. By then Ossetia was Russian, and Ossetian language known as related to Sarmatian and ultimately Scythian: so, in the wake of (post)romanticism / preraphaelism... what about a troop of Ossetian Amazons 'in the Scytho-Sarmatian tradition'?

- Spain (because women had fought against Napoleonic troops) for Isabella II from 1843 (or even 1830, when Ferdinand VII's heir turned to be a girl) - the Queen's female Carabineers being deeply associated with Bourbon absolutism??

Modern images of women riding in (pseudo)-18th C. costume: search for cavaleiras, the female practitioners of the tourada, the Portuguese mounted bullfighting; but nowadays they generally ride astride http://www.solesombra.net/images/stories/cavaleiros/img_2971.jpg, and the embroideries on their costumes are quite fanciful https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQRnwsHVyT29pCZbpOsYmbtALKO2GFiHjunvbTQOj2v8NORq-7Eyg. Very spectacular and inspirational, nonetheless.
Cavaleiras bullfighters were already a tradition of long standing in the late 19th C. (though they rode sidesaddle by then): interesting in the context of this post to have a 'Latin' culture allowing women to practice such a 'manly' activity.

Comments and criticisms, please (9).

(1704) Marie Adelaide de Savoie, Dauphine de France in a riding habit largely copied on the uniform of the Carabinières (but more 'decent' / demure -and less practical: longer, more cumbersome jacket and skirt -the Carabinières' coat was the length of a pet-en-l'air http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/b0/b0/f7/b0b0f7e0a19f17323a14d421ac246cea.jpg).

Regardless of fashion Carabinières never wore hoops http://costumes.org/history/leloir/hoopncorset.jpg . http://costumes.org/history/kohler/413.jpg / panniers http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/images/h2/h2_1973.65.2.jpg . http://costumes.org/history/leloir/panniers.jpg or even bustles http://pirateuniversity.webs.com/abus.jpg under their petticoat / skirt but at most an 'enhancer' (bum roll) http://i46.tinypic.com/a41ylx.jpg. Also, while the corset / stays of the time crushed the breast http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4997818390808607&pid=1.7 . http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/images/h2/h2_C.I.39.13.211.jpg, the Carabinières' low bodice / guêpière-like 'weapons belt' http://ts4.explicit.bing.net/th?id=H.5031847403717191&pid=1.7 on the opposite 'showcased' it: no doubt contributing to their 'fine figure / glorious look' often commented upon by men and women alike.
A final point, while when in 'palace' duty they wore low shoes http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/b1/76/69/b17669999f0ac7d252e1ccc6f46f41d9.jpg, they wore bottines http://beatricea.unblog.fr/files/2011/02/bottines1900.jpg when riding side-saddle in 'mounted escort'.

1: Btw are they old songs about such army women? I know of 2 examples about a girl masquerading as a boy to follow her lover aboard a warship (Jack a Roe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyAu4dbW4BE in English Chantons pour passer le temps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hX8YDNUVSs&feature=player_detailpage#t=12 in French) but none about land forces; while I suppose with the promiscuity and mores aboard in the 18th C. (the 3 pillars of the Royal Navy: lash, rum and sodomy) they are far less likely to pass unnoticed than in the army: maybe it was more a sailor's dream than a soldier's? Indeed if soldiers' brides rarely follow them on campaigns http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWJsjSnFj_c / http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxezR4rMg64 but generally declined to do so http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxPw6QPW2ZQ / http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyfo-Ft4ZWo and often married was he was away http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IysCrT8aSGU / http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCl17nrJOG4 / http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7_gOP-7cMk (though some remained faithful http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jUQIIHYwo0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RoYMMfTqefM#t=348) at least for soldiers there were 'girls along all roads' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhsC3YUyPL8 / http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYR1OHFSZp4 / http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGU7w7XZLrQ

2: the next opportunity being the Revolution; not during any of the few sieges by the Allies, they were done in the traditional 'decent' manner, but a siege by the Republicans of a city having rebelled against Paris and the Terror, Lyon for instance: not propitious to a perpetuation of the unit in following years! The same for the next historical opportunity, the Communes of 1871, indeed at least in Paris (semi)uniformed women fought 'like tigresses'.

3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfJZu_Bz6Yo 'The Queen had made do a bouquet / of beautiful lily flowers / and the scent of this bouquet / made marchioness die'.

4: Being intended to guard the Queen's apartments the Carabinières became part of the Garde du Dedans du Louvre (indoors Guard) while the Gendarmes from Navarre, being very 'junior' to the Gardes du Corps (raised 1422) became 'only' part of the Garde du Dehors (Outdoor Guard).

5: Under the monarchy everybody could enter Versailles (at least the gardens and the service quarters), but visitors were required to look 'not of the common', so swords were on loan at the railings gates of the Park for the burgers wishing to enter.

6: Would they manage? If they develop a fighting style of their own, favoring agility and speed (think of some martial arts as opposed to wresting), maybe? Besides, courtesy would allow women to keep using the main-gauche left hand dagger which was dropping out of fashion for men, and it may help?

7:At their creation in 1622 the Mousquetaires (like many other guard units before) had only to wear, when on-duty, an uniform cassock above 'free' civilian clothes (though for exceptional parades the king imposed an uniform color): they received a fully regulated uniform in 1673. Similarly at first the Carabinières were only required to wear a red waistsash when on-duty, though they progressively took the fashion to dress (mostly) in red and to wear red feathers on their hat, until they received a fully regulated uniform in 1673. 17th C. cut along those lines: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YuPglVSWijg/T2QwMNFJoDI/AAAAAAAAADE/6H-KZaGfEa0/s640/Recueil+des+modes+de+la+cour+de+France,+'Dame+en+Habit+de+Chasse',+1670+bonnart.jpg

8: Of 'junior' status the Gendarmes, Chevau-légers and Mousquetaires, also in red, belonged to the Garde du Dehors.

9: I had to browse the archives for some time to find what ASB stands for: I was initially guessing something along the lines of 'Astronomically Sized Bullshit':eek:.
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As you said, it's likely there will be women fighting in the sieges of 1871 against the Prussians. That may lead to some female french tropps afterward. WHich may have some serious repercutions come 1914.

Also, given the exemple, I'm pretty sure Olympe de Gouge is going to insist that women be allowed to volunteer for the revolutionary armies. So some troops for the French revolutions. Likely disbanded by Napoleon if he is not butterflied away, given the provisio about women's right in the code Napoleon.

Also interesting effects in WW2, provided it occurs as OTL (women troops available may just mean enough troops to cover the ardennes adequately, or hold the Meuse, long enough for the regular army to come back), likely more organised women from the resistance being elisted in the french army in 44-45.
OTL images of French female defenders in 1871:

Had women to 'manly' roles earlier -for instance had, thanks to the precedent of the Carabinières, French women be allowed to form Garde Nationale Volontaire battalions during the Revolution

With the precedent of a French female military outfit the IIIrd Republic may have enlisted the dreadful Dahomey amazons (a corps already observed by Europeans traders in 1729):

OTL the Tirailleurs Sénégalais received an 'Arab' uniform of the Zouaves / Tirailleurs Algériens type, but in dark blue, the traditional uniform color of the Infanterie Coloniale: thus the uniform of the Fusilères d'Abomey in French service would have looked like that of the Cantinières des Zouaves, but in dark blue (and without the apron and keg, of course):

Seemingly at the end of the 19th C. there was one female unit in the Canadian Militia that was more than a ladies social club: https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=4201705&postcount=19

With the precedent of the French Carabinières such units may have appeared earlier, and be less an utter rarity, in Quebec?

Mobilization of women according to Robida http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Robida

Robida was a science fiction writer and illustrator: for 'active women' just like for the uniforms of the male crews of the most 'futuristic' war contraptions (submarines, flying patrol boats) he took inspiration of the most 'modern' sportswear of the late Victorian times, the bicycle riding dress:

Robida's designs could well correspond to the actual dress of 'active 'women by late Victorian times.

Give her a pistol instead of an umbrella, a kepi (or pickelhaube or whatever national military headgear) and you get an 'authentic' image of a Victorian Science Fiction / Steampunk female soldier - manufacturers of wargaming miniatures should take note!
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Some informations about Catherine II's Amazon Guard in Crimea on the excellent Oderint Dum Probent blog dedicated to Russian military history in the 17th & 18th C., and full of rare information: 'Amazon company in Balaklava, March-May 1787' http://rusmilhist.blogspot.fr/2013/10/amazon-company-in-balaklava-march-may.html

Now if the unit is intended to be (semi) operational rather than purely ceremonial, the girls if intended to be cavalry (as 'Amazons' suggests) or dragoons in the same way as French Mousquetaires du Roi would be at a great disadvantage is having to fight riding side-saddle: they would be more comfortable -but still feminine and 'decent'- wearing a fustanella over breeches like Albanian and Greek males of the time.

(the images also suggest appropriate secondary weapons)
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Did you think those female troops will not have a impact in the french revolution, maybe some revolutionary will accept female to fight them and support female troops(but again is posssible they can make some 'attrocities' women are more vunerable to warcrimes that men) in exchange to better rights?

maybe that can affect prussia? one of the fredrecik armed some 'Valkiries' in example of the female carabiners(and later musketers?)
'Amazons' as used by Potemkin were a perfectly respectable 'historical' reference, without overt religious connotations; 'Valkyries' on the other hand are part of a *pagan* mythology, so -Der Ring des Nibelungen notwithstanding- I can't see their name used before Nazism. Even so, they were not basically warrioresses (they generally don't fight; even their association with the Wild Hunt is a late 19th C. addition), and their role (psychopomps) is not really one able to raise the morale of the troops(1), so they would appear only if the dying IIIrs Reich formed suicide teams ('See you in Valhalla!') from the Waffen SS.
'Schildmaiden' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shieldmaiden on the other hand lack such religious and morbid connotations, but would probably not be used before the triumph of Romanticism, and only in a defensive context (Miliz, Volkssturm...).
Brynhild is a fighter http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOLoAJv9VVo but, though called a valkyrie, is a human princess, not a daughter of Odin - hence a shieldmaid.

1: Going further than Dumézil explicitly did I tend to see them as the equivalent of the Maruts, having changed sex in the same time as role.

We have images of female warriors on Gallic coins http://theses.univ-lyon2.fr/documents/getpart.php?id=lyon2.2009.beck_n&part=159180, but their name is unknown -otherwise TTL Napoleon III, as passionate about Gallic archeology as OTL, could perhaps have used it for any female troops of the defensive Garde Nationale Sédentaire?

Btw, any specialist of Irish mythology here? I'm under the impression that the 'modern' vision of Morrigan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOMRnuW02yQ (also less explicitly http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rArCmjUd6O0 . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ1yajp6vVI) / the 3 Morrigna http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHKhcOq1arc is deeply influenced by the Valkyries?
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I expect so, except in extreme circumstances (I had them present at Fontenoy, but kept riding side-saddle in 'peacetime' uniform to prevent them from turning berserk like the rest of the Household cavalry). The only 'real' action I gave to the Carabinières, with a lot of casualties, was the desperate defense of the Queen and her children when the Tuileries were stormed in aug. 1792 - the role OTL of the Gardes du Corps, officially disbanded but with many of them still clustered around the royal family.
Nonetheless such Corps could be brought back to a real fighting role, during a siege for instance -specially in a 'passionate' context: civil war or 'patriotic war' with a strong ideological component.
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I had the story of the Carabinières interwoven for more than 2 centuries with OTL French history, and doing so I (deliberately) committed what on this forum is a criminal offense: I neglected (undervalued, at least) butterfly effects, keeping them restricted to the likelihood of female military units in the West.
The 2 months existence of a ceremonial body of Amazons in Crimea was inconsequential; the continuous existence of such a company in the French Household during 2 centuries would have other consequences, at the very least regarding the general status of women in the 'Western' culture.

And this only taking into consideration the direct 'causality related' butterflies and ignoring the 'generalized' ones. Proponents of such 'generalized butterflies' argue (there are several very interesting threads in the archives, e.g. https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=204992 . https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=182601 . https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=103981) that each (not trivial) POD creates an alternate universe (at least, for practical purposes, an alternate Earth) where history progresses independently from OTL. Historical accidents may not occur or have a different outcomes, e.g. OTL people are not born (during a few decades after the POD most may bear the same name but would be genetically different, given the lottery of fecundation) &c... After two generations entire Humanity would have significantly diverged from OTL and, divergences accumulating exponentially, soon would be almost unrecognizable. I few decades after the POD one is just writing fanfiction though hopefully a 'good' (credible / 'realistic') one.
For instance it can be argued that, while a 1490 POD in Europe or the Middle East leaves 'America' unchanged in 1492, with a POD in 1000 AD, without any change in the contacts across the Atlantic Ocean, the 'New World' by 1492 would be very different from OTL. Aztec and Inca empire could not be there, or at least would be very different. As would the Old World, of course. Indeed, while soon after any POD we cannot be sure what the ATL world would look like, the is one think we know for sure: it would NOT look like a copycat of OTL; a matter of statistics, OTL representing only one in a zillion of possibilities.
In the case of this thread, with a POD in 1585 Louis XIII, his Prime Minister and for sure Louis XIV can be very different from OTL: a different TYW, maybe no WSS, perhaps a less conquering Prussia and a different WAS : SYW, no French support to the ARW, a soft French Revolution and for sure no Napoleon...

This is specially true when discussing military uniforms, the original topic of the post. Fashion is, even more than most matters, determined by historical accidents and, until recently, barely constrained by practicability (1). With a POD in 1585 the slouched hat may not become fashionable in the 1620, and even if generalized could well not turn into a tricorn by the end of the 17th C.; the coat (justaucorps) introduced in the mid-17th C. (IIRC from a 'Persian' model), and the ancestor of our jacket, may well have be a short-lived fad. Not to speak of the wigs, of course. All in all with a POD in 1585 a swarm of ASB is required to have military uniforms in the mid-18th C. look like in OTL. Which I shamelessly implied, obviously (2).

But the 'generalized butterflies' are NEVER fully taken into account. Take Jared's amazing, awesome 'Lands of Red and Gold' TL https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=94408: thanks to an earlier botanical POD, more than 2000 years BC a culture in Australia is discovering agriculture (and thus, with time, urbanization and metal working to name a few). But the history of the Old World is kept unchanged:
"There is a butterfly trap used, which catches all butterflies before they can escape overseas. Aside from the contact with New Zealand, the "effective" PoD as far as the rest of the world is concerned is de Houtman's expedition in 1619."
Fundamentalist proponents of the 'generalized butterflies' could have argued that with a POD more than 2000 BC by 'our' 17th C. Europe would have very, very little in common with OTL (in the 'classical' Ancient World anything after the First Intermediate Period of Egypt is potentially butterflied away!) and that there would certainly not be people named 'Dutch'. Yet nobody complained, and for obvious reasons: Jared would have had to write 3500 years long *interacting* ATL for all other (sub)continents. A titanic work irrelevant to his project, and essentially gratuitous and vain: at this scale a few centuries after the POD one can write anything and the opposite (almost: biological, geographical, geological, meteorological constraints are unchanged, and chaotic phenomena tend to stay within the limits of 'strange attractors'). Or, to present things another way, the choice of an ATL among the zillions possible is entirely arbitrary, a mere matter of convenience.

Thus it is generally accepted that, thanks to an explicit or implicit 'butterfly net' history as we know it carries on at some distance and for some time before being hit by the 'ripples' of the divergence -radius and duration of the 'immunity' varying with the nature of the POD and the period (a POD in Europe at the end of the SYW would take weeks to affect India; to day a POD can trigger a salvo of ICBM on another continent in a few seconds). Or, in other words, one supposes that, among the infinity of possible ATL, OTL keeps applying (outside some fields, and for some time). Makes sense: it's not guesswork, at least everybody agrees on its likelihood and it is commonly shared knowledge: 'It ain't alternative history unless there's some history to work with.'

In my modest scale I ignored the 'generalized butterflies' (instantaneous parallel universe) approach -the uncertainty obtained would have made impossible to take up the proposed challenge 'female uniforms in the 1700). And I supposed that sociological inertia, the weight of prejudices and traditions, constituted a 'butterfly net' around the Carabinières restricting the impact of their existence to the likelihood of women soldiers. And this, only after they have proven themselves in the Tuileries. And, chiefly, only when a propitious -socially earthshaking- situation erupts: a bloody revolution, the nation in danger, the country invaded, civil war in the provinces....
Though I suspect they could have had some modest societal impact. For instance if following their precedent female Home Guard battalions are raised in september 1792 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lev%C3%A9e_en_masse#The_French_Revolutionary_Wars French women granted full suffrage by the Constitution de l'An I http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Constitution_of_1793 (the 1793 Déclaration des droits de l'homme et du citoyen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_the_Rights_of_Man_and_Citizen_of_1793 taking at last into account the Pétition des Femmes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_Petition_to_the_National_Assembly, Condorcet's De l'admission des femmes au droit de cité http://oll.libertyfund.org/index.php?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php?title=1013&Itemid=99999999, Olympe de Gouges' Déclaration des Droits de la Femme et de la Citoyenne http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_the_Rights_of_Woman_and_the_Female_Citizen, Etta Palm d'Aelders' Sur l´injustice des Loix en faveur des Hommes, au dépens de Femmes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etta_Palm_d'Aelders and Guyomar's De l'égalité politique entre les individus -for sure to the great satisfaction of Mary Wollstonecraft http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Vindication_of_the_Rights_of_Woman)... but losing it with the ultra-conservative Constitution de l'An III http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Constitution_of_1795.

1: Maurice de Saxe devised a military uniform taking only practicability into account, each and every minute detail discussed and justified with the soldier's health as the major concern http://archive.org/details/reveriesormemoir00saxe:

Needless to say it did not catch....

2: The challenge required implicitly that any 18th C. female uniform would be inspired by male ones: -as OTL women riding habits were, but ATL it could be different, say, inspired from theatrical reconstruction of 'Ancient Amazons' costume. And chiefly it required that we still *know* what 18th C. uniform -basically civilan clothes in uniform colors- looked like. For butterflies fundamentalists with a POD in 1585 a large beret or a Montero cap may have became fashionable instead of the slouched hat. The coat / justaucorps may well not have appeared and the doublet / pourpoint may have evolved, though with a fad of orientalism it may well be open on the shoulder and the side, not in the middle of the front -and what about its collar? Men could well be still wearing cloaks, even if they have received sleeves they would be very different from OTL great coats. Breeches may still stop above the knee, or have evolved to a kind of divided skirt (OTL rhingrave), and what about the codpiece? Unless men wear a short skirt / Ancient tunic straight above their hose, or have adopted 'Turkish' baggy trousers. In short all we know about ATL 18th C. uniforms is that they are left to our imagination with this one for instance
being as plausible as any other, the only thing almost certain being that they are in all likelihood totally different from OTL, and we are left with nothing to discuss.
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As you mention, beside proved that women can be soldier(mostly minor nobles or daugther of military men) as the unit being ceremonial, the impact in null in major term, the only way that was a rebellion(Fronde perphas?) that the Carabinieres save the king or won the battle so spectucallry that they decided to make women regulars alongside the army.

One idea of mine was created an all-female army in prussia(if frederick I take a fascination in giants, why not women? ;) :cool: ) but those were always behind a men and under their direct order(ie a male sargent would easily have full rule over a female lieutenat) but never propelly develpomt..maybe here can be possible?

and we forgot france biggest even in history: The Revolution, what if female unit declare loyal to revolution and start demand equal rights now the can fight properly alongside men and that have happenes since almost two centuries?
I had the Carabinières surviving the disapproval of Mme de Maintenon (who had very different ideas about the education and role of women http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maison_royale_de_Saint-Louis) only because they had escorted the future Louis XIV during the Fronde -though probably without having to do more than look determined and fire a few deterring shots. They were less out-of-place under the Régence and later were well established (1).

And I feel their impact would be quite limited, in the military even more than societal level. Catherine II may keep her Amazons until her death, for instance; but as for 'real' fighting units -of sizeable strength and recruited from commoners- I see them raised only in extreme circumstances, and actually fighting only in desperate situations.
I mentioned the siege of Barcelona (maybe that of Vienna if lasting longer and looking more hopeless??) but indeed the French Revolution is the most propitious moment.

Women were indeed extremely active during the French Revolution -in the streets, in meetings and at the Assembly whenever invited (or having invited themselves) to speak (they were not eligible, 'of course'). It was a crowd of women who marched on Versailles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_March_on_Versailles to bring the royal family to Paris in October 1789.

It can be argued that the mass actors of the Revolution were men of popular classes and women of all origins, both eventually screwed by the conservative patriarchal bourgeoisie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueA-q4zMEMg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyPdVt-KtmM
The best known of these women is Olympe de Gouges http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympe_de_Gouges, author of the "Declaration of the Rights of Woman and the Female Citizen", but other women such as Pauline Léon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Léon (co-founder with Claire Lacombe, wounded during the storming of the Tuileries, of the Society of Revolutionary Republican Women) and Theroigne de Mericourt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theroigne_de_Mericourt explicitly asked for the creation of battalions of female volunteers. OTL it did not pass (the 'hysteria' of revolutionary women made even most of male revolutionary leaders feel uncomfortable, and women were progressively forbidden to enter the Assembly, to attend political meetings, to have political clubs of their own, and eventually any gathering of more than 5 women was forbidden!). But with the precedent of the Carabinières such female battalions may well have been allowed when 'the country was in danger' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_patrie_en_danger and the Levée en masse http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levée_en_masse ordered.

[Maybe the colorful and short-lived Ecole de Mars http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/École_de_Mars would have be coeducational?

Just imagine these with a riding skirt. Or even, given that the 'tunic' already looked like a mini-dress (it indeed elicited bawdy comments and mischievous rumors about 'bad behaviors' in the dormitories by then) and the whole silhouette not unlike that of the cantinières during the 2nd Empire, keep it unchanged -the girls would be at a great disadvantage is having to fight riding side-saddle.]

Such battalions would have freed thousands of men for the field armies, but would have they actually *fought* themselves? Not that they would not have be willing -women fought during the Revolution, from the storming of the Bastille to that of the Tuileries. But there would have be an extreme reluctance to put them in great danger. The most likely circumstance is a siege (when women are less disadvantaged by their lighter build, anyway): women fought during the siege of Paris by the Versaillais in 1871 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Commune#Assault / http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3leg9LNV-fQ / http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-mvvYVaeKQ; a civil war, where passions are exacerbated, but with the precedent of the Carabinières revolutionary women would have fought during a desperate siege. The problem is, if the Revolution unfolds as OTL, no siege of a Republican town was pushed far enough to justify such extreme measure. Only sieges of cities having rebelled against Paris -Lyon, specially http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_of_Lyon_against_the_National_Convention- were 'feverish' enough to have women fighting in defense (2).
[Hence these Chasseurette and Hussarettes volunteers http://notjustoldschool.blogspot.fr/search/label/Hussarettes

are not to be taken *too* seriously.]

'Marie-Antoinette presenting Olympe de Gouges' Déclaration des droits de la femme et de la citoyenne to Louis XVI'
Did not happen OTL, but had Marie-Antoinette be surrounded with female guards since her arrival in France, who knows?

The Directory and even more the Consulate and Empire were socially reactionary (despite the official right to divorce women had in practice less rights under the Code Napoléon than under the Ancien Régime), such units would have be disbanded after Thermidor. Napoleon would certainly not raise them, at least not before the campaign of France of 1814 http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campagne_de_France_(1814), when the National Guard was strengthened and mobilized to reinforce fortress garrisons and some Corps Francs raised in the threatened regions (3). The Restoration is unlikely to have such units, the same for Napoleon III unless some heroic deed of a female unit in 1814. Female battalions would reappear in France only after the disaster of Sedan, when the population spontaneously formed a multitude of more or less irregular Corps Francs. They would have see action at least during the siege of Belfort http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Belfort. And maybe female Mobiles from Lyon would have fought at Nuits-Saint-Georges http://aufildesmotsetdelhistoire.unblog.fr/2011/11/20/le-20-novembre-1870-le-combat-de-nuits-saint-georges/ and be granted a monument of their own on the Croix-Rousse hill between Rhone and Saone after the war?

Above: contemporary images of female Gardes Mobiles during the Commune of 1871

As for Prussia, frankly I can't see female units raised in the 18th C.: the Potsdam Giant Grenadiers show that Frederick William was obsessed with 'virility' and Frederic II was gay. Indeed female German soldiers would not be raised before the 'earthquake' of the Napoleonic wars (re. the rebellions led by Andreas Hofer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_Hofer and Ferdinand von Schill http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_von_Schill / http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenn_alle_untreu_werden : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUS2vxJbBYQ). Specially, with the precedent of the French Carabinières I can easily imagine (beautiful) Konigin Luise , the embodiment of Prussian resistance to Napoleon, raising a body of Amazons after Jena or Tilsit.

(too early to have them called Schildmaiden, I fear).
Had such unit be perpetuated after 1815 (possibly as late as 1918) it would had turned to a social club for daughters of the nobility.

1: The Carabinières could have known a delicate moment in the 18th C. when the Europeans discovered female regiments in India (in the late 18th C. the Nizam of Hyderabad had 'following an old tradition' a regiment of female soldiers to guard his harem and escort his wives when traveling http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=324517; same thing in Afghanistan a century later; it may be far fetched to see such units perpetuating the tradition of the Maiden Guards of Ancient India, though the Khmer also had such a troop of female guards later, ie at an 'intermediate' date). Female guards were at the risk of appearing as a 'heathen' / 'primitive' practice; but 'Turqueries' were then all the rage and most people did not really distinguish between Turks, Persians and Indians, so the existence of the Carabinières was rather comforted.

2: A few royalist women probably fought in Brittany and Vendée http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Céleste_Bulkeley -the Spanish guerilleras during the Napoleonic period show that an ultra-Catholic background is fully compatible with female fighters. With the precedent of the Carabinières they would have be more numerous, some of them converged in an unit of their own in the Grande Armée Catholique et Royale http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYWjSfXspNI . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpglCipr_Xk, perhaps under the patronage of Joan of Arc? Don't forget the kamikaze assassination of Marat by the Girondin Charlotte Corday http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Corday.

3: Napoleon had the Pupilles Impériaux (orphaned young sons of Dutch and Belgian soldiers) attached to the Imperial Guard; they were commonly (though never officially) known as the Garde du Roi de Rome. Had a daughter be born to Napoleon he may well have formed a honorary Garde de la Princesse Impériale from the most deserving schoolgirls of the Maisons d'éducation de la Légion d'Honneur http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maison_d'éducation_de_la_Légion_d'honneur. Probable major uniform color: green (like OTL male 'wards'), the main color of the Imperial Household and livery.
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