Leopold Joseph second born son of Leopold I survives

So, otl, Holy Roman Emperor Leopold I had two surviving sons, Joseph and Charles. Both of whom became Holy Roman Emperor after their father. However, Leopold also had another son named Leopold Joseph born in 1682, however, he died young in 1684. If this kid had survived, would it have been him who Leopold would've propped up for the Spanish throne, against Felipe, Duke of Anjou, and if Joseph had still died as he did otl, would Leopold have renounced his rights to Spain in favour of his young brother Charles, and become Emperor Leopold II? Or would he have allowed Charles to become Holy Roman Emperor and continued the struggle for Spain?
 

Vitruvius

Donor
Yes to the first question. The latter probably depends on his personality and his relationship with Joseph. OTL Charles really really wanted the Spanish throne, at least by the end of the war. He kept Austria fighting France after the other allies made peace because he didn't want to give it up. But Leopold may not be so attached and may gladly give it up in favor of becoming Emperor. On the other hand if he doesn't get along with Joseph or for whatever reason his brother thinks it's best to keep him in Spain then maybe Joseph writes a will leaving Austria to Charles. Leopold probably gets screwed in the latter scenario, since it's unlikely he could outperform the allies OTL in Spain, ie Philip stays on the Spanish throne leaving only the scraps of Spanish Italy for Leopold. So it's less likely but possible. But maybe Leopold and Charles both have kids and we get two Habsburg lines into the 18th century, mirroring the French and Spanish Bourbons.
 
Yes to the first question. The latter probably depends on his personality and his relationship with Joseph. OTL Charles really really wanted the Spanish throne, at least by the end of the war. He kept Austria fighting France after the other allies made peace because he didn't want to give it up. But Leopold may not be so attached and may gladly give it up in favor of becoming Emperor. On the other hand if he doesn't get along with Joseph or for whatever reason his brother thinks it's best to keep him in Spain then maybe Joseph writes a will leaving Austria to Charles. Leopold probably gets screwed in the latter scenario, since it's unlikely he could outperform the allies OTL in Spain, ie Philip stays on the Spanish throne leaving only the scraps of Spanish Italy for Leopold. So it's less likely but possible. But maybe Leopold and Charles both have kids and we get two Habsburg lines into the 18th century, mirroring the French and Spanish Bourbons.
Intriguing so leopold senior would look to put his namesake on the Spanish thwrobe, as long as Joseph is alive, however the moment that Joseph dies everything depends on leopold
Joseph. I haven fhe feeling that if he abdicated his claim
In favour of Charles immediately that the allies might fight more favourably for him. There is also the question of who he marries
 

Vitruvius

Donor
The allies probably wouldn't care one way or the other. They wanted a Habsburg because they wanted to deny Philip the Spanish throne. So it doesn't matter which son gets it as long as he's not a Bourbon. Leopold would want to marry ASAP as begetting an heir secures his claim also he's in a race against Philip who married right away and had children early. But while he's a few years older than Charles there aren't many potential brides around. Maybe Elisabeth Farnese (a first cousin) but arranging it would be hard as the Farnese were IIRC pro-French for most of the time in question.
 
The allies probably wouldn't care one way or the other. They wanted a Habsburg because they wanted to deny Philip the Spanish throne. So it doesn't matter which son gets it as long as he's not a Bourbon. Leopold would want to marry ASAP as begetting an heir secures his claim also he's in a race against Philip who married right away and had children early. But while he's a few years older than Charles there aren't many potential brides around. Maybe Elisabeth Farnese (a first cousin) but arranging it would be hard as the Farnese were IIRC pro-French for most of the time in question.

Perhaps he could marry this lady
Countess Palatine Elisabeth Auguste Sofie of Neuburg. Or an aunt through his mother?
 
Perhaps he could marry this lady
Countess Palatine Elisabeth Auguste Sofie of Neuburg. Or an aunt through his mother?

As much as the Habsburgs LOVE marrying cousins, besides being heiress to her mom's lands in Lithuania, Elisabeth Auguste doesn't strike me as likely - esp considering her OTL track record with living sons. Since the POD is Leopold Josef not dying, Elisabeth could be male or stillborn or whatever.

Karl VI was engaged to a Portuguese infanta and cousin when he became candidate for king of Spain. Unfortunately the girl later died and he wed Elisabeth Christine of Brunswick instead. Seems likely that if Leopold's taking Karl's place as king of Spain, that he would be rather engaged to said infanta. Although - a word of caution, Pedro II's daughters were plain, if not ugly, and that was part of the reason for Francisca Josefa's match with the prince of Piemonte foundering.
 
As much as the Habsburgs LOVE marrying cousins, besides being heiress to her mom's lands in Lithuania, Elisabeth Auguste doesn't strike me as likely - esp considering her OTL track record with living sons. Since the POD is Leopold Josef not dying, Elisabeth could be male or stillborn or whatever.

Karl VI was engaged to a Portuguese infanta and cousin when he became candidate for king of Spain. Unfortunately the girl later died and he wed Elisabeth Christine of Brunswick instead. Seems likely that if Leopold's taking Karl's place as king of Spain, that he would be rather engaged to said infanta. Although - a word of caution, Pedro II's daughters were plain, if not ugly, and that was part of the reason for Francisca Josefa's match with the prince of Piemonte foundering.
Was that daughter Teresa Maria?
 

Vitruvius

Donor
Yeah, it was Teresa Maria. The match made sense as they were trying to get Portugal into the war on the allies' side. But she's on the younger side, born in 1696. So even if she had lived its not ideal between her age and being a first cousin.
 
Yeah, it was Teresa Maria. The match made sense as they were trying to get Portugal into the war on the allies' side. But she's on the younger side, born in 1696. So even if she had lived its not ideal between her age and being a first cousin.
This is very true, I imagine that she’d be considered, if there was a British princess around would they also be considered?
 
Perhaps he could marry this lady
Countess Palatine Elisabeth Auguste Sofie of Neuburg. Or an aunt through his mother?

Maybe not. There was some bad blood between the Neuburgs and the Habsburgs - originally the Empress Eleonore and her brother wanted Josef to marry an unspecified cousin (might be Elisabeth, but I would be thinking more one of Eleonore's youngest sisters), and Josef went against them and married Wilhelmine instead. Now, of course, that cousin might be married to Leopold instead, but it could just as easily lead to conflict between the Pfalz-Neuburgs (they only became Electors Palatine after the POD, so Karl II might live a smidge longer, if he leaves kids with a half-crippled wife is anyone's guess though) and the Habsburgs.

My favourite would be a Danish princess. Leopold I angled for Josef to wed Sofia Hedwig OTL, now Sofia might be a little too old for Leo, but she had a stillborn sister in 1683, who may/may not survive. Or her brother Vilhelm could just as easily be born Vilhelmine instead. The reason the wedding negotiations foundered was because Sofia refused to convert. Have her little sister be more pliable and bam! Danish-Imperial match.

Otherwise, Elisabeth Auguste's cousin, Maria Anna Karoline might make a better match. She's in theory the heiress to Saxe-Lauenburg (yes, I know Leopold signed away Anna Maria Franziska's inheritance), which is a sight better than the heiress to some lands in Lithuania. And she's fertile - she married at 26yo and still left two boys and a girl who survived infancy.
 

Vitruvius

Donor
Well, even if there was a British princess, and I'm not sure who that would be (a daughter of Anne? A daughter of the future George I?), religion would be a difficult if not impossible obstacle. That's what scuttled Charles' suit of Caroline of Ansbach.
 
Maybe not. There was some bad blood between the Neuburgs and the Habsburgs - originally the Empress Eleonore and her brother wanted Josef to marry an unspecified cousin (might be Elisabeth, but I would be thinking more one of Eleonore's youngest sisters), and Josef went against them and married Wilhelmine instead. Now, of course, that cousin might be married to Leopold instead, but it could just as easily lead to conflict between the Pfalz-Neuburgs (they only became Electors Palatine after the POD, so Karl II might live a smidge longer, if he leaves kids with a half-crippled wife is anyone's guess though) and the Habsburgs.

My favourite would be a Danish princess. Leopold I angled for Josef to wed Sofia Hedwig OTL, now Sofia might be a little too old for Leo, but she had a stillborn sister in 1683, who may/may not survive. Or her brother Vilhelm could just as easily be born Vilhelmine instead. The reason the wedding negotiations foundered was because Sofia refused to convert. Have her little sister be more pliable and bam! Danish-Imperial match.

Otherwise, Elisabeth Auguste's cousin, Maria Anna Karoline might make a better match. She's in theory the heiress to Saxe-Lauenburg (yes, I know Leopold signed away Anna Maria Franziska's inheritance), which is a sight better than the heiress to some lands in Lithuania. And she's fertile - she married at 26yo and still left two boys and a girl who survived infancy.
Ooh I hadn't thought it a Danish marriage, I quite like it. Having there be another girl for leopold to
Marry would be good. Also helps with relations with Britain as for this story anne would be regent for her brother
 
Top